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Posted: 11/27/2014 11:24:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Assuming we could rewrite and/or reinterpret some pesky constitutional provisions...would you be in favor of bringing it back? I'm not talking a Jim Caviezel's Jesus-like beating, just some Singaporean bamboo cane whacks...or something of that nature. DUI and nobody's hurt? 5 whacks and and hour in the stock. Repeat shop lifting? 10 whacks and two hours. As Arfcom's only admitted authoritarian, I think it is a fabulous idea. As a non authoritarian, I think it's a much better idea than incarceration for a lot of offenses. |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 11:25:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Bringing back public hangings would probably be more effective.
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Posted: 11/27/2014 11:26:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, if you want bronze age policies move to the Middle East. This. |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 11:30:55 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seriously, I'm not even being sarcastic, Libertarians should love it for these reasons alone. The sole burden of the offense is borne by the offender. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It would be more humane than a prison sentence. Cheaper, too. Seriously, I'm not even being sarcastic, Libertarians should love it for these reasons alone. The sole burden of the offense is borne by the offender. As long as a cheaper and more humane sentence doesn't become a pretense for lightening the burden of proof, I would be interested in the idea. |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 11:32:09 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Going on historical references. A man put in the stocks would be pelted with rocks, veggies, struck with objects, and beaten by the villagers. Also consider this... You are locked standing in these stocks for say 4 days... What happens when you are exhausted and try to rest? You strangle. It was also common that if the person wasn't killed they'd end up maimed by the same things that didn't kill him. Being locked in the stocks is a very cruel thing. Very cruel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We should bring back the stocks and gibbets and whatever else that holds people in place for a few days. This would be an excellent punishment in lieu of jail time or fines... Being put in the stocks was essentially a death sentence. Or the occupant ended up maimed for life. Explain please. I am ignorant. Going on historical references. A man put in the stocks would be pelted with rocks, veggies, struck with objects, and beaten by the villagers. Also consider this... You are locked standing in these stocks for say 4 days... What happens when you are exhausted and try to rest? You strangle. It was also common that if the person wasn't killed they'd end up maimed by the same things that didn't kill him. Being locked in the stocks is a very cruel thing. Very cruel. As well as being exposed to the rain, heat and cold. |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 11:38:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How about tattoos indicating the crime they committed? The neck would be a good place for them, and scumbags already have them there anyway. It would be nice to know that you are dealing with someone who has 3 DWIs and 2 posession charges just by looking at them. Child molesters should have tattoos put on their face, detailing what they did. It would make them the subject of scorn the rest of their lives and they might just "punch their own ticket", which would save society a lot of problems. I'm pretty sure that's already how it works. Not usually that explicit, but the more visible tats one has, the worse criminal I assume him to be. Also, +1 on public hangings. |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 11:40:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Going on historical references. A man put in the stocks would be pelted with rocks, veggies, struck with objects, and beaten by the villagers. Also consider this... You are locked standing in these stocks for say 4 days... What happens when you are exhausted and try to rest? You strangle. It was also common that if the person wasn't killed they'd end up maimed by the same things that didn't kill him. Being locked in the stocks is a very cruel thing. Very cruel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We should bring back the stocks and gibbets and whatever else that holds people in place for a few days. This would be an excellent punishment in lieu of jail time or fines... Being put in the stocks was essentially a death sentence. Or the occupant ended up maimed for life. Explain please. I am ignorant. Going on historical references. A man put in the stocks would be pelted with rocks, veggies, struck with objects, and beaten by the villagers. Also consider this... You are locked standing in these stocks for say 4 days... What happens when you are exhausted and try to rest? You strangle. It was also common that if the person wasn't killed they'd end up maimed by the same things that didn't kill him. Being locked in the stocks is a very cruel thing. Very cruel. Of course we can install some creature comforts! Perhaps a glass enclosure like at a zoo!  Seriously though, we need to show off stupidity so others don't partake...
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Posted: 11/27/2014 11:55:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Not talking the "you've been a naughty girl now put on this laytex corset" kind. I mean the lash kind for the administration of public justice. Assuming we could rewrite and/or reinterpret some pesky constitutional provisions...would you be in favor of bringing it back? I'm not talking a Jim Caviezel's Jesus-like beating, just some Singaporean bamboo cane whacks...or something of that nature. DUI and nobody's hurt? 5 whacks and and hour in the stock. Repeat shop lifting? 10 whacks and two hours. As Arfcom's only admitted authoritarian, I think it is a fabulous idea. I know a guy that did some stupid stuff in his late teens. No one got hurt and it wasn’t sexual in nature. Breaking and entering into storage buildings for the most part. Now, he was a piece of shit dumbass for doing that and needed to be punished. So he went to prison for a couple of years. Fair enough. The guy admits he deserved far worse. But, I asked him if being beaten in front of the courthouse would have been a better punishment… And it was no contest. He said that the beating would have been far more merciful and far more effective. See, prison is a really nasty punishment. You lose your home. You likely lose your family. You lose your educational opportunities. You lose your job. And then you have a criminal record following you for your entire life and you can never get away from it. Compare that to having to take a week off from work or school while your back heals up from the well deserved beating. Then you get back to your life. No showering with men, no separation from family, and no chance for you to become more criminal by being locked up with criminals. Hell, let’s make it voluntary. For crimes like you mention the guilty can take his beating and walk away with a clean record or he can go sit in a jail cell for a few months. It can’t be cruel punishment if the prisoner is asking for it. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 12:06:30 AM EDT
[#9]
People who are against it just repeat dogma.
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Posted: 11/28/2014 1:38:33 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know a guy that did some stupid stuff in his late teens. No one got hurt and it wasn’t sexual in nature. Breaking and entering into storage buildings for the most part. Now, he was a piece of shit dumbass for doing that and needed to be punished. So he went to prison for a couple of years. Fair enough. The guy admits he deserved far worse. But, I asked him if being beaten in front of the courthouse would have been a better punishment… And it was no contest. He said that the beating would have been far more merciful and far more effective. See, prison is a really nasty punishment. You lose your home. You likely lose your family. You lose your educational opportunities. You lose your job. And then you have a criminal record following you for your entire life and you can never get away from it. Compare that to having to take a week off from work or school while your back heals up from the well deserved beating. Then you get back to your life. No showering with men, no separation from family, and no chance for you to become more criminal by being locked up with criminals. Hell, let’s make it voluntary. For crimes like you mention the guilty can take his beating and walk away with a clean record or he can go sit in a jail cell for a few months. It can’t be cruel punishment if the prisoner is asking for it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not talking the "you've been a naughty girl now put on this laytex corset" kind. I mean the lash kind for the administration of public justice. Assuming we could rewrite and/or reinterpret some pesky constitutional provisions...would you be in favor of bringing it back? I'm not talking a Jim Caviezel's Jesus-like beating, just some Singaporean bamboo cane whacks...or something of that nature. DUI and nobody's hurt? 5 whacks and and hour in the stock. Repeat shop lifting? 10 whacks and two hours. As Arfcom's only admitted authoritarian, I think it is a fabulous idea. I know a guy that did some stupid stuff in his late teens. No one got hurt and it wasn’t sexual in nature. Breaking and entering into storage buildings for the most part. Now, he was a piece of shit dumbass for doing that and needed to be punished. So he went to prison for a couple of years. Fair enough. The guy admits he deserved far worse. But, I asked him if being beaten in front of the courthouse would have been a better punishment… And it was no contest. He said that the beating would have been far more merciful and far more effective. See, prison is a really nasty punishment. You lose your home. You likely lose your family. You lose your educational opportunities. You lose your job. And then you have a criminal record following you for your entire life and you can never get away from it. Compare that to having to take a week off from work or school while your back heals up from the well deserved beating. Then you get back to your life. No showering with men, no separation from family, and no chance for you to become more criminal by being locked up with criminals. Hell, let’s make it voluntary. For crimes like you mention the guilty can take his beating and walk away with a clean record or he can go sit in a jail cell for a few months. It can’t be cruel punishment if the prisoner is asking for it. I'm down with this. If corporal punishment is good enough for raising kids, it's worth a shot on low-level adult offenders. RE the part in bold... I'm having a hard time wording this... it's shocking how much effort we, as a society, expend on trying to rehabilitate former inmates from the experience of being in prison, over-and-above the criminal acts that put them there in the first place. The effects of the prison experience are probably far more damaging to inmates, and by extension our society, than the stupidity that puts most of them in there to begin with. Does that make sense? |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 1:41:34 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think it should depend on the crime. If it is a crime with a clear victim, then sentences should be decided by said victim (or next of kin/whatever if victim is unable to sentence). All else? Sentence by jury with a majority decision (to prevent juries that couldn't agree). If the victim or jury decide the sentence should be nothing, then so be it. If the victim or jury decide the sentence should be to be strung up with a slipknot around your testicles until you fall or die, so be it. The check/balance is that there must be someone willing to carry out the punishment within the sentencing jury. WTFF? |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 1:53:12 AM EDT
[#12]
Not a fan of the state having the authority to pick and choose miscreants through bureaucracy, but a proper Jury decision to punish and reform?
There are a whole lot of defectives that wouldn't be dead or in prison, if they were stretched a bit, and taught to respect other peoples property at an earlier age. 
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Posted: 11/28/2014 2:04:20 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Criminal law exists to do three things: 1. Restrict the offender from society, 2. Retribution for the offense (which also provides deterrent against recidivism) and 3. rehabilitation of offenders. You are talking about "restriction". I am talking about Retribution and the rest be damned (for minor offenses). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Shit never worked in the day, why would it work now? Criminal behavior is usually about low intelligence and poor impulse control. Jail/prison is more effective because it at least gives society a breather from the criminal. Criminal law exists to do three things: 1. Restrict the offender from society, 2. Retribution for the offense (which also provides deterrent against recidivism) and 3. rehabilitation of offenders. You are talking about "restriction". I am talking about Retribution and the rest be damned (for minor offenses). |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 2:07:16 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The law is an ass. Science and experience tells us that the corporal crap doesn't work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
. Here's your absence of "corporal crap" in action. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 2:13:40 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: . Here's your absence of "corporal crap" in action. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 2:17:20 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They had mob crap back in Roman times when they would crucify you for it. Didn't stop it then, won't stop it now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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. Here's your absence of "corporal crap" in action. Has ANYONE in this thread even hinted at any kind of "mob crap?" You are like the guy standing on the street corner yelling at passing traffic. And waving his arms frantically. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 2:25:02 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has ANYONE in this thread even hinted at any kind of "mob crap?" You are like the guy standing on the street corner yelling at passing traffic. And waving his arms frantically. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 2:28:16 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Forgive me if I would like a couple decades of a legal system which demonstrates some level of humanity. I don't think being locked up over a little weed and forced to join a white supremacist gang to avoid getting assraped by some dude with AIDS is particularly 'humane'. I'd rather be publicly humiliated and allowed to go on with my life. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 2:42:30 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think being locked up over a little weed and forced to join a white supremacist gang to avoid getting assraped by some dude with AIDS is particularly 'humane'. I'd rather be publicly humiliated and allowed to go on with my life. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Forgive me if I would like a couple decades of a legal system which demonstrates some level of humanity. I don't think being locked up over a little weed and forced to join a white supremacist gang to avoid getting assraped by some dude with AIDS is particularly 'humane'. I'd rather be publicly humiliated and allowed to go on with my life. False dichotomy, that assumes the only options for addressing marijuana possession are corporal punishment or jail. In reality we can choose neither. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 2:44:09 AM EDT
[#20]
Hmmm?
 Seems like if you open up the most important set of documents in our country's history to personal interpretation, then it will allow the whole thing to become mute! I'm not OK with either!
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Posted: 11/28/2014 2:50:11 AM EDT
[#21]
It's nice to see so many "small government" conservatives advocating more government power, again.
It's funny, for most of human history what you're advocating has been the law. It doesn't work, unless your goal is to create tyrannical governments that use their power to put fear into every individual who doesn't swear an oath to the king. 
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Posted: 11/28/2014 3:11:37 AM EDT
[#22]
As long as I can be given the chance to throw some rotten tomatoes at petty thieves.
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Posted: 11/28/2014 3:22:33 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's nice to see so many "small government" conservatives advocating more government power, again. It's funny, for most of human history what you're advocating has been the law. It doesn't work, unless your goal is to create tyrannical governments that use their power to put fear into every individual who doesn't swear an oath to the king. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/BNMsFr2643FroissartFol97vExecHughDespenser.jpg/640px-BNMsFr2643FroissartFol97vExecHughDespenser.jpg A big problem with this idea is the complex and bureaucratic mess of our legal system. Exactly which violations, of the thousands of laws we have on the books, are we to use corporal punishment? Miss a court date, for a traffic ticket, 2 lashes? Piss off a judge in court, 12 lashes? Violate a tax law, 4 days in the stocks. Over the limit in hunting season, 6 slashes with the judges belt? Speeding over 15 mph, a public spanking? Jaywalk on Main Street, have your feet caned? Disrespect an officer of the law and get your thumbs pressed? Which crimes get corporal punishment, and which don't? GD is a funny place. On one hand you have lots of folks that say they want limited government, and then a thread like this pops up.  |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 3:32:29 AM EDT
[#24]
Road Cleanup Crews with Guards and Guns was intended to replace the stocks as a form of punishment and humiliations. The problem we have is many have no shame. As for public floggings....meh depends. Hanging and Firing Squads I am all good with that shit.
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Posted: 11/28/2014 3:33:56 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agree. People who are against it just repeat dogma. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It would be more humane than a prison sentence. Cheaper, too. Agree. People who are against it just repeat dogma. 30 lashed is better than three - five defending your virtue in the showers. I am sure most people would prefer to avoid the Juice. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 3:34:29 AM EDT
[#26]
It would never happen, but I think it would be a good idea....cheap and effective.
Some of y'all are over-thinking this. An ass-whuppin' works wonders, believe me. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 3:39:58 AM EDT
[#27]
how many lashes for having a 30 round mag in a ban state? |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 8:08:36 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The law is an ass. Science and experience tells us that the corporal crap doesn't work. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Shit never worked in the day, why would it work now? Criminal behavior is usually about low intelligence and poor impulse control. Jail/prison is more effective because it at least gives society a breather from the criminal. Criminal law exists to do three things: 1. Restrict the offender from society, 2. Retribution for the offense (which also provides deterrent against recidivism) and 3. rehabilitation of offenders. You are talking about "restriction". I am talking about Retribution and the rest be damned (for minor offenses). What science and experience are you referring to? Yours is an opinion and a gratuitous one at that. At least I'm offering mine as opinion and not pretending to have the high ground through "science" and shit. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 8:10:01 AM EDT
[#29]
Are you honestly thinking that people of the lower classes would learn ANYTHING from this?
Your posts are usually good...........this one...................
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Posted: 11/28/2014 8:15:17 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's nice to see so many "small government" conservatives advocating more government power, again. It's funny, for most of human history what you're advocating has been the law. It doesn't work, unless your goal is to create tyrannical governments that use their power to put fear into every individual who doesn't swear an oath to the king. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/BNMsFr2643FroissartFol97vExecHughDespenser.jpg/640px-BNMsFr2643FroissartFol97vExecHughDespenser.jpg This is the "slippery slope" and it is a canard in this instance. Everybody beats the drum on the middle east as the consequence, conveniently forgetting Singapore, which is one of the most civilized areas on earth. If the potential for a concealed firearm "deters" crime in the criminal element (because of threat of harm) why wouldn't the same deterrence hold for corporal punishment for lesser offenses? As for small govt, this would bite into the need for county jails for lesser offenses. It actually takes power away from the government, because it takes a bite out of the taxing rationale, diminishes correctional institutions and courts in size and scope. What's not to like? Some miscreant gets butt hurt, literally? I can live with that. Some people should get their asses beat. Literally. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 8:16:48 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you honestly thinking that people of the lower classes would learn ANYTHING from this? Your posts are usually good...........this one................... Pavlov's dog learned. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 8:18:14 AM EDT
[#32]
Did someone reread Star Ship Troopers recently?
I just skim read the thread so I'm probably repeating whats already been said but yes, I think public shaming/punishment would be great for minor to moderate crimes. You hurt the community, the community hurts you back. Of course this would be in a world where crimes were decided by men with more libertarian leanings and not by political nannys. With our laws as is it would be a horrible idea. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 8:19:33 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you honestly thinking that people of the lower classes would learn ANYTHING from this? Your posts are usually good...........this one................... They would learn that misbehavior of a certain type leads to pain. Pain is persuasive to everyone but quadriplegics and shaolin monks. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 8:21:45 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pavlov's dog learned. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Are you honestly thinking that people of the lower classes would learn ANYTHING from this?
Your posts are usually good...........this one................... Pavlov's dog learned. I suppose it is possible but these low class people are hopeless IMHO. They just need to die off. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 8:24:30 AM EDT
[#35]
1 lash per mile an hour over the speed limit administered instantly on the side of the road.
You dont ever speed do you Op? |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 8:27:35 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suppose it is possible but these low class people are hopeless IMHO. They just need to die off. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are you honestly thinking that people of the lower classes would learn ANYTHING from this? Your posts are usually good...........this one................... Pavlov's dog learned. I suppose it is possible but these low class people are hopeless IMHO. They just need to die off. I'm listening..... We should probably start another thread for that one, though. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 8:29:12 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1 lash per mile an hour over the speed limit administered instantly on the side of the road. You dont ever speed do you Op? Again with the slippery slope. Nonsense. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 8:31:00 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think public shaming might work for minor misdemeanors and violations Until it too becomes a badge of honor within certain elements. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 8:33:16 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Until it too becomes a badge of honor within certain elements. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think public shaming might work for minor misdemeanors and violations Until it too becomes a badge of honor within certain elements. The badges of honor that are adopted today are adopted because they're easy. This wouldn't be. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 8:33:28 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Until it too becomes a badge of honor within certain elements. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think public shaming might work for minor misdemeanors and violations Until it too becomes a badge of honor within certain elements. I would think a good hard lashing to the back would make most man weep from pain. Cryin aint cool yo |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 8:35:28 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
................. I'm listening..... We should probably start another thread for that one, though. Well I didn't say kill them!! 
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Posted: 11/28/2014 8:37:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well I didn't say kill them!! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ................. I'm listening..... We should probably start another thread for that one, though. Well I didn't say kill them!! We could send them for a ride on Air Argentina with the commies. ArgentineC130.jpg |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 9:04:21 AM EDT
[#43]
For punishment to work it must be swift and public. THATS why our justice system fails today
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Posted: 11/28/2014 9:14:13 AM EDT
[#44]
I have often thought that it would be a good idea. The problem is the administration of the punishment. There should be a hard limit to how many lashes could be given at all as well as restrictions on what minor crimes they are given for. I also think that a person found guilty of a minor offense in some cases should be given the choice on infractions on whether to pay a fine or serve some time (think Joe Kidd) as long as it's one and done.
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Posted: 11/28/2014 9:18:52 AM EDT
[#45]
There would be no end to the liberal whining about use on minorities.
I'm in.  |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 9:18:55 AM EDT
[#46]
I volunteer to spank the pretty men.
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Posted: 11/28/2014 9:23:29 AM EDT
[#47]
Bring back Iron Maidens!
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Posted: 11/28/2014 9:32:32 AM EDT
[#48]
I don't find the notion of public stocks, or even a reasonably measured caning, to be violative of the 8th Amendment. In fact, I think it's ultimately much less cruel than the current system where people are essentially branded for life by their "record" and often can't get a job, and probably more effective at deterring bad behavior. In other words, full of win.
I'm a pretty libertarian-leaning conservative, too. The current system of punishment is less effective at deterring crime and ruins people for life instead of making them take their lumps and then moving on. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 9:33:25 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I volunteer to spank the pretty men. You're just inviting leg humping with such a statement. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 9:34:25 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't find the notion of public stocks, or even a reasonably measured caning, to be violative of the 8th Amendment. In fact, I think it's ultimately much less cruel than the current system where people are essentially branded for life by their "record" and often can't get a job, and probably more effective at deterring bad behavior. In other words, full of win. This is my perspective. It would be something, theoretically, a person could learn from. Instead of going to county for six months to learn to be a better criminal. |
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