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Posted: 10/30/2014 1:50:02 PM EDT
[#1]
I work for a neighboring agency where this happened. It was a Beechcraft Super King Air that crashed and it crashed on top of the building not so much into the building. On the local news there is currently a video being shown that is cell phone video that some of the local media is shooting. Building does not appear to be collapsed and no reports of rescuer injuries.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 1:53:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I work for a neighboring agency where this happened. It was a Beechcraft Super King Air that crashed and it crashed on top of the building not so much into the building. On the local news there is currently a video being shown that is cell phone video that some of the local media is shooting. Building does not appear to be collapsed and no reports of rescuer injuries. Externally maybe. The fire fighters on scene are reporting a partial collapse. Video shows that the impact seems pretty close to what you are saying. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:04:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Local news claims that the pilot reported problems with engine temp and was going to turn back and land. The engine then failed during the return.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:07:35 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What I am finding is the plane has recently been purchased by Beechcraft, and just finished a phase 1-4 inspections yesterday. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:10:19 PM EDT
[#5]
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Heading to Mena, AR. Maintenance in Wichita then refitting in Mena? To the guy who wanted to know where the pilot was from....sounded like an older white guy on LiveATC. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The aircraft just got done with a major inspection. Somebody is going to have their shit inspected. 
Calling it Phase 1-4 major inspection. The last flight shown on Flightaware was September 16, 2014. It is possible that this was the first flight after inspection to verify the airworthiness? Very possible, but maintenance acceptance flights are often VFR, so I don't know if most tracking software would see it. Heading to Mena, AR. Maintenance in Wichita then refitting in Mena? To the guy who wanted to know where the pilot was from....sounded like an older white guy on LiveATC. Probably going to get repainted in Mena. Probably traded by the prior to Beechcraft on partial for a upgrade aircraft, and Beech inspects, repaints and puts it on the market. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:10:49 PM EDT
[#6]
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Plane just out of inspection crashes and kills people at least partly due to an engine failure? Lawyers for the victims are going to have a field day with that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What I am finding is the plane has recently been purchased by Beechcraft, and just finished a phase 1-4 inspections yesterday. No doubt. The lawyers will be all over it. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:11:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Plane just out of inspection crashes and kills people at least partly due to an engine failure? Lawyers for the victims are going to have a field day with that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What I am finding is the plane has recently been purchased by Beechcraft, and just finished a phase 1-4 inspections yesterday. Yup... Somebody is about to get loved tenderly. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:14:13 PM EDT
[#8]
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That is what someone would do if they know what they are doing. General aviation, not so much. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My local news said the plane lost an engine on takeoff Tried to turn back and didn't make the runway. Runway heading to at LEAST 1000 feet....... Then, and ONLY THEN, think about turning...... IF it all quits, point it straight ahead, and aim for something cheap and soft...... Turning back to the runway almost NEVER works out well.......Engine out, in a bit of a panic, airspeed drops, steep turn, and STALL......with NO ROOM or altitude to recover..... That is what someone would do if they know what they are doing. General aviation, not so much. Ive seen some good recoveries by GA pilots. I've also seen some that were not so good. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:15:39 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably going to get repainted in Mena. Probably traded by the prior to Beechcraft on partial for a upgrade aircraft, and Beech inspects, repaints and puts it on the market. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The aircraft just got done with a major inspection. Somebody is going to have their shit inspected.
Calling it Phase 1-4 major inspection. The last flight shown on Flightaware was September 16, 2014. It is possible that this was the first flight after inspection to verify the airworthiness? Very possible, but maintenance acceptance flights are often VFR, so I don't know if most tracking software would see it. Heading to Mena, AR. Maintenance in Wichita then refitting in Mena? To the guy who wanted to know where the pilot was from....sounded like an older white guy on LiveATC. Probably going to get repainted in Mena. Probably traded by the prior to Beechcraft on partial for a upgrade aircraft, and Beech inspects, repaints and puts it on the market. Beechcraft purchased it from the previous owner, and had just sold it to a customer. It was in the process of being flown to Mena to be retro fitted with a new interior. Pilot and B200 owner at the airport is saying the plane was possibly returning to the airport after losing the engine on climb out. Speculation is the prop either didn't autofeather or didn't feather properly and he ran out of rudder. They are saying the plane went in left wing low with the nose down right at the top of the roof. I assume that it why there is a gash in the wall, from the low wing. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:17:54 PM EDT
[#10]
I had an engine failure just after take off in a Brasilia E120. proficiency, planning, and good pre-departure briefing made it a low stress event.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:23:01 PM EDT
[#11]
They are saying the plane went into the sim bay. Which would explain why the firefighters reported 3 fatalities in sims.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:24:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had an engine failure just after take off in a Brasilia E120. proficiency, planning, and good pre-departure briefing made it a low stress event. Cause? |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:29:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Local Wichita news showed a close shot of the building looking directly into the hole.
Second floor of the building is gutted about 3/4 of the way through. You can see the partial collapse.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:30:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Sad news.
Left engine failure, I wonder if there is a type of failure on a turboprop that would prevent the pilot from feathering the propeller on the dead engine ? Even with full right rudder that might not be enough to overcome the drag created from pitch set to fine for take off. It does not look like the pilot was trying to turn the aircraft around but rather lost it due to the drag created from the dead engine. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:35:41 PM EDT
[#15]
Damn
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:49:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sad news. Left engine failure, I wonder if there is a type of failure on a turboprop that would prevent the pilot from feathering the propeller on the dead engine ? Even with full right rudder that might not be enough to overcome the drag created from pitch set to fine for take off. It does not look like the pilot was trying to turn the aircraft around but rather lost it due to the drag created from the dead engine. Autofeather failure (or failure to arm before takeoff) not recognized by the pilot? |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:51:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Shit! I have an interview with them Tuesday.
ICT that is, not Flight Safety. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 2:55:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Autofeather failure (or failure to arm before takeoff) not recognized by the pilot? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sad news. Left engine failure, I wonder if there is a type of failure on a turboprop that would prevent the pilot from feathering the propeller on the dead engine ? Even with full right rudder that might not be enough to overcome the drag created from pitch set to fine for take off. It does not look like the pilot was trying to turn the aircraft around but rather lost it due to the drag created from the dead engine. Autofeather failure (or failure to arm before takeoff) not recognized by the pilot? Yes, thank you for putting the words out there I was searching for. I am sadly thinking the pilot made a huge mistake.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:01:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are saying the plane went into the sim bay. Which would explain why the firefighters reported 3 fatalities in sims. Shit got real now that you can even die in a simulator :( :( |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:01:41 PM EDT
[#20]
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The only reason I made that comment is because he made the radio call saying he lost the engine. If he had his hands full, talking on the radio has zero priority. Aviate, navigate, communicate. That right there is a fuck up, and not the first time somebody hit the ground talking on the radio instead of flying the aircraft, nor will it he the last. I'm sure the NTSB will list that as a contributing factor. No reason to call it a major factor just yet. Especially since we don't know how well engine out procedures were followed (well other than communicating not being high on the list) |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:04:04 PM EDT
[#21]
CNN is saying 4 dead, 5 injured, 4 missing.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:04:15 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm sure the NTSB will list that as a contributing factor. No reason to call it a major factor just yet. Especially since we don't know how well engine out procedures were followed (well other than communicating not being high on the list) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The only reason I made that comment is because he made the radio call saying he lost the engine. If he had his hands full, talking on the radio has zero priority. Aviate, navigate, communicate. That right there is a fuck up, and not the first time somebody hit the ground talking on the radio instead of flying the aircraft, nor will it he the last. I'm sure the NTSB will list that as a contributing factor. No reason to call it a major factor just yet. Especially since we don't know how well engine out procedures were followed (well other than communicating not being high on the list) Kind of eerie how calm the pilot sounded in his emergency declaration. He sure didn't sound distressed. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:07:54 PM EDT
[#23]
if the gearbox overheated, could that seize up the prop and make feathering malfunction or fail?
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:08:10 PM EDT
[#24]
Just had one of our pilots come back from training there. Prayers and condolences to everyone. Hope the remaining missing are just lost in the chaos. And instead of joking about the mechanics fucking up, how about a little hope that it was just a freak event that caused the engine failure. How many a&p's are in here that have had to wonder if they just killed someone? I'll start the count. 1 (spacial disorientation caused the pilot to clip a tree and nose dive. Killed him, 1 on ground and 90% burns on the deceaseds husband. But it was a month after annual. Not a good feeling)
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:18:23 PM EDT
[#25]
I wonder if the pilot shut the wrong engine down after the overheat. . . .
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:18:52 PM EDT
[#26]
They just let the pilots name slip on the live feed.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:21:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if the gearbox overheated, could that seize up the prop and make feathering malfunction or fail? I'm not a PT-6 guru by any means, but the PT-6 has a history of gearbox failures in which the prop was still able to be feathered successfully. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:24:59 PM EDT
[#28]
Sad story
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:31:02 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if the gearbox overheated, could that seize up the prop and make feathering malfunction or fail? even if the prop couldn't be feathered, the stopped prop from a gearbox seizure would create less drag than a windmilling prop. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:32:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
even if the prop couldn't be feathered, the stopped prop from a gearbox seizure would create less drag than a windmilling prop. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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if the gearbox overheated, could that seize up the prop and make feathering malfunction or fail? even if the prop couldn't be feathered, the stopped prop from a gearbox seizure would create less drag than a windmilling prop. I would suppose it all depends weather it is a contained or uncontaminated failure. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:34:25 PM EDT
[#31]
My dad worked with the pilot for years. I also knew him. They just released his name. He was an air traffic controller for a long time and flew part time as well. I understand that he had a lot of flight time.
RIP
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:36:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not a PT-6 guru by any means, but the PT-6 has a history of gearbox failures in which the prop was still able to be feathered successfully. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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if the gearbox overheated, could that seize up the prop and make feathering malfunction or fail? I'm not a PT-6 guru by any means, but the PT-6 has a history of gearbox failures in which the prop was still able to be feathered successfully. Highly unlikely. VMC roll, rudderboost, or autofeather failure.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:36:54 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My dad worked with the pilot for years. I also knew him. They just released his name. He was an air traffic controller for a long time and flew part time as well. I understand that he had a lot of flight time. RIP If he was a ferry pilot you would expect that he would be very competent. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:41:06 PM EDT
[#34]
They just released his name. Mark Goldstien. He was an retired FAA employee and an very experienced multi type rated pilot.
R.I.P Mark.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:43:48 PM EDT
[#35]
Looks like I may have jumped the gun if he had an eng over temp made the radio call then lost or shut down the eng
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:46:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Highly unlikely. VMC roll, rudderboost, or autofeather failure. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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if the gearbox overheated, could that seize up the prop and make feathering malfunction or fail? I'm not a PT-6 guru by any means, but the PT-6 has a history of gearbox failures in which the prop was still able to be feathered successfully. Highly unlikely. VMC roll, rudderboost, or autofeather failure. Just doing a little looking around I see there was some issues with PT-6 prop assys. called Prop-Sleeve touchdown. Which could cause the prop to get stuck flat. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 4:14:55 PM EDT
[#37]
They are saying there were around 100 people in Flight Safety when the crash happened. Lots of lucky people, |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 4:16:38 PM EDT
[#38]
They are reporting 4 dead 5 injured and none missing now.
All accounted for. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 4:19:08 PM EDT
[#39]
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They are reporting 4 dead 5 injured and none missing now. All accounted for. This is better than expected |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 4:22:40 PM EDT
[#40]
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This is better than expected Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They are reporting 4 dead 5 injured and none missing now. All accounted for. This is better than expected Now they are saying 3 of the 5 injured were released from the hospital. Some good news. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 4:27:07 PM EDT
[#41]
Suppose to start recurrent there on Monday. Thankful we werent there this week. Part of my flight crew would've been in sim from the 10-2 slot.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 4:32:35 PM EDT
[#42]
This sucks.
Reminds me of AA 191, minus literally losing the engine. 
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Posted: 10/30/2014 4:34:09 PM EDT
[#43]
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Shit. which airlines use that particular Flight Safety? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hit the Safety Building (yes, ironic). flight safety - it's a flight training school Shit. which airlines use that particular Flight Safety? No major airline is based at Wichita, so it is unlikely that any airline pilots would be using that facility. It costs too much to send pilots away from their base for sim time. At Wichita it's probably business and private pilots doing upgrade training on Cessna products. Much the same for Flight Safety in Wilmington, DE or Savannah, GA. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 4:39:05 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This sucks. Reminds me of AA 191, minus literally losing the engine. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/Aa191_ohare.jpg Not even close. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 4:44:37 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 10/30/2014 4:46:51 PM EDT
[#46]
Dying in a plane crash while flying a sim at a place with the name FlightSafety is morbidly ironic.
RIP to all.
I'm sure there are a lot of puckered up sphincters in Wichita right now. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 4:47:39 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote Historysingle engine sucks more when one engine quits this has to be more than just an eng failure |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 4:49:49 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
single engine sucks more when one engine quits this has to be more than just an eng failure Quote HistoryQuoted:
single engine sucks more when one engine quits this has to be more than just an eng failure You need not worry about asymmetric thrust with a single engine failure. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 4:58:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryWow, that's not anything like what I imagined a crash caused by one engine out on a twin engined plane would look like. It appeared to be mushing along in a straight line and then abruptly pitched over and crashed. Was the departure caused by a stall and then the differential thrust caused the powered wing to go up and over? |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:01:48 PM EDT
[#50]
Just thinking out loud,
Depending on which fuel control this had (assuming -42 engines), a loss of N1 input to the fuel control (pump shaft failure) will cause a near immediate overtemp/torque and shell the engine. We had one here do this not too long ago. |
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