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Posted: 11/25/2014 8:29:58 PM EDT
[#1]
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Alien Gear Holsters took this event as an opportunity to bash Sig for reliability on their facebook.  There as many idiots commenting in that post as there are in this one. 
Jam as in bad guy grabbing for my pistol or the thing just wouldn't fire. There is quite a difference. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 8:39:56 PM EDT
[#2]
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It appears to be 180 gr Federal HSTs from the pics Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wonder what ammo the department got for him? It appears to be 180 gr Federal HSTs from the pics Definitely .40 s&w Federal HST, not sure of bullet weight by eye, but very likely 180 gr. 
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Posted: 11/25/2014 8:45:19 PM EDT
[#3]
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Definitely .40 s&w Federal HST, not sure of bullet weight by eye, but very likely 180 gr. http://i.imgur.com/tfO7F06.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wonder what ammo the department got for him? It appears to be 180 gr Federal HSTs from the pics Definitely .40 s&w Federal HST, not sure of bullet weight by eye, but very likely 180 gr. http://i.imgur.com/tfO7F06.jpg Some of the documents describe recovered weights up to 177 grains, so I assume he was carrying 180 gr. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 8:56:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Definitely 180 gr based on the length of the skives.
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Posted: 11/25/2014 8:59:02 PM EDT
[#5]
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If a revolver is gripped in such a way that the cylinder can not turn it will not fire in double action mode. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I got laughed out of a thread when I mentioned that revolvers have the advantage of not being able to be pushed out of battery at contact distances. If a revolver is gripped in such a way that the cylinder can not turn it will not fire in double action mode. Unless hammer is already locked to the rear, it's useless once the cylinder is held |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 9:05:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Grab the cylinder on a revolver, if it can't turn they cant shoot you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So the lesson here is we should all carry revolvers.  Grab the cylinder on a revolver, if it can't turn they cant shoot you. Silly squid, what if the hammer is cocked?  |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 9:08:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Definitely 180 gr based on the length of the skives. Looks identical to the 180 grain HSTs loaded in my service weapon right now. Except my agency didn't spring for the nickle plated cases. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 9:13:46 PM EDT
[#8]
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A Glock also won't cycle the slide if there is some pressure against the rear of the slide to keep it from unlocking when it's fired. You can put your thumb up against the rear of a Glock slide, fire it, and it won't cycle. Not sure what other pistols won't unlock, but I know Glocks won't. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And that's why I want a second strike option on my pistol. Glock would have worked on the first trigger pull Not if it was out of battery like his sig was I love my Glocks and am carrying one on duty right now. But yeah, it won't fire with the slide pushed back. A Glock also won't cycle the slide if there is some pressure against the rear of the slide to keep it from unlocking when it's fired. You can put your thumb up against the rear of a Glock slide, fire it, and it won't cycle. Not sure what other pistols won't unlock, but I know Glocks won't. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile In a tournament recently, was doing flash light/handgun drills using my G21. Left hand holding light over my shooting hand wrist and got the slide right into my hand. That shit hurt
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Posted: 11/25/2014 9:19:31 PM EDT
[#9]
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Looks identical to the 180 grain HSTs loaded in my service weapon right now. Except my agency didn't spring for the nickle plated cases.
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Definitely 180 gr based on the length of the skives. Looks identical to the 180 grain HSTs loaded in my service weapon right now. Except my agency didn't spring for the nickle plated cases.
I have a good stockpile of both 155 gr and 180 gr HSTs from when I caught a good deal on them. I sort my loose 155 and 180 gr HSTs by looking at the length of the skives. The 155 gr skives only go halfway down the side of the bullet. The 180 gr skives go all the way down to the case mouth. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 10:07:01 PM EDT
[#10]
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Glock would have blown up and killed them both. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And that's why I want a second strike option on my pistol. Glock would have worked on the first trigger pull Glock would have blown up and killed them both.  based on . . . .?
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:49:46 PM EDT
[#11]
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In a tournament recently, was doing flash light/handgun drills using my G21. Left hand holding light over my shooting hand wrist and got the slide right into my hand. That shit hurt
That was slide bite. Not the same. Use your thumb to press on the rear of the slide, keeping it in battery. Slide won't move, gun is single shot only at that point, but at least you get one. |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 4:17:45 AM EDT
[#12]
Just A revolver? The cop would have been beaten to death if he had a revolver... He did fire 12 shots. Good luck reloading that revolver when he perp is 3-5 seconds from being on top of you.
Now, a revolver or small auto BUG, that might have come in handy. |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 4:37:50 AM EDT
[#13]
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based on . . . .?Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And that's why I want a second strike option on my pistol. Glock would have worked on the first trigger pull Glock would have blown up and killed them both. based on . . . .?.40SW out of battery discharge. |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 4:46:14 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The hive mind is schizophrenic. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: wait so DA/SA are now preferred? The hive mind is schizophrenic. That's no shit! |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 5:43:12 AM EDT
[#15]
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I agree, but you know how most people are. Training is hard work and energy. Equipment means buying a new gun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Each different self defense encounter leads to people rethinking their weapon choice. Which is silly in almost every case, including this one. Training>Equipment Lesson here should be "I should really get some combatives/retention training". YMMV. I know the keyboard warriors find it a lot more fun to argue equipment, so have at it. I agree, but you know how most people are. Training is hard work and energy. Equipment means buying a new gun. It can still mean buying more stuff. 
I've been thinking about situations where a bad guy fights for my gun like what happened to Wilson, a small fixed blade for my weak side is a good idea to go into stabby/slashy mode. I forgot the thread, but there was a pic of someone's daily carry setup AIWB with a small fixed knife I liked. 20 years ago I'd be a lot more confident physically wrestling for my weapon, now I'm too old for that shit and need all the help I can get. |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 9:04:38 AM EDT
[#16]
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Glock would have worked on the first trigger pull Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And that's why I want a second strike option on my pistol. Glock would have worked on the first trigger pull 
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Posted: 11/26/2014 9:07:51 AM EDT
[#17]
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based on . . . .?Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And that's why I want a second strike option on my pistol. Glock would have worked on the first trigger pull Glock would have blown up and killed them both. based on . . . .?design
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Posted: 11/26/2014 9:08:50 AM EDT
[#18]
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Just A revolver? The cop would have been beaten to death if he had a revolver... He did fire 12 shots. Good luck reloading that revolver when he perp is 3-5 seconds from being on top of you. Now, a revolver or small auto BUG, that might have come in handy. like a .357 mag snubby in a vest holster
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Posted: 11/26/2014 9:22:29 AM EDT
[#19]
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like a .357 mag snubby in a vest holster Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just A revolver? The cop would have been beaten to death if he had a revolver... He did fire 12 shots. Good luck reloading that revolver when he perp is 3-5 seconds from being on top of you. Now, a revolver or small auto BUG, that might have come in handy. like a .357 mag snubby in a vest holster That would probably be the way I would roll. |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 9:29:14 AM EDT
[#20]
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Sig really should capitalize on this. "P229: The Official Handgun of the Ferguson Riots" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Let's all go buy Sigs today. I'm game. Sig really should capitalize on this. "P229: The Official Handgun of the Ferguson Riots" So did my 229 go up in value over this?
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Posted: 11/26/2014 9:35:44 AM EDT
[#21]
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Yes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Alien Gear Holsters took this event as an opportunity to bash Sig for reliability on their facebook. You mean this post from 3 hours ago? According to hist statement, Officer Darren Wilson's Sig P229 jammed on him twice during his altercation with Michael Brown. Anyone else experience frequent jams or problems with this Sig model? Yes. I have carried the exact same gun for a few years now and have never had a problem with it. No disrespect to Darren Wilson but do we know if the gun was taken care of well? Failure to keep it cleaned and lubed could be the culprit. |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 9:38:36 AM EDT
[#22]
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I have carried the exact same gun for a few years now and have never had a problem with it. No disrespect to Darren Wilson but do we know if the gun was taken care of well? Failure to keep it cleaned and lubed could be the culprit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Alien Gear Holsters took this event as an opportunity to bash Sig for reliability on their facebook. You mean this post from 3 hours ago? According to hist statement, Officer Darren Wilson's Sig P229 jammed on him twice during his altercation with Michael Brown. Anyone else experience frequent jams or problems with this Sig model? Yes. I have carried the exact same gun for a few years now and have never had a problem with it. No disrespect to Darren Wilson but do we know if the gun was taken care of well? Failure to keep it cleaned and lubed could be the culprit. Failure to keep a criminal's grubby mitts off it was a more likely culprit than lack of maintenance. |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 9:40:41 AM EDT
[#23]
Just another reason why I like exposed hammer pistols.
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Posted: 11/26/2014 9:42:10 AM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 11/26/2014 12:34:56 PM EDT
[#25]
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Just another reason why I like exposed hammer pistols. In his interviews, Wilson speculated that Brown's hand may have interfered with the operation of the hammer as well. |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 3:15:05 PM EDT
[#26]
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Well, you might be able force a Glock slide into battery (assuming use of both hands) and get a shot off--even with the bad guy leaning on the gun. Obviously the slide would not cycle in this situation because you'd be holding it shut. This has even been taught in some classes. Not sure how it would go with a hammer fired gun like a classic Sig.
I'll take Glock for the win here.  I'm a Sig owner, and I endorse this message. Signed up just to say this. |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 3:57:52 PM EDT
[#27]
This is why my DA/SA is a P90.
That way, if it fails to fire from being out of battery, I can beat the assailant about the head and shoulders until I can return fire. 
(Provided, of course, that use of force is still justified after several rounds with Mike Ruger) 
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Posted: 11/27/2014 12:15:42 PM EDT
[#28]
I read a few in this thread state that a Glock trigger will reset if pulled w/ a round out of battery. I checked this w/ my G17 and it works every time. With the weapon cleared I pulled back on the slide just enough to break the barrel to slide lock and pulled the trigger. The trigger went back and stayed there until I let the slide go and it locked back up w/ the barrel. At this time I could pull the trigger and the firing pin engaged. So, it would seem, that even in officer Wilson's scenario a Glock would have fired just the same as the Sig did once the round was in battery. If I am mistaken in this please show me how as I am more concerned w/ finding truth than being right.
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Posted: 11/27/2014 11:25:26 PM EDT
[#29]
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I read a few in this thread state that a Glock trigger will reset if pulled w/ a round out of battery. I checked this w/ my G17 and it works every time. With the weapon cleared I pulled back on the slide just enough to break the barrel to slide lock and pulled the trigger. The trigger went back and stayed there until I let the slide go and it locked back up w/ the barrel. At this time I could pull the trigger and the firing pin engaged. So, it would seem, that even in officer Wilson's scenario a Glock would have fired just the same as the Sig did once the round was in battery. If I am mistaken in this please show me how as I am more concerned w/ finding truth than being right. No, you're right on the money. There's just a lot of "don't know what the fuck I'm talking about" in this thread. Beyond that, the officer speculates that there was one or more malfunction caused by Brown's hand interfering with the hammer, which of course wouldn't have happened with a Glock. So not only would a Glock also have had the same double strike capability, but it may not have had at least one of the malfunctions encountered there. |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 11:34:56 PM EDT
[#30]
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Grab the cylinder on a revolver, if it can't turn they cant shoot you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So the lesson here is we should all carry revolvers. Grab the cylinder on a revolver, if it can't turn they cant shoot you. Easy to defeate. Just turn the whole gun to move the cylinder. |
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Posted: 11/27/2014 11:44:15 PM EDT
[#31]
How did he get his gun stripped? Did he push the weapon out when firing in close quarters? Why didn't he fire from retention?
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Posted: 11/27/2014 11:45:08 PM EDT
[#32]
To be fair, the Captain said the gun didn't fire because the assailants hand was blocking the hammer. A striker fired gun would have fired on the first shot.
It was much more likely that the assailant blocked the hammer instead of getting the gun out of battery given the way it transpired. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 12:03:19 AM EDT
[#33]
Having had experience with all platforms, I would still take the Glock Safe action trigger system over the DA/SA system.
I wonder if Browns hand was covering the hammer enough that the hammer did not get cocked back completely and fell lighter due to the lack of momentum. Wilson might have just assumed he pulled fully thru. Reason I say this is I have seen revolvers short-stroked while firing quickly in double action mode. The round hit off center and did not go off. Saw it too with a DAO Beretta 96. Short stroke after pulling the trigger too fast. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 12:13:32 AM EDT
[#34]
GOING A DIFFERENT DIRECTION:
Do you think the actual round may have had something to do with it; such as chambering the same round again and again may have set back something?
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Posted: 11/28/2014 12:22:57 AM EDT
[#35]
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I love my Glocks and am carrying one on duty right now. But yeah, it won't fire with the slide pushed back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And that's why I want a second strike option on my pistol. Glock would have worked on the first trigger pull Not if it was out of battery like his sig was I love my Glocks and am carrying one on duty right now. But yeah, it won't fire with the slide pushed back. XD will |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 12:36:10 AM EDT
[#36]
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He was apparently carrying a Sig P229 in .40 sw. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Walther P99. Is this what Wilson was carrying? He was apparently carrying a Sig P229 in .40 sw. ............and now we know why it took so long to drop him. |
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Posted: 11/28/2014 7:27:31 AM EDT
[#37]
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GOING A DIFFERENT DIRECTION: Do you think the actual round may have had something to do with it; such as chambering the same round again and again may have set back something? 
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Posted: 11/29/2014 1:40:00 AM EDT
[#38]
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Maybe Wilson's SIG was out of battery, or maybe there was something (like Brown's hand) obstructing the hammer. A striker fired pistol wouldn't have the second problem. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not if it was out of battery like his sig was Maybe Wilson's SIG was out of battery, or maybe there was something (like Brown's hand) obstructing the hammer. A striker fired pistol wouldn't have the second problem. A hammer striking repeatedly into Browns hand moments before he died probably would show up in the autopsy due to significant bruising and/or puncture wound (I assume). Seems more like the gun was out of battery. |
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Posted: 11/29/2014 1:40:41 AM EDT
[#39]
Ahh, fuck it.
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Posted: 12/2/2014 10:32:19 AM EDT
[#40]
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I may or may not have just grabbed a CZ75 P07 off buds after reading this thread. Great gun, I recommend it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYRuISe7J6Y |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 10:43:57 AM EDT
[#41]
So many people here.
Appear to never have fired a pistol. |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 10:44:20 AM EDT
[#42]
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To be fair, the Captain said the gun didn't fire because the assailants hand was blocking the hammer. A striker fired gun would have fired on the first shot. It was much more likely that the assailant blocked the hammer instead of getting the gun out of battery given the way it transpired. If that's true, then even more at this derp fest.
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Posted: 12/2/2014 10:47:30 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Grab the cylinder on a revolver, if it can't turn they cant shoot you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So the lesson here is we should all carry revolvers. Grab the cylinder on a revolver, if it can't turn they cant shoot you. |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 10:48:41 AM EDT
[#44]
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I got one from buds last week. Best handgun ever, and what a fucking price. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I may or may not have just grabbed a CZ75 P07 off buds after reading this thread. I got 2 of them, and a P09, you chose well
I got one from buds last week. Best handgun ever, and what a fucking price. You should see the price of spare magazines! |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 11:46:06 AM EDT
[#45]
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If that's true, then even more at this derp fest.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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To be fair, the Captain said the gun didn't fire because the assailants hand was blocking the hammer. A striker fired gun would have fired on the first shot. It was much more likely that the assailant blocked the hammer instead of getting the gun out of battery given the way it transpired. If that's true, then even more at this derp fest.
I feel like people can't see my posts. |
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