User Panel
[#1]
I received a copy of "Northwest Catholic" magazine in the mail. The article "Lost in Space" discusses astronomy and cosmology. There's nothing in that article that a
scientifically literate person would disagree with. |
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[#3]
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I didn't do that. I never said "all Catholics". Why are you guys so determined to argue? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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If you're going to extend the remarks of one Catholic to all Catholics, then it would only be fair to extend the remarks of any non-Catholic to all non-Catholics. I didn't do that. I never said "all Catholics". Why are you guys so determined to argue? They want you to say that they're going to heaven, even if they're aren't reborn. |
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[#4]
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They want you to say that they're going to heaven, even if they're aren't reborn. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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If you're going to extend the remarks of one Catholic to all Catholics, then it would only be fair to extend the remarks of any non-Catholic to all non-Catholics. I didn't do that. I never said "all Catholics". Why are you guys so determined to argue? They want you to say that they're going to heaven, even if they're aren't reborn. I don't need O_P to say that. I'll settle for Jesus. O_P is, of course, entitled to his opinion--based on what he thinks the Bible says. Right? |
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[#5]
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They want you to say that they're going to heaven, even if they're aren't reborn. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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If you're going to extend the remarks of one Catholic to all Catholics, then it would only be fair to extend the remarks of any non-Catholic to all non-Catholics. I didn't do that. I never said "all Catholics". Why are you guys so determined to argue? They want you to say that they're going to heaven, even if they're aren't reborn. That's funny. I was reborn at baptism just like everyone else... |
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[#6]
Quoted: And here's an example of what you said didn't occur: View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Here's an interesting exercise. BESIDES defending Catholic doctrine and beliefs agains attack and misinformation, please point out which Catholics have told you or any other Protestant that your beliefs are wrong, that you don't "understand" scripture, or that your doctrines are false. You might be able to find some offended Catholics resorting to "I know you are but what am I" tactics but you will not find Catholics lecturing you on your false salvation or your inability to read the Bible and "understand" it. Whatever the hell that means. And here's an example of what you said didn't occur: Well down at Big Pastor Bob's Big House of Bible Learnin' it's well known that Jesus only spoke in the English of the one true bible the KJV. All that foreigner language talk is nonsense and they could understand Jesus and the apostles way back then because of all that speakin' in tongues business. All that Greek and Latin chatter is Papist nonsense because even way back in the 300's those fish eaters were tryin' to discredit good king James. It's all in the bible. Pastor Bob will show you where after three hours of praise and worship music. The quote you provided is someone giving a parody. He wasn't taking any single person to task for not understanding the bible or having false salvation. Essentially, the above quoted post is a "you want to mischaracterize Catholics as believing in crazy nonsense that they don't actually believe in? We can do it to you too". Which is exactly what he said you could find an example of. |
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[#7]
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So, am I missing the part where he explains how God created human beings without a "magic"? Seriously. He didn't do anything except try to reconcile two sides that don't really want to be reconciled. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
The theories of evolution and the Big Bang are real and God is not “a magician with a magic wand”, Pope Francis has declared. Speaking at the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, the Pope made comments which experts said put an end to the “pseudo theories” of creationism and intelligent design that some argue were encouraged by his predecessor, Benedict XVI. Francis explained that both scientific theories were not incompatible with the existence of a creator – arguing instead that they “require it”. “When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,” Francis said. He added: “He created human beings and let them develop according to the internal laws that he gave to each one so they would reach their fulfilment. So, am I missing the part where he explains how God created human beings without a "magic"? Seriously. He didn't do anything except try to reconcile two sides that don't really want to be reconciled. You assertion that the two sides 'don't want to be reconciled' is questionable (to put it mildly). Two of the greatest contributors to our understanding of evolution (Father Gregor Mendel) and astrophysics (Father George Lemaitre) were Catholic priests, so it seems like the 'sides' get along perfectly well. |
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[#8]
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Errr...meanwhile geneticists know the human genome is breaking down and information theory blows molecules-to-man naturalist hypothesese out of the water. The evidence that evolution is false is so overwhelming to see stuff like this just makes me . I'm gonna go ahead and stick with the plain declarations of Scripture and stick with the historical and exegetical understanding of Genesis, you could say the "traditional" view, that being if any church traditional exists it has ever been biblical 6 day creation. The notion that the Creator used a destructive process that looks meaningless, was thought up by people who hate Him, and specifically meant to oppose the history of Moses and the teological argument, ie. the major biblical theme that Creation points us to God and is clearly made, the notion that when God spoke the words and made what is scene out of what is invisible and what he meant was evolution....ahhh. I just cannot believe how uncritical atheists are of their naturalist beliefs and that Mary-worshipers are so accepting of such a clearly apostate organization. My Creator tells me to "test all things" and hypothesis such as Apostolic Succession, Rome's jurisdiction over Christ's body, the universe exploding all matters and laws into existence and producing such a low entropy state that is winding down, that expanding gas would collapse into stars, I mean...this stuff does not hold up under scrutiny and is held to by faith in spite of observable evidence. Evolution is held to in spite of the systematic absense of fossil transitions, in spite of the absurdity of applying Natural Selection to uhh..a bird, it has impotent arms for countless generations and its supposed to be "fittest", the absurdity that mutations create new information, even created the genome. The spiritual blindness is destroying actual scientific knowledge to instill new naturalist myths. It's Romans 1, everyone who rejects the Creator ends up worshiping the creation, professing to be wise they become fools. http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/642/747/e75.jpg With some perhaps either denying this line of rhetoric, or ignorant of it, vxtip545 has done us all the favor of demonstrating precisely the type of Derp the Pope was speaking about. He didn't get that stuff about "the human genome is breaking down" from the Bible, but from an entrenched industry of advanced studies in Derp that is more about profitability than scientific integrity. Hence, the use of big "C" Creationism to identify it. |
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[#9]
Quoted:
With some perhaps either denying this line of rhetoric, or ignorant of it, vxtip545 has done us all the favor of demonstrating precisely the type of Derp the Pope was speaking about. He didn't get that stuff about "the human genome is breaking down" from the Bible, but from an entrenched industry of advanced studies in Derp that is more about profitability than scientific integrity. Hence, the use of big "C" Creationism to identify it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Errr...meanwhile geneticists know the human genome is breaking down and information theory blows molecules-to-man naturalist hypothesese out of the water. The evidence that evolution is false is so overwhelming to see stuff like this just makes me . I'm gonna go ahead and stick with the plain declarations of Scripture and stick with the historical and exegetical understanding of Genesis, you could say the "traditional" view, that being if any church traditional exists it has ever been biblical 6 day creation. The notion that the Creator used a destructive process that looks meaningless, was thought up by people who hate Him, and specifically meant to oppose the history of Moses and the teological argument, ie. the major biblical theme that Creation points us to God and is clearly made, the notion that when God spoke the words and made what is scene out of what is invisible and what he meant was evolution....ahhh. I just cannot believe how uncritical atheists are of their naturalist beliefs and that Mary-worshipers are so accepting of such a clearly apostate organization. My Creator tells me to "test all things" and hypothesis such as Apostolic Succession, Rome's jurisdiction over Christ's body, the universe exploding all matters and laws into existence and producing such a low entropy state that is winding down, that expanding gas would collapse into stars, I mean...this stuff does not hold up under scrutiny and is held to by faith in spite of observable evidence. Evolution is held to in spite of the systematic absense of fossil transitions, in spite of the absurdity of applying Natural Selection to uhh..a bird, it has impotent arms for countless generations and its supposed to be "fittest", the absurdity that mutations create new information, even created the genome. The spiritual blindness is destroying actual scientific knowledge to instill new naturalist myths. It's Romans 1, everyone who rejects the Creator ends up worshiping the creation, professing to be wise they become fools. http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/642/747/e75.jpg With some perhaps either denying this line of rhetoric, or ignorant of it, vxtip545 has done us all the favor of demonstrating precisely the type of Derp the Pope was speaking about. He didn't get that stuff about "the human genome is breaking down" from the Bible, but from an entrenched industry of advanced studies in Derp that is more about profitability than scientific integrity. Hence, the use of big "C" Creationism to identify it. i like you |
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[#10]
Quoted: Care to cite that little nugget in red? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: This has been the official position for a very long time. In fact Catholics came up with the idea of the big bang and evolution long before secular scientists did. Care to cite that little nugget in red? Georges Lemaitre who is basically the father of the Big Bang, was a ordained Priest. |
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[#11]
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Actually that is not an example of what he asked for. The quote you provided is someone giving a parody. He wasn't taking any single person to task for not understanding the bible or having false salvation. Essentially, the above quoted post is a "you want to mischaracterize Catholics as believing in crazy nonsense that they don't actually believe in? We can do it to you too". Which is exactly what he said you could find an example of. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Here's an interesting exercise. BESIDES defending Catholic doctrine and beliefs agains attack and misinformation, please point out which Catholics have told you or any other Protestant that your beliefs are wrong, that you don't "understand" scripture, or that your doctrines are false. You might be able to find some offended Catholics resorting to "I know you are but what am I" tactics but you will not find Catholics lecturing you on your false salvation or your inability to read the Bible and "understand" it. Whatever the hell that means. And here's an example of what you said didn't occur: Well down at Big Pastor Bob's Big House of Bible Learnin' it's well known that Jesus only spoke in the English of the one true bible the KJV. All that foreigner language talk is nonsense and they could understand Jesus and the apostles way back then because of all that speakin' in tongues business. All that Greek and Latin chatter is Papist nonsense because even way back in the 300's those fish eaters were tryin' to discredit good king James. It's all in the bible. Pastor Bob will show you where after three hours of praise and worship music. The quote you provided is someone giving a parody. He wasn't taking any single person to task for not understanding the bible or having false salvation. Essentially, the above quoted post is a "you want to mischaracterize Catholics as believing in crazy nonsense that they don't actually believe in? We can do it to you too". Which is exactly what he said you could find an example of. In addition to your statement about "mischaracterized beliefs", there was more in there as well. O-P basically said, "Catholics don't know anything about their faith, they're just trained to believe what the Vatican says and parrot and defend it without thought. Totally unlike us learned Protestants who really know the Bible." I encountered this attitude a lot in my brief time in Southern Alabama. Catholics are wrong and don't know it because they don't really know Scripture and just do whatever some guy in Rome says. And then you toss in a lot of "the church is still selling indulgences!" and such. Of course, when you probe and push, you discover something. Something O-P even admitted when people starting throwing challanges at his "Petros/petra" thing. He does the same thing he accuses Catholics of. He doesn't "know" the argument (hence why he didn't have a response for the Cephas thing), he's just parroting what some scholar he agrees with told him. Typically in my time in Alabama, instead of defending what some guys in Rome said (which was bad of me to do!), they were just defending what some guy who stood in front of them for a few hours every Sunday said (which was a-okay for them to do). We've seen that attitude here in other, older threads. Some guy will say, "Catholics are selling indulgences! I know a guy who went and bought one!" At which the Catholic Crew will respond, "That's ridiculous. We never see that, and an indulgence is stupidly easy to get for free by doing simple things yourself." At which point the response will invariably be, "Nu-uh, they totally are. My preacher told me he went and got one!" My comment also rolls up the "KJV uber alles!" attitude that I find so very amusing. I also hate modern praise and worship music, mostly because it's not very good music. Including the crap that's Catholic. The RCC should declare that the Church's views on capital punishment should not apply to anybody that willingly plays a Marty Haugen song. ETA: And, of course, our scholars and authority guys have been at it a lot longer than anybody else. A lot. And I can quote sources from the 100s to the 400s on the Peter thing. ETA2: And, yes, as somebody else said, I did mean it to be more along the good natured ribbing lines. I do think O-P is a good guy and solid in his belief in Jesus, which makes him closer to me and more worth defending on the whole than any non-Christian could ever be. |
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[#12]
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Here's an interesting exercise. BESIDES defending Catholic doctrine and beliefs agains attack and misinformation, please point out which Catholics have told you or any other Protestant that your beliefs are wrong, that you don't "understand" scripture, or that your doctrines are false. View Quote As a note to this and from what I've gathered from reading people like Scott Hahn (a learned former Presbyterian graduate of Gordon–Conwell Theological Seminary) is that we wouldn't call many Protestant beliefs wrong, but rather incomplete. Some are wrong though. I, of course, would recommend any of Scott Hahn's books to anybody, especially Protestants. |
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[#13]
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[#14]
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My comment also rolls up the "KJV uber alles!" attitude that I find so very amusing. You telling me you haven't seen people on here and out in the world who proclaim that the KJV is the only legitimate translation of the Bible that exists to the point of claiming it was directly inspired by God himself? |
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[#15]
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You telling me you haven't seen people on here and out in the world who proclaim that the KJV is the only legitimate translation of the Bible that exists to the point of claiming it was directly inspired by God himself? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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My comment also rolls up the "KJV uber alles!" attitude that I find so very amusing. You telling me you haven't seen people on here and out in the world who proclaim that the KJV is the only legitimate translation of the Bible that exists to the point of claiming it was directly inspired by God himself? I've never seen anyone saying its the only legitimate version (although it is my favorite and I think undoubtedly the most historically important English translation). Mostly I've seen people pointing out that it was written for political purposes. |
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[#16]
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Georges Lemaitre who is basically the father of the Big Bang, was a ordained Priest. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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This has been the official position for a very long time. In fact Catholics came up with the idea of the big bang and evolution long before secular scientists did. Care to cite that little nugget in red? Georges Lemaitre who is basically the father of the Big Bang, was a ordained Priest. That little bit of truth always pisses them off.... |
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[#17]
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I've never seen anyone saying its the only legitimate version (although it is my favorite and I think undoubtedly the most historically important English translation). Mostly I've seen people pointing out that it was written for political purposes. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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My comment also rolls up the "KJV uber alles!" attitude that I find so very amusing. You telling me you haven't seen people on here and out in the world who proclaim that the KJV is the only legitimate translation of the Bible that exists to the point of claiming it was directly inspired by God himself? I've never seen anyone saying its the only legitimate version (although it is my favorite and I think undoubtedly the most historically important English translation). Mostly I've seen people pointing out that it was written for political purposes. Douay–Rheims uber alles! |
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[#18]
There is no doubt that the KJv is one of the more beautifully-written translations.
That said, it's missing a few books that were inconvenient to the Protestant "Reformists"... |
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[#19]
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I've never seen anyone saying its the only legitimate version (although it is my favorite and I think undoubtedly the most historically important English translation). Mostly I've seen people pointing out that it was written for political purposes. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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My comment also rolls up the "KJV uber alles!" attitude that I find so very amusing. You telling me you haven't seen people on here and out in the world who proclaim that the KJV is the only legitimate translation of the Bible that exists to the point of claiming it was directly inspired by God himself? I've never seen anyone saying its the only legitimate version (although it is my favorite and I think undoubtedly the most historically important English translation). Mostly I've seen people pointing out that it was written for political purposes. We used to get it a lot, though most avoid saying it now because they know how shaky their logic is - but they still believe it. It's the same with how most long-time posters people are more hesitant to spout the derpiest and most readily disproved YEC rhetoric (heck, I still see some acting like we are makign it up, but some newer poster will always come in and show it isn't a strawman). It got so bad, I started long ago only citing Bible passages from the KJV, as any other text would be inevitably challenged. |
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[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My comment also rolls up the "KJV uber alles!" attitude that I find so very amusing. You telling me you haven't seen people on here and out in the world who proclaim that the KJV is the only legitimate translation of the Bible that exists to the point of claiming it was directly inspired by God himself? I've never seen anyone saying its the only legitimate version (although it is my favorite and I think undoubtedly the most historically important English translation). Mostly I've seen people pointing out that it was written for political purposes. Douay–Rheims uber alles! Hear, hear!
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[#21]
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I didn't do that. I never said "all Catholics". Why are you guys so determined to argue? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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If you're going to extend the remarks of one Catholic to all Catholics, then it would only be fair to extend the remarks of any non-Catholic to all non-Catholics. I didn't do that. I never said "all Catholics". Why are you guys so determined to argue? So, just all "you Catholic guys" then? Yeah, you didn't use the word "all". Quoted:
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Well down at Big Pastor Bob's Big House of Bible Learnin'... I was simply explaining what Doctors of Theology in Protestant seminaries believe. But as usual, you Catholic guys just can't resist insulting Protestants. You will notice that I didn't say anything ugly about the Pope, and even said that he is welcome to his opinion. But you guys just have to start the insults. I'm sure Jesus is proud of you. |
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[#22]
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My comment also rolls up the "KJV uber alles!" attitude that I find so very amusing. You telling me you haven't seen people on here and out in the world who proclaim that the KJV is the only legitimate translation of the Bible that exists to the point of claiming it was directly inspired by God himself? I've never seen anyone saying its the only legitimate version (although it is my favorite and I think undoubtedly the most historically important English translation). Mostly I've seen people pointing out that it was written for political purposes. Douay–Rheims uber alles! The Jerusalem Bible is an awesome resource once you take all the introductions and footnotes into account. It's like a Bible, a theological treatise and a history text in the same book. |
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[#23]
Good summary here: Pope Francis' Big Bang Hits on many of the points already mentioned in this thread.
Nice to see informed Catholics pushing back against this secularism = science/religion= superstition meme (see: Neil deGrasse Tyson's Cosmos reboot). It isn't like there's a lack of historical facts to rebut this sort of nonsense. |
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[#24]
Quoted: I am reminded of a passage I recently read: If God loves all of the things in this universe that He has created it would seem to make sense that we can acquire a greater love for His creation by knowing more of it than we do, and by increasing our understanding of that which we have come to know. Seeing the pictures of deep space I can't avoid the majesty and inherent goodness in God's creation, and the same is true in seeing the details of a landscape here on Earth, which is minuscule in comparison. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: I am reminded of a passage I recently read: It is God's will that is the cause of all things. Cause of the fact they are, the divine will is therefore cause of what they are. Now God has only willed that they be, and that they be what they are, because they are good in the very measure in which they are. To say that the will of God is the cause of all things is therefore to say that God loves all things, as reason points out and as Scripture teaches: "For thou lovest all things that are, and hatest none of the things thou hast made" (Wisd., XI, 24). If God loves all of the things in this universe that He has created it would seem to make sense that we can acquire a greater love for His creation by knowing more of it than we do, and by increasing our understanding of that which we have come to know. Seeing the pictures of deep space I can't avoid the majesty and inherent goodness in God's creation, and the same is true in seeing the details of a landscape here on Earth, which is minuscule in comparison. Nice quote and very nice sentiment. Thanks for posting that. |
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[#25]
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Nice quote and very nice sentiment. Thanks for posting that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I am reminded of a passage I recently read: It is God's will that is the cause of all things. Cause of the fact they are, the divine will is therefore cause of what they are. Now God has only willed that they be, and that they be what they are, because they are good in the very measure in which they are. To say that the will of God is the cause of all things is therefore to say that God loves all things, as reason points out and as Scripture teaches: "For thou lovest all things that are, and hatest none of the things thou hast made" (Wisd., XI, 24). If God loves all of the things in this universe that He has created it would seem to make sense that we can acquire a greater love for His creation by knowing more of it than we do, and by increasing our understanding of that which we have come to know. Seeing the pictures of deep space I can't avoid the majesty and inherent goodness in God's creation, and the same is true in seeing the details of a landscape here on Earth, which is minuscule in comparison. Nice quote and very nice sentiment. Thanks for posting that. It really is a nice sentiment, and it goes in the micro direction as well. http://media.hhmi.org/biointeractive/films/Evolving_Switches_Evolving_Bodies.html |
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