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Posted: 12/20/2014 3:42:16 AM EDT
[#1]
No. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 3:46:28 AM EDT
[#2]
Yes.
You're halfway there already. And you will enjoy the fellowship, most likely. But don't try to fake it for your wife's sake. No one will be happy. Give it a honest try. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 3:51:22 AM EDT
[#3]
Maybe for a while, just don't talk to the people in the congregation for too long.
Eventually it'll grind you down. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 3:52:51 AM EDT
[#4]
Just be honest with yourself. Nothing wrong with believing in anything that your heart is in.
We do it everyday. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 3:53:56 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe for a while, just don't talk to the people in the congregation for too long. Eventually it'll grind you down. I'd imagine that OP has enough sense to recognize who in the congregation is worth speaking to. As in any other setting. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 3:54:03 AM EDT
[#6]
Pascal's wager... Believing in and searching for Kryptonite on the off chance that Superman exists and wants to kill you.
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Posted: 12/20/2014 3:54:43 AM EDT
[#7]
I think Pascal's Wager, as a concept, is completely ridiculous.
That said, I am certain that you won't lose anything, and might actually stand to gain something, by spending time at church with your wife. Worst case, you try it for a while and decide it's not for you. ETA: Full disclosure, I am in the same situation as you with my wife and I choose not to attend church with her. I went down the church path as a teenager and decided it wasn't for me. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 3:55:24 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pascal's wager... Believing in and searching for Kryptonite on the off chance that Superman exists and wants to kill you. Yeah, that's kind of reducto ad absurdum. Not really what Pascal's wager is all about. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 3:57:32 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd imagine that OP has enough sense to recognize who in the congregation is worth speaking to. As in any other setting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Maybe for a while, just don't talk to the people in the congregation for too long. Eventually it'll grind you down. I'd imagine that OP has enough sense to recognize who in the congregation is worth speaking to. As in any other setting. I'm just saying. I tried this with my ex wife. After hearing how everyone is saved, and some of these were pretty shitty people, I couldn't deal with it anymore. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 3:58:17 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, that's kind of reducto ad absurdum. Not really what Pascal's wager is all about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Pascal's wager... Believing in and searching for Kryptonite on the off chance that Superman exists and wants to kill you. Yeah, that's kind of reducto ad absurdum. Not really what Pascal's wager is all about. The argument is logically fallacious in a number of regards, I really don't feel like burning an hour breaking it down for you when google is a step away. You clearly have beliefs and are trying to justify them. If you were asking questions you didn't already have answers to, you wouldn't be trying to defend an answer that circumvented asking a question in the first place. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 3:59:27 AM EDT
[#11]
The wager is nonsensical on its face.
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Posted: 12/20/2014 4:02:11 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm just saying. I tried this with my ex wife. After hearing how everyone is saved, and some of these were pretty shitty people, I couldn't deal with it anymore. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe for a while, just don't talk to the people in the congregation for too long. Eventually it'll grind you down. I'd imagine that OP has enough sense to recognize who in the congregation is worth speaking to. As in any other setting. I'm just saying. I tried this with my ex wife. After hearing how everyone is saved, and some of these were pretty shitty people, I couldn't deal with it anymore. I think it depends on the church. These gigantic non-denominational churches... not for me. For the reasons you give and others. Find a small church local to you, small congregation. Where folks actually know each other. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 4:02:48 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe for a while, just don't talk to the people in the congregation for too long. Eventually it'll grind you down. Churches are full of sinners, that's why I don't go to one. People who have problems, and need some sort of help. If only church helped people with sin and their personal problems..... Hmmm..... |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 4:04:38 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The wager is nonsensical on its face. It also makes some rather large and unsupported theological assumptions, such as God either not discerning or not caring about obedience through fear (dishonest belief) versus belief through faith (honest belief). If you're only in it basically out of fear, to save your hide, you think the God of Abraham isn't going to be able to tell and deal with somebody who isn't really, totally onboard with the program deep in their heart? The Wager is a flawed argument that attempts to reinforcing and justify pre-existing faith in a logical debate where faith holds no credibility. It's an attempt to build a theological, emotional beach-head in the world of logic and it's not a very good one. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 4:11:07 AM EDT
[#15]
Strictly from a theological viewpoint, Pascal's wager fails because it is insincere.
Salvation occurs when the belief [that Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died on the cross and was resurrected] is authentic. It is not a one-sided deal where you hedge your bets and hope for the best. It is a transformative experience in which you are filled with the Holy Spirit and are thus born again spiritually. You cannot fake your way through it; you know what's in your heart and God knows what's in your heart and you're just kidding yourself that you can fool God. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 4:11:32 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, that's kind of reducto ad absurdum. Not really what Pascal's wager is all about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Pascal's wager... Believing in and searching for Kryptonite on the off chance that Superman exists and wants to kill you. Yeah, that's kind of reducto ad absurdum. Not really what Pascal's wager is all about. This is why i posted what i posted. Pascal's Wager? Just believe and proceed how you feel. Iam not going to get into scenarios or stir the pot. You know what you like or don't like. You have the ability to reason. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 4:13:33 AM EDT
[#17]
The Bible and the Gospels either speak to you in a way that your heart understands and gives comfort to your soul through faith... or it doesn't.
They do, for me. A good church is a wonderful community to be a part of. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 4:14:57 AM EDT
[#18]
I know nothing of Pascal or his wager, aside from what the great wiki said.
However, by "throwing in" with your wife and/or the church, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Oddly enough, much like this wager, your gain can be eternal. If, as you believe, God does not exist, then you have lost nothing. To answer your question; Yes, you can be as happy and content as you are now if you gain nothing. If you gain a sense of community, friendship, love, etc., you will certainly be more happy and content. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 4:18:50 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Strictly from a theological viewpoint, Pascal's wager fails because it is insincere. Salvation occurs when the belief [that Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died on the cross and was resurrected] is authentic. It is not a one-sided deal where you hedge your bets and hope for the best. It is a transformative experience in which you are filled with the Holy Spirit and are thus born again spiritually. You cannot fake your way through it; you know what's in your heart and God knows what's in your heart and you're just kidding yourself that you can fool God. QUOTED FOR TRUTH! |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 4:24:46 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Strictly from a theological viewpoint, Pascal's wager fails because it is insincere. Salvation occurs when the belief [that Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died on the cross and was resurrected] is authentic. It is not a one-sided deal where you hedge your bets and hope for the best. It is a transformative experience in which you are filled with the Holy Spirit and are thus born again spiritually. You cannot fake your way through it; you know what's in your heart and God knows what's in your heart and you're just kidding yourself that you can fool God. ^^^There you go! Which ever way you believe. Be true to yourself. That is all that matters. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 4:36:36 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It also makes some rather large and unsupported theological assumptions, such as God either not discerning or not caring about obedience through fear (dishonest belief) versus belief through faith (honest belief). If you're only in it basically out of fear, to save your hide, you think the God of Abraham isn't going to be able to tell and deal with somebody who isn't really, totally onboard with the program deep in their heart? The Wager is a flawed argument that attempts to reinforcing and justify pre-existing faith in a logical debate where faith holds no credibility. It's an attempt to build a theological, emotional beach-head in the world of logic and it's not a very good one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The wager is nonsensical on its face. It also makes some rather large and unsupported theological assumptions, such as God either not discerning or not caring about obedience through fear (dishonest belief) versus belief through faith (honest belief). If you're only in it basically out of fear, to save your hide, you think the God of Abraham isn't going to be able to tell and deal with somebody who isn't really, totally onboard with the program deep in their heart? The Wager is a flawed argument that attempts to reinforcing and justify pre-existing faith in a logical debate where faith holds no credibility. It's an attempt to build a theological, emotional beach-head in the world of logic and it's not a very good one. Most importantly, it assumes you chose the right god. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 4:39:49 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
I think I would enjoy the sense of community it would bring. ... be happy, and content? What does religion have to do with any of those things? Can't you do all of that, even with the same group of religious people at the same church, without personal faith? Believe in your fellow man. Or something. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 4:44:34 AM EDT
[#23]
Join the local Gun club, and show up for meetings, maint. days, shoots, and help out with the Jr program.
It's like Church for gunqueers. Or just go hang out as a fake Christian, until you hate yourself. 
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Posted: 12/20/2014 5:25:14 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most importantly, it assumes you chose the right god. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The wager is nonsensical on its face. It also makes some rather large and unsupported theological assumptions, such as God either not discerning or not caring about obedience through fear (dishonest belief) versus belief through faith (honest belief). If you're only in it basically out of fear, to save your hide, you think the God of Abraham isn't going to be able to tell and deal with somebody who isn't really, totally onboard with the program deep in their heart? The Wager is a flawed argument that attempts to reinforcing and justify pre-existing faith in a logical debate where faith holds no credibility. It's an attempt to build a theological, emotional beach-head in the world of logic and it's not a very good one. Most importantly, it assumes you chose the right god. Also this. Odin is going to have to beat some motherfuckers. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 5:32:15 AM EDT
[#25]
You can be apathetic about this and it wouldn't matter. Do you think so?
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Posted: 12/20/2014 5:42:11 AM EDT
[#26]
Slight thread drift...
When I was back at USAFA from 1990 to 1994...this is my own very anecdotal experience or observation... The most bible thumping cadets were the worst hypocrites...They were very judgemental of other cadets. They didn't come across as very Christian. Or as the old saying goes: "churches aren't a museum for saints but rather a hospital for sinners." It is a proven psychological phenomenon that as religiosity goes up, tolerance goes down. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 5:47:27 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The wager is nonsensical on its face. This. It would make somewhat more sense if man has created only one God, but alas there are many more than one... |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 6:00:30 AM EDT
[#28]
I'm curious. How does one turn belief on and off? If your mind does not believe, what good is pretending? Are we supposed to assume a god can be tricked? That by going through the motions, and pretending belief god will reward you with eternal bliss? How does Pascal's Wager work? |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 6:05:39 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pascal's wager... Believing in and searching for Kryptonite on the off chance that Superman exists and wants to kill you. Sodium lithium boron silicate hydroxide with fluorine mineral is not terribly expensive and is ultimately cheap insurance against super powered sons of Krypton run amok. You can get it from mines in Serbia. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 6:07:27 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm curious. How does one turn belief on and off? If your mind does not believe, what good is pretending? Are we supposed to assume a god can be tricked? That by going through the motions, and pretending belief god will reward you with eternal bliss? How does Pascal's Wager work? I'd venture to say the vast majority of religious adherents are only "going through the motions", but who am I to judge? That's what's so attractive about the "born again" crowd, you simply say some jibberish, and you are good, regardless of previous sins. All murderers are gtg, just say a few words and believe them and bam! Heaven! |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 6:11:39 AM EDT
[#31]
I think you would meet a lot of nice people and hear a lot of good advice, stories, and metaphors that would bring good into your life. It is a good time for self-reflection.
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Posted: 12/20/2014 6:18:39 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: I'm not, nor have I ever been a Christian. My wife, however, is. I am seriously considering taking Pascal's wager and throwing in my lot with her and her church. I think I would enjoy the sense of community it would bring. Anybody think a rational, yet spiritual, person who believes in a higher power, but not necessarily the divinity of Christ, can dive headlong into Christianity and be happy, and content? Of course. What you believe is what should be important to you. I happen to believe that Pascal predicated his wager on a belief in mythical places, willfully ignoring the secular ramifications of choosing a monastic life. In other words: "The sinners are much more fun..." |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 6:20:12 AM EDT
[#33]
They will want your money and make you feel guilty if you don't ante up.
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Posted: 12/20/2014 7:35:21 AM EDT
[#34]
Pascal's wager isn't so much an argument as a demonstration of the problems with unbounded utilitarianism. Hence it's descendant, Pascal's mugging.
Send me a free Colt 6920 or 15 invisible babies die. You probably find the idea of ethereal infants ludicrous, but it's conceivable they exist, so they have some microscopic probability in your eyes. So I need simply increase the negative value of the outcome until it multiplies out into something big enough to tip the scale regardless of how implausible the claim is. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 7:46:09 AM EDT
[#35]
Pascal's Wager hinges on you picking the right god to worship, and on that god being gullible enough to fall for it.
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Posted: 12/20/2014 7:53:18 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pascal's Wager hinges on you picking the right god to worship, and on that god being gullible enough to fall for it. This. There are a couple thousand. Choose wisely |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 8:05:28 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
... Anybody think a rational, yet spiritual, person who believes in a higher power, but not necessarily the divinity of Christ, can dive headlong into Christianity and be happy, and content? I can't even get near a church without smelling hypocrisy. Canoeing is a sport with a nice community. Really. The people tend to be kind and peaceful and helpful. The outdoor activity is therapeutic. Great way to spend a Sunday morning. And you don't have to get dressed up or give money to charlatans. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 8:27:56 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can't even get near a church without smelling hypocrisy. Canoeing is a sport with a nice community. Really. The people tend to be kind and peaceful and helpful. The outdoor activity is therapeutic. Great way to spend a Sunday morning. And you don't have to get dressed up or give money to charlatans. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ... Anybody think a rational, yet spiritual, person who believes in a higher power, but not necessarily the divinity of Christ, can dive headlong into Christianity and be happy, and content? I can't even get near a church without smelling hypocrisy. Canoeing is a sport with a nice community. Really. The people tend to be kind and peaceful and helpful. The outdoor activity is therapeutic. Great way to spend a Sunday morning. And you don't have to get dressed up or give money to charlatans. I'm very agnostic, so I share your skepticism cynicism. There have been a couple of church services I've been to in which the pastor seemed to truly care about the daily lives of his congregation, and seemed wise enough that I should listen to him. I've also been to services that make me want to walk up to the altar and punch the lying prick bastard in the mouth, then walk into the pews and bitch-slap the idiots who believe in him. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 8:37:37 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm very agnostic, so I share your skepticism cynicism. There have been a couple of church services I've been to in which the pastor seemed to truly care about the daily lives of his congregation, and seemed wise enough that I should listen to him. I've also been to services that make me want to walk up to the altar and punch the lying prick bastard in the mouth, then walk into the pews and bitch-slap the idiots who believe in him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
... Anybody think a rational, yet spiritual, person who believes in a higher power, but not necessarily the divinity of Christ, can dive headlong into Christianity and be happy, and content? I can't even get near a church without smelling hypocrisy. Canoeing is a sport with a nice community. Really. The people tend to be kind and peaceful and helpful. The outdoor activity is therapeutic. Great way to spend a Sunday morning. And you don't have to get dressed up or give money to charlatans. I'm very agnostic, so I share your skepticism cynicism. There have been a couple of church services I've been to in which the pastor seemed to truly care about the daily lives of his congregation, and seemed wise enough that I should listen to him. I've also been to services that make me want to walk up to the altar and punch the lying prick bastard in the mouth, then walk into the pews and bitch-slap the idiots who believe in him. We went to a dinner a couple days ago and the preacher giving the invocation thanked God for making the stock market go up. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 8:58:44 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We went to a dinner a couple days ago and the preacher giving the invocation thanked God for making the stock market go up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
... Anybody think a rational, yet spiritual, person who believes in a higher power, but not necessarily the divinity of Christ, can dive headlong into Christianity and be happy, and content? I can't even get near a church without smelling hypocrisy. Canoeing is a sport with a nice community. Really. The people tend to be kind and peaceful and helpful. The outdoor activity is therapeutic. Great way to spend a Sunday morning. And you don't have to get dressed up or give money to charlatans. I'm very agnostic, so I share your skepticism cynicism. There have been a couple of church services I've been to in which the pastor seemed to truly care about the daily lives of his congregation, and seemed wise enough that I should listen to him. I've also been to services that make me want to walk up to the altar and punch the lying prick bastard in the mouth, then walk into the pews and bitch-slap the idiots who believe in him. We went to a dinner a couple days ago and the preacher giving the invocation thanked God for making the stock market go up. Question... Did he thank God for making the stock market go up or did he express thankfulness that the stock market went up? Very important distinction. The formal means he's a money grubbing fool that should be run out of the church. The latter is an expression of gratefulness that the market went up without any implication it was because of a personal favor from God. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:11:24 AM EDT
[#41]
? ?? ?????µe??? ???e?
ETA: Why doesn't arfcode support UTF-8? «tc2k11» |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:16:48 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
I'm not, nor have I ever been a Christian. My wife, however, is. I am seriously considering taking Pascal's wager and throwing in my lot with her and her church. I think I would enjoy the sense of community it would bring. Anybody think a rational, yet spiritual, person who believes in a higher power, but not necessarily the divinity of Christ, can dive headlong into Christianity and be happy, and content? How exactly does that work when the central tenant of Christianity is the divinity of Christ? |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:22:13 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How exactly does that work when the central tenant of Christianity is the divinity of Christ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm not, nor have I ever been a Christian. My wife, however, is. I am seriously considering taking Pascal's wager and throwing in my lot with her and her church. I think I would enjoy the sense of community it would bring. Anybody think a rational, yet spiritual, person who believes in a higher power, but not necessarily the divinity of Christ, can dive headlong into Christianity and be happy, and content? How exactly does that work when the central tenant of Christianity is the divinity of Christ? Hence the statement being presented as a question... Oops! Grammar Police mode accidentally left on. It's called Judaism... Even Islam considers Jesus as a divine entity (although a minor prophet). Nobody ever said religion had to make sense... That's why there is an emphasis on faith. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:33:42 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. This.
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:46:23 AM EDT
[#45]
OP, there's only one way to find out - might as well give it a try.
I believe you will have a hard time maintaining that position, though. C.S Lewis who once held that position, he came to the following conclusion: I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about
Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God." That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic-on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg-or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to. - http://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/apologetics/mere-christianity/Mere-Christianity.pdf |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:48:41 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Strictly from a theological viewpoint, Pascal's wager fails because it is insincere. Salvation occurs when the belief [that Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died on the cross and was resurrected] is authentic. It is not a one-sided deal where you hedge your bets and hope for the best. It is a transformative experience in which you are filled with the Holy Spirit and are thus born again spiritually. You cannot fake your way through it; you know what's in your heart and God knows what's in your heart and you're just kidding yourself that you can fool God. I am Christian, although most people would consider me a "bad" Christian. I really don't go to church much, which drives my wife a little crazy. I curse, I've been known to have a drink now and again, and I'm no stranger to porn. In short, I'm a sinner. That makes just the same as everybody else I know. But I don't kick dogs, I'm kind to children, and I try to be the most honorable man I can be. I figure God knows me better than anybody. Don't necessarily let a disdain for "church" keep you from having a relationship with God. The affect He can have in your life is nothing short of miraculous. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:54:59 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The argument is logically fallacious in a number of regards, I really don't feel like burning an hour breaking it down for you when google is a step away. You clearly have beliefs and are trying to justify them. If you were asking questions you didn't already have answers to, you wouldn't be trying to defend an answer that circumvented asking a question in the first place. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Pascal's wager... Believing in and searching for Kryptonite on the off chance that Superman exists and wants to kill you. Yeah, that's kind of reducto ad absurdum. Not really what Pascal's wager is all about. The argument is logically fallacious in a number of regards, I really don't feel like burning an hour breaking it down for you when google is a step away. You clearly have beliefs and are trying to justify them. If you were asking questions you didn't already have answers to, you wouldn't be trying to defend an answer that circumvented asking a question in the first place. Pascal's wager is not a formal proof. It's from an incomplete work where he jotted down some notes where he was going to make an entire book about God (called the Pensees). It isn't really an argument for God. It is very clearly a response to the accusation that there must not exist a God. It is perfectly sensible and - while not proven with formal logic - it was intended to be a simple argument that anyone can grasp. Academics generally have a hard time with simple subjects. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:55:28 AM EDT
[#48]
Partake and be polite and cordial. Feel free to ask serious questions and even though you don't agree with their answers, most should enjoy an honest conversation. If they do not, find a church that will.
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:57:48 AM EDT
[#49]
Yes. Even if the belief system doesn't win you over, its an excuse to make new friends and make your wife happy.
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:59:43 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, there's only one way to find out - might as well give it a try. I believe you will have a hard time maintaining that position, though. C.S Lewis who once held that position, he came to the following conclusion: - http://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/apologetics/mere-christianity/Mere-Christianity.pdf Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, there's only one way to find out - might as well give it a try. I believe you will have a hard time maintaining that position, though. C.S Lewis who once held that position, he came to the following conclusion: I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about
Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God." That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic-on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg-or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to. - http://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/apologetics/mere-christianity/Mere-Christianity.pdf And he is absolutely correct. Jesus repeatedly said he was the son of God. Repeatedly. So no one can really say "oh well he was a great rabbi/teacher/man", because he would have been lying about his entire existence. He either really is who he says he is or he is one of the worst liars in the history of the planet. |
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