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Posted: 12/18/2014 4:53:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Tag for later.
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Posted: 12/18/2014 5:02:37 PM EDT
[#2]
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Didn't the dispatcher request an address? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wait a minute, when did "the authorities" request GZ to "keep tabs" on TM? Didn't the dispatcher request an address? The dispatcher asked him "what is he doing now" or "where is he now" which provided the impetus for GZ to get out of his car to see if he could spot him. He was following his Neighborhood watch training though, trying to keep distance between them. He just didn't know where he was after he lost sight of him. Who woulda thunk he'd double back. Must be a Miami thing. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 5:06:58 PM EDT
[#3]
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The dispatcher asked him "what is he doing now" or "where is he now" which provided the impetus for GZ to get out of his car to see if he could spot him. He was following his Neighborhood watch training though, trying to keep distance between them. He just didn't know where he was after he lost sight of him. Who woulda thunk he'd double back. Must be a Miami thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wait a minute, when did "the authorities" request GZ to "keep tabs" on TM? Didn't the dispatcher request an address? The dispatcher asked him "what is he doing now" or "where is he now" which provided the impetus for GZ to get out of his car to see if he could spot him. He was following his Neighborhood watch training though, trying to keep distance between them. He just didn't know where he was after he lost sight of him. Who woulda thunk he'd double back. Must be a Miami thing. Plus if you look at the aerial view of the complex it wasn't really a straightforward matter of just driving to the next intersection and getting the cross streets. It's one of those circuitous set ups, not at all a grid type layout. Stopping the vehicle to make a quick look-see isn't the unreasonable action the anti-GZ diehards make it out to be. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 5:08:23 PM EDT
[#4]
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"The anti self defense crowd" really being the "don't be a dumbass crowd. You would think that Zimmerman would be a cautionary tale, but people here still rant about how they would leave their house to fight three men breaking into a parked car in their driveway. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He lived there and Trayvon Martin didn't. And his instincts were proved correct - Trayvon Martin was indeed a shitbird. And the cost for being right was having his life ruined. His life was indeed ruined. But wouldn't the alternative been worse? Isn't the anti-self defense crowd trying to make submission (for a law-abiding citizen) seem like a better option? If Trayvon had hurt or killed GZ, we would probably never have heard of this case. But because GZ followed the law, and called the police, he is the bad guy. I don't have to leave the house. and actually I don't have to leave the couch either. the car is parked right out side from the living room window. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 6:02:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't the dispatcher request an address? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wait a minute, when did "the authorities" request GZ to "keep tabs" on TM? Didn't the dispatcher request an address? He gave them an address, and even told them where to meet him, but when told the he didn't need to follow Martin he said to just call him when they arrived. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 7:02:18 PM EDT
[#6]
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He gave them an address, and even told them where to meet him, but when told the he didn't need to follow Martin he said to just call him when they arrived. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wait a minute, when did "the authorities" request GZ to "keep tabs" on TM? Didn't the dispatcher request an address? He gave them an address, and even told them where to meet him, but when told the he didn't need to follow Martin he said to just call him when they arrived. Believe he said 'ok', then started the trek back to the car. Jaentel testified that it was Martin who made the initial challenge and threw the first blow. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 7:07:22 PM EDT
[#7]
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Plus if you look at the aerial view of the complex it wasn't really a straightforward matter of just driving to the next intersection and getting the cross streets. It's one of those circuitous set ups, not at all a grid type layout. Stopping the vehicle to make a quick look-see isn't the unreasonable action the anti-GZ diehards make it out to be. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wait a minute, when did "the authorities" request GZ to "keep tabs" on TM? Didn't the dispatcher request an address? The dispatcher asked him "what is he doing now" or "where is he now" which provided the impetus for GZ to get out of his car to see if he could spot him. He was following his Neighborhood watch training though, trying to keep distance between them. He just didn't know where he was after he lost sight of him. Who woulda thunk he'd double back. Must be a Miami thing. Plus if you look at the aerial view of the complex it wasn't really a straightforward matter of just driving to the next intersection and getting the cross streets. It's one of those circuitous set ups, not at all a grid type layout. Stopping the vehicle to make a quick look-see isn't the unreasonable action the anti-GZ diehards make it out to be. Yeah Zimmerman wasn't real keen on telling the dispatcher his home address over the phone for fear somebody would hear. He was being cautious. Just not cautious enough for a practiced thug from Miami. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 9:23:15 PM EDT
[#8]
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Go on. You know, he used to post here... until a bunch of real assclowns piled on him, accused him of being a fraud, teaching classes drunk, etc. Were you one of those folks by chance? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll listen later, but Ayoob has always been contradictory in his writhing and kind of assclownish. Light years better than Yeager but that's not saying much. Go on. You know, he used to post here... until a bunch of real assclowns piled on him, accused him of being a fraud, teaching classes drunk, etc. Were you one of those folks by chance? Wow butt hurt much????? Before I started getting actual training and carrying for a living I used to read Ayoob religiously. Then i started to notice that he would say one thing one month then the opposite the next. Then a third thing the next - each contradictory. Then he made a huge deal about how his soft armor saved his life - in a car crash. Totly pandering to second chance body armorer to get them to call him save # xxxxx. Final straw for me was an article he wrote about the 357 SIG in which a shooter at a class he was teaching had one. " the student was good, but I made him better". Arrogance well beyond his skill set - espdcily for a part time small town cop. Is he a good shot ? Yes. Is he a contradictory assclown? Also yes. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 9:26:54 PM EDT
[#9]
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Please post some examples, I've been reading his stuff since the early 80s and I would love to know what you're talking about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll listen later, but Ayoob has always been contradictory in his writhing and kind of assclownish. Light years better than Yeager but that's not saying much. Please post some examples, I've been reading his stuff since the early 80s and I would love to know what you're talking about. One case readily springs to mind is he saying that he has never flown armed. Then the next month that he had. Then the next month that it was in a private plane. Like I said, when I was a new to guns amateur I thought very highly of him. As I got experience and Actual knowledge I realized that he wasn't really a competent armed professional. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 3:02:10 PM EDT
[#10]
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I always wondered why Zimmerman didnt fire a few rounds in the air to scare off the attacker? That has to de-escalate all but the most determined assassins. I know if someone fired a round in the air in front of me, my first thought would be the next one won't be in the air, and run as hell. The thugs might be criminal, but they aren't stupid, or completely irrational. Holy fuck, you're a disgrace to '03ers and should be considered an honorary '13er. 
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Posted: 12/19/2014 3:14:38 PM EDT
[#11]
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Holy fuck, you're a disgrace to '03ers and should be considered an honorary '13er. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I always wondered why Zimmerman didnt fire a few rounds in the air to scare off the attacker? That has to de-escalate all but the most determined assassins. I know if someone fired a round in the air in front of me, my first thought would be the next one won't be in the air, and run as hell. The thugs might be criminal, but they aren't stupid, or completely irrational. Holy fuck, you're a disgrace to '03ers and should be considered an honorary '13er. It does make you wonder about some people's thought processes... |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 6:43:01 PM EDT
[#12]
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Then he made a huge deal about how his soft armor saved his life - in a car crash. Totly pandering to second chance body armorer to get them to call him save # xxxxx. Not chiming in on the personality issue, but I've heard of vests helping with accidents before. A quick search: Bulletproof Vest Saves Deputy’s Life In Crash
The life of a Franklin County sheriff’s deputy is saved by his bulletproof vest, but not in the way most people might think. It happened as the officer was answering to an emergency call. Ronald Lalumandier, 29, has only been with the Franklin County Sheriff’s Department a short while. “He told me the first thing he thought was, ‘I’m going to die,'” said Franklin County Sheriff Pat Melton. The deputy sheriff was on an emergency run, speeding to a brawl involving five or six people early Monday evening when his patrol car left Evergreen Road just outside the Frankfort city limits. “Coming around the curve, his back end broke loose and wound up going through the fence,” said Melton. Black ice may be to blame. The vehicle smashed through a wooden plank fence with one of the planks flying through the front windshield. The officer was wearing his bulletproof vest, which was loaded with extra trauma plates. Melton credits the vest with saving his the deputy’s life.” http://www.bodyarmornews.com/bulletproof-vest-saves-deputys-life-in-crash/ Officer’s Cruiser Struck from Behind at Roadside
Sergeant Richard L. Kelly of the Indiana State Police was working a motor carrier safety assistance program on I-65. He was stopped behind a tractor-trailer rig and was seated in his police cruiser conducting an inspection when a second truck struck his patrol car from behind. The impact destroyed Kelly’s cruiser. He suffered fractures to the fifth and sixth vertebrae of his spine and numerous lacerations to his head, arms, hands, legs, and left ear. Kelly also received several contusions to his entire body, including his chest. Kelly was wearing department-issued body armor at the time of the crash. The armor is credited by his agency with reducing the severity of the injuries, especially the damage to Kelly’s vital organs. Kelly was transported to a local hospital, where he was treated for two days before being released for home recovery. He later underwent follow-up surgery to fuse the fractured vertebrae in his neck. Doctors anticipate that Kelly will have a long recuperation before he can return to full duty. Police Chief Magazine Bulletproof vest helped protect Mt. Lebanon officer in car crash
For the second time this year, a bulletproof vest saved a Mt. Lebanon police officer from more serious injury, police said Monday. Officer Pete Sutek suffered bruised ribs at 3:20 a.m. Sunday when a 2000 Nissan Sentra crashed into the passenger side of his police cruiser at the intersection of Mt. Lebanon Boulevard and Washington Road Pittsburgh Trib News Article Vests Save Lives: A Reminder of the Importance of Wearing Soft Body Armor
Ballistic vests have also proved to be equally effective in protecting officers from severe blunt force trauma. On the morning of November 18, 2007, Trooper Cameron Keesling of the Virginia State Police received a request for assistance in pursuing a vehicle from a nearby jurisdiction. Trooper Keesling and other officers were able to execute a rolling roadblock effectively. As Keesling exited his marked cruiser from the passenger side, the suspect rammed the vehicle, pinning the trooper between the door and the body of the vehicle. Trooper Keesling drew his weapon and fatally shot the suspect. He was subsequently transported to a local hospital and treated for blunt force trauma to the front and rear sides of his torso as well as below the waist. The imprint of the police vehicle door was visible on Keesling’s body armor. It was determined that this body armor was instrumental in protecting the trooper from more serious injury or death. Police Chief Magazine |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 6:56:13 PM EDT
[#13]
just curious, does anyone here have any friends that patrol on neighborhood watch? does anyone here or does anyone here have friends who 'look out for criminals' in their neighborhoods?? i don't... and i always though arfcom response to people saying 'we want people to watch out for us' would be 'arm your damn self...'
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:25:11 PM EDT
[#14]
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Wow butt hurt much????? Before I started getting actual training and carrying for a living I used to read Ayoob religiously. Then i started to notice that he would say one thing one month then the opposite the next. Then a third thing the next - each contradictory. Then he made a huge deal about how his soft armor saved his life - in a car crash. Totly pandering to second chance body armorer to get them to call him save # xxxxx. Final straw for me was an article he wrote about the 357 SIG in which a shooter at a class he was teaching had one. " the student was good, but I made him better". Arrogance well beyond his skill set - espdcily for a part time small town cop. Is he a good shot ? Yes. Is he a contradictory assclown? Also yes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll listen later, but Ayoob has always been contradictory in his writhing and kind of assclownish. Light years better than Yeager but that's not saying much. Go on. You know, he used to post here... until a bunch of real assclowns piled on him, accused him of being a fraud, teaching classes drunk, etc. Were you one of those folks by chance? Wow butt hurt much????? Before I started getting actual training and carrying for a living I used to read Ayoob religiously. Then i started to notice that he would say one thing one month then the opposite the next. Then a third thing the next - each contradictory. Then he made a huge deal about how his soft armor saved his life - in a car crash. Totly pandering to second chance body armorer to get them to call him save # xxxxx. Final straw for me was an article he wrote about the 357 SIG in which a shooter at a class he was teaching had one. " the student was good, but I made him better". Arrogance well beyond his skill set - espdcily for a part time small town cop. Is he a good shot ? Yes. Is he a contradictory assclown? Also yes. I'll take your answer as a yes |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:44:41 PM EDT
[#15]
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I'll take your answer as a yes Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll listen later, but Ayoob has always been contradictory in his writhing and kind of assclownish. Light years better than Yeager but that's not saying much. Go on. You know, he used to post here... until a bunch of real assclowns piled on him, accused him of being a fraud, teaching classes drunk, etc. Were you one of those folks by chance? Wow butt hurt much????? Before I started getting actual training and carrying for a living I used to read Ayoob religiously. Then i started to notice that he would say one thing one month then the opposite the next. Then a third thing the next - each contradictory. Then he made a huge deal about how his soft armor saved his life - in a car crash. Totly pandering to second chance body armorer to get them to call him save # xxxxx. Final straw for me was an article he wrote about the 357 SIG in which a shooter at a class he was teaching had one. " the student was good, but I made him better". Arrogance well beyond his skill set - espdcily for a part time small town cop. Is he a good shot ? Yes. Is he a contradictory assclown? Also yes. I'll take your answer as a yes I don't recall seeing that thread, but if its archived I can try to find it. Regardless, we have a vast distance between our views. I have a great deal of training and experience that enables me to arrive at my conclusions. Since I don't know you from Adam I must assume that your stance is arrived from either flawed logic or from a relationship with Ayoob (class attendance, reading his stuff growing up and not evolving as experience tells you he writes a lot of BS or other factors) that clouds your judgment. PM me if you want to talk more. We can exchange backgrounds and see how we are where we are. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:49:43 PM EDT
[#16]
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Not chiming in on the personality issue, but I've heard of vests helping with accidents before. A quick search: [div style='margin-left: 40px;']Bulletproof Vest Saves Deputy’s Life In Crash The life of a Franklin County sheriff’s deputy is saved by his bulletproof vest, but not in the way most people might think. It happened as the officer was answering to an emergency call. Ronald Lalumandier, 29, has only been with the Franklin County Sheriff’s Department a short while. “He told me the first thing he thought was, ‘I’m going to die,'” said Franklin County Sheriff Pat Melton. The deputy sheriff was on an emergency run, speeding to a brawl involving five or six people early Monday evening when his patrol car left Evergreen Road just outside the Frankfort city limits. “Coming around the curve, his back end broke loose and wound up going through the fence,” said Melton. Black ice may be to blame. The vehicle smashed through a wooden plank fence with one of the planks flying through the front windshield. The officer was wearing his bulletproof vest, which was loaded with extra trauma plates. Melton credits the vest with saving his the deputy’s life.” http://www.bodyarmornews.com/bulletproof-vest-saves-deputys-life-in-crash/ [div style='margin-left: 40px;']Officer’s Cruiser Struck from Behind at Roadside Sergeant Richard L. Kelly of the Indiana State Police was working a motor carrier safety assistance program on I-65. He was stopped behind a tractor-trailer rig and was seated in his police cruiser conducting an inspection when a second truck struck his patrol car from behind. The impact destroyed Kelly’s cruiser. He suffered fractures to the fifth and sixth vertebrae of his spine and numerous lacerations to his head, arms, hands, legs, and left ear. Kelly also received several contusions to his entire body, including his chest. Kelly was wearing department-issued body armor at the time of the crash. The armor is credited by his agency with reducing the severity of the injuries, especially the damage to Kelly’s vital organs. Kelly was transported to a local hospital, where he was treated for two days before being released for home recovery. He later underwent follow-up surgery to fuse the fractured vertebrae in his neck. Doctors anticipate that Kelly will have a long recuperation before he can return to full duty. Police Chief Magazine [div style='margin-left: 40px;']Bulletproof vest helped protect Mt. Lebanon officer in car crash For the second time this year, a bulletproof vest saved a Mt. Lebanon police officer from more serious injury, police said Monday. Officer Pete Sutek suffered bruised ribs at 3:20 a.m. Sunday when a 2000 Nissan Sentra crashed into the passenger side of his police cruiser at the intersection of Mt. Lebanon Boulevard and Washington Road Pittsburgh Trib News Article [div style='margin-left: 40px;']Vests Save Lives: A Reminder of the Importance of Wearing Soft Body Armor Ballistic vests have also proved to be equally effective in protecting officers from severe blunt force trauma. On the morning of November 18, 2007, Trooper Cameron Keesling of the Virginia State Police received a request for assistance in pursuing a vehicle from a nearby jurisdiction. Trooper Keesling and other officers were able to execute a rolling roadblock effectively. As Keesling exited his marked cruiser from the passenger side, the suspect rammed the vehicle, pinning the trooper between the door and the body of the vehicle. Trooper Keesling drew his weapon and fatally shot the suspect. He was subsequently transported to a local hospital and treated for blunt force trauma to the front and rear sides of his torso as well as below the waist. The imprint of the police vehicle door was visible on Keesling’s body armor. It was determined that this body armor was instrumental in protecting the trooper from more serious injury or death. Police Chief Magazine Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Then he made a huge deal about how his soft armor saved his life - in a car crash. Totly pandering to second chance body armorer to get them to call him save # xxxxx. Not chiming in on the personality issue, but I've heard of vests helping with accidents before. A quick search: [div style='margin-left: 40px;']Bulletproof Vest Saves Deputy’s Life In Crash The life of a Franklin County sheriff’s deputy is saved by his bulletproof vest, but not in the way most people might think. It happened as the officer was answering to an emergency call. Ronald Lalumandier, 29, has only been with the Franklin County Sheriff’s Department a short while. “He told me the first thing he thought was, ‘I’m going to die,'” said Franklin County Sheriff Pat Melton. The deputy sheriff was on an emergency run, speeding to a brawl involving five or six people early Monday evening when his patrol car left Evergreen Road just outside the Frankfort city limits. “Coming around the curve, his back end broke loose and wound up going through the fence,” said Melton. Black ice may be to blame. The vehicle smashed through a wooden plank fence with one of the planks flying through the front windshield. The officer was wearing his bulletproof vest, which was loaded with extra trauma plates. Melton credits the vest with saving his the deputy’s life.” http://www.bodyarmornews.com/bulletproof-vest-saves-deputys-life-in-crash/ [div style='margin-left: 40px;']Officer’s Cruiser Struck from Behind at Roadside Sergeant Richard L. Kelly of the Indiana State Police was working a motor carrier safety assistance program on I-65. He was stopped behind a tractor-trailer rig and was seated in his police cruiser conducting an inspection when a second truck struck his patrol car from behind. The impact destroyed Kelly’s cruiser. He suffered fractures to the fifth and sixth vertebrae of his spine and numerous lacerations to his head, arms, hands, legs, and left ear. Kelly also received several contusions to his entire body, including his chest. Kelly was wearing department-issued body armor at the time of the crash. The armor is credited by his agency with reducing the severity of the injuries, especially the damage to Kelly’s vital organs. Kelly was transported to a local hospital, where he was treated for two days before being released for home recovery. He later underwent follow-up surgery to fuse the fractured vertebrae in his neck. Doctors anticipate that Kelly will have a long recuperation before he can return to full duty. Police Chief Magazine [div style='margin-left: 40px;']Bulletproof vest helped protect Mt. Lebanon officer in car crash For the second time this year, a bulletproof vest saved a Mt. Lebanon police officer from more serious injury, police said Monday. Officer Pete Sutek suffered bruised ribs at 3:20 a.m. Sunday when a 2000 Nissan Sentra crashed into the passenger side of his police cruiser at the intersection of Mt. Lebanon Boulevard and Washington Road Pittsburgh Trib News Article [div style='margin-left: 40px;']Vests Save Lives: A Reminder of the Importance of Wearing Soft Body Armor Ballistic vests have also proved to be equally effective in protecting officers from severe blunt force trauma. On the morning of November 18, 2007, Trooper Cameron Keesling of the Virginia State Police received a request for assistance in pursuing a vehicle from a nearby jurisdiction. Trooper Keesling and other officers were able to execute a rolling roadblock effectively. As Keesling exited his marked cruiser from the passenger side, the suspect rammed the vehicle, pinning the trooper between the door and the body of the vehicle. Trooper Keesling drew his weapon and fatally shot the suspect. He was subsequently transported to a local hospital and treated for blunt force trauma to the front and rear sides of his torso as well as below the waist. The imprint of the police vehicle door was visible on Keesling’s body armor. It was determined that this body armor was instrumental in protecting the trooper from more serious injury or death. Police Chief Magazine Not saying you are wrong (you are not with the examples cited) but Ayoob went out of his way to write up about the Second chance save # he had and etc. For inexperienced folks it was quite the tale.For the been there crowd is was a lot of verbal masturbation. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:49:51 PM EDT
[#17]
Mas is the man, a walking encyclopedia of knowledge and experience. Listen to him and take in the wisdom now, while he is still with us. One day, when he passes, his writings will be considered like Jeff Cooper's. I always carefully digest what Mas has to say.
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:59:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Tag
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Posted: 12/20/2014 10:02:11 PM EDT
[#19]
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I always wondered why Zimmerman didnt fire a few rounds in the air to scare off the attacker? That has to de-escalate all but the most determined assassins. I know if someone fired a round in the air in front of me, my first thought would be the next one won't be in the air, and run as hell. The thugs might be criminal, but they aren't stupid, or completely irrational. wow. An 11 year old troll account. Mad props, yo. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 10:17:18 PM EDT
[#20]
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He is $2.5 million in debt. His family is still hounded. He can't get a job. He wishes he had liability insurance. Avoid the fucking media at all costs. It really is worth the listen. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Linky no play for me. 
Cliff notes? He is $2.5 million in debt. His family is still hounded. He can't get a job. He wishes he had liability insurance. Avoid the fucking media at all costs. It really is worth the listen. Of which Masaad and the program seem to be a part of. How convenient of George to stop by and help indirectly ... almost ... advertise it. All that you wrote is true, but the whole program seemed like an insurance sales shtick. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 10:29:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Zimmerman had over $360,000 of money owed to the State alone for court and associated costs. Still owes the lawyers $2.5 million. I thought the State failing to convict meant the prosecution ate most of those costs? |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 11:23:46 PM EDT
[#22]
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I don't recall seeing that thread, but if its archived I can try to find it. Regardless, we have a vast distance between our views. I have a great deal of training and experience that enables me to arrive at my conclusions. Since I don't know you from Adam I must assume that your stance is arrived from either flawed logic or from a relationship with Ayoob (class attendance, reading his stuff growing up and not evolving as experience tells you he writes a lot of BS or other factors) that clouds your judgment. PM me if you want to talk more. We can exchange backgrounds and see how we are where we are. For OPSEC reasons, I don't engage in credential-measuring contests. I'm not an Ayoob acolyte. I've never seen him shoot, I've never taken a class of his, and I've never met the man. I do know he's very highly recommended as a legal consultant. In fact, he helped a student of mine stay out of prison after a self-defense shooting. I've been teaching and/or training for >20 years... And I've seen Ayoob save regular people from prison over and over. That alone is enough for me to respect and recognize his contributions and expertise. ETA: and the second chance thing? Who cares about that? I've worked in EMS long enough to see officers spared from worse blunt vehicular trauma by their vests. So only gunshot wounds count? When so many officers die from vehicle crashes? Taking issue with that is pedantry and nonsense.... Just MHO |
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Posted: 12/21/2014 11:29:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Ayoob is the #1 expert witness when it comes to self defense/use of force testimony.....
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/11/2015 9:27:29 AM EDT
[#24]
Bump since I missed it the first time.
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Posted: 1/11/2015 9:33:16 AM EDT
[#25]
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Bump since I missed it the first time. I think ZimZam is a decent but flawed guy (like all of us) that has been overwhelmed by events. (Like we all would be.) And yes, I'm aware of the latest "bottle throwing" charge. |
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Posted: 1/11/2015 10:26:28 AM EDT
[#26]
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OST |
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Posted: 1/11/2015 10:31:04 AM EDT
[#27]
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OST Little help. What does OST mean? Original Sound Track-as in....same shit different day? |
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Posted: 1/11/2015 10:33:32 AM EDT
[#28]
Ayoob Massad gave one of the best lectures on disparity of force I've ever heard and it was truly worthy of a law school level lecture.
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Posted: 1/11/2015 10:37:19 AM EDT
[#29]
I bet he wishes he had just went home that night.
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Posted: 1/11/2015 10:43:07 AM EDT
[#30]
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I've no doubt that thought haunts him. I can picture him lying in bed in the dark, thinking, "Why did I get out of the car?" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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His life was indeed ruined. But wouldn't the alternative been worse? In the moment where he pulled the gun he had no other option. It's the moments prior to that moment where he had options...and where I betcha if he could do it over again he'd do a whole lot of things differently. I've no doubt that thought haunts him. I can picture him lying in bed in the dark, thinking, "Why did I get out of the car?" I bet Darren Wilson is asking himself the same thing. If society makes it impossible for anyone to defend themselves against criminals then it deserves the rapes, robberies and murders. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/11/2015 10:57:08 AM EDT
[#31]
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Zimmerman's shoot was 100% righteous. Not 50%... not 75%... 100% He committed no crime, he followed directions, he "observed and reported," he had a known history of selflessly helping out his neighbors, and he involved the police early-on. He did EVERYTHING a good neighbor could reasonably be expected to do. His only fault seems to be that he underestimated the thuggishness/"keepin'-it-realness" of Trayvon, and got ambushed. Trayvon threw the first (and frankly all) the punches. As a result, Zimmerman had to do something nobody ever wants to do. Still, and I've said it over-and-over in these threads, and I'll say it again: I'd live next-door to George Zimmerman any day. I think he'd be a fine neighbor. But think about something else. Even on this forum, George couldn't get any respect. This place... AR15.com... the home of "Good Shoot," "Blade-at-45," and "Draw Down" (TM) stories. He was mocked, derided, called a "fatty dollar cop"... all for the "crime" of not MHOB, and having to defend himself from a budding young thug. People still parrot that "Duuuuhhh... should have stayed in his truck like he was told... Duuhhhh" line, for the simple reason that they're too godda**ed lazy to look at the 911 call transcript. Even on this forum, that's what you're up against. The Joker was right. 
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We have a long way to go in this country to undo the damage the leftist media/education/social justice industry and cabal has inflicted upon us. In the real America under these exact circumstances George and his family would be living exactly the same or better life they were the night of the shooting. No 2.5 million dollar debt.....no threats.....no name recognition.....no drama. Good shoot for all the right reasons. Zimmerman's shoot was 100% righteous. Not 50%... not 75%... 100% He committed no crime, he followed directions, he "observed and reported," he had a known history of selflessly helping out his neighbors, and he involved the police early-on. He did EVERYTHING a good neighbor could reasonably be expected to do. His only fault seems to be that he underestimated the thuggishness/"keepin'-it-realness" of Trayvon, and got ambushed. Trayvon threw the first (and frankly all) the punches. As a result, Zimmerman had to do something nobody ever wants to do. Still, and I've said it over-and-over in these threads, and I'll say it again: I'd live next-door to George Zimmerman any day. I think he'd be a fine neighbor. But think about something else. Even on this forum, George couldn't get any respect. This place... AR15.com... the home of "Good Shoot," "Blade-at-45," and "Draw Down" (TM) stories. He was mocked, derided, called a "fatty dollar cop"... all for the "crime" of not MHOB, and having to defend himself from a budding young thug. People still parrot that "Duuuuhhh... should have stayed in his truck like he was told... Duuhhhh" line, for the simple reason that they're too godda**ed lazy to look at the 911 call transcript. Even on this forum, that's what you're up against. The Joker was right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aZCYnsG--c+1 And the media is doing the same thing to LEO, the very people society pays to try to keep the peace. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/11/2015 11:00:26 AM EDT
[#32]
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I always wondered why Zimmerman didnt fire a few rounds in the air to scare off the attacker? That has to de-escalate all but the most determined assassins. I know if someone fired a round in the air in front of me, my first thought would be the next one won't be in the air, and run as hell. The thugs might be criminal, but they aren't stupid, or completely irrational. That's terrible advice. If you pull a gun, it should be aimed to puts rounds on the target. If you want to learn less-lethal techniques, then learn to fight with your hands. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/11/2015 11:01:26 AM EDT
[#33]
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Zimmerman didn't pull his gun preemtively. He was blindsided, taken to the ground, and was getting pounded from the bottom. At some point in this scuffle his gun was revealed. Trayvon saw the gun and then tried to get the gun. Warning shots are fucking idiotic in the first place, but were utterly impossible in the situation here. Years later and yet a bunch of people STILL do not know even the most basic facts of the case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I always wondered why Zimmerman didnt fire a few rounds in the air to scare off the attacker? That has to de-escalate all but the most determined assassins. I know if someone fired a round in the air in front of me, my first thought would be the next one won't be in the air, and run as hell. The thugs might be criminal, but they aren't stupid, or completely irrational. Zimmerman didn't pull his gun preemtively. He was blindsided, taken to the ground, and was getting pounded from the bottom. At some point in this scuffle his gun was revealed. Trayvon saw the gun and then tried to get the gun. Warning shots are fucking idiotic in the first place, but were utterly impossible in the situation here. Years later and yet a bunch of people STILL do not know even the most basic facts of the case. +1 This ^^^ too. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/11/2015 11:09:46 AM EDT
[#34]
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I bet Darren Wilson is asking himself the same thing. If society makes it impossible for anyone to defend themselves against criminals then it deserves the rapes, robberies and murders. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
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His life was indeed ruined. But wouldn't the alternative been worse? In the moment where he pulled the gun he had no other option. It's the moments prior to that moment where he had options...and where I betcha if he could do it over again he'd do a whole lot of things differently. I've no doubt that thought haunts him. I can picture him lying in bed in the dark, thinking, "Why did I get out of the car?" I bet Darren Wilson is asking himself the same thing. If society makes it impossible for anyone to defend themselves against criminals then it deserves the rapes, robberies and murders. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Agreed. This is what you want, this what you get. |
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Posted: 1/11/2015 11:11:11 AM EDT
[#35]
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I think Massad Ayoob gave one of the best summations of disparity of force I've ever heard in one of his youtube videos. Was a lecture worthy of a law professor on the matter. Zimmerman didn't exercise the stand your ground option. His attorney selected the standard self-defense affirmative defense. I think 99% of CCW licensed folks are walking around with no clue how great the liability they face really is both criminal and civil. Sure, the majority of States now have shall-issue licenses, but most of those States still have statutes and courts that have set a real high bar when it comes to self-defense. The move to get concealed carry more accepted has been great, but it hasn't been followed with the backing good folks needs in terms of strong stand your ground laws. Until we see protections for CCW holders increase it really is a risky thing to carry concealed. Good point, though New Hampshire passed Stand Your Ground in 2010. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/11/2015 11:40:57 AM EDT
[#36]
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Isn't the anti-self defense crowd trying to make submission (for a law-abiding citizen) seem like a better option? If Trayvon had hurt or killed GZ, we would probably never have heard of this case. But because GZ followed the law, and called the police, he is the bad guy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He lived there and Trayvon Martin didn't. And his instincts were proved correct - Trayvon Martin was indeed a shitbird. And the cost for being right was having his life ruined. His life was indeed ruined. But wouldn't the alternative been worse? Isn't the anti-self defense crowd trying to make submission (for a law-abiding citizen) seem like a better option? If Trayvon had hurt or killed GZ, we would probably never have heard of this case. But because GZ followed the law, and called the police, he is the bad guy. If the misunderstanding that GZ wasn't white was corrected, you still probably would have never heard of this. |
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Posted: 1/11/2015 11:48:13 AM EDT
[#37]
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Little help. What does OST mean? Original Sound Track-as in....same shit different day? Old School Tag. Subscribing and bumping a thread at the same time. |
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Posted: 1/11/2015 1:42:21 PM EDT
[#38]
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Even lower than mine. That doesn't happen often.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Mas has a seriously low voice.  Even lower than mine. That doesn't happen often. I met Mas at a conference about 15 years ago. Unless he's changed his ways (and it doesn't sound like he has), he's smoked cigarettes a lot longer than you have. |
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