I'm partial to this example:  Martyr Photina/St Svetlana

I would offer another famous case, that of the Souliote women, who when sorrounded by enemies, threw their children over a steep cliff first and quickly followed them over dancing hand in hand as they went over the cliff, rather than endure the fate of captured women throughout history.

 

 

Made me want to run out and get a stock hawk.

as stated above it was her way of saying FUCK OFF!!!!!

besides, you're talking about a God who essentially sent his Son to earth to commit suicide, didn't he?

Yeah, I'm not sure it it's an attempt to be witty, but there's nothing admirable about submitting to someone you're convinced hates you and seeks to humiliate you.

She is SO FUCKING HOT, YES!!  Was she also the princess' assistant in Braveheart?  Sure looked like her...

And I swear, GD gets gayer by the fucking second.  I am going to start a thread, with a poll, asking if there should be a separate gay forum, so gays can go play with each other over in that gay forum..."not that there's anything wrong with that."

This

I'd be interested in scholarly citations that support this. All of it. Smallpox acts fast. IMO, no one is getting from that part of MI by canoe and by foot to the P area of WI without succumbing first.


 

Whoa.

Very much agree.

Nope, a different woman. A French actress named Jeanne Marine.


Johdi May hasn't been in many films I've seen lately, but she was in the WW2 film, 'Defiance'. She was unrecognizable as the pregnant girl who was afraid of being found out.

THANK-YOU!!! If I was Alice, I'd have taken Magua's ass over the side with me.

I quite agree. He still had a knife in his right hand.

no, he was under orders to take her as a wife for his tribe and to breed a bloodline of mixed breeds. extremely common as well as extremely important to intertribal and international relations much like the royals of Europe.

every day.. we find out more fagginess from our members who seem to have never touched a live woman before.

Doesn't matter how many times I watch that movie, that end sequence  always make me tear up.

Just watched the movie last night and Magua promises no less than 3 times to kill the girls.

The last time is right before he cut the heart out of Col. Monroe.

In the scene he clearly intends to murder her, just like her father and Uncas.

Under orders?  You mean from the chief that he just rejected and said, "I spit on you," while abandoning the local tribe?  Might want to reevaluate that perspective.

I rost!

he was pissed.. and rebuffed his chief, but  he knew he had to make it so. otherwise he would have just killed her before taking her to the trail. the only way for him to become stronger in the tribe was to maintain somewhat good graces of his chiefs. but if you notice after she jumped, he didn't look too broken hearted about her suicide. he knew full well that he had to take her as a wife as long as she was alive or find another man for her later on.

Someday I think you and I are going to have a serious disagreement.

Me too. But then again I was disappointed about a lot of things in the director's cut.

Really?  They cut it out?  Disappointing indeed.

They also screwed up the music when they first discover the fort under siege. In the director's cut I don't think there is any music IIRC. Really took away from the scene in my opinion.

It was put back in for the BluRay cut.
But not the "Just dropped in to see how youse boys are doing" line.

Me at the LOTM- Waterfall scene filming location.
https://fbcdn-video-i-a.akamaihd.net/hvideo-ak-xfp1/v/t43.1792-2/744235_602616559769270_1971899502_n.mp4?rl=3861&vabr=2574&oh=7878600c0497b9e18cae381e00996c89&oe=54ADE00F&__gda__=1420680421_ba19d2fd0edc99e4ee8cd46296f2283f

Volume is loud

Dupont State Park-  outside of Asheville NC.    Other waterfalls were used in the movie as well as in the first Hunger Games.

Now that you mention it, there is something, in the book I referenced earlier, relating to Indians grabbing babies from their mothers' arms and bashing their heads into the ground from the moment the inhabitants began marching out.

Thanks for reminding me. I should read it again.

Alright, when I get home tonight, it will be "Sorry honey, don't have time for dinner right now -- I have to get scholarly citations for Forker!"

Happy now?

The waterfall used is Bridal Veil Falls.  They filmed the outside of another water fall to make it look much bigger.  There were other spots, like the scene where he gets killed with the axe.


http://www.carolinamountain.org/hikingchallenge2/dupont1

The Last Of The Mohicans location: the final confrontation between Chingachgook and Magua: Hickory Nut Falls, Chimney Rock Park, North Carolina

http://www.chimneyrockpark.com/park/interestpoints/falls.php

Filming location link if you are interested.

http://www.movie-locations.com/movies/l/Last-Of-The-Mohicans-locations.html#.VK3JzCe5BJ9

Struggle for a Continent: The French and Indian Wars, 1690-1760
Albert Marrin
1987
The book is not footnoted, but has a decent bibliography of relevant sources and publications dating back to the mid-1800s.


[excerpt, page 128]

The French left Ticonderoga in three divisions on July 30, 1757. Since there weren't enough boats for the whole Army, Francois Gaston de Levis, still second-in-command, marched with three thousand men along the western shore of Lake George; the Indians moved through the woods on their own secret trails. Montcalm sailed with the regulars and the and, even more for French honor. The artillery rafts rode low in the water, for they carried some of the heaviest cannon in North America.

Bougainville wasn't happy. It wasn't that he didn't expect victory; that was guaranteed by the cannon. But a few days earlier, several chiefs had come to Montcalm's tent. "Father," said one, "do not expect that we can easily give quarter to the English. We have young men who have never yet drunk of this broth [blood]. Fresh meat has brought them here from the ends of the earth. It is most necessary that they learn to wield the knife and plunge it into the English heart."

Bougainville, an honorable man and a good soldier, had learned warfare in Europe.The men he served with never killed prisoners, much less ate them and drank their blood. The Indians' words sent a chill up his spine. He was afraid for the English and, even more, for French honor.

Montcalm easily surrounded Fort William Henry and isolated the entrenched camp. For nearly a week, his big guns pounded the walls, knocking holes in them in several places. The fort's defenders, many of whom were weak and recovering from smallpox, worked frantically to close the breaches. At night, when the French guns fell silent, they repaired the damage with timber and sandbags, only to see their hard work blown away in the morning. It was a losing battle.

An Indian brought Montcalm a letter found on the body of an Englishman ambushed in the woods. It was General Webb's reply to Colonel Monro's appeal for a counterattack to break the siege. Webb offered no aid, except to suggest that Monro try to get the best surrender terms. Montcalm promptly forwarded the letter under a flag of truce.

[excerpt, page 130]

Next day, August 9, 1957, the sixth day of the siege, a white flag fluttered above Fort William Henry. The surrender terms were generous. Montcalm didn't want prisoners, for there were already too many mouths to feed and food was scarce. Rather than hold the garrison, he promised to let them keep their weapons, although without ammunition or bayonets, and march to Fort Edward under escort. In exchange for freedom, they pledged not to serve against France for eighteen months.

[Note: This was a common pledge on both sides, and they were rarely kept.]

[excerpt, page 131]

Montcalm, however, knew that giving his word wasn't enough. The Indians had to agree; otherwise, they might turn the surrender into a massacre. Before signing the surrender documents, he called the chiefs to a council to explain what he had done and why. The chiefs agreed to everything and promised to control their braves. It was meaningless promise, for nobody could control them if they decided otherwise.

The braves were disappointed and angry, all because of Montcalm's generosity. They had expected loot, and he was allowing the English to keep their possessions. They wanted scalps, and torture victims, and captives to adopt or hold for ransom; now Montcalm was setting his prisoners free.

[excerpt, ibid]

At noon French regulars escorted the garrison to the entrenched camp, where they'd spend the night before moving on to Fort Edward. Eighty-seven wounded and smallpox cases remained behind in the fort hospital. Since they were too ill to be moved, French surgeons were detailed to care for them.

No sooner had the garrison left the fort than a mob of Indians and coureurs de bois dashed through the open gate. They'd come for loot and, finding none, lost control. Howling with rage, they drew their tomahawks and scalping knives. All the wounded and sick were killed, along with several women and children who'd remained with their menfolk.

Father Roubaud, a French army chaplain, heard shrieks and ran to see what was the matter. He ran into blood-spattered Abnaki. The brave had blood on his chin and at the corners of his mouth; he held by the hair the head of an Englishman. Braves even dug up the smallpox cemetery to scalp the rotting corpses. It was only with difficulty that Montcalm's regulars cleared the fort with bayonets.

[excerpt, page 132]

At dawn, August 10, the English formed a column and began the fourteen-mile march to Fort Edward. Four hundred French regulars formed a rear and advance guard. The Indians, too, were wide awake.

As the column moved along the trail, painted braves crowded in from both sides. They began to jostle the fugitives and snatch their possessions away. Men were dragged from the column and the clothes stripped from their backs. There were screams as women and children were grabbed and hauled into the woods. Braves were especially interested in the soldiers' canteens. They knew that the English had been ordered to get rid of their rum; they also knew that many would disobey the order.

[excerpt, page 133]

Frenzied braves danced and waved tomahawks as they poured rum down their throats. Suddenly, a tall Abnaki gave a bloodcurdling war cry. Hundreds took up the cry and began killing the defenseless English. Coureurs de bois looked on, delighted, or encouraged their allies to hack away. Hysterical men begged Canadian officers on their knees for protection but were refused. The outnumbered regulars were powerless against the mob.

Montcalm heard the uproar and came running with his officers. This was not what he wanted, or expected, and he felt ashamed. He stood in the midst of the slaughter and tore open his shirt. "Kill me, but spare the English who are under my protection," he shouted, pointing to his bare chest. About a hundred were already dead but Montcalm put hundreds of others nearby under his personal protection. More regulars were called.

The rest of the English stampeded down the trail or stumbled through the woods, where they soon became lost. Many were naked, having been stripped by the Indians. Hundreds had deep cuts and large bruises covering their bodies. General Webb ordered signal guns fired every few minutes to guide them to Fort Edward. That was the full extent of the help he gave.

[excerpt, ibid, in Montreal, where the Indians ransomed English captives for two kegs of brandy each, except for those prisoners who were to be saved for the victory celebration]

Bougainville, who had arrived the day before with Montcalm's report of the siege, was horrified at what he saw. The Indians got drunk and ran through the streets pushing, kicking and threatening Canadians. "At two o'clock," Bougainville wrote his mother, "in the presence of the entire city, the Indians killed one of the English soldiers, put him in a kettle, and forced his unfortunate comrades to eat him." Bougainville could only add, sadly, "What a land! What a people!"

[excerpt, page 134]

Although Montcalm had risked his life to save prisoners, the massacre left a stain on an otherwise clean reputation. Englishmen never forgot, or forgave, what happened at Fort William Henry. Sooner or later, they vowed, they would pay off the murderers. If ever a French garrison fell into their power the regulars would be treated as prisoners of war. It would be otherwise with Indians and Canadians, especially coureurs de bois.

[excerpt, ibid]

Montcalm withdrew to Ticonderoga and then to Montreal to plan his next moves.

The Indians, too, went home. They brought loot, and scalps, and stories of their own heroism. Those who had scalped the dead in the smallpox cemetery brought something extra. During the fall and winter of 1757, the disease raged among the tribes of the western Great Lakes and prairies. Tribesman, delirious with fever, leaped into streams and drowned. People covered with tiny, puss-filled sores were driven mad by the itching; many went blind. Nearly the entire Potawatomi nation perished. Thus, at least some of the fort's victims took their revenge.



The French and Indian Wars 1754-1763: The Imperial Struggle for North America
Seymour I. Schwartz
1994

[figure 59, page 90]

A large-scale period French map entitled "Attaques du Fort William-Henri" shows the plan of the fort, the English entrenchments (the fort was not large enough to hold everyone and appx. 1200 English and Colonial militia were camped outside the fort), the disposition of French troops and their Indian allies, the surrounding forest and rivers, and the glade where the massacre took place.

And thus we see why the native Americans were often viewed as "blood-thirsty savages" by colonials and their descendants for several generations.

Worked with Mohawk Ironworker for a while back in the '80s, talked to him about some of that, he claimed that if they really really respected you, if you had been exceptionally brave in battle your warm heart was considered a delicacy.