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Posted: 12/17/2014 5:38:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I doubt Putin will go down without a fight, somewhere, somehow. Wars have been used to keep power in the past.. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 5:54:09 PM EDT
[#2]
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I doubt Putin will go down without a fight, somewhere, somehow. Wars have been used to keep power in the past.. If it's up to the good old Rodina, V.V. is in no danger. He is extremely popular. Now, what the Oligarchs think, that may be another story. Folks aren't going to lose their billions easily, I bet. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 6:19:42 PM EDT
[#3]
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They backed into nothing. They invaded China and were punished. They decided that China was more important than oil imports. And then they thought we lacked the balls to back our shit up. Thats our problem. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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don't corner the bear,crazy ivan and all.they got nutin too lose. They're not suicidal. That's what people thought about the Japanese. After the oil embargo, they were backed into a corner and acted irrationally. They backed into nothing. They invaded China and were punished. They decided that China was more important than oil imports. And then they thought we lacked the balls to back our shit up. Thats our problem. My fear is that we may have the exact same problem with how we are perceived now as then. Putin probably thinks he can get away with a lot of crazy shit with our current leadership. His actions back that up. Where's the limit? |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 6:25:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My fear is that we may have the exact same problem with how we are perceived now as then. Putin probably thinks he can get away with a lot of crazy shit with our current leadership. His actions back that up. Where's the limit? If that is the case then I believe that's due to our financial problems more than our leadership. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 6:48:09 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOuch. That's going to leave a mark. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 7:46:23 PM EDT
[#6]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-2877124/Russian-ruble-way-down.html
They're trying to buy what they can while their money is still worth anything. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 8:25:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it's up to the good old Rodina, V.V. is in no danger. He is extremely popular. Now, what the Oligarchs think, that may be another story. Folks aren't going to lose their billions easily, I bet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I doubt Putin will go down without a fight, somewhere, somehow. Wars have been used to keep power in the past.. If it's up to the good old Rodina, V.V. is in no danger. He is extremely popular. Now, what the Oligarchs think, that may be another story. Folks aren't going to lose their billions easily, I bet. Putin is greater than the all the oligarchs put together, If they don't like it they can GTFO. Seriously this is the Saudis tangling with Vladimir and it wont end well... |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 8:54:47 PM EDT
[#8]
looks like the saudis got their wish
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Posted: 12/17/2014 9:44:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now, what the Oligarchs think, that may be another story. Folks aren't going to lose their billions easily, I bet. I believe you are correct. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 10:11:09 PM EDT
[#10]
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Putin is greater than the all the oligarchs put together, If they don't like it they can GTFO. Seriously this is the Saudis tangling with Vladimir and it wont end well... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I doubt Putin will go down without a fight, somewhere, somehow. Wars have been used to keep power in the past.. If it's up to the good old Rodina, V.V. is in no danger. He is extremely popular. Now, what the Oligarchs think, that may be another story. Folks aren't going to lose their billions easily, I bet. Putin is greater than the all the oligarchs put together, If they don't like it they can GTFO. Seriously this is the Saudis tangling with Vladimir and it wont end well... For 50 million Euros an Oligarch could buy a security team and new Russian leader. The only question is, does one have the balls....striking the king and all. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 11:04:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Maybe Putin will have to give BJ's, HJ's, and ZJ's at the truck stop to fund more of the "help" he is sending to Ukraine.
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Posted: 12/17/2014 11:08:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My fear is that we may have the exact same problem with how we are perceived now as then. Putin probably thinks he can get away with a lot of crazy shit with our current leadership. His actions back that up. Where's the limit? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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don't corner the bear,crazy ivan and all.they got nutin too lose. They're not suicidal. That's what people thought about the Japanese. After the oil embargo, they were backed into a corner and acted irrationally. They backed into nothing. They invaded China and were punished. They decided that China was more important than oil imports. And then they thought we lacked the balls to back our shit up. Thats our problem. My fear is that we may have the exact same problem with how we are perceived now as then. Putin probably thinks he can get away with a lot of crazy shit with our current leadership. His actions back that up. Where's the limit? Well, the President did say something about flexibility. Perhaps the line will be drawn at reverse cow girl. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 1:57:02 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russians don't. I don't think they've ever started a war they actually had the resources to fight. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't buy that for a moment. It wasn't long ago that Russia threw its weight around with parts of Georgia, essentially seeking to seize Ossetian territory much like it is doing with parts of Ukraine today. Bit by bit Russia is seeking to reestablish the Russian empire over eastern Europe. You need money to fight wars. That shit is fucking EX-PEN-SIVE! Russia has mostly stayed out of wars. How many wars have the Russians fought in the last 100 years? 2? And one of those was to repel an invasion. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 1:59:10 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In no particular order, Russo-Japanese war, WWI, Invasion of Finland, Invasion of Poland, WW2, then Afghanistan. Invasion of Georgia. Invasion/partisan shenanigans in Ukraine. Not to mention their participation in the Greek civil war and the Korean war. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You need money to fight wars. That shit is fucking EX-PEN-SIVE! Russia has mostly stayed out of wars. How many wars have the Russians fought in the last 100 years? 2? And one of those was to repel an invasion. In no particular order, Russo-Japanese war, WWI, Invasion of Finland, Invasion of Poland, WW2, then Afghanistan. Invasion of Georgia. Invasion/partisan shenanigans in Ukraine. Not to mention their participation in the Greek civil war and the Korean war. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 2:49:50 AM EDT
[#15]
Well this was predictable, since Russia's economy is based off of fuel exports...
Now here's a bleak prediction for you (unlikely, but bleak just the same): -Obama uses the remainder of his term to continue cutting money to DoD, also generally drives US economy into ground while alienating any former allies. -Russia continues to sink money into having a modernized military while also invading neighboring countries, thus expanding their economy. -US currency ceases to be world's standard currency and US economy falls further. Military and infrastructure spending decreases. -Russia invades enough countries to regain actual superpower status again. -NATO dissolves. -United States stands alone. 
-Small groups of Americans must hide in mountains and fight massive Russian invasion of US. Buy your ammo now, before we get invaded by our future Russian Overlords! |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 2:53:44 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well this was predictable, since Russia's economy is based off of fuel exports... Now here's a bleak prediction for you (unlikely, but bleak just the same): -Obama uses the remainder of his term to continue cutting money to DoD, also generally drives US economy into ground while alienating any former allies. -Russia continues to sink money into having a modernized military while also invading neighboring countries, thus expanding their economy. -US currency ceases to be world's standard currency and US economy falls further. Military and infrastructure spending decreases. -Russia invades enough countries to regain actual superpower status again. -NATO dissolves. -United States stands alone.
-Small groups of Americans must hide in mountains and fight massive Russian invasion of US. Buy your ammo now, before we get invaded by our future Russian Overlords! Kind of hard to expand your military when your money is worthless. If I were Russia I would e very afraid of China's intentions when it comes to the Sino. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:08:33 AM EDT
[#17]
As a man stationed in Moscow who is paid in dollars, I love it. When I got here the Ruble was 33 to the dollar. Yesterday it closed at 86 to the dollar.
A cup of coffee was 150 Rubles/5$ and today it is 2$. While it is a good thing for me, it is hard to watch my coworkers lose half their salary in a few days time. Half their savings, half the value of their home, half the value of their currency to buy bread with. It is projected to rise above 100 to the dollar by the new year, then the prices of all goods will double. Which is a double whammy. Your money is half as valuable and everything cost twice as much. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:20:11 AM EDT
[#18]
When is the time to BUY Rubles ?
What is the likely response to the devaluation? Will the treasury, or central bank hyperinflate? Is it likely, or possible that the current Ruble is intentionally allowed to self destruct, to be replaced by a GOLD Ruble in near future? Another posibility to consider is the rollout of a Gold backed common currency, Brazil, Russia,India, and China roll out....... are you ready for this?........ the GOLD BRIC.....
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Posted: 12/18/2014 6:22:28 AM EDT
[#19]
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For 50 million Euros an Oligarch could buy a security team and new Russian leader. The only question is, does one have the balls....striking the king and all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I doubt Putin will go down without a fight, somewhere, somehow. Wars have been used to keep power in the past.. If it's up to the good old Rodina, V.V. is in no danger. He is extremely popular. Now, what the Oligarchs think, that may be another story. Folks aren't going to lose their billions easily, I bet. Putin is greater than the all the oligarchs put together, If they don't like it they can GTFO. Seriously this is the Saudis tangling with Vladimir and it wont end well... For 50 million Euros an Oligarch could buy a security team and new Russian leader. The only question is, does one have the balls....striking the king and all. Putin has been planning for that day for the last 20 years. Putin has a file on every rich person in Russia, one wrong move and a "crime" is uncovered complete with witness's and physical proof. Only an internal coup by some one very close could work, or an out of the blue highly complex assassination. Every phone call is listened to, every email is read, every oligarch has an informant or two in his inner circle, every company has been infiltrated. The media in Russia supports the cult of personality, reporters who get confused about what country they are in get shot in the head, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Khodorkovsky In February 2003, at a televised meeting at the Kremlin, Khodorkovsky argued with Putin about corruption. He implied that major government officials were accepting millions in bribes. In early July 2003, Platon Lebedev, Khodorkovsky's partner and fourth largest shareholder in Yukos, was arrested on suspicion of illegally acquiring a stake in state-owned fertilizer firm Apatit in 1994. The arrest was followed by investigations into taxation returns filed by Yukos, and a delay to the antitrust commission's approval for its merger with Sibneft. Khodorkovsky was himself arrested in October 2003, charged with fraud and tax evasion. The Russian Prosecutor General's Office said that Khodorkovsky and his associates cost the state more than $1 billion in lost revenues On 20 December 2013, Putin signed a pardon freeing Khodorkovsky.[24] Following his release, Khodorkovsky addressed the media at a news conference in Berlin, Germany. He referred to himself as a "political prisoner", and stated he would not re-enter business or politics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Anna_Politkovskaya#Assassination |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 6:36:42 AM EDT
[#20]
Russians, en masse, are trading their rubles for America dollars. You can't make this up. LMAO
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Posted: 12/18/2014 6:39:45 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I doubt Putin will go down without a fight, somewhere, somehow. Wars have been used to keep power in the past.. Putin doesn't have much time left. Rumors has it he have terminal cancer. He might not last for a few more months. Putin came to power after the Russia economy collapsed in 1998. He will leave office with a collapsed Russian economy. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 7:46:39 AM EDT
[#22]
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/belarussian-president-demands-russia-trade-be-carried-out-in-dollars-euros/513568.html
Belarus making demands of Russia? |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 7:51:42 AM EDT
[#23]
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I've been reassured that it will all turn around in January. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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"Pesident Vladimir Putin has already ordered government departments to cut their budgets by 5%, and more cuts could follow. Defense and national security has so far been spared the ax -- Russia is pumping trillions of rubles into modernizing its military." So in times of economic uncertainty the Russians do the opposite of us, that's comforting. So our budget just passed. How much did Our politicians cut it??  I've been reassured that it will all turn around in January. Not so sure I believe that. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 7:55:30 AM EDT
[#24]
Well Putin just swore this was all temporary and will last just a year or two so the Russians have nothing to worry about.
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Posted: 12/18/2014 10:00:34 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Putin doesn't have much time left. Rumors has it he have terminal cancer. He might not last for a few more months. Putin came to power after the Russia economy collapsed in 1998. He will leave office with a collapsed Russian economy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I doubt Putin will go down without a fight, somewhere, somehow. Wars have been used to keep power in the past.. Putin doesn't have much time left. Rumors has it he have terminal cancer. He might not last for a few more months. Putin came to power after the Russia economy collapsed in 1998. He will leave office with a collapsed Russian economy. What? Really? |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 10:09:44 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...Putin has been planning for that day for the last 20 years. Putin has a file on every rich person in Russia, one wrong move and a "crime" is uncovered complete with witness's and physical proof. Only an internal coup by some one very close could work, or an out of the blue highly complex assassination. Every phone call is listened to, every email is read, every oligarch has an informant or two in his inner circle, every company has been infiltrated. The media in Russia supports the cult of personality, reporters who get confused about what country they are in get shot in the head... *shrug* Just saying. While Ivan Six-Pack may love V.V. unconditionally, the Oligarchs will see things a bit different I bet. Once you have a few billion, and said few billion get threatened, I bet the defensive instincts get pretty strong. And when all your billionaire buddies are similarly threatened, well, stuff can happen. They didn't get to where they are by being stupid or frightened. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 10:24:58 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
*shrug* Just saying. While Ivan Six-Pack may love V.V. unconditionally, the Oligarchs will see things a bit different I bet. Once you have a few billion, and said few billion get threatened, I bet the defensive instincts get pretty strong. And when all your billionaire buddies are similarly threatened, well, stuff can happen. They didn't get to where they are by being stupid or frightened. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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...Putin has been planning for that day for the last 20 years. Putin has a file on every rich person in Russia, one wrong move and a "crime" is uncovered complete with witness's and physical proof. Only an internal coup by some one very close could work, or an out of the blue highly complex assassination. Every phone call is listened to, every email is read, every oligarch has an informant or two in his inner circle, every company has been infiltrated. The media in Russia supports the cult of personality, reporters who get confused about what country they are in get shot in the head... *shrug* Just saying. While Ivan Six-Pack may love V.V. unconditionally, the Oligarchs will see things a bit different I bet. Once you have a few billion, and said few billion get threatened, I bet the defensive instincts get pretty strong. And when all your billionaire buddies are similarly threatened, well, stuff can happen. They didn't get to where they are by being stupid or frightened. I would assume there are true believers in the FSB. At the first sign of trouble they (billionaires) will be disappeared; everything is under surveillance. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 10:31:35 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/belarussian-president-demands-russia-trade-be-carried-out-in-dollars-euros/513568.html Belarus making demands of Russia? Lukašenko doesn't like or trust Putin. He hates having to be the junior partner and has always been worried that the day will come when he gets replaced,a fear made more realistic by Putin biting off Crimea and chewing on Novorossiya. Of course he wants hard currency,the amount of trade between Poland and Belarus has quintupled in the past 5 years and Polish and EU goods sure can't be purchased if/when the RUB hits 100:1. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 10:41:41 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lukašenko doesn't like or trust Putin. He hates having to be the junior partner and has always been worried that the day will come when he gets replaced,a fear made more realistic by Putin biting off Crimea and chewing on Novorossiya. Of course he wants hard currency,the amount of trade between Poland and Belarus has quintupled in the past 5 years and Polish and EU goods sure can't be purchased if/when the RUB hits 100:1. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/belarussian-president-demands-russia-trade-be-carried-out-in-dollars-euros/513568.html Belarus making demands of Russia? Lukašenko doesn't like or trust Putin. He hates having to be the junior partner and has always been worried that the day will come when he gets replaced,a fear made more realistic by Putin biting off Crimea and chewing on Novorossiya. Of course he wants hard currency,the amount of trade between Poland and Belarus has quintupled in the past 5 years and Polish and EU goods sure can't be purchased if/when the RUB hits 100:1. former pig farm manager vs former KGB Lt Col I understand why he feels like the junior partner 
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Posted: 12/18/2014 10:52:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
*shrug* Just saying. While Ivan Six-Pack may love V.V. unconditionally, the Oligarchs will see things a bit different I bet. Once you have a few billion, and said few billion get threatened, I bet the defensive instincts get pretty strong. And when all your billionaire buddies are similarly threatened, well, stuff can happen. They didn't get to where they are by being stupid or frightened. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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...Putin has been planning for that day for the last 20 years. Putin has a file on every rich person in Russia, one wrong move and a "crime" is uncovered complete with witness's and physical proof. Only an internal coup by some one very close could work, or an out of the blue highly complex assassination. Every phone call is listened to, every email is read, every oligarch has an informant or two in his inner circle, every company has been infiltrated. The media in Russia supports the cult of personality, reporters who get confused about what country they are in get shot in the head... *shrug* Just saying. While Ivan Six-Pack may love V.V. unconditionally, the Oligarchs will see things a bit different I bet. Once you have a few billion, and said few billion get threatened, I bet the defensive instincts get pretty strong. And when all your billionaire buddies are similarly threatened, well, stuff can happen. They didn't get to where they are by being stupid or frightened. The idea that some of them may simply say "fuck it,I'm out" and decide to take their remaining billions to London,Monaco and Dubai is a very real concern of Putin's. I think massive capital flight scares him more than any coup attempt . The oligarchs are smart but generally aren't muscle men;that's why they have had this symbiotic relationship with Putin: they're the brains,he's the brawn. They get rich,he gets rich...but the difference is he has guys who don't mind brewing up Polonium tea. They are incredibly wealthy but don't have a state security apparatus behind them.* Putin also did a mastery of playing these guys off against each other so that they would not collude but behave as rivals. I won't be surprised to see a couple chickens killed to scare the monkeys soon: arrest a couple guys,charge them with fraud and sedition. *there's a reason they have ex-SAS/SASR bodyguards rather than ex-FSB. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 10:53:54 AM EDT
[#31]
I was reading how Russian citizens are dumping their rubles for tangibles. Watch the Russian people. They survived the death of the Soviet rubles. They're survivors.
Russian billionaires are trying to move their money to Switzerland. The Swiss in response just announced NIRP. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:01:00 AM EDT
[#32]
That will still be attractive to some: pay the Swiss a portion or keep it in Russia and lose it all.
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:05:11 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That will still be attractive to some: pay the Swiss a portion or keep it in Russia and lose it all. Compared to the Ruble, many nations' currencies are safe havens. What's the advantage for a Russian to buy Swiss bonds instead of US, Brit, EU, etc? |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:10:12 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As a man stationed in Moscow who is paid in dollars, I love it. When I got here the Ruble was 33 to the dollar. Yesterday it closed at 86 to the dollar. A cup of coffee was 150 Rubles/5$ and today it is 2$. While it is a good thing for me, it is hard to watch my coworkers lose half their salary in a few days time. Half their savings, half the value of their home, half the value of their currency to buy bread with. It is projected to rise above 100 to the dollar by the new year, then the prices of all goods will double. Which is a double whammy. Your money is half as valuable and everything cost twice as much. Can you provide some feedback on how things are 'on the street' with the average Russian citizen there? Lots of people buying stuff? Grocery stores emptying out? Panic? |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:13:08 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was reading how Russian citizens are dumping their rubles for tangibles. Watch the Russian people. They survived the death of the Soviet rubles. They're survivors. Russian billionaires are trying to move their money to Switzerland. The Swiss in response just announced NIRP. Yep, you know when they announce something like this that billions have already made their way there or are in the process of being moved now. Seriously bad news for Russia right now. This is a good example of what can happen when your currency is backed by a commodity. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:13:45 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Compared to the Ruble, many nations' currencies are safe havens. What's the advantage for a Russian to buy Swiss bonds instead of US, Brit, EU, etc? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That will still be attractive to some: pay the Swiss a portion or keep it in Russia and lose it all. Compared to the Ruble, many nations' currencies are safe havens. What's the advantage for a Russian to buy Swiss bonds instead of US, Brit, EU, etc? Because the swiss are less likely to freeze or confiscate the money. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:23:34 AM EDT
[#37]
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Because the swiss are less likely to freeze or confiscate the money. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That will still be attractive to some: pay the Swiss a portion or keep it in Russia and lose it all. Compared to the Ruble, many nations' currencies are safe havens. What's the advantage for a Russian to buy Swiss bonds instead of US, Brit, EU, etc? Because the swiss are less likely to freeze or confiscate the money. My understanding of bonds is that freezing isn't a thing. You buy the bond, it'll be repaid in X months. I guess it's possible that the nation could refuse to repay bonds to certain people, but that sounds like a bad idea. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:28:25 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My understanding of bonds is that freezing isn't a thing. You buy the bond, it'll be repaid in X months. I guess it's possible that the nation could refuse to repay bonds to certain people, but that sounds like a bad idea. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That will still be attractive to some: pay the Swiss a portion or keep it in Russia and lose it all. Compared to the Ruble, many nations' currencies are safe havens. What's the advantage for a Russian to buy Swiss bonds instead of US, Brit, EU, etc? Because the swiss are less likely to freeze or confiscate the money. My understanding of bonds is that freezing isn't a thing. You buy the bond, it'll be repaid in X months. I guess it's possible that the nation could refuse to repay bonds to certain people, but that sounds like a bad idea. Pretty sure the US seized Iranian bond holdings after the whole embassy thingee. Though the Swiss HAVE buckled under pressure, so it's not like they are a sure thing. Still, I would imagine American policy makers aren't so retarded that they would want to make it hard for the Oligarchs to haul ass out of Russia. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:31:08 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been watching this about as closely as I've been watching the price of crude drop. When you get right down to it, with the sanctions we've imposed on Russia (along with the EU), what other major economic power is left for them to do seriousl business with? China's really the only answer I can come up with and they still don't get along that great, and besides China is still engaged in massive business with us so why would they? Even if Russia managed to secure major trade agreements with every single other nation in the world that wasn't the U.S. or the EU, it still can't really compare. Pretty sad really because it illustrates just how worthless many of these nations' economies really are. And too, one last comment, I swear you could be a high school dropout and get a decent job working as a "market expert" writing commentary on all this. I saw an article just this morning stating that Russia may start selling off its gold reserves. WTF? Seriously? Has this idiot even done any research because if they had they'd know that Russia has been buying gold, not selling it. The Chinese economy is grinding to a halt. There will be an economic depression in China next year. It is the collapse of the Chinese economy that is causing the lower oil demand, thus the lower oil prices. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:35:38 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty sure the US seized Iranian bond holdings after the whole embassy thingee. Though the Swiss HAVE buckled under pressure, so it's not like they are a sure thing. Still, I would imagine American policy makers aren't so retarded that they would want to make it hard for the Oligarchs to haul ass out of Russia. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Because the swiss are less likely to freeze or confiscate the money. My understanding of bonds is that freezing isn't a thing. You buy the bond, it'll be repaid in X months. I guess it's possible that the nation could refuse to repay bonds to certain people, but that sounds like a bad idea. Pretty sure the US seized Iranian bond holdings after the whole embassy thingee. Though the Swiss HAVE buckled under pressure, so it's not like they are a sure thing. Still, I would imagine American policy makers aren't so retarded that they would want to make it hard for the Oligarchs to haul ass out of Russia. Googling to find that incident. Having trouble finding anything. Do you have more details? |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:37:20 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Chinese economy is grinding to a halt. There will be an economic depression in China next year. It is the collapse of the Chinese economy that is causing the lower oil demand, thus the lower oil prices. Interesting, I wasn't aware much on the Chinese economy. Got any links to good info about it? |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:40:08 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting, I wasn't aware much on the Chinese economy. Got any links to good info about it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Chinese economy is grinding to a halt. There will be an economic depression in China next year. It is the collapse of the Chinese economy that is causing the lower oil demand, thus the lower oil prices. Interesting, I wasn't aware much on the Chinese economy. Got any links to good info about it? There are plenty of examples. Just google it. Some have forbes and bloomberg on it. The Saudis did not cut production to match the decrease in energy demand from China, thus the market is glutted. Also, Europe and the US have had a mild winter up to this point. https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=chinese+economy+slow+down&oq=chinese+economy+slow+down&gs_l=hp.3..0j0i22i30l7.1411.5041.0.5309.28.22.0.0.0.0.288.3010.0j10j6.16.0.ehm_lang...0...1.1.60.hp..13.15.2843.0.I15xcvVWhh0 Thus what you are seeing in Russia is a symptom of a slowing Chinese economy! |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:43:29 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Googling to find that incident. Having trouble finding anything. Do you have more details? Guessing you mean the Swiss? 
Stuff like this has been going on for a while: http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/05/news/companies/swiss-secrecy-banks/index.html It's not quite the well-run tower of anonymity anymore. Still probably well-run, though. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:51:55 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Guessing you mean the Swiss?
Stuff like this has been going on for a while: http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/05/news/companies/swiss-secrecy-banks/index.html It's not quite the well-run tower of anonymity anymore. Still probably well-run, though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Googling to find that incident. Having trouble finding anything. Do you have more details? Guessing you mean the Swiss?
Stuff like this has been going on for a while: http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/05/news/companies/swiss-secrecy-banks/index.html It's not quite the well-run tower of anonymity anymore. Still probably well-run, though. Haha, no, the seizing of Iranian-held US bonds. I'm aware that their banking system is famous for secrecy. 
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:08:10 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That will still be attractive to some: pay the Swiss a portion or keep it in Russia and lose it all. Bingo. You can price the loss for the Swiss. This also further justifies my conspiracy theory that the recent massive gold purchasing by the Russian Central bank was a massive money laundering scheme. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:25:02 PM EDT
[#46]
I have every reason to believe you're right regarding gold purchasing.
The only real question as to when the brakes are applied to this will be: when do the Saudis stop pumping? I think that as long as Russia continues to help make their neighborhood shitty they'll keep going. I was actually thinking that the big slide wouldn't happen for another few months but it's looking like those predictions of %a 4-4.5 contraction of their economy might be optimistic. How long will Russian be willing to back up "we've suffered before,we'll suffer again"? Making a run on Swedish press board furniture isn't speaking volumes of confidence and the real pains of healthcare being slashed etc haven't even remotely began to be felt. The lack of success in Novorossiya must be mentioned too,at some point they may be forced to go all in for pride or give up the adventure out of necessity. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:26:24 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have every reason to believe you're right regarding gold purchasing. The only real question as to when the brakes are applied to this will be: when do the Saudis stop pumping? I think that as long as Russia continues to help make their neighborhood shitty they'll keep going. I was actually thinking that the big slide wouldn't happen for another few months but it's looking like those predictions of %a 4-4.5 contraction of their economy might be optimistic. How long will Russian be willing to back up "we've suffered before,we'll suffer again"? Making a run on Swedish press board furniture isn't speaking volumes of confidence and the real pains of healthcare being slashed etc haven't even remotely began to be felt. The lack of success in Novorossiya must be mentioned too,at some point they may be forced to go all in for pride or give up the adventure out of necessity. Saudis will pump till Iran says uncle. And they won't. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:34:22 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Saudis will pump till Iran says uncle. And they won't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have every reason to believe you're right regarding gold purchasing. The only real question as to when the brakes are applied to this will be: when do the Saudis stop pumping? I think that as long as Russia continues to help make their neighborhood shitty they'll keep going. I was actually thinking that the big slide wouldn't happen for another few months but it's looking like those predictions of %a 4-4.5 contraction of their economy might be optimistic. How long will Russian be willing to back up "we've suffered before,we'll suffer again"? Making a run on Swedish press board furniture isn't speaking volumes of confidence and the real pains of healthcare being slashed etc haven't even remotely began to be felt. The lack of success in Novorossiya must be mentioned too,at some point they may be forced to go all in for pride or give up the adventure out of necessity. Saudis will pump till Iran says uncle. And they won't. The Saudis are fighting a three front war against Iranian proxies on their borders. They are in it to win it. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:49:58 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a man stationed in Moscow who is paid in dollars, I love it. When I got here the Ruble was 33 to the dollar. Yesterday it closed at 86 to the dollar. A cup of coffee was 150 Rubles/5$ and today it is 2$. While it is a good thing for me, it is hard to watch my coworkers lose half their salary in a few days time. Half their savings, half the value of their home, half the value of their currency to buy bread with. It is projected to rise above 100 to the dollar by the new year, then the prices of all goods will double. Which is a double whammy. Your money is half as valuable and everything cost twice as much. So last week a HJ from an ugly Russian woman was $20. Today, that same $20 gets three smokin hot Russian 18 year-olds for a whole weekend of fun. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:56:46 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Saudis are fighting a three front war against Iranian proxies on their borders. They are in it to win it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have every reason to believe you're right regarding gold purchasing. The only real question as to when the brakes are applied to this will be: when do the Saudis stop pumping? I think that as long as Russia continues to help make their neighborhood shitty they'll keep going. I was actually thinking that the big slide wouldn't happen for another few months but it's looking like those predictions of %a 4-4.5 contraction of their economy might be optimistic. How long will Russian be willing to back up "we've suffered before,we'll suffer again"? Making a run on Swedish press board furniture isn't speaking volumes of confidence and the real pains of healthcare being slashed etc haven't even remotely began to be felt. The lack of success in Novorossiya must be mentioned too,at some point they may be forced to go all in for pride or give up the adventure out of necessity. Saudis will pump till Iran says uncle. And they won't. The Saudis are fighting a three front war against Iranian proxies on their borders. They are in it to win it. 
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