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Posted: 11/22/2014 3:06:10 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If we could just get new HMMWVs to replace all my broken redlined ones, that'd be pretty great.  Why? The reason they are going away is because the armor has gone past the weight the vehicle is rated for. In 2010 they mandated that the hummers not go outside the wire in Iraq and you could only use MRAPs. They had to start over with a new vehicle to support the weight of the armor and get some mobility back. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 3:08:56 AM EDT
[#2]
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Lets not forget these vehicles are faster, more capable and less maintenance intensive, regardless of weight. I'd love to have an M113 though. For plowing snow or something. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Only tangentially relevant, but I got to play with 2 versions of the BAE Systems entry (that got down-selected a while back) after they were donated to a museum. Pretty cool stuff, and they definitely had some good get-up-and-go to them, despite a 15+ ton weight. 15 tons??? An M113A2 was only 11 tons. 
If you are worried about mines, line the floor with sand bags and sit on top. https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8091/8371486574_0807036328_z.jpg Not once was I hit with a mine the three times my vehicle was hit in 2010. I'm Assuming you know the weapon of choice is an IED. Sitting outside a vehicle not only exposes you to the IED but to direct fire as well. Those days of riding on top of vehicles are over. Lining the floor with sandbags does nothing to protect you. If the blast is underneath and it don't blow right through, the over pressure would still get you. Even those days are mostly over, them using an old school IED. EFPs are where it's at and those will go through one side and right out the other. So yeah, non-armored, thin skinned vehicles are pretty much gone, just like the M113. Lets not forget these vehicles are faster, more capable and less maintenance intensive, regardless of weight. I'd love to have an M113 though. For plowing snow or something. I agree. The hummers days are done. We did what we could with them but they just weren't made for the amount of armor we put on them. You couldn't really go off-road and it was killing the engines. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 3:10:38 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why the fuck would you complicate the shit out a product meant to be used in harsh conditions with shit like that? That is as stupid as the gun tech for the Glock those computer clowns came up with. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You need a truck just to haul around the software specs. Like the engine monitoring software tracks total cam revolutions, like ever. Along with about 50,000 other engine items. The vehicle probably generates 1Tb of data a day. Its about as far from a ww2 jeep as a F22 is from the wright brothers. Why the fuck would you complicate the shit out a product meant to be used in harsh conditions with shit like that? That is as stupid as the gun tech for the Glock those computer clowns came up with. A lot of that is forced by diesel Tier standards. As an aside none of the 3 current competitors manufacture the power plant of their submitted design. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 7:16:54 AM EDT
[#4]
I don't know which one is the best vehicle, but I think the AM General offering is the best looking, clearly drawing heavily on the HMMWV design.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 7:39:18 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hell, we had the answer to this back in '81 http://www.fatmovieguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/EM-50-Urban-Assault-Vehicle1.jpg That's a fact Jack! |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 7:47:48 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I worked on some prototype parts for the Osh Kosh truck. Shits been going on for years. We thought it was dead. This.....but I have a feeling it may go to AM Gen. Just to keep the company alive. But Plasan Sasa designed the composite armor FOR Oshkosh , and also did the M-ATV, so it's got a good chance of ending up at Oshkosh. PLASAN KNOWs THEIR SHIT! |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 7:50:46 AM EDT
[#7]
That would pay for about 1/3 of the border wall with Mexico. Priorities....Nobody has them.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 8:04:35 AM EDT
[#8]
Just get 40k of the Toyota Hilux.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 8:22:16 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If we could just get new HMMWVs to replace all my broken redlined ones, that'd be pretty great. If there was an effecient, streamlined way to take the old ragged out HMMWV's and make them street legal and title-able, without torch cutting the frames, that program would make millions of dollars which could go back into buying new "hummers". |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 8:26:30 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those MATVs are the least comfortable things on earth to ride in. ETA: 95% of the time we just needed "A" truck. Hmmwvs were uncomfortable, leaky, and gas guzzlers. They should just get a fleet of stripped down 4 door ford rangers, paint them tan and put bench seats in the back. We can play with the uparmored stuff when we train. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oshkosh has been making trucks for a long time, so my money's on them. http://www.modernoffroader.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Oshkosh-MRAP-All-Terrain-Vehicle-580x424.jpg Those MATVs are the least comfortable things on earth to ride in. ETA: 95% of the time we just needed "A" truck. Hmmwvs were uncomfortable, leaky, and gas guzzlers. They should just get a fleet of stripped down 4 door ford rangers, paint them tan and put bench seats in the back. We can play with the uparmored stuff when we train. Tacomas in A-stan???: 
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Posted: 11/22/2014 8:35:03 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of that is forced by diesel Tier standards. As an aside none of the 3 current competitors manufacture the power plant of their submitted design. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You need a truck just to haul around the software specs. Like the engine monitoring software tracks total cam revolutions, like ever. Along with about 50,000 other engine items. The vehicle probably generates 1Tb of data a day. Its about as far from a ww2 jeep as a F22 is from the wright brothers. Why the fuck would you complicate the shit out a product meant to be used in harsh conditions with shit like that? That is as stupid as the gun tech for the Glock those computer clowns came up with. A lot of that is forced by diesel Tier standards. As an aside none of the 3 current competitors manufacture the power plant of their submitted design. HARVESTER? CUMMINS? CAT? DETROIT DIESEL? CONTINENTAL? enlighten us please!  |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 8:38:05 AM EDT
[#12]
HiLux
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Posted: 11/22/2014 8:43:57 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those MATVs are the least comfortable things on earth to ride in. ETA: 95% of the time we just needed "A" truck. Hmmwvs were uncomfortable, leaky, and gas guzzlers. They should just get a fleet of stripped down 4 door ford rangers, paint them tan and put bench seats in the back. We can play with the uparmored stuff when we train. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oshkosh has been making trucks for a long time, so my money's on them. http://www.modernoffroader.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Oshkosh-MRAP-All-Terrain-Vehicle-580x424.jpg Those MATVs are the least comfortable things on earth to ride in. ETA: 95% of the time we just needed "A" truck. Hmmwvs were uncomfortable, leaky, and gas guzzlers. They should just get a fleet of stripped down 4 door ford rangers, paint them tan and put bench seats in the back. We can play with the uparmored stuff when we train. The problem wit the MATV was they took a truck that was capable and comfortable and added jammers, armor, BFT, etc. So when you got in there was no room left for you or your rifle. That said, I still think they were better than HMMWV Still think the RG-31 Was the most comfortable up front. God I loved the battle bus |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 8:45:59 AM EDT
[#14]
I've played with the LockMart one, it's pretty awesome....
just saying. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 8:51:15 AM EDT
[#15]
Didn't Cheech and Chong roll in one of these? Is it being manufactured in Colorado?
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Posted: 11/22/2014 9:02:45 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$250k-400k each seems a lot high for a Humvee replacement. What exactly are the mission requirements? The primary mission is to transfer huge amounts of money from the treasury to the owners and executives of the company which gets the contract. At a quarter of a million each (today - the cost will be greater by the time production is completed) it's clear that mission will be accomplished. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 9:10:39 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know which one is the best vehicle, but I think the AM General offering is the best looking, clearly drawing heavily on the HMMWV design. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/AM_General_BRV-O.jpghttp:// flat bottom? |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 9:12:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Oshkosh JLTV is powered by a duramax that's been worked over by a company with a long history of tuning
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Posted: 11/22/2014 9:25:21 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oshkosh JLTV is powered by a duramax that's been worked over by a company with a long history of tuning |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 9:30:11 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isuzu? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oshkosh JLTV is powered by a duramax that's been worked over by a company with a long history of tuning It's an old relationship, and I have crawled all over serial 1 and it's pretty slick http://www.bankspower.com/galesinsidernews/show/58-Banks-Technologies-Diesels-Power-Oshkosh-Extreme-Racing-in-the-Baja-1000 |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 9:34:49 AM EDT
[#21]
If Osh Kosh wins...will they give bib-overalls away with each vehicle? Osh Kosh, B'gosh.  |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 9:54:06 AM EDT
[#22]
Which one's union donated the most money to the DNC? Are any in chapter 11? That's how oshkosh got th last contract.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 9:54:53 AM EDT
[#23]
LockMart knows how to pork, and will probably get it.
But I kinda hope it's OshKosh, just to keep our shit diversified.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 10:15:38 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which one's union donated the most money to the DNC? Are any in chapter 11? That's how oshkosh got th last contract. Used to work for BAE? |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 10:18:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Sh*t. Like we have money to blow. Time to bring back the Willys jeep.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 10:21:51 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$250k-400k each seems a lot high for a Humvee replacement. What exactly are the mission requirements? Obama will give them to ISIS/ISIL to attack and kill the innocent. 
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Posted: 11/22/2014 10:24:01 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryI think i've seen both 1 and 2 on the road around here. APG is nearby, and they have an off base vehicle test range near me. on the road they usually have a 2-3 vehicle escort. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 11:11:18 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Other people are about to select a GMV replacement that fits in a chinook or mv-22, hits speeds the hmmwv can't, and is very capable off road. Played the "buy bigger truck, they build bigger IEDs" game until we were bound to the roads by trucks that couldn't go anywhere else. It's not the best method. I was thinking that it was a case of buying equipment for the war you just got done fighting. Hummers were never meant to be armored cars, my guess was they were supposed to bridge the gap between a jeep and a deuce and a half. Nothing wrong with this program but there needs to be some kind of soft skin go anywhere vehicles too. Maybe bring back the Willys. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 11:42:15 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
HARVESTER? CUMMINS? CAT? DETROIT DIESEL? CONTINENTAL? enlighten us please!
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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You need a truck just to haul around the software specs. Like the engine monitoring software tracks total cam revolutions, like ever. Along with about 50,000 other engine items. The vehicle probably generates 1Tb of data a day. Its about as far from a ww2 jeep as a F22 is from the wright brothers. Why the fuck would you complicate the shit out a product meant to be used in harsh conditions with shit like that? That is as stupid as the gun tech for the Glock those computer clowns came up with. A lot of that is forced by diesel Tier standards. As an aside none of the 3 current competitors manufacture the power plant of their submitted design. CUMMINS? CAT? DETROIT DIESEL? CONTINENTAL? enlighten us please!
Lockheed is a Cummins. Oskosh is a Duramax (M-ATV was a CAT IIRC but CAT stepped out with the new Tier emissions) AM General has an International |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 11:45:52 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was thinking that it was a case of buying equipment for the war you just got done fighting. Hummers were never meant to be armored cars, my guess was they were supposed to bridge the gap between a jeep and a deuce and a half. Nothing wrong with this program but there needs to be some kind of soft skin go anywhere vehicles too. Maybe bring back the Willys. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Other people are about to select a GMV replacement that fits in a chinook or mv-22, hits speeds the hmmwv can't, and is very capable off road. Played the "buy bigger truck, they build bigger IEDs" game until we were bound to the roads by trucks that couldn't go anywhere else. It's not the best method. I was thinking that it was a case of buying equipment for the war you just got done fighting. Hummers were never meant to be armored cars, my guess was they were supposed to bridge the gap between a jeep and a deuce and a half. Nothing wrong with this program but there needs to be some kind of soft skin go anywhere vehicles too. Maybe bring back the Willys. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile While JLTV is billed as a "Hummer replacement" both the Army and Marines stated they would keep X number of Humvees as well. There was also some talk/testing on regular 1 ton pickups. I get the complaint about trying to move cargo from a building to an airstrip inside the wire or on base in one of these fucking things. The "bed" is shoulder height. Just have GM make a new run of CUCV's with Duramax and Allisons for "safe" duties. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 11:49:55 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: makes sense. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Other people are about to select a GMV replacement that fits in a chinook or mv-22, hits speeds the hmmwv can't, and is very capable off road. Played the "buy bigger truck, they build bigger IEDs" game until we were bound to the roads by trucks that couldn't go anywhere else. It's not the best method. messed up? Crew survivability becomes limited, but with the bigger truck = bigger IEDs taking away maneuverability, maybe it could be offset by the ability to blaze new routes.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 11:53:40 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then in that case, at $400,000 each, wouldn't it just make more sense to buy Hiluxs at a 10 to 1 rate, and just throw them away when they get too messed up? Crew survivability becomes limited, but with the bigger truck = bigger IEDs taking away maneuverability, maybe it could be offset by the ability to blaze new routes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Other people are about to select a GMV replacement that fits in a chinook or mv-22, hits speeds the hmmwv can't, and is very capable off road. Played the "buy bigger truck, they build bigger IEDs" game until we were bound to the roads by trucks that couldn't go anywhere else. It's not the best method. messed up? Crew survivability becomes limited, but with the bigger truck = bigger IEDs taking away maneuverability, maybe it could be offset by the ability to blaze new routes. I would be willing to bet any of these three presented are more capable offroad than a Toyota pickup. They're half the weight of the M-ATV, which was the "solution" to the problem caused by MRAPs being too heavy for off road capability. Again, the trucks are not $400,000 each, until mounted with a weapon, communications equipment, etc. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 11:59:58 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$250k-400k each seems a lot high for a Humvee replacement. What exactly are the mission requirements? Well ... you need to spend at least half that to grease the palms of the political machine. The product is probably worth 150k but the other 150k is for kick backs and 500% profits. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 12:04:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would be willing to bet any of these three presented are more capable offroad than a Toyota pickup. They're half the weight of the M-ATV, which was the "solution" to the problem caused by MRAPs being too heavy for off road capability. Again, the trucks are not $400,000 each, until mounted with a weapon, communications equipment, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Other people are about to select a GMV replacement that fits in a chinook or mv-22, hits speeds the hmmwv can't, and is very capable off road. Played the "buy bigger truck, they build bigger IEDs" game until we were bound to the roads by trucks that couldn't go anywhere else. It's not the best method. messed up? Crew survivability becomes limited, but with the bigger truck = bigger IEDs taking away maneuverability, maybe it could be offset by the ability to blaze new routes. I would be willing to bet any of these three presented are more capable offroad than a Toyota pickup. They're half the weight of the M-ATV, which was the "solution" to the problem caused by MRAPs being too heavy for off road capability. Again, the trucks are not $400,000 each, until mounted with a weapon, communications equipment, etc. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 12:09:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fair enough. I must admit I love the games that may be played with calculating the cost of service equipment. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I would be willing to bet any of these three presented are more capable offroad than a Toyota pickup. They're half the weight of the M-ATV, which was the "solution" to the problem caused by MRAPs being too heavy for off road capability. Again, the trucks are not $400,000 each, until mounted with a weapon, communications equipment, etc. Yeah. It's a lot of money for trucks. Like I said before, I think there's a real need for CUCV type pickup trucks and they're probably buying 2x as many of these as necessary. On the other hand, while I'll be at the front of the line to bitch about shit like the F35, given everything we've learned in the last 15 years about the type of warfare we'll likely be involved in over the next 20, I'd hate to have another 2003-2004 where our underequipped soldiers are getting the shit blown out of them when we had the opportunity to prevent it. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 12:54:23 PM EDT
[#36]
Whatever we choose it needs to run Red Bull! If the Russians can make this thing fly in Dakar think of what we can do!
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Posted: 11/22/2014 1:44:55 PM EDT
[#37]
That thing is cool
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Posted: 11/22/2014 1:59:03 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Used to work for BAE? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Which one's union donated the most money to the DNC? Are any in chapter 11? That's how oshkosh got th last contract. Used to work for BAE? lol probably that's why oshkosh got the FMTV because BAE couldnt deliver, and it was inferior Defense is 1 segment of oshkosh, granted its the biggest, but they diversified for a reason. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 2:02:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oshkosh has been making trucks for a long time, so my money's on them. http://www.modernoffroader.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Oshkosh-MRAP-All-Terrain-Vehicle-580x424.jpg That damn thing 2x too big. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 2:05:07 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryAll 2x too big. Fucking stupid. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 2:06:00 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All 2x too big. Fucking stupid. Quote HistoryQuoted:
All 2x too big. Fucking stupid. the smaller ones were blowing up to easily |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 2:13:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the smaller ones were blowing up to easily Quote HistoryQuoted:
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All 2x too big. Fucking stupid. the smaller ones were blowing up to easily Then I suppose stay off the roads that are blowing up or maybe you need to make some friends in the area. Booby traps are not a new concept. Building a bigger, heavier, more expensive, resource intensive bullet magnet is stupid. Might as well give everyone Brads and Strykers. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 2:25:17 PM EDT
[#43]
The problem with those trucks is it only allows one gunner to engage targets from the top turret everyone else is just sitting inside taking rounds from all directions making it a bullet magnet. They need to build gun ports for every door so everyone can return fire and not just sit there and be useless during an ambush. At least on a BMP every person has there own gun port..
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Posted: 11/22/2014 2:28:15 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem with those trucks is it only allows one gunner to engage targets from the top turret everyone else is just sitting inside taking rounds from all directions making it a bullet magnet. They need to build gun ports for every door so everyone can return fire and not just sit there and be useless during an ambush. At least on a BMP every person has there own gun port.. Firing ports may make the riders feel good but it is waste of ammo |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 2:54:51 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryIt's definitely not an option overseas for the conventional guys, but just conus. Multiple times a week we just needed a TRUCK to transport guys with equipment that couldn't go in our civ vehicles, and it was always a nightmare trying to juggle our seven vehicles. Our trucks broken down all the time, shit was missing on them, and they were generally not fun to drive around in all throughout the year.. but god damnit they were parked straight. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 2:58:30 PM EDT
[#46]
So, the question they have to be asking themselves is how well ISIS will look driving them around after our next debacle in the middle east.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 3:07:57 PM EDT
[#47]
I hope Oshkosh gets it, I work for their non defense segment that will supply them parts for it.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 3:08:55 PM EDT
[#48]
Looks like some big money to be thrown around.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 3:11:36 PM EDT
[#49]
All that money.... and Joe will fuck it up in less than hour... |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 3:13:56 PM EDT
[#50]
I hope Oshkosh gets the contract the M ATV has been one of my favorite land vehicles to work out of, plus it looks cool
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