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Posted: 11/25/2014 9:44:55 PM EDT
[#1]
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Why not just use the Sig P220 in 45 ACP or use a 10mm handgun? Training standards and ammo allocations for conventional army units for pistols would make those the worse choices possible. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 9:46:37 PM EDT
[#2]
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why reinvent the wheel? just buy the Glock 17 or 19 It's what the brass is good at. That wheel ain't gonna re invent its self. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 9:47:23 PM EDT
[#3]
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I truly hope that they adopt an American brand this time. Our troops should not have foreign rifles or pistols. yeah....it turns out the FN m240, FN m249 saw, Sig M11/P228, Sig P226, HK Mk23, HK45C, Glock 19, FN SCAR Heavy, FN SCAR Light, HK 416, HK Mp-5, HK Mp7, Bofors AT4 - ALL of which are foreign designed....have been utter failures in use for the US Mil. ;) I want the best no matter where it comes from. My question is in the weapons I have listed, which are all active use in the .mil....where were the USA designs that kicked ass and beat them in trials? |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 9:47:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Or they could quit dickin' around, and buy a bunch of M11/ P229 G19, Which are already NSN numbered, in production, and the manuals and and armory infrastructure is already in place. You Glock fanbois need to GTFO the military is never going to buy you with no MANUAL SAFETY. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 9:49:07 PM EDT
[#5]
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You Glock fanbois need to GTFO the military is never going to buy you with no MANUAL SAFETY. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Or they could quit dickin' around, and buy a bunch of M11/ P229 G19, Which are already NSN numbered, in production, and the manuals and and armory infrastructure is already in place. You Glock fanbois need to GTFO the military is never going to buy you with no MANUAL SAFETY. Glock are already in limited service |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 9:49:36 PM EDT
[#6]
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CID and MPI carry the M11. Don't know who else. Navy EOD at the group level, some aviation squadrons, other commands that want a kinda smaller pistol. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 9:50:55 PM EDT
[#7]
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Or they could just stick with the Beretta. It works fine. Concur |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 9:50:59 PM EDT
[#8]
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Glock are already in limited service Yes... Yes they are 19 and 22 are the ones I've seen. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 9:53:42 PM EDT
[#9]
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Glock are already in limited service Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Or they could quit dickin' around, and buy a bunch of M11/ P229 G19, Which are already NSN numbered, in production, and the manuals and and armory infrastructure is already in place. You Glock fanbois need to GTFO the military is never going to buy you with no MANUAL SAFETY. Glock are already in limited service Last tour saw 19 and 26's in use in RC E and RC C. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:06:28 PM EDT
[#10]
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Usp 9 Case closed, has all the safe features the army wants Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They should just use CZ HK and forget the rest. FIFY Usp 9 Case closed, has all the safe features the army wants Except it's in 9 |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:12:21 PM EDT
[#11]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berry_Amendment We shouldn't have foreign equipment unless there is no other option. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I truly hope that they adopt an American brand this time. Our troops should not have foreign rifles or pistols. what? snip prolly more i cant remember.... ALL FOREIGN!!!!!! FOR FUCK'S SAKE, WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE???? We shouldn't have foreign equipment unless there is no other option. We should have the best equipment, regardless of where it was designed. Also the Berry Amendment doesn't limit to US procurement. Australia Austria Belgium Canada Czech Republic Denmark Egypt Finland France Germany Greece Israel Italy Luxembourg Netherlands Norway Poland Portugal Spain Sweden Switzerland Turkey United Kingdom Are all qualified countries, essentially exempt from most of the Berry Amendment and Buy American Act. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:14:37 PM EDT
[#12]
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Except it's in 9 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They should just use CZ HK and forget the rest. FIFY Usp 9 Case closed, has all the safe features the army wants Except it's in 9 You guys act like the army wants to pick up a new caliber It's gonna be 9 and it's going to be NATO |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:15:35 PM EDT
[#13]
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Not going to happen though, as some limp dick faggot wants a safety... Not that the thumb safety you can get on an M&P is worth a shit, you breathe on it or look at it funny and it moves. CID and MPI carry the M11. Don't know who else. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Or they could quit dickin' around, and buy a bunch of M11/ P229, Which are already NSN numbered, in production, and the manuals and and armory infrastructure is already in place. Winning This... The M11-A1 is NSN numbered (though not issued that I know of) and it would be a great replacement for the M9. Not going to happen though, as some limp dick faggot wants a safety... Not that the thumb safety you can get on an M&P is worth a shit, you breathe on it or look at it funny and it moves. CID and MPI carry the M11. Don't know who else. Navy Aviation |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:16:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We should have the best equipment, regardless of where it was designed. Also the Berry Amendment doesn't limit to US procurement. Australia Austria Belgium Canada Czech Republic Denmark Egypt Finland France Germany Greece Israel Italy Luxembourg Netherlands Norway Poland Portugal Spain Sweden Switzerland Turkey United Kingdom Are all qualified countries, essentially exempt from most of the Berry Amendment and Buy American Act. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I truly hope that they adopt an American brand this time. Our troops should not have foreign rifles or pistols. what? snip prolly more i cant remember.... ALL FOREIGN!!!!!! FOR FUCK'S SAKE, WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE???? We shouldn't have foreign equipment unless there is no other option. We should have the best equipment, regardless of where it was designed. Also the Berry Amendment doesn't limit to US procurement. Australia Austria Belgium Canada Czech Republic Denmark Egypt Finland France Germany Greece Israel Italy Luxembourg Netherlands Norway Poland Portugal Spain Sweden Switzerland Turkey United Kingdom Are all qualified countries, essentially exempt from most of the Berry Amendment and Buy American Act. Guess we don't have any reason to make competitive products in America anymore. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:16:11 PM EDT
[#15]
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Except it's in 9 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They should just use CZ HK and forget the rest. FIFY Usp 9 Case closed, has all the safe features the army wants Except it's in 9 HK45 then for you. USP ergos are dated IMO. HK P30 is the shit. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:18:08 PM EDT
[#16]
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You guys act like the army wants to pick up a new caliber It's gonna be 9 and it's going to be NATO Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They should just use CZ HK and forget the rest. FIFY Usp 9 Case closed, has all the safe features the army wants Except it's in 9 You guys act like the army wants to pick up a new caliber It's gonna be 9 and it's going to be NATO No disagreement there. The real question is if the can finally get away from the antique DA/SA Decocker mode of fire. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:22:42 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No disagreement there. The real question is if the can finally get away from the antique DA/SA Decocker mode of fire. Quote HistoryQuoted: snip No disagreement there. The real question is if the can finally get away from the antique DA/SA Decocker mode of fire. Then again, it's common for people who have invested in DA/SA to defend it to the death so maybe that's too much to ask for. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:24:01 PM EDT
[#18]
XD45 is always the answer
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:32:36 PM EDT
[#19]
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You guys act like the army wants to pick up a new caliber It's gonna be 9 and it's going to be NATO Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They should just use CZ HK and forget the rest. FIFY Usp 9 Case closed, has all the safe features the army wants Except it's in 9 You guys act like the army wants to pick up a new caliber It's gonna be 9 and it's going to be NATO Most likely it's going to remain 9, and also the Beretta, because this program will be canceled. If a new pistol ends up being purchased though it is not going to be 9mm. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:38:58 PM EDT
[#20]
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I would hope so... Then again, it's common for people who have invested in DA/SA to defend it to the death so maybe that's too much to ask for.
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snip No disagreement there. The real question is if the can finally get away from the antique DA/SA Decocker mode of fire. Then again, it's common for people who have invested in DA/SA to defend it to the death so maybe that's too much to ask for.
Confession, I was one of them for 20 years. I had to shoot a friend's HK LEM to see the light 
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:46:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Get upgrayedd to M9A1 or Glock 17/19.
/thread |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:57:24 PM EDT
[#22]
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I'll be very interested in seeing what they do to the M&P line for the MHS. We've seen the Sig entrant, and probably the H&K entrant. But I can't wait to see what Glock, S&W, and Beretta bring to the table. The MHS is going to do to modern service handguns what JCP did for full-size double stack .45s. Where can they possibly go with 9mm that hasn't already been done? The military is well behind the curve here, there won't be anything revolutionary coming out of this. There isn't really anything wrong with the M9 anyway, this is just an excuse to waste money, like the M16/M4 replacement trials they love to hold every few years. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:58:19 PM EDT
[#23]
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I truly hope that they adopt an American brand this time. Our troops should not have foreign rifles or pistols. You do know they're still made here right? Even if it's a foreign "brand". |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:00:01 PM EDT
[#24]
Beretta 92g-sd with np3 or failzero.
ETA and yeah, quit buying aftermarket crap mags. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:04:32 PM EDT
[#25]
What's wrong with the M9? Too heavy?
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:07:35 PM EDT
[#26]
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Beretta 92g-sd with np3 or failzero. ETA and yeah, quit buying aftermarket crap mags. Our armory didn't have a single checkmate mag that I saw, and I looked. This was several years ago, the mag issue has been resolved from what I saw. We also got a few hundred shiny new M9A1s with accessory rails around 2010, they are great pistols. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:11:06 PM EDT
[#27]
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Have you seen the contract requirements? No-one knows if it will need a safety. Contrary to popular opinion the M9 contract didn't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Or they could quit dickin' around, and buy a bunch of M11/ P229, Which are already NSN numbered, in production, and the manuals and and armory infrastructure is already in place. Winning This... The M11-A1 is NSN numbered (though not issued that I know of) and it would be a great replacement for the M9. Not going to happen though, as some limp dick faggot wants a safety... Not that the thumb safety you can get on an M&P is worth a shit, you breathe on it or look at it funny and it moves. Have you seen the contract requirements? No-one knows if it will need a safety. Contrary to popular opinion the M9 contract didn't. The last RFP included some models with a thumb safety, and others without. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:11:43 PM EDT
[#28]
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Like cars, most foreign pistols are better than American ones. Sig, CZ, HK, Walther > S&W, Springfield, Ruger Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I truly hope that they adopt an American brand this time. Our troops should not have foreign rifles or pistols. Like cars, most foreign pistols are better than American ones. Sig, CZ, HK, Walther > S&W, Springfield, Ruger lol Also, Springfield's handgun is not a US made gun. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:13:22 PM EDT
[#29]
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What's wrong with the M9? Too heavy? Too big, too heavy and too clumsy for most people to operate the decocker properly. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:16:22 PM EDT
[#30]
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Too big, too heavy and too clumsy for most people to operate the decocker properly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's wrong with the M9? Too heavy? Too big, too heavy and too clumsy for most people to operate the decocker properly. and only 15 rds |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:26:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Confession, I was one of them for 20 years. I had to shoot a friend's HK LEM to see the light Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: snip No disagreement there. The real question is if the can finally get away from the antique DA/SA Decocker mode of fire. Then again, it's common for people who have invested in DA/SA to defend it to the death so maybe that's too much to ask for. Confession, I was one of them for 20 years. I had to shoot a friend's HK LEM to see the light It made a great segue from revolvers to Semi's, it filled a niche for risk averse markets (not a negativity, a pragmatic observation of my own) and it worked well for the training of the time (also a transition from revolvers). But, now, as you and many have learned, the options, training and awareness has changed since the time DA/SA was reigning supreme. It's all iterative building blocks. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:27:51 PM EDT
[#32]
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Too big, too heavy and too clumsy for most people to operate the decocker properly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's wrong with the M9? Too heavy? Too big, too heavy and too clumsy for most people to operate the decocker properly. If you're not a woman or a tiny man then the safety is a non-issue. Big and heavy, it's no CCW piece but it doesn't need to be. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:31:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2014/11/25/GenDyn-Smith-Wesson-team-to-supply-new-pistol-to-Army/6881416941593/ excerpt - ST. PETERSBURG, Fla., Nov. 25 (UPI) -- General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems and Smith & Wesson Holding Corp. have joined forces in pursuit of a contract to supply a new 9mm handgun to the U.S. Army. The firearm, for the Army's Modular Handgun System solicitation, will be based on Smith & Wesson's M&P polymer pistol platform, which features a reinforced polymer chassis and ambidextrous controls and which is carried by law enforcement personnel around the world. "This partnership combines General Dynamics' proven legacy in manufacturing military armaments with Smith & Wesson's extensive experience in designing and manufacturing firearms for commercial applications," This partnership combines Smith and Wesson's mediocre pistols and General Dynamics retired generals and former congressman, combining lobbyist and engineer... |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:32:50 PM EDT
[#34]
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and only 15 rds Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's wrong with the M9? Too heavy? Too big, too heavy and too clumsy for most people to operate the decocker properly. and only 15 rds MecGar mags, 18+1. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:33:31 PM EDT
[#35]
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No worries, DA/SA was the hot hot heat for a LONG time... It made a great segue from revolvers to Semi's, it filled a niche for risk averse markets (not a negativity, a pragmatic observation of my own) and it worked well for the training of the time (also a transition from revolvers). But, now, as you and many have learned, the options, training and awareness has changed since the time DA/SA was reigning supreme. It's all iterative building blocks. All true... Looking in the crystal ball, do you think the Army will go for a Striker pistol like the OP's link claims it will? |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:34:34 PM EDT
[#36]
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and only 15 rds Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's wrong with the M9? Too heavy? Too big, too heavy and too clumsy for most people to operate the decocker properly. and only 15 rds Beretta makes OEM 17 round mags now. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:34:55 PM EDT
[#37]
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and only 15 rds Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's wrong with the M9? Too heavy? Too big, too heavy and too clumsy for most people to operate the decocker properly. and only 15 rds This is funny! I remember when the M9 was adopted. The 15rd magazine was one of the huge selling points. Now it's not enough? |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:35:56 PM EDT
[#38]
LOL zero clue, that's so far outside my realm that I couldn't even guess.
WAG, they hold a round of tests, find the juice isn't worth the squeeze, and continue business as usual... I guess the question to ask is what's going on with bases and such in Italy? |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:37:12 PM EDT
[#39]
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Smith&Wesson to supply the M&Ps and General Dynamics to grease the right palms. It's funny, because it's true. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:41:40 PM EDT
[#40]
I guess the only thing that's stopping the M11 is where it's made.
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:41:53 PM EDT
[#41]
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This is funny! I remember when the M9 was adopted. The 15rd magazine was one of the huge selling points. Now it's not enough? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's wrong with the M9? Too heavy? Too big, too heavy and too clumsy for most people to operate the decocker properly. and only 15 rds This is funny! I remember when the M9 was adopted. The 15rd magazine was one of the huge selling points. Now it's not enough? The grip is huge, there are reliable 18 round 92/M9 mags out there, the military just hasn't adopted any new mags. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:43:26 PM EDT
[#42]
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I guess the only thing that's stopping the M11 is where it's made. ... New Hampshire? |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:44:03 PM EDT
[#43]
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This partnership combines Smith and Wesson's mediocre pistols and General Dynamics retired generals and former congressman, combining lobbyist and engineer... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2014/11/25/GenDyn-Smith-Wesson-team-to-supply-new-pistol-to-Army/6881416941593/ excerpt - ST. PETERSBURG, Fla., Nov. 25 (UPI) -- General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems and Smith & Wesson Holding Corp. have joined forces in pursuit of a contract to supply a new 9mm handgun to the U.S. Army. The firearm, for the Army's Modular Handgun System solicitation, will be based on Smith & Wesson's M&P polymer pistol platform, which features a reinforced polymer chassis and ambidextrous controls and which is carried by law enforcement personnel around the world. "This partnership combines General Dynamics' proven legacy in manufacturing military armaments with Smith & Wesson's extensive experience in designing and manufacturing firearms for commercial applications," This partnership combines Smith and Wesson's mediocre pistols and General Dynamics retired generals and former congressman, combining lobbyist and engineer... lol Glocktards. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:44:25 PM EDT
[#44]
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... New Hampshire? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I guess the only thing that's stopping the M11 is where it's made. ... New Hampshire? My mistake. Looked on wikipedia and got the impression it was made in Switzerland. I didn't think about their Exeter set up. Reading is for fags and all that. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:44:59 PM EDT
[#45]
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LOL zero clue, that's so far outside my realm that I couldn't even guess. WAG, they hold a round of tests, find the juice isn't worth the squeeze, and continue business as usual... I guess the question to ask is what's going on with bases and such in Italy? That would be harsh if it wasn't so true. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:52:42 PM EDT
[#46]
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My mistake. Looked on wikipedia and got the impression it was made in Switzerland. I didn't think about their Exeter set up. Reading is for fags and all that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I guess the only thing that's stopping the M11 is where it's made. ... New Hampshire? My mistake. Looked on wikipedia and got the impression it was made in Switzerland. I didn't think about their Exeter set up. Reading is for fags and all that. Funny thing about that too... Sigs made for export in Europe are actually made in Germany, that's the Sauer part of SIG Sauer. SIG/Swiss Arms makes the 550 in Switzerland, and that actually might be it. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:56:07 PM EDT
[#47]
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Quality article here: "The standard U.S. Army sidearm is a 9mm pistol from Baretta, which in 1985 replaced the .45 caliber pistol in use since 1911"  
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:58:02 PM EDT
[#48]
Pistols are stupid anyway. Mk18s for everyone. |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 12:11:43 AM EDT
[#49]
It's going to be a manual safety and decock
I can imagine army heads exploding with something like a cocked and locked 1911 now adays ...omgggdathammerisback!!!!! No way a glock for ground troops... No way. Omgeeeerd no safety ! I'm a real big fan of the p8 and I think it would be an excellent sidearm for the us army , already got us troops that are shooting it 
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Posted: 11/26/2014 12:13:26 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Beretta is fine How about developing expandable full metal jacket for fucks sake ... Efmj is proven Or just skip that shit all together, and issue a modern JHP design... to hell with euro "feelings" about warfare and "suffering". |
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