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Posted: 1/24/2015 2:37:42 PM EDT
[#1]
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Yep. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A perfect example of how engineers aren't necessarily the smartest kid in the room like they think they are  In all fairness, real engineers view civil engineers as business students who couldn't find the correct class rooms and were too embarrassed at graduation to mention it. Yep. Are you a real P.E., or just a graduate engineer. If the former is not required, the latter, could be replaced by any hobo that had the "skillz to doos the jab". |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 2:42:02 PM EDT
[#2]
This is more architectural than engineering, but they are "building engineers". Back in the early 1990's I owned a computer business. I had quoted a complete computer system for a new public library being built. We went and did the rough wiring (Cat 3 cabling) when the building was being built. After the wall finishing, we put on all the faceplates and labeled the wiring. They had custom designed desks done by the architect installed. They called us to setup the new computers we had sold them.
When we got there, we almost choked.....The desks were all wall length desks with a kickboards. ALL of the Data and electrical outlets were covered up by the kickboards on the back of the screwed to the wall desks and cabinets. Now, this was NOT our problem, so we contacted the director of the Library. What do they do? Contact the architect? NO......They call the maintenance guy to take a jigsaw and cut holes in all the kickboards where outlets were. It was a nasty looking job, with some of the holes offset from the outlet so bad we had trouble plugging into them. I will never forget that one! |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 2:44:44 PM EDT
[#3]
I find its best not to argue with engineers. I install what ever they spec, exactly as its spec'd, and precisely the way its laid out in the prints. I make a lot more money making it work after they figure it doesn't work as designed, and I love that first meeting where they attempt to call us out of the carpet. I love that look they get when you ask them where we deviated from the submittals they approved that match there specs perfectly.
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Posted: 1/24/2015 2:45:39 PM EDT
[#4]
I've spent 13 years in the electrical field making engineers look like they knew what they were doing. I have two engineers that regularly call me to ask my opinion on projects; they are the good kind that I like working with. Some I have worked with will tell you you're a retard then use the idea you brought up in the project meeting and take all the credit. That piece of paper and stamp aren't worth much to the world if you're not gifted enough to use your brain and the opinions of those with field experience to arrive at the correct conclusion.
And yes, I know that customers are sometimes stupid and lack the capacity to understand how anything works or why they're project is expensive, and that engineers are useful and have a purpose. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 2:46:39 PM EDT
[#5]
Not sure why that design didn't work. This one seemed to work pretty well...
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Posted: 1/24/2015 2:47:02 PM EDT
[#6]
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That probably wasn't an engineering class...it showed common sense. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Someone was telling me about a university or similar institution with multiple buildings that instead of designing walk paths along with new structures would instead wait for the grass to grow and people to wear trails into it, building sidewalks and landscaping around where the paths were worn in. Not sure if it is true, but seems like a pretty smart idea to me. That probably wasn't an engineering class...it showed common sense. You're awful bitter toward us engineers..must suck to not be able to handle the course work or know we are a lot more respected than you 
But I'm not a REAL engineer yet, just a degreed idiot waiting 2 more years to take my PE. Also, its how funny how you're not a REAL engineer until you pass two pretty easy tests. They should just give you the title after 4 years of experience, the exams are that simple once you've done the course work. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 2:52:13 PM EDT
[#7]
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We have EXACTLY this problem where I work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This. Too many engineers are "ivory towerists" when it comes to actual building or maintainance. Just look at some car designs that are nearly impossible to service w/o taking the whole damn thing apart it seems. Engineers need to spend time in the field or the shop floor actually doing the jobs for which they design. Not just scuttling around being a gofer as an intern, or supervising from the shack or office, but actually get out there and do the actual building or machining. Nailed it. We have EXACTLY this problem where I work. Get management to pay me to go in the field and watch you work, I will gladly do it. The field is where I started, been there done that. Now days, the plans need to get out the door, otherwise I'm holding a project up. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 2:57:00 PM EDT
[#8]
Some seriously butt hurt engineers in this thread.
Txl |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 2:57:50 PM EDT
[#9]
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I find its best not to argue with engineers. I install what ever they spec, exactly as its spec'd, and precisely the way its laid out in the prints. I make a lot more money making it work after they figure it doesn't work as designed, and I love that first meeting where they attempt to call us out of the carpet. I love that look they get when you ask them where we deviated from the submittals they approved that match there specs perfectly. This is the correct approach, cheers to you 
If money out of their pocket doesn't teach them something, nothing will. At least they will go away if they don't self correct. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 3:10:11 PM EDT
[#10]
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University of South Florida according to the legend. Let the ants design the mound. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Someone was telling me about a university or similar institution with multiple buildings that instead of designing walk paths along with new structures would instead wait for the grass to grow and people to wear trails into it, building sidewalks and landscaping around where the paths were worn in. Not sure if it is true, but seems like a pretty smart idea to me. University of South Florida according to the legend. Let the ants design the mound. Interesting. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 3:12:17 PM EDT
[#11]
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I've spent 13 years in the electrical field making engineers look like they knew what they were doing. I have two engineers that regularly call me to ask my opinion on projects; they are the good kind that I like working with. Some I have worked with will tell you you're a retard then use the idea you brought up in the project meeting and take all the credit. That piece of paper and stamp aren't worth much to the world if you're not gifted enough to use your brain and the opinions of those with field experience to arrive at the correct conclusion. And yes, I know that customers are sometimes stupid and lack the capacity to understand how anything works or why they're project is expensive, and that engineers are useful and have a purpose. There are A-hole engineers that do this type of thing. Worked for one for a brief period. She refused to consult "field" people, I had to go around her back to do so. Credit, she wanted it. I just wanted to make sure it was done as best as I could do it. Some field ideas were completely retarded, others genius. Always gave credit to the super of who I got the info from for the ones I designed off from. There was one field guy that was genus, but his boss would never let it get build without and engineer approving, understandable from the liability standpoint. I'd have to sneak the guy my problem, he'd give me the solution, I'd sign off, away we went. Still gave credit after it was done. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 3:14:33 PM EDT
[#12]
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This is the correct approach, cheers to you
If money out of their pocket doesn't teach them something, nothing will. At least they will go away if they don't self correct. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I find its best not to argue with engineers. I install what ever they spec, exactly as its spec'd, and precisely the way its laid out in the prints. I make a lot more money making it work after they figure it doesn't work as designed, and I love that first meeting where they attempt to call us out of the carpet. I love that look they get when you ask them where we deviated from the submittals they approved that match there specs perfectly. This is the correct approach, cheers to you
If money out of their pocket doesn't teach them something, nothing will. At least they will go away if they don't self correct. That's pretty pathetic. 
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Posted: 1/24/2015 3:15:13 PM EDT
[#13]
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This is the correct approach, cheers to you
If money out of their pocket doesn't teach them something, nothing will. At least they will go away if they don't self correct. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I find its best not to argue with engineers. I install what ever they spec, exactly as its spec'd, and precisely the way its laid out in the prints. I make a lot more money making it work after they figure it doesn't work as designed, and I love that first meeting where they attempt to call us out of the carpet. I love that look they get when you ask them where we deviated from the submittals they approved that match there specs perfectly. This is the correct approach, cheers to you
If money out of their pocket doesn't teach them something, nothing will. At least they will go away if they don't self correct. Yeah, I know a few that need to go away that won't. One recent Georgia Tech graduate (3 years out) cost the city I currently live in $130k on undersized boilers and another $70k on project overruns. You can't force people to accept the truth sometimes. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 3:16:51 PM EDT
[#14]
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There are A-hole engineers that do this type of thing. Worked for one for a brief period. She refused to consult "field" people, I had to go around her back to do so. Credit, she wanted it. I just wanted to make sure it was done as best as I could do it. Some field ideas were completely retarded, others genius. Always gave credit to the super of who I got the info from for the ones I designed off from. There was one field guy that was genus, but his boss would never let it get build without and engineer approving, understandable from the liability standpoint. I'd have to sneak the guy my problem, he'd give me the solution, I'd sign off, away we went. Still gave credit after it was done. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've spent 13 years in the electrical field making engineers look like they knew what they were doing. I have two engineers that regularly call me to ask my opinion on projects; they are the good kind that I like working with. Some I have worked with will tell you you're a retard then use the idea you brought up in the project meeting and take all the credit. That piece of paper and stamp aren't worth much to the world if you're not gifted enough to use your brain and the opinions of those with field experience to arrive at the correct conclusion. And yes, I know that customers are sometimes stupid and lack the capacity to understand how anything works or why they're project is expensive, and that engineers are useful and have a purpose. There are A-hole engineers that do this type of thing. Worked for one for a brief period. She refused to consult "field" people, I had to go around her back to do so. Credit, she wanted it. I just wanted to make sure it was done as best as I could do it. Some field ideas were completely retarded, others genius. Always gave credit to the super of who I got the info from for the ones I designed off from. There was one field guy that was genus, but his boss would never let it get build without and engineer approving, understandable from the liability standpoint. I'd have to sneak the guy my problem, he'd give me the solution, I'd sign off, away we went. Still gave credit after it was done. You're one of the good ones sir. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 3:17:47 PM EDT
[#15]
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Aren't some of the streets in some the older cities like Boston just paved over cow paths or something? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Someone was telling me about a university or similar institution with multiple buildings that instead of designing walk paths along with new structures would instead wait for the grass to grow and people to wear trails into it, building sidewalks and landscaping around where the paths were worn in. Not sure if it is true, but seems like a pretty smart idea to me. Aren't some of the streets in some the older cities like Boston just paved over cow paths or something? From a book about the history of my county: The buffaloes traveled from that lick to a similar one on the island in the Elk river at the mouth of Granny's creek. They had worn down a road between these two points which the early settlers said was superior to many of the county roads...The first county road that was made followed this trail. The buffaloes had for centuries, and in countless numbers, made daily pilgrimages during the summer months to these saline springs. I imagine it's much the same for many areas of the United State. The road that this passage speaks of is now part of US Route 19, which runs from Lake Erie all the way down to Tampa. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 3:18:49 PM EDT
[#16]
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Lol at how GD hates engineers. Pathetic. 
along with SOF personnel, engineers are pretty much the universally acknowledged glorious master race of GD. people kowtow to them. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 3:21:35 PM EDT
[#17]
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Sure, overlook the Golden Gate Bridge, the Empire State Building, the Hoover Dam, the Interstate Hwy system, clean drinking water, on and on... and use that piss ant little crosswalk gate as the example that defines engineers. I think I found an engineer. 
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Posted: 1/24/2015 3:27:11 PM EDT
[#18]
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That's pretty pathetic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I find its best not to argue with engineers. I install what ever they spec, exactly as its spec'd, and precisely the way its laid out in the prints. I make a lot more money making it work after they figure it doesn't work as designed, and I love that first meeting where they attempt to call us out of the carpet. I love that look they get when you ask them where we deviated from the submittals they approved that match there specs perfectly. This is the correct approach, cheers to you
If money out of their pocket doesn't teach them something, nothing will. At least they will go away if they don't self correct. That's pretty pathetic. Could you explain your position at least minimally enough to let people know what you have issue with. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 3:33:01 PM EDT
[#19]
As with most things in life there are good and bad engineers. I have worked with/managed both for quite some time. The good ones learned how to work with tolerances/constraints in mfg. the product. the result was a product that conformed to design intent and functioned well. Wasn't a smart/dumb thing.
The bad ones design pcs of shit and tell everyone "just get it made because I am the engineer". Both sides had their own smart and dumb people. It is the engineers that think they are smarter than everyone else and design crap that are the problem. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 3:35:48 PM EDT
[#20]
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Sure, overlook the Golden Gate Bridge, the Empire State Building, the Hoover Dam, the Interstate Hwy system, clean drinking water, on and on... and use that piss ant little crosswalk gate as the example that defines engineers. Where's the video of the Tacoma Narrows bridge.
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Posted: 1/24/2015 3:36:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A perfect example of how engineers aren't necessarily the smartest kid in the room like they think they are |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 3:39:05 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I pray I never meet a Traffic Engineer. I don't want to go to prison....... here is their secret to road design!   |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 3:50:40 PM EDT
[#23]
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There are A-hole engineers that do this type of thing. Worked for one for a brief period. She refused to consult "field" people, I had to go around her back to do so. Credit, she wanted it. I just wanted to make sure it was done as best as I could do it. Some field ideas were completely retarded, others genius. Always gave credit to the super of who I got the info from for the ones I designed off from. There was one field guy that was genus, but his boss would never let it get build without and engineer approving, understandable from the liability standpoint. I'd have to sneak the guy my problem, he'd give me the solution, I'd sign off, away we went. Still gave credit after it was done. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've spent 13 years in the electrical field making engineers look like they knew what they were doing. I have two engineers that regularly call me to ask my opinion on projects; they are the good kind that I like working with. Some I have worked with will tell you you're a retard then use the idea you brought up in the project meeting and take all the credit. That piece of paper and stamp aren't worth much to the world if you're not gifted enough to use your brain and the opinions of those with field experience to arrive at the correct conclusion. And yes, I know that customers are sometimes stupid and lack the capacity to understand how anything works or why they're project is expensive, and that engineers are useful and have a purpose. There are A-hole engineers that do this type of thing. Worked for one for a brief period. She refused to consult "field" people, I had to go around her back to do so. Credit, she wanted it. I just wanted to make sure it was done as best as I could do it. Some field ideas were completely retarded, others genius. Always gave credit to the super of who I got the info from for the ones I designed off from. There was one field guy that was genus, but his boss would never let it get build without and engineer approving, understandable from the liability standpoint. I'd have to sneak the guy my problem, he'd give me the solution, I'd sign off, away we went. Still gave credit after it was done. It's been my dads observation that male architects and female engineers are more difficult than male engineers and female architects. The latter will take his advice most of the time. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 3:51:15 PM EDT
[#24]
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That's pretty pathetic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I find its best not to argue with engineers. I install what ever they spec, exactly as its spec'd, and precisely the way its laid out in the prints. I make a lot more money making it work after they figure it doesn't work as designed, and I love that first meeting where they attempt to call us out of the carpet. I love that look they get when you ask them where we deviated from the submittals they approved that match there specs perfectly. This is the correct approach, cheers to you
If money out of their pocket doesn't teach them something, nothing will. At least they will go away if they don't self correct. That's pretty pathetic. I told an architect one time that we were good at what we do and we'd build exactly what they drew. "Oh Go no!" was her reply. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 4:01:02 PM EDT
[#25]
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As with most things in life there are good and bad engineers. I have worked with/managed both for quite some time. The good ones learned how to work with tolerances/constraints in mfg. the product. the result was a product that conformed to design intent and functioned well. Wasn't a smart/dumb thing. The bad ones design pcs of shit and tell everyone "just get it made because I am the engineer". Both sides had their own smart and dumb people. It is the engineers that think they are smarter than everyone else and design crap that are the problem. Had a funny meeting with some customers once. We were trying to ascertain the radial load on our product from the group of engineers. Some young, very smart and very talented engineers spent the better part of 10 minutes walking us through their calculations including charts/graphs and video. Soon they were disagreeing with each other about this bit and the other. We kept trying to gently point out that we didn't need to put a man on the moon but rather have an idea whether it was 10lbs versus 100lbs. In other words, while we needed an honest estimate of the load we didn't need a doctoral dissertation including factoring in spin drift and atomic particle deceleration. The part in question was not critical in any way and the time they were investing into the debate was starting to border on silliness. Finally, after a very long time of discussion the older, gray haired boss-guy in the back of the room looked up from whatever else it was he was doing and said, "52 pounds!" before going back to not paying attention. He had the experience to grasp when a full blown calculation down to the inth degree was needed and when an accurate estimate would suffice. I have a suspicion the younger engineers would have gone on for another 87 minutes had the boss man not chimed in. Eventually they would have come to an agreement that the actual load was 53.1 pounds. Factually they would have been correct but practically they would have wasted a lot of company time for no appreciable gain. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 4:03:33 PM EDT
[#26]
As an engineer, I can honestly say that I don't like 99.9% of the engineers I have met.
Almost to a man they are nowhere near as smart, creative, or as talented as they think they are. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 4:05:35 PM EDT
[#27]
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Had a funny meeting with some customers once. We were trying to ascertain the radial load on our product from the group of engineers. Some young, very smart and very talented engineers spent the better part of 10 minutes walking us through their calculations including charts/graphs and video. Soon they were disagreeing with each other about this bit and the other. We kept trying to gently point out that we didn't need to put a man on the moon but rather have an idea whether it was 10lbs versus 100lbs. In other words, while we needed an honest estimate of the load we didn't need a doctoral dissertation including factoring in spin drift and atomic particle deceleration. The part in question was not critical in any way and the time they were investing into the debate was starting to border on silliness. Finally, after a very long time of discussion the older, gray haired boss-guy in the back of the room looked up from whatever else it was he was doing and said, "52 pounds!" before going back to not paying attention. Is that 52 lbs? Or 52.35987625 lbs?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As with most things in life there are good and bad engineers. I have worked with/managed both for quite some time. The good ones learned how to work with tolerances/constraints in mfg. the product. the result was a product that conformed to design intent and functioned well. Wasn't a smart/dumb thing. The bad ones design pcs of shit and tell everyone "just get it made because I am the engineer". Both sides had their own smart and dumb people. It is the engineers that think they are smarter than everyone else and design crap that are the problem. Had a funny meeting with some customers once. We were trying to ascertain the radial load on our product from the group of engineers. Some young, very smart and very talented engineers spent the better part of 10 minutes walking us through their calculations including charts/graphs and video. Soon they were disagreeing with each other about this bit and the other. We kept trying to gently point out that we didn't need to put a man on the moon but rather have an idea whether it was 10lbs versus 100lbs. In other words, while we needed an honest estimate of the load we didn't need a doctoral dissertation including factoring in spin drift and atomic particle deceleration. The part in question was not critical in any way and the time they were investing into the debate was starting to border on silliness. Finally, after a very long time of discussion the older, gray haired boss-guy in the back of the room looked up from whatever else it was he was doing and said, "52 pounds!" before going back to not paying attention. Is that 52 lbs? Or 52.35987625 lbs?
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Posted: 1/24/2015 4:07:31 PM EDT
[#28]
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along with SOF personnel, engineers are pretty much the universally acknowledged glorious master race of GD. people kowtow to them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lol at how GD hates engineers. Pathetic.
along with SOF personnel, engineers are pretty much the universally acknowledged glorious master race of GD. people kowtow to them. GD is read selectively. I'm always amused at what people think is the general "vibe" of the place, because it's so much different than the vibe I'm getting. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 4:23:27 PM EDT
[#29]
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I told an architect one time that we were good at what we do and we'd build exactly what they drew. "Oh Go no!" was her reply. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I find its best not to argue with engineers. I install what ever they spec, exactly as its spec'd, and precisely the way its laid out in the prints. I make a lot more money making it work after they figure it doesn't work as designed, and I love that first meeting where they attempt to call us out of the carpet. I love that look they get when you ask them where we deviated from the submittals they approved that match there specs perfectly. This is the correct approach, cheers to you
If money out of their pocket doesn't teach them something, nothing will. At least they will go away if they don't self correct. That's pretty pathetic. I told an architect one time that we were good at what we do and we'd build exactly what they drew. "Oh Go no!" was her reply. If true, that is fucking classic. I come across a couple of engineers that say "I just want the plans approved". I've never really thought about turning someone into the board, but I have occasionally thought that some are practicing out of there expertise. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 4:42:08 PM EDT
[#30]
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Could you explain your position at least minimally enough to let people know what you have issue with. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I find its best not to argue with engineers. I install what ever they spec, exactly as its spec'd, and precisely the way its laid out in the prints. I make a lot more money making it work after they figure it doesn't work as designed, and I love that first meeting where they attempt to call us out of the carpet. I love that look they get when you ask them where we deviated from the submittals they approved that match there specs perfectly. This is the correct approach, cheers to you
If money out of their pocket doesn't teach them something, nothing will. At least they will go away if they don't self correct. That's pretty pathetic. Could you explain your position at least minimally enough to let people know what you have issue with. My issue is with the fact that you'd knowingly build something that won't work, will end up costing someone a bunch of money, and then brag about it rather than being proactive and trying to solve the problem. That's lazy, and in my opinion, unethical. If I'm understanding what harleyrkc wrote, he will knowingly build something wrong because he makes more money doing that rather than pointing out mistakes and making sure it gets built correctly the first time. That's like an auto mechanic who checks a customer's oil, sees that it's low, then doesn't fix it or say anything to the customer because he knows he'll get paid to replace an engine. I get that some of you have worked with stubborn engineers who refuse to listen to experienced mechanics/builders/whatever - I've been on both sides of that table. I get that there's just no telling some people. However, you're painting with a mile-wide brush to simply adopt the policy of always intentionally building flawed designs rather than at least making an attempt to correct them. Like I said, that's pathetic. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 4:42:11 PM EDT
[#31]
I dont see a problem with that except that the u shaped entrance does not accommodate bikes. That is just a service vehicle entrance, so dumbasses dont drive down the path. It obviously is in response to that situation or something similar. Hell, maybe its a path that doesn't allow bikes, like some sort of private path and the bikes are breaking the law. Thinks ng about it, I doubt that was even stamped by an engineer, too simple. I dont see how people can talk smack about engineers when 99.99% of everything you touch, own, see, or ever heard of is touched by an engineer in some way. I'm getting my masters at sdsmt right now BTW.
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Posted: 1/24/2015 4:45:01 PM EDT
[#32]
I spent 30 years as a civil engineer and trained dozens of young engineers. the one thing I tried to impress them with was that when the dirt or utility contractor called and said that something didn't look right. they stopped what they were doing and go talk to him and see what he was telling them.
Many times the contractor was misinterpreting the plans, but often the plans were wrong and needed something fixed. The engineers were told to never simply tell the contractor to just build it like I designed. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 4:45:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont see a problem with that except that the u shaped entrance does not accommodate bikes. That is just a service vehicle entrance, so dumbasses dont drive down the path. It obviously is in response to that situation or something similar. Hell, maybe its a path that doesn't allow bikes, like some sort of private path and the bikes are breaking the law. Thinks ng about it, I doubt that was even stamped by an engineer, too simple. I dont see how people can talk smack about engineers when 99.99% of everything you touch, own, see, or ever heard of is touched by an engineer in some way. I'm getting my masters at sdsmt right now BTW. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 4:57:09 PM EDT
[#34]
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You're awful bitter toward us engineers..must suck to not be able to handle the course work or know we are a lot more respected than you
But I'm not a REAL engineer yet, just a degreed idiot waiting 2 more years to take my PE. Also, its how funny how you're not a REAL engineer until you pass two pretty easy tests. They should just give you the title after 4 years of experience, the exams are that simple once you've done the course work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Someone was telling me about a university or similar institution with multiple buildings that instead of designing walk paths along with new structures would instead wait for the grass to grow and people to wear trails into it, building sidewalks and landscaping around where the paths were worn in. Not sure if it is true, but seems like a pretty smart idea to me. That probably wasn't an engineering class...it showed common sense. You're awful bitter toward us engineers..must suck to not be able to handle the course work or know we are a lot more respected than you
But I'm not a REAL engineer yet, just a degreed idiot waiting 2 more years to take my PE. Also, its how funny how you're not a REAL engineer until you pass two pretty easy tests. They should just give you the title after 4 years of experience, the exams are that simple once you've done the course work. Pretty easy - except for that less than 50% pass rate, eh. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 5:02:55 PM EDT
[#35]
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You're awful bitter toward us engineers..must suck to not be able to handle the course work or know we are a lot more respected than you
But I'm not a REAL engineer yet, just a degreed idiot waiting 2 more years to take my PE. Also, its how funny how you're not a REAL engineer until you pass two pretty easy tests. They should just give you the title after 4 years of experience, the exams are that simple once you've done the course work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Someone was telling me about a university or similar institution with multiple buildings that instead of designing walk paths along with new structures would instead wait for the grass to grow and people to wear trails into it, building sidewalks and landscaping around where the paths were worn in. Not sure if it is true, but seems like a pretty smart idea to me. That probably wasn't an engineering class...it showed common sense. You're awful bitter toward us engineers..must suck to not be able to handle the course work or know we are a lot more respected than you
But I'm not a REAL engineer yet, just a degreed idiot waiting 2 more years to take my PE. Also, its how funny how you're not a REAL engineer until you pass two pretty easy tests. They should just give you the title after 4 years of experience, the exams are that simple once you've done the course work. Nah, I'm not bitter towards all engineers...just the ones that think just because they are an engineer it makes them smarter than everyone else. I work with several of those types and quite frankly am tired of watching them waste company time, money, and resources on a daily basis thanks to their lack of common sense and failure to realize that non-engineers with years of experience actually do know what they are talking about. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 5:07:03 PM EDT
[#36]
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Pretty easy - except for that less than 50% pass rate, eh. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Someone was telling me about a university or similar institution with multiple buildings that instead of designing walk paths along with new structures would instead wait for the grass to grow and people to wear trails into it, building sidewalks and landscaping around where the paths were worn in. Not sure if it is true, but seems like a pretty smart idea to me. That probably wasn't an engineering class...it showed common sense. You're awful bitter toward us engineers..must suck to not be able to handle the course work or know we are a lot more respected than you
But I'm not a REAL engineer yet, just a degreed idiot waiting 2 more years to take my PE. Also, its how funny how you're not a REAL engineer until you pass two pretty easy tests. They should just give you the title after 4 years of experience, the exams are that simple once you've done the course work. Pretty easy - except for that less than 50% pass rate, eh. I won't argue there. Blows my mind. I don't know how you can make it through the course work, and then fail that test. I just don't. ETA: I'm referring to the FE. I haven't taken the PE yet, but from what I've heard from people who have the practice tests I've taken; it's about as easy. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 5:23:53 PM EDT
[#37]
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University of South Florida according to the legend. Let the ants design the mound. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Someone was telling me about a university or similar institution with multiple buildings that instead of designing walk paths along with new structures would instead wait for the grass to grow and people to wear trails into it, building sidewalks and landscaping around where the paths were worn in. Not sure if it is true, but seems like a pretty smart idea to me. University of South Florida according to the legend. Let the ants design the mound. I was told that by a FL Tech University (now UCF) engineering professor back in the late 70's. His discussion on the future overwhelming power of gov't intrusion into our privacy via electronics, computers etc. was also pretty right on as well. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 5:41:14 PM EDT
[#38]
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The best engineers are capable of meeting all design requirements, cost, timeline, service life, safety factors, serviceability, etc....is it eady? Hell no! Are compromises made...absolutely! But that's your job, if it was easy everybody would be doing it. I design machines, fixtures, progressive stamping tools and pretty much whatever else my business gets paid to mfg. I have total accountability for my designs, if the machinist can't machine it they come to me, if the tool makers can't hit a clearance or have serviceability problems they come to me, costs and service life is on me. If a die explodes on try out because I used the wrong materials somewhere its on me. When you are accountable for all of the outcomes, you find a way to make it all work. Bad engineers are a management failure...just like lazy union workers. The buck stops with management. I agree with this totally. Reminds me of the early days of the Space Station program. A bunch of Level II NASA Human Factors engineers were totally out of control. At one time, the largest ratchet that was planned for Space Station was a 1/4" ratchet with about a 4" handle on it, that was it. That didn't last long once the astronauts that actually had to use tools in space found out about it. Another one was rounded corners. We had one subcontractor (AiResearch now Honeywell) make an aluminum 2" cube illustrating the lunacy of HF requirements on cost and manufacturing time. One corner was as machined i.e. sharp as heck (i.e. a clear safety hazard). One corner was per the ridiculous HF rounding requirements, the others were various other manufacturing options that met the intent of the rounding requirement (i.e. it didn't pose a safety hazard to the on-orbit crew). One corner was just cut off, others were rounded off in various ways. The bottom line: to make it per the existing HF requirements cost over 10X what the other options cost. This cube went up to Level II just around the time that NASA reorganized the Space Station program, got rid of the 1200 worthless Level II bunch and made Boeing the prime contractor. A lot of HF requirement got changed in the next two years during the endless "restructuring" of the program. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 5:41:57 PM EDT
[#39]
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That's pretty pathetic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I find its best not to argue with engineers. I install what ever they spec, exactly as its spec'd, and precisely the way its laid out in the prints. I make a lot more money making it work after they figure it doesn't work as designed, and I love that first meeting where they attempt to call us out of the carpet. I love that look they get when you ask them where we deviated from the submittals they approved that match there specs perfectly. This is the correct approach, cheers to you
If money out of their pocket doesn't teach them something, nothing will. At least they will go away if they don't self correct. That's pretty pathetic. Very pathetic All the work I do is on city - county - and state projects If somebody screws up its the tax payer that gets to pay for me building it twice ... I dont like that ... besides I have better things to do than build shit twice to prove a point. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 5:46:40 PM EDT
[#40]
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You lost me at the end. There are bad engineers that are just bad engineers. What does management have to do with it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The best engineers are capable of meeting all design requirements, cost, timeline, service life, safety factors, serviceability, etc....is it eady? Hell no! Are compromises made...absolutely! But that's your job, if it was easy everybody would be doing it. I design machines, fixtures, progressive stamping tools and pretty much whatever else my business gets paid to mfg. I have total accountability for my designs, if the machinist can't machine it they come to me, if the tool makers can't hit a clearance or have serviceability problems they come to me, costs and service life is on me. If a die explodes on try out because I used the wrong materials somewhere its on me. When you are accountable for all of the outcomes, you find a way to make it all work. Bad engineers are a management failure...just like lazy union workers. The buck stops with management. You lost me at the end. There are bad engineers that are just bad engineers. What does management have to do with it? Management should have corrected or fired the "bad" employee |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 5:54:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can't speak for that poster but I *think* what he is getting at is that management level can impact a book smart engineer who consistently designs with impossible to manufacture, over toleranced parts, highly custom parts that are expensive and have crazy long lead times. They can guide the engineer back towards practical and cost effective solutions instead of letting them run wild with wacky designs just for the sake of being wacky. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The best engineers are capable of meeting all design requirements, cost, timeline, service life, safety factors, serviceability, etc....is it eady? Hell no! Are compromises made...absolutely! But that's your job, if it was easy everybody would be doing it. I design machines, fixtures, progressive stamping tools and pretty much whatever else my business gets paid to mfg. I have total accountability for my designs, if the machinist can't machine it they come to me, if the tool makers can't hit a clearance or have serviceability problems they come to me, costs and service life is on me. If a die explodes on try out because I used the wrong materials somewhere its on me. When you are accountable for all of the outcomes, you find a way to make it all work. Bad engineers are a management failure...just like lazy union workers. The buck stops with management. You lost me at the end. There are bad engineers that are just bad engineers. What does management have to do with it? I can't speak for that poster but I *think* what he is getting at is that management level can impact a book smart engineer who consistently designs with impossible to manufacture, over toleranced parts, highly custom parts that are expensive and have crazy long lead times. They can guide the engineer back towards practical and cost effective solutions instead of letting them run wild with wacky designs just for the sake of being wacky. Management didn't address this so many very over built, low margin tools were made
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Posted: 1/24/2015 5:57:53 PM EDT
[#42]
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I won't argue there. Blows my mind. I don't know how you can make it through the course work, and then fail that test. I just don't. ETA: I'm referring to the FE. I haven't taken the PE yet, but from what I've heard from people who have the practice tests I've taken; it's about as easy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Someone was telling me about a university or similar institution with multiple buildings that instead of designing walk paths along with new structures would instead wait for the grass to grow and people to wear trails into it, building sidewalks and landscaping around where the paths were worn in. Not sure if it is true, but seems like a pretty smart idea to me. That probably wasn't an engineering class...it showed common sense. You're awful bitter toward us engineers..must suck to not be able to handle the course work or know we are a lot more respected than you
But I'm not a REAL engineer yet, just a degreed idiot waiting 2 more years to take my PE. Also, its how funny how you're not a REAL engineer until you pass two pretty easy tests. They should just give you the title after 4 years of experience, the exams are that simple once you've done the course work. Pretty easy - except for that less than 50% pass rate, eh. I won't argue there. Blows my mind. I don't know how you can make it through the course work, and then fail that test. I just don't. ETA: I'm referring to the FE. I haven't taken the PE yet, but from what I've heard from people who have the practice tests I've taken; it's about as easy. Outside of civil engineering or some specific consulting, I have never heard anyone care whether or not an engineer has their PE. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 5:59:32 PM EDT
[#43]
Engineering threads in GD are always rife with retardation.
Still, I think the one that takes the retard cake was the poster in a previous thread who said that an electrician could design everything an electrical engineer could. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 6:03:50 PM EDT
[#44]
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My issue is with the fact that you'd knowingly build something that won't work, will end up costing someone a bunch of money, and then brag about it rather than being proactive and trying to solve the problem. That's lazy, and in my opinion, unethical. If I'm understanding what harleyrkc wrote, he will knowingly build something wrong because he makes more money doing that rather than pointing out mistakes and making sure it gets built correctly the first time. That's like an auto mechanic who checks a customer's oil, sees that it's low, then doesn't fix it or say anything to the customer because he knows he'll get paid to replace an engine. I get that some of you have worked with stubborn engineers who refuse to listen to experienced mechanics/builders/whatever. I get that there's just no telling some people - I've been on both sides of that table. However, you're painting with a mile-wide brush to simply adopt the policy of always intentionally building flawed designs rather than at least making an attempt to correct them. Like I said, that's pathetic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I find its best not to argue with engineers. I install what ever they spec, exactly as its spec'd, and precisely the way its laid out in the prints. I make a lot more money making it work after they figure it doesn't work as designed, and I love that first meeting where they attempt to call us out of the carpet. I love that look they get when you ask them where we deviated from the submittals they approved that match there specs perfectly. This is the correct approach, cheers to you
If money out of their pocket doesn't teach them something, nothing will. At least they will go away if they don't self correct. That's pretty pathetic. Could you explain your position at least minimally enough to let people know what you have issue with. My issue is with the fact that you'd knowingly build something that won't work, will end up costing someone a bunch of money, and then brag about it rather than being proactive and trying to solve the problem. That's lazy, and in my opinion, unethical. If I'm understanding what harleyrkc wrote, he will knowingly build something wrong because he makes more money doing that rather than pointing out mistakes and making sure it gets built correctly the first time. That's like an auto mechanic who checks a customer's oil, sees that it's low, then doesn't fix it or say anything to the customer because he knows he'll get paid to replace an engine. I get that some of you have worked with stubborn engineers who refuse to listen to experienced mechanics/builders/whatever. I get that there's just no telling some people - I've been on both sides of that table. However, you're painting with a mile-wide brush to simply adopt the policy of always intentionally building flawed designs rather than at least making an attempt to correct them. Like I said, that's pathetic. In an ideal world yes. In a world where you can get ahead by stepping outside your paid area of expertise, yes (if you know what you're talking about). In the real world, designers are paid to design, fabricators are paid to fabricate, laborers are paid to labor. Want to step up, step up, but don't expect someone making a laborers wage to do the designers job. I am am an engineer. If I fuck up, that's on me. If I'm good enough friends with anybody else in the line that tips me off to said fuck up, I'll fix it (rare chance given the process). If I mess up enough, I'll be out of the game. Not pathetic, it's reality. If you want to step up and alert, your "rank" will increase, but not pathetic if you don't. I've seen it again and again, "just do what the plans said". Good on you if you think you know better, but deviate from them, all the blame will be on you. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 6:04:13 PM EDT
[#45]
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You wouldn't have to worry about going to prison, you'd end up in a body bag if you fucked with my fiance. Its always funny hearing from people who have no idea what the fuck they are talking about implying that "engineers are stupid". Its like listening to children talk about who's dad can beat up your dad. You know they are just talking out of their asses, making shit up as they go along, pretending to have a clue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I pray I never meet a Traffic Engineer. I don't want to go to prison....... Its always funny hearing from people who have no idea what the fuck they are talking about implying that "engineers are stupid". Its like listening to children talk about who's dad can beat up your dad. You know they are just talking out of their asses, making shit up as they go along, pretending to have a clue. My post is a sarcastic expression of my frustration with traffic patterns whose purpose eludes the grasp of me, and every other intelligent person I've ever met. Nowhere did I State that Engineers are stupid, but thanks for quoting me and the refuting other peoples posts. Since My Father and Brother are both engineers, I think I'm well acquainted with how they think. And I doubt I would end up in a body bag, but thanks for caring.
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Posted: 1/24/2015 6:07:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Outside of civil engineering or some specific consulting, I have never heard anyone care whether or not an engineer has their PE. If one works in an industry that is heavy with industry exemption then you don't run into a lot of PE's. This also means that new engineers out of college going into those industries won't end up getting their PE's very often because they would have to leave their job to find one where enough PE's work to sign off for their final exam. I'd like to persue my PE, but I'd take a hefty pay cut to go to an employer that had enough PE's on staff to supervise and sign off on my paperwork. (Four required...) |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 6:13:40 PM EDT
[#47]
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GD is read selectively. I'm always amused at what people think is the general "vibe" of the place, because it's so much different than the vibe I'm getting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lol at how GD hates engineers. Pathetic.
along with SOF personnel, engineers are pretty much the universally acknowledged glorious master race of GD. people kowtow to them. GD is read selectively. I'm always amused at what people think is the general "vibe" of the place, because it's so much different than the vibe I'm getting. That's because most people project their own confirmation bias into gd.
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Posted: 1/24/2015 6:21:47 PM EDT
[#48]
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I spent 30 years as a civil engineer and trained dozens of young engineers. the one thing I tried to impress them with was that when the dirt or utility contractor called and said that something didn't look right. they stopped what they were doing and go talk to him and see what he was telling them. Many times the contractor was misinterpreting the plans, but often the plans were wrong and needed something fixed. The engineers were told to never simply tell the contractor to just build it like I designed. You may be right. When I was a field man/inspector, saw one engineer shown the door after a telling me to proceed as designed, after multiple "something doesn't look right" notifications. Then again, I see some with 40 yrs experience engineers that are confused with today's requirements. We all have a job to do and should not expect someone else to push the cart for us. Man down the line wants to step up, good for him. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 6:34:53 PM EDT
[#49]
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*snip* In an ideal world yes. In a world where you can get ahead by stepping outside your paid area of expertise, yes (if you know what you're talking about). In the real world, designers are paid to design, fabricators are paid to fabricate, laborers are paid to labor. Want to step up, step up, but don't expect someone making a laborers wage to do the designers job. I am am an engineer. If I fuck up, that's on me. If I'm good enough friends with anybody else in the line that tips me off to said fuck up, I'll fix it (rare chance given the process). If I mess up enough, I'll be out of the game. Not pathetic, it's reality. If you want to step up and alert, your "rank" will increase, but not pathetic if you don't. I've seen it again and again, "just do what the plans said". Good on you if you think you know better, but deviate from them, all the blame will be on you. Wow you're jaded... I'm not suggesting that anyone deviate from plans without talking to who drew them or for a laborer to do the designer's job. Rather, what I am suggesting is a scenario in which a technician/mechanic sees a problem with a drawing and goes to the engineer with "Hey, take a look at this, I'm not sure it will work and this is why. Maybe we could do this instead. What do you think?" It might work, it might not, but at least there was an attempt made to correct the mistake. I personally have made a small error with a drawing and had a foreman catch the mistake before steel got cut. That meant that the mistake got corrected and the project wasn't delayed, the mechanics didn't have to work over the weekend to fix the mistake, and the company's money didn't get wasted. I've also had contracted mechanics do shitty work and try to hide it from me because they weren't willing to understand why certain things needed to be done a certain way. Instead, I was just some dumb college boy who don't know nuthin about industrial construction. They did not complete the project and were not the crew that came back to do the rework and finish the project. I've worked in the real world, both as an engineer and a technician. It's all about opening a dialogue and communicating, for both sides. Everywhere I've ever worked, communication and cooperation between engineering and the floor has been emphasized. Wherever it is you work sounds like it has a terrible culture. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 6:38:42 PM EDT
[#50]
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Pretty easy - except for that less than 50% pass rate, eh. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Someone was telling me about a university or similar institution with multiple buildings that instead of designing walk paths along with new structures would instead wait for the grass to grow and people to wear trails into it, building sidewalks and landscaping around where the paths were worn in. Not sure if it is true, but seems like a pretty smart idea to me. That probably wasn't an engineering class...it showed common sense. You're awful bitter toward us engineers..must suck to not be able to handle the course work or know we are a lot more respected than you
But I'm not a REAL engineer yet, just a degreed idiot waiting 2 more years to take my PE. Also, its how funny how you're not a REAL engineer until you pass two pretty easy tests. They should just give you the title after 4 years of experience, the exams are that simple once you've done the course work. Pretty easy - except for that less than 50% pass rate, eh. Good luck and study all you can. I knew one guy that failed three times in a row with a 69, another that failed four in a row, they make you take a year off in my state, then got it done on his fifth. My brother took it twice, me once. Each of us (brother and me) studied the same cumulative hours and passed with the exact same average grade. (call me dumb, but I studied a lot) There's a reason some have opinions and others have the credentials (presumably said from an ivory tower). |
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