Sooooo... Decriminalizing open carry in public is somehow damaging to private property rights?

I'd love to hear your logic on this.





Yet this keeps right on not being a problem in states with Open Carry.

But keep spewing bullshit.


How's things in California? Have y'all decriminalized rape yet? It's the next logical step now that burglary is a ticket offense.

No, you mentioned a bunch of problems that the Texas legislature has nothing to do with in a thread about bills being introduced in the Texas house of representatives, then proceeded to herp all over the place slamming people for supporting these efforts.

If people supporting OC in another State is "Derpy" then how derpy are you for taking time out to berate them?

Did someone light the Dude symbol over your stately manor for Texans attempting to legalize OC?

Good luck down there, if all else fails just move up here it's much nicer and more gun friendly.

How much does land cost in Alaska?

I can't believe there are people rooting AGAINST more freedom than they have now.  

Welcome to the plantation.  Here is your pitchfork and shovel.  

OC isn't just for OC's sake.   Having this law on the books removes the issue of the sight of a firearm being used as automatic probable cause and/or a reason to conduct a harassing and intrusive stop.   At least up here it also offers other layers of protection from game wardens intending to screw with you.  

It offers more protection than what it says.   I will be in TX in a few years and would like to see this go through.  The sky has not fallen in Pennsylvania in the dozen years that I've lived here.  Most people DON'T open carry for many of the good reasons mentioned.  Don't use today as the only measure of circumstance when it might be needed.  

If I remember correctly, the constitution affirms the right to "keep and BEAR" not "keep and hide."  

ETA - POLITICAL CONSIDERATIONS:

The fight for our rights hasn't been properly conducted.  We've been conditioned to accept standing still as victory.   "we defeated a gun control bill - VICTORY!!"  Bullshit.  You played defense and prevented the opposition from gaining yardage toward their ultimate goal.  

We don't have a long game.  Our strategy thus far has been to fight only to prevent the offense from gaining ground.   Every time we win, we gain NOTHING.  Every time they win, they gain yards and we lose them.  

This is one of those plays where we can actually move down field.    

There is no game that can be won on defense alone.  Especially this one.  Like a tax, it's extremely rare that any gun control legislation goes away.  Victory means gaining new freedom, and that means we have to play offense.  We need to recondition the thinking of the pro-gun politicians into seeing victory as measurable advancement, not a slow retreat.  

I saw a cowboy hat wearing guy open carrying at a Walmart yesterday.  He was there with his sweetie at the jewelry counter.

A strong gun culture is far more important. In fact, it is the counterbalance to most of the problems mentioned.

krpind,

We will have to disagree.

When you look at what happened in Maryland, Colorado, New York State (three states that just enacted some type of bans), and the complete lack of advancement of rights on the federal level over the past several YEARS legislatively, I don't hold that the advancement of firearm rights is on anything CLOSE to a winning streak.  I'm sorry but it's just not so.  

We have to take every yard we can, just like the anti's do.  There's no "hail mary" coming to slap anyone down.  It hasn't happened up to now and it makes no sense to invest in it.  

It needs to be won one yard at a time.  

They have a long game.  No guns for anybody.   They work toward that relentlessly, one inch at a time.  It's their holiest sacrament. They are all on board, the new keep swearing allegiance to it and it transcends political administrations effortlessly.  

What's OUR long game?  

What is our vision for exactly what shape firearms ownership and use should ultimately be?  

Unless we memorialize those goals, we're working at standing still, and we will lose, because we define slowing the ultimate advancement of the enemy a "victory."

Whatever you say big guy

If that's the case, you should easily be able to spell out the specific plays that brought us there, and how many yards they bought.   I've given three very specific examples.  The import ban of 7n6 not a month ago is a fourth, and a federal one at that.  So we're at the 44 yard line.  

I'm not looking for an argument, I want you to be right.  Whatever you are calling progress looks utterly motionless to me.

Passing this legislation is a yardage gain.  I hope you do not disagree with that.  

It's as I figured.   You view progress as zero motion forward.  


Here's Heller:

--------

In DC, people once had the right to keep and bear firearms.  

The dems infringed (gained yards) by denying the right of a person in DC to keep a firearm in their home.  

Heller reversed that, bringing it back to people having the right to keep and bear firearms, albeit in extremely limited circumstances, and with onerous government barriers to overcome.  

--------

It's essentially nothing more than a penalty flag on their play.    No gains at all.  

I wish this thing had a " Like" button!

Very good post.

I assure you I am not.   We've gotten a few rights restored that have been incorrectly infringed upon, and we've put down some of the offenses plays, but that's not gains.

We've established through your proffering Heller as the staggering victory that put us a yard from the end zone:

1 - You view the return of an improperly stolen 'piece' of our rights as a yardage gain.   I don't.  

2 - You don't see the passage of three state level bans and an arbitrary federal ammunition ban as a problem.  To you, somehow that's #winning.  <?>

3 - We are thinking on different scales.   If you attain gun rights nirvana driving home from wal-mart with your truck-pistol, what else is there to fight for?  This is exactly the reason no real progress gets made.  Everyone stops caring once they've been restored the right to their truck-pistol or whatever it is that ignited them in the first place.  Game over, nothing else to pursue.  

I am thinking about where we SHOULD be, and in which direction we should go.  I am not satisfied where we are AT.  

We are on the same side nonetheless, and I respect your opinion and value you as an ally.  

Thanks for the discussion.

A few recent losses aside, we've been kicking the shit out of the anti gunners for years. There's no real room for discussion here.

CHL laws alone are better for us than they've been since the 1920's.

The NFA market is insane. Anti gun candidates get their asses handed to them in the vast majority of the country.

If you aren't enjoying how much we're winning, you're definitely new to the fight.

Yep.  Especially in Texas.  We've done a lot in just 20 years.

I see three dumbasses in two pictures. If you're open carrying a rifle in a public place, I.E. a city, you're a dumbass. Now I know some basement dweller just jumped and squealed, "They carry rifles in Baghdad!" Well your fat ass isn't in Baghdad, and the odds of you getting into a firefight where rifles are the du jour is about the same as you winning the lottery, taking your winnings to buy another ticket, and winning the next day.

Some other basement dweller just sputtered around his mouthful of delicious mommie meatloaf (Wipe that up, neckbeard) thinking, "But the cops carry rifles in cities!" Yes, sometimes they do, and sometimes they also point them at people who have done nothing wrong. In BOTH instances the moment you're walking around with a rifle in an official capacity you have officially lost the PR battle and made the transition from, "Officer" to "Oppressor."

I wouldn't be surprised if some OC freaks were trying to somehow carry a crew served weapon or an M2 because, "it's mah rights!"

You wackos are worse on public sentiment for the 2nd Amendment than Boxer, Feinstein, and Schumer could ever wish to be combined, it's why I maintain that the OCtards are liberal plants.

There are more gun owners with sand in their manginas over OC than there are actual anti or neutral gun folks. There are so many Big Law Fudds in the ranks here in Texas, still, that they will be very tough to defeat. Think Joaquin Jackson.. They are the ones to fight against, as much, or more, than the actual antis. They're the rovites in the political realm who fuck up about everything they touch. I may never OC, but would never dream of being against a giant step towards fewer restrictions.

So you only defend the 2nd Amendment when it's not embarrassing?

 

You standing about being a moron with a rifle in a public place, and I'm talking about the city (AKA Where most people live), not some small town or out in East Grabass Mississippi where that kind of thing is not only accepted but expected, is embarrassing to not only yourself but gun owners as a whole and YOU ARE MAKING THE REST OF US LOOK BAD! Not only do you make us look bad, but you are *ACTIVELY* turning people away from us. You are all collectively the big Blue Falcon of the group. How many people see you guys and say to themselves:

A. "Boy, there goes someone who has their head on straight!"

Vs.

B. "Look at this fucking shitbrained retarded misanthrope! Why is this idiot walking around with a rifle? Probably just escaped mom's basement and wants a little attention"

Group B wins in a landslide. Hell, they're saying that if you're OCing a pistol too.

Some Rocket Surgeon in this very thread said, "Durrrrr See those people in the line there, do they look concerned?" Of course not, why would they? They know you're only harmless to that delicious meatloaf. But they're damned sure thinking, "Those guys are a couple real winners there!"

Every time you assholes have one of these fucking rallies, or tries to make a stupid stunt like walking around a neighborhood with an M4 on your back to fuck with the cops and record that for Youtube, you literally set gun rights back twenty times more than every story about a CCW'er stopping a crazed maniac trying to shoot up a mall/school.

And you doing such has zero to do with the 2nd Amendment. So while I'll defend the 2nd Amendment I'm not going to even remotely connect you plebs with the 2nd Amendment. You keep trying, desperately hard to wrap yourself and your fight in the Constitution and, honestly, it's pretty pathetic and disingenuous. Please, just stop.

As far as the law and carrying firearms go, it's as liberal as it's ever been since the 1870s.

In Texas, generally speaking, it is illegal to openly carry a handgun.

It is legal, generally speaking, to carry a rifle.

Also, knock off the name-calling.  You are embarrassing yourself far more than the people you display such unwarranted contempt for.

Kinda assuming I open carry rifles up and down the street on your part.  I have open carried a long knife (TX) and a handgun (outside TX) though.


 

Okay, if it's legal, strap on your M4 and take a walk along the Riverwalk in San Antonio.

And no, the OCtards are fucking idiots. They're actively damaging our rights so they'll be called anything I want.

Why are you so concerned about the push to get open carry in Texas?  Shouldn't you be working toward getting rid of having to ask permission from the state to own or sell a handgun?  The thought of having to grovel before a bureaucrat just to be able to own a means to protect yourself, is really demeaning.

No, you're correct.  Legalizing unlicensed carry is much more important than legalizing open carry.  Every other state that's legalized unlicensed CCW had legal OC before that, but that doesn't mean that Texas necessarily has to go that route.

This.

TRG

You're both wrong.

It is ABSOLUTELY about image.

Because currently whenever someone thinks Open Carry they're thinking fatass and slim at Chipotle rocking moonboots and a piece of shit SKS at low ready. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be around those two fucking morons, and would very much prefer if they didn't carry open or at all, and I like guns. For all the sheep who see that, the amount of damage people like that do to your cause is immeasurable.

If the OC bunch can't get their image straight, they're never going to get what they want. People vote and contact their elected representatives based 100% on image alone.

I mean, Fuck's sakes, women overwhelmingly loved John Edwards because they thought he was cute. PERIOD! They backed that fucking idiot based on his image alone. Of course, they also pretty much abandoned him 1000% when it came out that he was a womanizer too, which has nothing to do with his ability to lead or be a good politician. IMAGE is what is going to get you what you want, and quite honestly the OCtards lose that battle right out of the gate.

I have contacted My reps office twice, once to encourage support for,195, and the second time, THEY called me to get my take on 195.

 

I wish this thing had a " Like" button!

And this is about Texas.  Pour the sand out of your vag and quit looking at this thread if it offends your eyes so much.

Attention whoring worked for the homosexual community, so why not.

=


People are going to learn one way or another that the 2A (just as the 1A) isn't going away just because it makes you feel uncomfortable.

Where's the outrage about this? Oh yeah, no one dares say a thing, otherwise you are a racist and trying to suppress them. But if you're in the picture above, that makes you a racist, crazy, gun-toting, bible-clinging, Constitution-loving, intimidating attention whore.
Black Panthers OCing in TX

It doesn't matter. The point is that we should all support bills that roll back restrictions and expand freedom (even if it's freedom that you don't personally like), because it's the right thing to do.  

How do you think OCT got started carrying rifles anyway?  They did it because OC'ing a handgun is illegal in TX, but carrying rifles/shotguns is not, and a legally OC'd rifle illustrates this absurdity quite clearly.  If anything, the anti-rifle-OC crowd should be vehemently supporting legalization of pistol OC because it will remove the original protest reason for OC'ing rifles!  

The purpose of this thread was to get people to voice support for the OC bills being brought before the TX legislature this session.  So, how about it?  Do you support the legalization of OC or don't you?

You really have no clue on this one, do you Andy.

It's not me you have to avoid offending. I personally don't give a fuck if you want to fulfill your little wet dream of goobering around with an M2HB strapped to your back because, "Mah Rights!"

It's everyone else that thinks you look like a fucknut and pester their representatives with pictures of you looking like a retard.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA That is *LITERALLY* the most ridiculous thing I've read in a LONG time. Please, give me a moment while I get my Forrest Whitaker eye from reading this little gem back to normal.

It *ABSOLUTELY* matters. The point is that if you can't get your image straight and not look like a bunch of nutballs, you're never going to get your way, be it right or wrong. I was just watching Youtube videos of that Marine who wrote a letter to Feinswine a while back telling her basically that she was an idiot and that her wrongheaded, zombielike fixation on guns is never going to save even one life. The CNN anchor says, "Well if your guns are outlawed, what are you going to do?" He replies, "Unconstitutional Laws aren't laws." And he is RIGHT! Absolutely right. But she still pulls a face on national television that had, "This guy is a fucking nutjob." written all over it and anyone with two neurons to rub together knows that he is absolutely right!

He got proven right in the end because her side lost because he didn't dress like a fucking nutjob, and instead wore a tie, talked eloquently, and didn't brandish a rifle. We won that fight in a big way.  

Whether you're abso-fucking-lutely right or not, you're not going to get any support whatsoever if nobody wants to be seen around you. Support equals votes. If I came out in support of mandatory death penalty for child molesters dressed like the grim reaper... hmm... yeah, bad example. People would vote for that overwhelmingly.



And I'll wholeheartedly agree that it is a stupid law. I'm not going to personally OC, considering that IMHO it is pretty stupid to give up the tactical advantage of "Who has the gun?", but your choice is your choice. That said, crazy idea here: How about not carrying guns at all? Or have everyone CCWing and carry a sign saying so. Bumper Stickers, yard signs, flyers, and grassroots lobbying. Walking around with a rifle makes you look like an attention whoring turd. Especially when everyone piles into a restaurant who doesn't want that kind of thing there just to piss them off or walks around an urban area trying to freak people out to get police attention..

So, I'm hearing a "no" as the answer to that question.  Fair enough.  

I'm all for dressing nicely and creating a good impression.  That's fine and should be encouraged, but I'm not going to berate someone for being too fat or not wearing a tie if he chooses not to.  As far as creating good impressions, It's a lot more important to be personable, courteous, and willing to explain your positions in a coherent and reasoned manner.  

At the end of the day, though, we should still ALL be supporting bills like this that give people more freedom.  Yes, that includes fat people, ugly people, and even people with Forrest Whitaker eye.  Sorry if you think that's ridiculous.

Hard to convince normal gun owners to jump in with a bunch of asshats, you know, those that have led the open carry movement.. initiating pointless confrontations with business owners and police..  We're not embarrassed, we just choose our friends wisely and most of us got enough attention from our parents when we were kids.

It's those "normal gun owners" who don't support the 2nd Amendment.  That's what needs to change.

Yeah, we should all start carrying slung ar15's while "helping our son's complete their hiking merit badge" or "while placing our order at Chipotle."  Chipotle and Target are private businesses and maintain  some rights as property owners, such as the the right to deny/service or access to anyone.  I believe any business should be allowed to refuse service/allow access to anyone even if the denial is of a "protected class" of person, ie. "Let's find out who the racists or bigots, or anti-gunners are and simply do not do business with them."  A great many open carry advocates appear to be filling the void between Comi-Con and the next Airsoft Expo, not just in personal hygiene and level of fitness, but also in their inability to communicate their message effectively which applies to demeanor and method of protest...

















Now I'll bail this one out myself though..., can we get her on women of arcom?







 

I agree.  Most gun owners don't care about improving the law, can't be bothered to even do the bare minimum like join (much less actively support) the NRA and TSRA....much less actively work with/lobby their legislators.  Their apathy is an issue.

I think the NRA should have kept its distance from the open carry movements because they are now toxic, instead of apologizing.  I have ACTUALLY spoken to legislators about my support for 2A and written letter of support for legislation to them.  I usually include my something about my background/demographic which lets them know not all of us are wearing replica guns to the capitol to provoke the police.  The reason we don't have open carry in Texas is the Open Carry movement in Texas.  No legislator now wants to be associated with these groups because of their public image.





 

Fortunately the MDA side of this issue has had their share of derp. At this point, I think the OCT derp and the MDA derp has cancelled each other out. Both group's 15 minutes of fame has faded as the OC issue has become more out in front of the public through news media and the Abbott win. The multitude of bills filed will keep the mainstream media reporting on both sides. I do expect that both OCT and MDA antics will resurface once next year's session gets underway. As long as both of these groups maintain their past level of derpness, I see no real damage. The life expectency of these fringe protests is very short.

The issue is now mainstream. My biggest concern is if the Speaker will block the bills from coming to the floor of the general session once they make it through committee (I believe this is where past bills got derailed).

Time will tell, but I'm doing my part to lobby my representatives to support all of the pro-gun bills!!!!!

For the record, on the case outside Waco (first Pic I believe is same guy or looks damn close)  I do not believe the police officer or the guy with the AR15 handled that situation well, blame to go around.  The Vet on the capitol steps accomplished nothing except a great clip for Alex Jones' show by getting arrested.  How much better would it have been if it had gone down like this on camera: "Officer, Its not an actual firearm, Its a replica, you may check it out if you like.  My point is that my real firearm is no more dangerous on these steps than this replica as I'm a law-abiding citizen." Yes,I know he said "I don't have a gun" which different than letting the officer know he has a replica...  

Jesus fucking derp. Again with the wrapping yourself in the constitution. How about just carrying concealed?

OC has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment.

I never said that I didn't support your doing so, but because you're so wed to this issue you can't wrap your head around the fact that a bunch of neckbeards rocking rifles in a public place is frowned upon greatly. I Simply said, how about not open carrying rifles at your rallies and ccw instead or don't carry them at all. I'm more concerned with your image in the eyes of the public in regards to the 2nd amendment than with curtailing your rights. But hey, don't let me stop you when you're balls deep in a strawman.

Please explain how you're going to courteously explain your position to people who already think you're a retard or are afraid to be seen talking or might be actually afraid of the obviously mentally disturbed individual with an AR in a three point in low ready, because I'd LOVE to hear it. I wouldn't want to talk to your ass and I am an out and out gun nut for the simple reason that a large percentage of you look like a pack of wing nuts that only the occupy wall street crowd would be proud of.