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Posted: 11/24/2014 10:27:53 AM EDT
[#1]
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Who said Amazon is doing well? they won't be if an internet tax rate is adapted. Amazon WANTS internet tax.. 
LINK Of course they do. Their end game is to build out their distribution network to every state so that next day and same day shipping becomes a possibility on the cheap. That means they'll have to charge sales tax to everyone with or without a change in the law. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but they want to level the playing field in advance so smaller online retailers don't have a sale tax advantage on them when that day comes. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 10:35:20 AM EDT
[#2]
The only reason they still exist is due to a sizable part of the population that has no idea how to use the Internet. When they die, so do those companies.
The only reason they really stay afloat is because they sell the shit you really just don't wants want shipping rates to get; otherwise they are an Amazon showroom.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 10:39:44 AM EDT
[#3]
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Horrible mismanagement. This. Their management was very lazy at running the company, and it had a trickle down effect of complacency. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 10:40:13 AM EDT
[#4]
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They dont sell guns anymore Fixed it for ya but this is part of the reason 
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Posted: 11/24/2014 10:40:21 AM EDT
[#5]
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Who said Amazon is doing well? How about the majority of people with money following Amazon? Their stock is up which by definition means more buyers than sellers. Their sales have doubled in 3 years and they are capturing market share left and right. The fact that their margins are extremely low is a product of all of the investment they are making in building out their distribution network which is bringing them closer and closer to their final vision of being able to deliver next day / same day at a cost which their competitors simply won't be able to touch. Their net income and cash flow is positive while all this happening. I'd say that that's the definition of doing well. Jeff Bezos is going to be vindicated in a big way at some point in this decade. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 10:43:09 AM EDT
[#6]
FUCKING HORRIBLE CUSTOMER SERVICE
Buy something with a warranty and they give you shit about trying to replace or repair |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 10:44:00 AM EDT
[#7]
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Doesnt matter to me. I stopped using them and canceled my prime when they said they are opening a place in IL. Now with taxes attached I have no need for amazon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Who said Amazon is doing well? they won't be if an internet tax rate is adapted. Doesnt matter to me. I stopped using them and canceled my prime when they said they are opening a place in IL. Now with taxes attached I have no need for amazon. Yeah who wants all that music, movies, free cloud storage, reviews, everything in the world in one place at your fingertips shipped free in 48 hrs and a record of everything you bought in your life for future reference 
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Posted: 11/24/2014 10:46:40 AM EDT
[#8]
With the shrinkage of the American middle class, their Customer base is dying. If anyone thinks Amazon is doing well, check the numbers. How they haven't shut their web escapes me.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 10:46:57 AM EDT
[#9]
A lot of other retailers went T.U. through the years, but these get noticed more due to the size and age.
Typical stodgy management style, but will die a slow death due to the immense size. All the Fudds failed to line up to buy J.C. Higgins and Ted Williams named firearms.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:05:55 AM EDT
[#10]
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That and they screwed all current employees. I personally lost thousands on their forced stock sale. I think we were forced to take $0.15 a share at the time. I would have rather held it and waited for a recovery but noooooooooooo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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When Sears was bought by a company that had went bankrupt (Kmart) the end result was guaranteed. The only reason Kmart had the money to buy Sears was because of all the closed stores they sold. That and they screwed all current employees. I personally lost thousands on their forced stock sale. I think we were forced to take $0.15 a share at the time. I would have rather held it and waited for a recovery but noooooooooooo. I ended up making money on that mess. I had just retired (took my retirement as a lump sum payout and rolled it into a 401k), but had a bunch of stock options that hadn't vested yet. Since Sears upper management was a bunch of dickholes, the strike prices of the options were pretty much unattainable fantasy, so all I had was a bunch of paper that said I could pay something like $20 per share extra to buy Sears stock (at some future point). I expect several of the weenies making the deal held a lot of the same trash paper, so part of the buyout was that K-Mart bought the outstanding Sears stock options (vested or not) as if they were options on K-Mart stock. Which turned a tidy chunk of change for me. But yeah, Sears management can suck a bag of dicks. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:09:25 AM EDT
[#11]
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The only reason they still exist is due to a sizable part of the population that has no idea how to use the Internet. When they die, so do those companies. The only reason they really stay afloat is because they sell the shit you really just don't wants want shipping rates to get; otherwise they are an Amazon showroom. You know, I never really thought about that angle, but you are spot on. Lots of things only exist because of grandma. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:10:13 AM EDT
[#12]
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Who said Amazon is doing well? This. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:12:35 AM EDT
[#13]
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That had a lot, lot to do with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Horrible mismanagement. That had a lot, lot to do with it. You know you're fucked up when KMart buys you. 
Side note: the Sears here in my town is one of the stores closing up. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:14:30 AM EDT
[#14]
No company is doing well under Obama. Sears and JCPenny are just reporting accurately.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:19:05 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryI had almost this exact same conversation over breakfast this morning. When we were kids we always got our clothing at Sears. I hate to see any business close, but you have to adapt to changing conditions. 
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:23:55 AM EDT
[#16]
This thread reminded me that I need to get over to our local Sears to see if the liquidators underpriced any tools.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:24:28 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL... Better keep your running shoes with you then!  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: They didn't embrace change. If you recommend reading "Who Moved My Cheese?" I will hunt you down!!! |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:25:33 AM EDT
[#18]
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both got started by mail order catalogs, essentially doing the same damn thing that Amazon does now how is it that Amazon, which is entirely mail order is doing great, these two are in a death spiral? They got old fat and lazy. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:34:58 AM EDT
[#19]
Sears routinely has extremely good prices on their online stuff.
I buy a lot of notebook chargers and batteries from them, as well as other things. They undercut my wholesale warehouses on things I sell quite a bit as well.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:39:23 AM EDT
[#20]
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I had almost this exact same conversation over breakfast this morning. When we were kids we always got our clothing at Sears. I hate to see any business close, but you have to adapt to changing conditions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had almost this exact same conversation over breakfast this morning. When we were kids we always got our clothing at Sears. I hate to see any business close, but you have to adapt to changing conditions. We were talking about Sears about the day, too, but in the context of looking thru the Christmas catalog to generate a gift list. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:40:10 AM EDT
[#21]
I don't understand how Barnes and Noble is still making it. I had a half hour to kill the other day so I went in one to browse. Limited selection, books were 10-15% higher than amazon and about 1/3 of the store was full of Game of Thrones collectibles and toys. The employees seemed genuinely pissed off that anyone would dare come into their store and walk around while they're trying to shuffle books from one place to another.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:41:22 AM EDT
[#22]
Harbor fright
Walmart |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:48:49 AM EDT
[#23]
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This. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Who said Amazon is doing well? This. This has already been explained. Amazon is doing quite well |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:51:23 AM EDT
[#24]
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Has Amazon turned a profit, yet? nope |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 11:58:44 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: how is it that Amazon, which is entirely mail order is doing great, these two are in a death spiral? When did Amazon start doing mail order???????? |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:03:27 PM EDT
[#26]
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With the shrinkage of the American middle class, their Customer base is dying. If anyone thinks Amazon is doing well, check the numbers. How they haven't shut their web escapes me. It probably escapes you because you haven't actually checked their numbers. Post their numbers which you think means they aren't doing well and then explain why everyone else is stupid for valuing the company at $155 Billion. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:05:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Amazon started out as a online book store. It has expanded and hasn't turned a profit since its inception. I guess that's better than losing money, closing stores, being bought by K-Mart, and closing more stores.
JCPenney was doing okay until management got the bright idea to shake shit up. I used to go and use coupons but then they did away with it. Claimed they lowered the prices to reflect that but they just spread it out and funny enough it took away my incentive to shop there. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:05:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Their stuff caters to an older demographic
Malls in some places are dying, and since they tend to be mall anchor stores that affects them They started out as mail order but haven't really pushed their on-line presence |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:06:33 PM EDT
[#29]
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They re-invest the hell out of their earnings, so on paper, no. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Has Amazon turned a profit, yet? They re-invest the hell out of their earnings, so on paper, no. lol what earnings? |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:09:05 PM EDT
[#30]
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nope Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Has Amazon turned a profit, yet? nope Financial statements are for faggots? |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:11:56 PM EDT
[#31]
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both got started by mail order catalogs, essentially doing the same damn thing that Amazon does now how is it that Amazon, which is entirely mail order is doing great, these two are in a death spiral?
I don't know what world you live in, but in the world I live on, those aren't "doing great" kind of numbers for Amazon. It's the losing money on every deal but making it up on volume kind of numbers. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:12:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Sears took away everything that stood them apart from the competition. It started when they got I'd of the candy booth. I used to bug my parents to get popcorn from there and candy. They got rid of it. They then got Chinese tools like everyone else while charging American made prices. Their clothes selection is shit and the only fucking place where you can find help is in the appliance section which is manned by used car salesman.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:19:38 PM EDT
[#33]
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It started when they got I'd of the candy booth. I used to bug my parents to get popcorn from there and candy. They got rid of it. . Eh? I've never seen a candy booth inside a Sears |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:20:26 PM EDT
[#34]
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lol what earnings? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Has Amazon turned a profit, yet? They re-invest the hell out of their earnings, so on paper, no. lol what earnings? Would it kill you to look at their income statement and cash flow statement? Their EBITDA last year was $3.8 Billion. Net Income reflects significantly lower because of all the capital investments they are making which generates a ton of depreciation on their income statement. This is exactly what Chairborne is saying. He's 100% correct. Capital expenditures last year was $3.4 Billion. They are literally spending almost every dime they make to grow the company. This is not a foolish strategy when ecommerce is still less than 7% of all retail and growing at a double digit rate each year. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:22:49 PM EDT
[#35]
Sears and JC Penny's overhead is just to high... Look at their Black Friday offerings... even compared to other department stores, like Kohls or Macys. they can't afford the discounting the others are offering, which leads to stagnant product, which leads to higher inventory costs, which leads to less discounts, which continues the retail death spiral.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:23:01 PM EDT
[#36]
Years ago Sears ran off the older dedicated employees that had worked in same departments most of there careers. Now if you want something in the tool department a girl from lingerie helps you. Went there the other day looking for a 14mm socket. They are not sold out they don't even stock them. Told the girl that this is one of the most sizes that you use. She told me yeah. You can order it online. That's the help you get. Every time I walk thru the door it looks like they are on there last leg. Shelves and racks are bare. Even last christmas they had no stock. Who would want to waste there time there. Failure to adapt and change with the times. Had to read a management book a couple of years ago on the same subject. It's called "From Good To Great". Good reading for anyone who ownes there own business or works in retail business.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:26:38 PM EDT
[#37]
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Doesnt matter to me. I stopped using them and canceled my prime when they said they are opening a place in IL. Now with taxes attached I have no need for amazon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Who said Amazon is doing well? they won't be if an internet tax rate is adapted. Doesnt matter to me. I stopped using them and canceled my prime when they said they are opening a place in IL. Now with taxes attached I have no need for amazon. The only affect that had on me was I stopped buying big ticket items from them which was rare occurance to begin with. I still save money on smaller purchases from Amazon. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:32:22 PM EDT
[#38]
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**SNIP** I don't know what world you live in, but in the world I live on, those aren't "doing great" kind of numbers for Amazon. It's the losing money on every deal but making it up on volume kind of numbers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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both got started by mail order catalogs, essentially doing the same damn thing that Amazon does now how is it that Amazon, which is entirely mail order is doing great, these two are in a death spiral? **SNIP** I don't know what world you live in, but in the world I live on, those aren't "doing great" kind of numbers for Amazon. It's the losing money on every deal but making it up on volume kind of numbers. You are making a couple mistakes in your analysis. 1) You are looking at quarterly performance instead of annual performance for a business that is known to be extremely seasonal. 2) You are ignoring the fact that a large portion of their expenses is depreciation for capital investments to the tune of about $3.2 Billion last year. 3) You are fundamentally incorrect to say they are losing money on every deal. Their gross profit last year was $20 Billion. Why this matters is that when Amazon's business matures and they are no longer in growth mode, those capital investment dollars will drop and their net income will go up significantly on the same gross margins. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:35:41 PM EDT
[#39]
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They were the only players for decades, but when real competition came along, they just sat and withered away - or worse let themselves rot and prices/quality went in the wrong direction. Amazon is going to suffer the same fate, but much faster. They're not profitable, even with their dominance. What's that say? They've not got long to make it, and I doubt they will. I already see problems with their business model that will not be cured by just sticking around. It's the nature of big, successful businesses to lose their way. The last time I placed an Amazon order they were a new online place to buy books. Now I can't google anything without getting a link to Amazon. But I won't buy from them. Number two source for credit card data theft behind iTunes. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:44:38 PM EDT
[#40]
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Financial statements are for faggots? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Has Amazon turned a profit, yet? nope Financial statements are for faggots? It's not like financials for publicly traded companies are public reco... oh wait. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:47:36 PM EDT
[#41]
Remember those Sears catalogues? Wow.....how long ago was that? 30 years. The Christmas catalog? Wow......that was a magical book.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:49:35 PM EDT
[#42]
Plus they closed all their cafeterias
 life was good going to sears to get some tough skins a couple of Kenner Star Wars figures and a hot lunch from the cafeteria
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:50:24 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:51:33 PM EDT
[#44]
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Plus they closed all their cafeterias life was good going to sears to get some tough skins a couple of Kenner Star Wars figures and a hot lunch from the cafeteriaOld memories ! Tough skins and the Sears cafeteria. Life in the USA has changed a bit.....hasn’t it?! |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:53:53 PM EDT
[#45]
Then only reason that K Mart & Sears still exist is because they were bought out by Fast Eddie Lampert. He bought K Mart first & took it through bankruptcy & made a shit ton of dough. Then he bought Sears & did the same thing. He should have sold them for a huge profit right after that, because he was a one trick pony. He hasn't done anything with the merchandising, management, etc. Now he's in a world of hurt, selling off assets like Land's End, the real property that some of the stores sit on, etc.
BTW, the only reason than Amazon exists is because investors let their management sell the product for almost nothing in their bid for market share. It's an idea that worked 100 - 150 years ago with big oil, the railroads, etc. but it's an entirely different economy now. An investor might be able to ride that gravy train for a while but the investment has an unreasonable amount of risk for the average investor. The stock is extremely volatile. It was over $408 on 1/22/14 and at $284 on 10/24/14, so it lost 30%. It's about $335 now so it's gained quite a bit back, but it's a stomach churner. Today's investors are apparently big believers in the greater fool theory because Amazon will have a tough time raising prices some day when their investors actually expect them to make a profit. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:54:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Have you been to a Sears lately. It's walking through a time warp back to 1994.
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Posted: 11/24/2014 12:58:04 PM EDT
[#47]
Amazon has the ol' manager's motto of "if we're losing a dollar on every shipment, we'll just make it up in volume!!"
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Posted: 11/24/2014 1:11:17 PM EDT
[#48]
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You know, I never really thought about that angle, but you are spot on. Lots of things only exist because of grandma. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The only reason they still exist is due to a sizable part of the population that has no idea how to use the Internet. When they die, so do those companies. The only reason they really stay afloat is because they sell the shit you really just don't wants want shipping rates to get; otherwise they are an Amazon showroom. You know, I never really thought about that angle, but you are spot on. Lots of things only exist because of grandma. I was just thinking the same thing. Heck, I'm pushing 50 ( ), and I shop online almost exclusively.
What's going to happen to brick-and-mortar stores in say, the next 20 or 30 years? |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 1:16:06 PM EDT
[#49]
Their EBITDA last year was $3.8 Billion. Net Income reflects significantly lower because of all the capital investments they are making which generates a ton of depreciation on their income statement. What a great invention that whole EBITDA thing was for a big company manager somewhere. I just hear it "Hey, maybe if I can convince the Board that we should ignore a huge part of our expenses...and then base my salary, bonus, etc. on the remainder, I can make huge dough & bail out just before it actually catches up to the bottom line." That was an EMPLOYEE'S thought process, not an entrepreneur's. An entrepreneur would never take that kind of risk unless he was a fool. Not to mention the whole "capital investments" argument. That's a huge risk with somebody else's money. So far the fools are buying in to it, but Amazon is far from a sure thing. Wait till they have to actually make a profit. Their gross profit last year was $20 Billion. Another great employee's idea, for the employee. "Hey, let's just ignore expenses altogether. I should be paid on gross sales dollars, not profit." What kind of company can continue in existence without managing the whole company, including the expenses? |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 1:17:22 PM EDT
[#50]
Amazon has some issues, like making a profit....
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