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Posted: 12/17/2014 11:58:32 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mostly saw the Talibs with 82mm mortars, atleast thats the largest number of rounds we found. <a href="http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/Aeain/media/DSC00212_zps78d03ec5.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b608/Aeain/DSC00212_zps78d03ec5.jpg</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I like the bigger-is-better-bring-back-battleships line of thinking where NLOS/IDF weapons are concerned. Bigger boom betterest. 
Also I figured the Taliban would be using the bigger stuff. Mostly saw the Talibs with 82mm mortars, atleast thats the largest number of rounds we found. <a href="http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/Aeain/media/DSC00212_zps78d03ec5.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b608/Aeain/DSC00212_zps78d03ec5.jpg</a> I bet every one of those was destin for the px or dfac on the days we came back in for refit. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 12:01:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As does an issue M4 with M855. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What I am disputing is his 5 round string claim. 5.56 AR heats up faster than as 7.62 AK. During a 5 round stringfrom cold bore, the AK will not widen out 2-3". It starts there. As does an issue M4 with M855. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 12:03:56 PM EDT
[#3]
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Except the M4 stays there... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What I am disputing is his 5 round string claim. 5.56 AR heats up faster than as 7.62 AK. During a 5 round stringfrom cold bore, the AK will not widen out 2-3". It starts there. As does an issue M4 with M855. 
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Posted: 12/17/2014 12:08:41 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet every one of those was destin for the px or dfac on the days we came back in for refit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I like the bigger-is-better-bring-back-battleships line of thinking where NLOS/IDF weapons are concerned. Bigger boom betterest.
Also I figured the Taliban would be using the bigger stuff. Mostly saw the Talibs with 82mm mortars, atleast thats the largest number of rounds we found. <a href="http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/Aeain/media/DSC00212_zps78d03ec5.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b608/Aeain/DSC00212_zps78d03ec5.jpg</a> I bet every one of those was destin for the px or dfac on the days we came back in for refit. Maybe. Found these in 2009 around the area where Extortion 17 was shot down 2 years later |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 12:11:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been known to eat a quality cut steak cooked blue, prefer medium rare for the lower quality cuts. If a steak has to be cooked well done it's a shitty steak.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I wonder how both camps feel about cast iron an non stick. Don't really care one way or the other so long as the user cooks his food completely and it tastes good to them. Or whether they like AKs or ARs. That is called appreciating someone's freedom to make their own choices and opinions.  LOL you like well done meat, now the picture is coming into focus Well cooked meat keeps you from getting wormy. It is obvious you like it raw.... I've been known to eat a quality cut steak cooked blue, prefer medium rare for the lower quality cuts. If a steak has to be cooked well done it's a shitty steak. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 12:13:38 PM EDT
[#6]
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I hope you are trying to be funny.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Frequently I hear people on the internet say that AR15s break all the time because of the clips. Ugh, I mean the gun has a forward assist because of all the malfunctions it has, what a joke. After a lot of research, there's enough proof out there for me to decide which platform is best for militia use with my fellow oath keepers. Rattling plasticky guns that can't survive combat are not what a citizen warrior should use. Our colonels agreed and now we all use AKs. Crappy stoner rifles are toys for gun gamers and gecko-loving mall ninjas. Kalashnikovs are for true infantrymen. I hope you are trying to be funny.... Obvious satire is obvious. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 12:24:38 PM EDT
[#7]
i'll be honest, it's a communist born weapon and used by our enemies to kill our servicemen. it's really that simple for me. to each their own, they work and are very poplar in the shooting communities, just not for me
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Posted: 12/17/2014 12:35:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i'll be honest, it's a communist born weapon and used by our enemies to kill our servicemen. it's really that simple for me. to each their own, they work and are very poplar in the shooting communities, just not for me Post and avatar do not match sentiments with one another |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 6:14:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know that I prefer an M14 platform 
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Posted: 12/17/2014 6:27:18 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Using them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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When YOUR failure rate is 87x higher than everyone else's where does the problem lie? Using them. 
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Posted: 12/17/2014 6:34:21 PM EDT
[#11]
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Yeah totally original thread I know but humor me.....Why do some of you hate the AK? I am Czech. AK is Russian. Thats enough. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 6:35:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am Czech. AK is Russian. Thats enough. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yeah totally original thread I know but humor me.....Why do some of you hate the AK? I am Czech. AK is Russian. Thats enough. Neither one of my AK's is Russian. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 6:50:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Neither one of my AK's is Russian. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yeah totally original thread I know but humor me.....Why do some of you hate the AK? I am Czech. AK is Russian. Thats enough. Neither one of my AK's is Russian. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 7:03:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Except the M4 stays there... What's the farthest you've ever shot an AR (accurately)? |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 7:13:52 PM EDT
[#15]
The sort of dick-waving contests like these that the carbine crowd get into make me glad I stick to actual rifle calibers.
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Posted: 12/17/2014 7:13:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL out of steam then? What's the farthest you've ever shot an AR (accurately)? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Except the M4 stays there...
What's the farthest you've ever shot an AR (accurately)? About 350 with a Hubble sized scope
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Posted: 12/17/2014 7:28:04 PM EDT
[#17]
New member to this forum but not new to ak's . Ak-47 and Akm type weapons are late 1940's tech. The only thing i can say is the ak family of weapons are effective when zeroed and depending on country of origin and build quality i have a Romanian WASR-10/63 Underfolder with Wolf/Tula ammo that shoots like a milled Ak or a 5.56mm galil rifle. Its laser accurate like 1-2 inchs at 100 yards. I think someone should modernize the 7.62*39mm and 7.62*54R Rounds they are effective rounds.
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Posted: 12/17/2014 7:37:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: New member to this forum but not new to ak's . Ak-47 and Akm type weapons are late 1940's tech. The only thing i can say is the ak family of weapons are effective when zeroed and depending on country of origin and build quality i have a Romanian WASR-10/63 Underfolder with Wolf/Tula ammo that shoots like a milled Ak or a 5.56mm galil rifle. Its laser accurate like 1-2 inchs at 100 yards. I think someone should modernize the 7.62*39mm and 7.62*54R Rounds they are effective rounds. Welcome to the forum!
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Posted: 12/17/2014 9:20:32 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am skeptical of your findings, and would welcome the opportunity to examine your data.Welcome to the forum! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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New member to this forum but not new to ak's . Ak-47 and Akm type weapons are late 1940's tech. The only thing i can say is the ak family of weapons are effective when zeroed and depending on country of origin and build quality i have a Romanian WASR-10/63 Underfolder with Wolf/Tula ammo that shoots like a milled Ak or a 5.56mm galil rifle. Its laser accurate like 1-2 inchs at 100 yards. I think someone should modernize the 7.62*39mm and 7.62*54R Rounds they are effective rounds. Isn't one, three shot group good enough? 
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Posted: 12/17/2014 9:50:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The sort of dick-waving contests like these that the carbine crowd get into make me glad I stick to actual rifle calibers.  6.5 mm or larger at minimum 2600 fps muzzle velocity or faster, or stay off the rifle range where the SERIOUS shooters go! 
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Posted: 12/17/2014 9:55:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i'll be honest, it's a communist born weapon and used by our enemies to kill our servicemen. it's really that simple for me. to each their own, they work and are very poplar in the shooting communities, just not for me Well...think of it like this- There are stories German soldiers in World War 2 liked to use captured M1 Carbines. Given a choice of using a K98 or an M1 Carbine for fighting in hedgerows or urban settings, I'd agree with them. If your enemy makes something useful, there's no reason to discard it just because you don't like them, or what they stand for. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 10:11:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know you think you're doing the internet a favor by greybearding, and that you might be the second coming of gun Jesus because you M1A and teach NRA... You're pretty much out of your league in this thread, which is fine there's sub forums that will provide safe harbor for you to echo chamber in. The best part is, I'm not saying anything different than a lot of other posters in here, gonna get crushes on them too?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I know that I prefer an M14 platform over the AK or AR though I have shot both extensively, own both, and trained others to shoot them in NRA programs such as Women on Target and Individual instruction. Ahh, so you're an NRA instructor who likes America's worst service rifle. I also know that others are entitled to their opinions and shouldn't be ridiculed by some gunshop commando who thinks he is the internet guru of all gun threads. Awwww.... good thing I'm not a gunshop commando. Now lay out your overwhelming ego and experience and split times for all to see to convince all others you are the gun fighting pro of all time! http://www.officialmilitaryribbons.com/images/military_ribbon_products_207x56/combat-action-bumpersticker-0.jpg Well, maybe not a gun fighting pro of all time, but I was paid professionally to train and fight with guns. I also ran classes and private training when I go out, although it wasn't NRA so I could actually teach people modern up to date stuff. Your arguments always end up with you comparing yourself to others to prove how right you are as evidenced by your statement enlarged and highlighted in blue above. Yes, it does. It's also the same reason I compete in shooting, so I can see how well my skills stack against other peoples. Then people like you come along, and get screaming butt hurt. It's pretty common. You obviously try to put put others down to make yourself feel good. No, I train, practice, meet, shoot with, and generally do everything I can to be the best at everything I do including shooting. It is pathetic. No, not really. Maybe to you, but that doesn't matter. People make their choices and their decisions. They may be good decisions and they may be happy with them or unhappy. They may take advice of others or not. So what if their opinion is different than yours? Then it makes for threads like this. I know you think you're doing the internet a favor by greybearding, and that you might be the second coming of gun Jesus because you M1A and teach NRA... You're pretty much out of your league in this thread, which is fine there's sub forums that will provide safe harbor for you to echo chamber in. The best part is, I'm not saying anything different than a lot of other posters in here, gonna get crushes on them too?
Did you just award your post a CAR? Are you one of those guys that drives around with a big, giant CAR on the back window of his POV too? 
Dude, just stop. It's the internet. The man is entitled to his opinion, regardless of whether you've been downrange or not. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 10:23:52 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am skeptical of your findings, and would welcome the opportunity to examine your data.Welcome to the forum! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
New member to this forum but not new to ak's . Ak-47 and Akm type weapons are late 1940's tech. The only thing i can say is the ak family of weapons are effective when zeroed and depending on country of origin and build quality i have a Romanian WASR-10/63 Underfolder with Wolf/Tula ammo that shoots like a milled Ak or a 5.56mm galil rifle. Its laser accurate like 1-2 inchs at 100 yards. I think someone should modernize the 7.62*39mm and 7.62*54R Rounds they are effective rounds. I know i am not the only one here that has an ak that is dead on and my yugo M70 with RPK Receiver does the same thing gonna still say its more accurate then one would expect an ak to be. with a new barrel and new built parts from my personal experience a Akm Can more then accurate. My UFWASR with new chrome-lined barrel and sighted in is my most accurate. 1-2 MOA doesn't shoot 1-2 moa all day but it has. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 10:48:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you just award your post a CAR? Are you one of those guys that drives around with a big, giant CAR on the back window of his POV too? Dude, just stop. It's the internet. The man is entitled to his opinion, regardless of whether you've been downrange or not. Only thing on my car is a little EGA to avoid speeding tickets. If you're going to tell me to stop, are you going to tell everyone else here as well? |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:22:04 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you just award your post a CAR? Are you one of those guys that drives around with a big, giant CAR on the back window of his POV too?
Dude, just stop. It's the internet. The man is entitled to his opinion, regardless of whether you've been downrange or not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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I know that I prefer an M14 platform over the AK or AR though I have shot both extensively, own both, and trained others to shoot them in NRA programs such as Women on Target and Individual instruction. Ahh, so you're an NRA instructor who likes America's worst service rifle. I also know that others are entitled to their opinions and shouldn't be ridiculed by some gunshop commando who thinks he is the internet guru of all gun threads. Awwww.... good thing I'm not a gunshop commando. Now lay out your overwhelming ego and experience and split times for all to see to convince all others you are the gun fighting pro of all time! http://www.officialmilitaryribbons.com/images/military_ribbon_products_207x56/combat-action-bumpersticker-0.jpg Well, maybe not a gun fighting pro of all time, but I was paid professionally to train and fight with guns. I also ran classes and private training when I go out, although it wasn't NRA so I could actually teach people modern up to date stuff. Your arguments always end up with you comparing yourself to others to prove how right you are as evidenced by your statement enlarged and highlighted in blue above. Yes, it does. It's also the same reason I compete in shooting, so I can see how well my skills stack against other peoples. Then people like you come along, and get screaming butt hurt. It's pretty common. You obviously try to put put others down to make yourself feel good. No, I train, practice, meet, shoot with, and generally do everything I can to be the best at everything I do including shooting. It is pathetic. No, not really. Maybe to you, but that doesn't matter. People make their choices and their decisions. They may be good decisions and they may be happy with them or unhappy. They may take advice of others or not. So what if their opinion is different than yours? Then it makes for threads like this. I know you think you're doing the internet a favor by greybearding, and that you might be the second coming of gun Jesus because you M1A and teach NRA... You're pretty much out of your league in this thread, which is fine there's sub forums that will provide safe harbor for you to echo chamber in. The best part is, I'm not saying anything different than a lot of other posters in here, gonna get crushes on them too?
Did you just award your post a CAR? Are you one of those guys that drives around with a big, giant CAR on the back window of his POV too?
Dude, just stop. It's the internet. The man is entitled to his opinion, regardless of whether you've been downrange or not. He can't stop. He is always telling others they make bad choices if they don't agree with him. Then he pulls his veterans card and gun shop experience to try to prove his opinion is better than anyone else's. He makes false statements about others that he really thinks about himself. See the highlights in blue. I've seen it repeatedly in one thread after another. It is getting pathetic. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:31:10 AM EDT
[#26]
Yay! The hate continues...
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:41:50 AM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:45:32 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: snip He can't stop. He is always telling others they make bad choices if they don't agree with him. Then he pulls his veterans card and gun shop experience to try to prove his opinion is better than anyone else's. He makes false statements about others that he really thinks about himself. See the highlights in blue. I've seen it repeatedly in one thread after another. It is getting pathetic. The best part is... all the threads you mention are joke threads, and everyone else is in on it. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:54:48 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So put me on ignore and stop chasing me around threads ankle biting. The best part is... all the threads you mention are joke threads, and everyone else is in on it.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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snip He can't stop. He is always telling others they make bad choices if they don't agree with him. Then he pulls his veterans card and gun shop experience to try to prove his opinion is better than anyone else's. He makes false statements about others that he really thinks about himself. See the highlights in blue. I've seen it repeatedly in one thread after another. It is getting pathetic. The best part is... all the threads you mention are joke threads, and everyone else is in on it.
No, I'm not chasing you around. You are in ALL these type threads. From the shotgun vs AR for home protection to this thread. You have no respect for other's opnions if they differ from yours. You say you are an instructor? Most instructors know that some people you will not reach, especially by putting down their opinions and alienating them. You go on and help those you can. Not you. You precede to tell people they don't know jack shit and then hype yourself up by putting them down. Get a life outside of the internet. I understand if you are laid up and need some diversion. Only too well or I wouldn't be wasting my time here or on your pathetic egocentric posts.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:55:17 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I can't add an IR illuminator, laser, or NV/thermal optic to an AK? Did they stop producing picatinny rails and handguards for them now or what? LOL Quote HistoryQuoted:
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OK. We get it. You have a boner for tacticalling the fuck out of your fancy AR and using high dollar night vision and IR equipment that the average person throughout the world has no use for, no knowledge of, or no money to play with. The typical shooter doesn't need that shit. "Not being able to afford" and "not benefiting from" are not the same thing. You're vastly uninformed, or never intend to use your firearms for anything if you think night vision is just a toy. So I can't add an IR illuminator, laser, or NV/thermal optic to an AK? Did they stop producing picatinny rails and handguards for them now or what? LOL Bahiyaa has one on hers!  the chick not the weapon!
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:56:35 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fixed. Quote History
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:56:36 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryYes, Madcap 72 does it in thread after thread.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:08:40 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: snip No, I'm not chasing you around. You are in ALL these type threads. From the shotgun vs AR for home protection to this thread. You are correct, I am in ALL those types of threads. The best part is you're mimicking what you accuse me of doing. You'll get it figured out one of these days.  |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:13:01 AM EDT
[#34]
wAnder.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:13:05 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, Madcap 72 does it in thread after thread. Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, Madcap 72 does it in thread after thread.  |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:15:22 AM EDT
[#36]
I think daa9mm likes you Madcap.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:17:33 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think daa9mm likes you Madcap. Here I am, only wanting to trash talk AK's like everyone else and he's derailing the thread....  Shit... you'd figure the thread title would be clue enough... |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:23:25 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am skeptical of your findings, and would welcome the opportunity to examine your data.Welcome to the forum! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
New member to this forum but not new to ak's . Ak-47 and Akm type weapons are late 1940's tech. The only thing i can say is the ak family of weapons are effective when zeroed and depending on country of origin and build quality i have a Romanian WASR-10/63 Underfolder with Wolf/Tula ammo that shoots like a milled Ak or a 5.56mm galil rifle. Its laser accurate like 1-2 inchs at 100 yards. I think someone should modernize the 7.62*39mm and 7.62*54R Rounds they are effective rounds. Not possible. The inherent (in)accuracy of the round itself is about 4moa. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:27:20 AM EDT
[#39]
So you're saying if you load a high quality .311 bullet in 7.62x39 it's gonna be the same 4 moa as a lopsided Tula projectile?
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:40:20 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not possible. The inherent (in)accuracy of the round itself is about 4moa. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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New member to this forum but not new to ak's . Ak-47 and Akm type weapons are late 1940's tech. The only thing i can say is the ak family of weapons are effective when zeroed and depending on country of origin and build quality i have a Romanian WASR-10/63 Underfolder with Wolf/Tula ammo that shoots like a milled Ak or a 5.56mm galil rifle. Its laser accurate like 1-2 inchs at 100 yards. I think someone should modernize the 7.62*39mm and 7.62*54R Rounds they are effective rounds. Not possible. The inherent (in)accuracy of the round itself is about 4moa. 4 rounds, 100yds, 4x scope, 123gr Hornady Vmax steel case, factory load. Wolf 122gr HP hovers right at 2" WASR 10. As you can see, 3 of those 4 rounds are under an inch. 
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:45:52 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 4 rounds, 100yds, 4x scope, 123gr Hornady Vmax steel case, factory load. Wolf 122gr HP hovers right at 2" WASR 10. As you can see, 3 of those 4 rounds are under an inch. http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/the444shooter/Snapbucket/1585BCCE_zpsc20a54bc.jpg http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/the444shooter/Snapbucket/55B855C8_zpsbd7b2573.jpg |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:56:57 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
4 rounds, 100yds, 4x scope, 123gr Hornady Vmax steel case, factory load. Wolf 122gr HP hovers right at 2" WASR 10. As you can see, 3 of those 4 rounds are under an inch. <a href="http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/the444shooter/media/Snapbucket/1585BCCE_zpsc20a54bc.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/the444shooter/Snapbucket/1585BCCE_zpsc20a54bc.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/the444shooter/media/Snapbucket/55B855C8_zpsbd7b2573.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/the444shooter/Snapbucket/55B855C8_zpsbd7b2573.jpg</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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New member to this forum but not new to ak's . Ak-47 and Akm type weapons are late 1940's tech. The only thing i can say is the ak family of weapons are effective when zeroed and depending on country of origin and build quality i have a Romanian WASR-10/63 Underfolder with Wolf/Tula ammo that shoots like a milled Ak or a 5.56mm galil rifle. Its laser accurate like 1-2 inchs at 100 yards. I think someone should modernize the 7.62*39mm and 7.62*54R Rounds they are effective rounds. Not possible. The inherent (in)accuracy of the round itself is about 4moa. 4 rounds, 100yds, 4x scope, 123gr Hornady Vmax steel case, factory load. Wolf 122gr HP hovers right at 2" WASR 10. As you can see, 3 of those 4 rounds are under an inch. <a href="http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/the444shooter/media/Snapbucket/1585BCCE_zpsc20a54bc.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/the444shooter/Snapbucket/1585BCCE_zpsc20a54bc.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/the444shooter/media/Snapbucket/55B855C8_zpsbd7b2573.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/the444shooter/Snapbucket/55B855C8_zpsbd7b2573.jpg</a> So where did the rest of the rounds go? |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:08:26 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, what's 10 rounds look like? Or 20? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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4 rounds, 100yds, 4x scope, 123gr Hornady Vmax steel case, factory load. Wolf 122gr HP hovers right at 2" WASR 10. As you can see, 3 of those 4 rounds are under an inch. http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/the444shooter/Snapbucket/1585BCCE_zpsc20a54bc.jpg http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/the444shooter/Snapbucket/55B855C8_zpsbd7b2573.jpg Don't know, but that fact that 4 rounds of steel-cased 7.62x39 out of a thin barrel slow-fire stayed under 2" is pretty awesome, in my opinion. I also don't know what 10rds or 20rds would look like through a standard chrome-lined M4 w/ 4x scope, either. I love both platforms, but blanket statements about AKs being inaccurate irritate the shit out of me. I'd love to see what my gun will do, and will eventually put it back into that configuration, but as of now, it looks like this: 
I'd welcome you to do the same w/ a chrome-lined, M4 style carbine w/ 4x optics and no upgrades to the trigger. (mine is just a tapco as it came from Century) Please post the results of 10-20rds slow-fire, STEEL-CASED ammunition. It will likely be smaller, no contention from me there, but saying the AK is inaccurate is just ignorant. What do you think 10-20rds of 270 or 30-06 would look like through a Standard, sporter-barreled Remington 700? I'd venture those rounds would start to walk as well, and yet you don't hear people saying the Remington 700 (or Savage, Winchester, fill in the blank) is an inherently inaccurate platform. My SGL-21 cloverleafs 3rds at 50yds with just a Bushnell TRS-25 red dot, so I'll see how it does as well. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:10:57 AM EDT
[#44]
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So where did the rest of the rounds go? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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New member to this forum but not new to ak's . Ak-47 and Akm type weapons are late 1940's tech. The only thing i can say is the ak family of weapons are effective when zeroed and depending on country of origin and build quality i have a Romanian WASR-10/63 Underfolder with Wolf/Tula ammo that shoots like a milled Ak or a 5.56mm galil rifle. Its laser accurate like 1-2 inchs at 100 yards. I think someone should modernize the 7.62*39mm and 7.62*54R Rounds they are effective rounds. Not possible. The inherent (in)accuracy of the round itself is about 4moa. 4 rounds, 100yds, 4x scope, 123gr Hornady Vmax steel case, factory load. Wolf 122gr HP hovers right at 2" WASR 10. As you can see, 3 of those 4 rounds are under an inch. <a href="http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/the444shooter/media/Snapbucket/1585BCCE_zpsc20a54bc.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/the444shooter/Snapbucket/1585BCCE_zpsc20a54bc.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/the444shooter/media/Snapbucket/55B855C8_zpsbd7b2573.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/the444shooter/Snapbucket/55B855C8_zpsbd7b2573.jpg</a> So where did the rest of the rounds go? So, you're saying that a 7.62x39 bolt gun, like a CZ-527, is only capable of 4MOA, due to the round? Now I know you're just trolling. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:19:24 AM EDT
[#45]
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So, you're saying that a 7.62x39 bolt gun, like a CZ-527, is only capable of 4MOA, due to the round? Now I know you're just trolling. If shooting Russian steel cased crap, sure. The fact that you had to resort to a single 4-round group is telling. 
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:21:49 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't know, but that fact that 4 rounds of steel-cased 7.62x39 out of a thin barrel slow-fire stayed under 2" is pretty awesome, in my opinion. I also don't know what 10rds or 20rds would look like through a standard chrome-lined M4 w/ 4x scope, either. I love both platforms, but blanket statements about AKs being inaccurate irritate the shit out of me. I'd love to see what my gun will do, and will eventually put it back into that configuration, but as of now, it looks like this: http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/the444shooter/Snapbucket/6D71ED19.jpg I'd welcome you to do the same w/ a chrome-lined, M4 style carbine w/ 4x optics and no upgrades to the trigger. (mine is just a tapco as it came from Century) Please post the results of 10-20rds slow-fire, STEEL-CASED ammunition. It will likely be smaller, no contention from me there, but saying the AK is inaccurate is just ignorant. What do you think 10-20rds of 270 or 30-06 would look like through a Standard, sporter-barreled Remington 700? I'd venture those rounds would start to walk as well, and yet you don't hear people saying the Remington 700 (or Savage, Winchester, fill in the blank) is an inherently inaccurate platform. My SGL-21 cloverleafs 3rds at 50yds with just a Bushnell TRS-25 red dot, so I'll see how it does as well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 4 rounds, 100yds, 4x scope, 123gr Hornady Vmax steel case, factory load. Wolf 122gr HP hovers right at 2" WASR 10. As you can see, 3 of those 4 rounds are under an inch. http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/the444shooter/Snapbucket/1585BCCE_zpsc20a54bc.jpg http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/the444shooter/Snapbucket/55B855C8_zpsbd7b2573.jpg Don't know, but that fact that 4 rounds of steel-cased 7.62x39 out of a thin barrel slow-fire stayed under 2" is pretty awesome, in my opinion. I also don't know what 10rds or 20rds would look like through a standard chrome-lined M4 w/ 4x scope, either. I love both platforms, but blanket statements about AKs being inaccurate irritate the shit out of me. I'd love to see what my gun will do, and will eventually put it back into that configuration, but as of now, it looks like this: http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/the444shooter/Snapbucket/6D71ED19.jpg I'd welcome you to do the same w/ a chrome-lined, M4 style carbine w/ 4x optics and no upgrades to the trigger. (mine is just a tapco as it came from Century) Please post the results of 10-20rds slow-fire, STEEL-CASED ammunition. It will likely be smaller, no contention from me there, but saying the AK is inaccurate is just ignorant. What do you think 10-20rds of 270 or 30-06 would look like through a Standard, sporter-barreled Remington 700? I'd venture those rounds would start to walk as well, and yet you don't hear people saying the Remington 700 (or Savage, Winchester, fill in the blank) is an inherently inaccurate platform. My SGL-21 cloverleafs 3rds at 50yds with just a Bushnell TRS-25 red dot, so I'll see how it does as well. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:22:47 AM EDT
[#47]
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If shooting Russian steel cased crap, sure. The fact that you had to resort to a single 4-round group is telling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So, you're saying that a 7.62x39 bolt gun, like a CZ-527, is only capable of 4MOA, due to the round? Now I know you're just trolling. If shooting Russian steel cased crap, sure. The fact that you had to resort to a single 4-round group is telling. in an extreme close up no less to crop out all the other shitty group members |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:23:44 AM EDT
[#48]
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If shooting Russian steel cased crap, sure. The fact that you had to resort to a single 4-round group is telling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So, you're saying that a 7.62x39 bolt gun, like a CZ-527, is only capable of 4MOA, due to the round? Now I know you're just trolling. If shooting Russian steel cased crap, sure. The fact that you had to resort to a single 4-round group is telling. It was printing impressively with both 122gr HP Tula/Wolf, and so I decided to slow fire some of the 123gr Vmax, and that's the one that I took the picture of. You're still not shaking my confidence in my AKs. Try again. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:24:58 AM EDT
[#49]
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in an extreme close up no less to crop out all the other shitty group members Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So, you're saying that a 7.62x39 bolt gun, like a CZ-527, is only capable of 4MOA, due to the round? Now I know you're just trolling. If shooting Russian steel cased crap, sure. The fact that you had to resort to a single 4-round group is telling. in an extreme close up no less to crop out all the other shitty group members Other rounds were not part of the group, so why include them in the picture? |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:32:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't know, but that fact that 4 rounds of steel-cased 7.62x39 out of a thin barrel slow-fire stayed under 2" is pretty awesome, in my opinion. I also don't know what 10rds or 20rds would look like through a standard chrome-lined M4 w/ 4x scope, either. I love both platforms, but blanket statements about AKs being inaccurate irritate the shit out of me. I'd love to see what my gun will do, and will eventually put it back into that configuration, but as of now, it looks like this: http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/the444shooter/Snapbucket/6D71ED19.jpg I'd welcome you to do the same w/ a chrome-lined, M4 style carbine w/ 4x optics and no upgrades to the trigger. (mine is just a tapco as it came from Century) Please post the results of 10-20rds slow-fire, STEEL-CASED ammunition. It will likely be smaller, no contention from me there, but saying the AK is inaccurate is just ignorant. What do you think 10-20rds of 270 or 30-06 would look like through a Standard, sporter-barreled Remington 700? I'd venture those rounds would start to walk as well, and yet you don't hear people saying the Remington 700 (or Savage, Winchester, fill in the blank) is an inherently inaccurate platform. My SGL-21 cloverleafs 3rds at 50yds with just a Bushnell TRS-25 red dot, so I'll see how it does as well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: snip Don't know, but that fact that 4 rounds of steel-cased 7.62x39 out of a thin barrel slow-fire stayed under 2" is pretty awesome, in my opinion. I also don't know what 10rds or 20rds would look like through a standard chrome-lined M4 w/ 4x scope, either. I love both platforms, but blanket statements about AKs being inaccurate irritate the shit out of me. I'd love to see what my gun will do, and will eventually put it back into that configuration, but as of now, it looks like this: http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/the444shooter/Snapbucket/6D71ED19.jpg I'd welcome you to do the same w/ a chrome-lined, M4 style carbine w/ 4x optics and no upgrades to the trigger. (mine is just a tapco as it came from Century) Please post the results of 10-20rds slow-fire, STEEL-CASED ammunition. It will likely be smaller, no contention from me there, but saying the AK is inaccurate is just ignorant. What do you think 10-20rds of 270 or 30-06 would look like through a Standard, sporter-barreled Remington 700? I'd venture those rounds would start to walk as well, and yet you don't hear people saying the Remington 700 (or Savage, Winchester, fill in the blank) is an inherently inaccurate platform. My SGL-21 cloverleafs 3rds at 50yds with just a Bushnell TRS-25 red dot, so I'll see how it does as well. It's... 4 rounds so it counts as a group-ish. Slow fire, four rounds... Doesn't really say anything about the gun's accuracy or yours as the shooter. While blanket statements may irritate you, there is a LOT of collective experience with AK's here, and the general consensus is that they just don't have "it" in the accuracy dept. As for your analogy with the Rem .270/ .30-06, I can tell you with experience that yes, they walk ALL OVER he place. Especially my Win M70 .270. I can only fire 4-5 rounds before the barrel becomes heat effected, and the groups open WAY up. 10-20 rounds? I'd be lucky to hold 7-8 MOA but I've never pushed it that far as there's no point. And yea, even though it's a hunting rifle meant to be fired only one or twice, no way would I call a factory pencil barrel accurate, especially for repeatable accuracy over a long string of rounds. I think many people in the PR field would agree. Thin barrels with poor if any post machining stress relief. The M4/ AR mechanical accuracy is pretty well established. The FN CHF barreled guns especially. I've shot a lot at 500 with irons, with M-16's it's a gimmie. Never had a problem running rapid fire strings with accuracy shifting. Then again that was all brass cased. Not that it really matters. One interesting thing, is how poorly most AK's are crowned. Had a buddy send a cheap WASR off to get something done to it, can't remember what, but he had the barrel match crowned as a joke to see what accuracy improvements there were. I had benched it with him at 100 before to set a baseline, and after it came back the groups were significantly smaller. Been a long time but IIRC it went from 5" groups to 3.5-4". I guess that's the crux of the issue when talking about AK's and accuracy, you may think it's ignorant that people call Ak's inaccurate, but the real question is, what is their level of mechanical accuracy? |
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