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For instance, I didn't know what barrel regulation was, now I do. I wouldn't have even had an inkling that it was a "thing", but now I know, and it makes sense. I don't shoot clay though, so I'm totally not surprised I don't know anything about it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I've had this same question kicking around in the back of my mind for a long time. Question answered, and some others I didn't know to ask. You clearly know to not seek answers on GD. I only ask questions here that I know the answer to. For instance, I didn't know what barrel regulation was, now I do. I wouldn't have even had an inkling that it was a "thing", but now I know, and it makes sense. I don't shoot clay though, so I'm totally not surprised I don't know anything about it. If you're in east texas come shoot with us and try it. |
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Here's my safe queen, a Beretta 686 Onyx used for skeet, sporting clays, and hunting. You guys who think a pump or an autoloader can do the same thing just don't get it. <a href="http://s729.photobucket.com/user/msc182/media/a9352593.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww298/msc182/a9352593.jpg</a> View Quote Sexy |
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Question, although a tiny bit off topic. What are the advantages or disadvantages of having an O/U with a space (where you can see light through) between the barrels lengthwise and one that has no space and the barrels are sealed/welded together on top of each other the full length of the metal? Is one more expensive and/or better than the other? |
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Question, although a tiny bit off topic. What are the advantages or disadvantages of having an O/U with a space (where you can see light through) between the barrels lengthwise and one that has no space and the barrels are sealed/welded together on top of each other the full length of the metal? Is one more expensive and/or better than the other? View Quote Weight and balance, and sometimes to adjust POI with different barrel hangers. It is not correlated to cost. I have seen $1200 Beretta 686 Essentials with it, as well as $30k Krieghoffs. |
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Field guns benefit from closed sideribs because they don't hang up on brush and get filled with stuff that is hard to clean out. Target guns seem to feature open sideribs. Possibly better ventilation and a little less prone to being blown around shooting in the wind. Some higher end guns like the kreighoffs have changeable barrel hangers so you can adjust the poi of the bottom bbl.
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Here's my safe queen, a Beretta 686 Onyx used for skeet, sporting clays, and hunting. You guys who think a pump or an autoloader can do the same thing just don't get it. <a href="http://s729.photobucket.com/user/msc182/media/a9352593.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww298/msc182/a9352593.jpg</a> View Quote Bought mine off the used rack with the hang tags still on it. |
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I saw a nice Rizzini for sale for $28,000. I really wanted to buy it, but I don't shoot skeet nor do I hunt waterfowl. I could not hide the purchase from Crabby, so I never bought the gun But it was so beautiful that I really wanted it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
I saw a nice Rizzini for sale for $28,000. I really wanted to buy it, but I don't shoot skeet nor do I hunt waterfowl. I could not hide the purchase from Crabby, so I never bought the gun But it was so beautiful that I really wanted it. I borrowed a Rizzini for a round of Sporting Clays when I started shooting that game. That was a great gun, but I wasn't ready to buy it for $5k. A K-80 sporting gun I shot a couple of years back was the best I've handled. My main 12 gauge is a 525 Sporting, and I reckon I'll continue shooting it, although I get an urge for a gun with 32 inch barrels, I don't miss targets due to barrel length. Which brings up a point about great guns that is lost on most that don't shoot shotgun sports, that many of the features and tweaks are added to make the task of shooting great scores with consistency easier, getting the gun out of the way and putting the burden of performance onto the shooter. The guy that shoots a round of skeet or a half box of clay pigeons behind the barn a couple of times a year won't get it until he's shooting at least 100 targets in a single outing every week with 200 to 300 rounds on many weekends. Anyway, target shotgun threads here are exactly like watching entire bands of retards banging on drums, mostly drums made out of cardboard boxes and empty coffee cans. Quoted:
Here's my safe queen, a Beretta 686 Onyx used for skeet, sporting clays, and hunting. You guys who think a pump or an autoloader can do the same thing just don't get it. <a href="http://s729.photobucket.com/user/msc182/media/a9352593.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww298/msc182/a9352593.jpg</a> Those Black Onyx guns were the sleeper value when they were in production. Try to find one for sale now at anywhere near their price when they were new. |
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I have a couple O/U's and when I look at my Browning Citori it is a work of art. The function, fit and finish are all top notch.
I average about the same shooting trap with the Citori as I do with my Benelli Vinci. The Browning just looks prettier doing it. |
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I like to tell this story in these threads... makes the shotgun guys wince.
A local high end gun collector was telling me a about his friend getting stopped in OH coming back from an auction. The buddy had a pair of Holland & Hollands worth about $250k in the car. There was an issue with a failure to appear warrant for a traffic violation. The man was briefly detained and his guns were taken as well. After his lawyer sorted out the whole clerical error he got the guns back and they had an evidence # engraved in the top of each one. This led to a lengthy lawsuit... which the collector won. |
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I have a few shotguns from a 870, Remington 1100, Beretta 391, and a Browning Citori 625 Sporting. There really is not much of a difference in scores between the autos and the O/U. All you need is a fitting and some practice. I end up getting the O/U because I was tired of picking up the hulls for reloading.
Most of it is in people's heads. Also modern machining has reduced the time needed to make a quality O/U. Quality as being able to reliably shoot, and shoot straight. Fancy wood and engraving does nothing for one's score. There's the internet bits 'o truth for you guys. |
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These $1000 to $2000 guns are considered entry level by clay shooters. Expensive starts at about $20k and goes up from there.
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I like to tell this story in these threads... makes the shotgun guys wince. A local high end gun collector was telling me a about his friend getting stopped in OH coming back from an auction. The buddy had a pair of Holland & Hollands worth about $250k in the car. There was an issue with a failure to appear warrant for a traffic violation. The man was briefly detained and his guns were taken as well. After his lawyer sorted out the whole clerical error he got the guns back and they had an evidence # engraved in the top of each one. This led to a lengthy lawsuit... which the collector won. View Quote Yup. I'm wincing. What kind of idiot would take an electropencil to an H&H? |
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And you don't have to chase hulls all over the range. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I average about the same shooting trap with the Citori as I do with my Benelli Vinci. The Browning just looks prettier doing it. And you don't have to chase hulls all over the range. Our Club has people to pick those up. |
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My game guns. Top is my German 6 1/4lb BLE 12ga Bottom is my English sidelock hammergun 10ga. (Waterfowl) Shown wearing its Austrian(Lindner made) set of barrels. http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Marksman30/Guns/Klimpke/DSCN3045.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Marksman30/Guns/Klimpke/DSCN3047.jpg My clays guns. 1931 Browning Superposed. 32" barrels with step rib. Double/Single Triggers http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Marksman30/Guns/P1060910.jpg Classic pigeon gun with chokes of .050" in both barrels. Miller Single Trigger. http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Marksman30/AE%20Fox/P1030209-1.jpg And for those of you who say it can't be done. We broke a few clays that day on a break from grouse hunting. http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Marksman30/UP%202007%20Cast%20and%20Blast/P1030144-1.jpg View Quote OMG RUSTEDACE MEME. EVERYTHING SHOTGUN DO, M4 DO BETTERS! That trajectory looks.......um.....optimistic. I'll assume you calculated runout and population density though.... |
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These $1000 to $2000 guns are considered entry level by clay shooters. Expensive starts at about $20k and goes up from there. View Quote Its kind of embarrassing to see people bitch about shotgun prices on here. We have tons of guys that pay $3000+ for Wilson 1911's, $4000 for Larue rifles, and hardly shoot time. We also have guys with $20k wrapped up in a dozen random AR's that don't get shot and are just put together as their owners find good deals on "parts". Just random mish-mash frankenguns and whole safes of them. They are also the same people that pipe up that they would never be able to afford a to play in NFA land. |
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I said the same thing until I picked up a high end Beretta OU, damn thing felt like it aimed itself. It was balanced to the max and just felt natural unlike anything I had ever fired shotgun wise. Not sure what model it was but it was nice and looked expensive
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My game guns. Top is my German 6 1/4lb BLE 12ga Bottom is my English sidelock hammergun 10ga. (Waterfowl) Shown wearing its Austrian(Lindner made) set of barrels. http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Marksman30/Guns/Klimpke/DSCN3045.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Marksman30/Guns/Klimpke/DSCN3047.jpg My clays guns. 1931 Browning Superposed. 32" barrels with step rib. Double/Single Triggers http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Marksman30/Guns/P1060910.jpg Classic pigeon gun with chokes of .050" in both barrels. Miller Single Trigger. http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Marksman30/AE%20Fox/P1030209-1.jpg And for those of you who say it can't be done. We broke a few clays that day on a break from grouse hunting. http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Marksman30/UP%202007%20Cast%20and%20Blast/P1030144-1.jpg View Quote Man, that German gun looks nice. |
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My S&W side-by-side twenty is the only gun I own that ducks and grouse seem to WANT to get shot by.
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Yup. I'm wincing. What kind of idiot would take an electropencil to an H&H? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I like to tell this story in these threads... makes the shotgun guys wince. A local high end gun collector was telling me a about his friend getting stopped in OH coming back from an auction. The buddy had a pair of Holland & Hollands worth about $250k in the car. There was an issue with a failure to appear warrant for a traffic violation. The man was briefly detained and his guns were taken as well. After his lawyer sorted out the whole clerical error he got the guns back and they had an evidence # engraved in the top of each one. This led to a lengthy lawsuit... which the collector won. Yup. I'm wincing. What kind of idiot would take an electropencil to an H&H? Procedures slavishly followed by people tasked with identifying evidence are the cause. Common sense is absent, and coupled with a lack of the most basic knowledge and curiosity leads to vibra pencil marking of valuable property that does not belong to the government. "In the top" might be recoverable by hiding the marks under engraving or stippling. |
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So I'm correct about the fancy carvings on the stock? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Accuracy? Noignorant Durability? Noignorant Reliability? Noignorant Fancy carvings on the stock? Yes So I'm correct about the fancy carvings on the stock? Hehe |
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Procedures slavishly followed by people tasked with identifying evidence are the cause. Common sense is absent, and coupled with a lack of the most basic knowledge and curiosity leads to vibra pencil marking of valuable property that does not belong to the government. "In the top" might be recoverable by hiding the marks under engraving or stippling. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I like to tell this story in these threads... makes the shotgun guys wince. A local high end gun collector was telling me a about his friend getting stopped in OH coming back from an auction. The buddy had a pair of Holland & Hollands worth about $250k in the car. There was an issue with a failure to appear warrant for a traffic violation. The man was briefly detained and his guns were taken as well. After his lawyer sorted out the whole clerical error he got the guns back and they had an evidence # engraved in the top of each one. This led to a lengthy lawsuit... which the collector won. Yup. I'm wincing. What kind of idiot would take an electropencil to an H&H? Procedures slavishly followed by people tasked with identifying evidence are the cause. Common sense is absent, and coupled with a lack of the most basic knowledge and curiosity leads to vibra pencil marking of valuable property that does not belong to the government. "In the top" might be recoverable by hiding the marks under engraving or stippling. I bet the city enjoyed getting a bill for H&Hs finest engraving. |
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I have a few shotguns from a 870, Remington 1100, Beretta 391, and a Browning Citori 625 Sporting. There really is not much of a difference in scores between the autos and the O/U. All you need is a fitting and some practice. I end up getting the O/U because I was tired of picking up the hulls for reloading. Most of it is in people's heads. Also modern machining has reduced the time needed to make a quality O/U. Quality as being able to reliably shoot, and shoot straight. Fancy wood and engraving does nothing for one's score. There's the internet bits 'o truth for you guys. View Quote Yet the cheap guns still can't stop falling apart no matter how much CNC and modern metals are involved in them..... I REALLY want the new 2014+ ruger red labels to last like a 686 or Citori |
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View Quote Holy FUcK!!!!! Digweed is a machine. 130yds. Crazy. I've broken targets at 50-60 yards in FITASC but I couldn't do it routinely, especially now. amazing. |
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OMG RUSTEDACE MEME. EVERYTHING SHOTGUN DO, M4 DO BETTERS! That trajectory looks.......um.....optimistic. I'll assume you calculated runout and population density though.... View Quote We were shooting tracers. (Just stopped raining after almost two days.) This did help figure out lead. No holdover needed..... Runout and population density? In that direction, his nearest neighbor is over eight miles away....... |
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I always have thought of sporting clays O/Us as the height of firearms snobbery, even more than the "Gotta be a Larue or Noveske or you ain't shit" bunch or posers in the AR world. Owning brand X or Y gun does not mean you're automatically a better shooter. It just means you have more money to spend on a gun. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Accuracy? No Durability? No Reliability? No Fancy carvings on the stock? Yes I always have thought of sporting clays O/Us as the height of firearms snobbery, even more than the "Gotta be a Larue or Noveske or you ain't shit" bunch or posers in the AR world. Owning brand X or Y gun does not mean you're automatically a better shooter. It just means you have more money to spend on a gun. You sound jealous. |
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"In the top" might be recoverable by hiding the marks under engraving or stippling. View Quote I want to see a Holland and Holland with stippling! They may have found someone in the USA to polish out the vibro pencil and reblacked the barrels, but I guarantee you, if they went back to H&H, they would not cover such a travesty with engraving. They would replace the barrel sets. Lots of $$$. |
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I haven't been on here much today, but you win the "stupid statement of the day" award! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Yesterdays technology at tomorrows prices. A nice semi-auto shotgun is better period. I haven't been on here much today, but you win the "stupid statement of the day" award! Again........yep |
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I have a few shotguns from a 870, Remington 1100, Beretta 391, and a Browning Citori 625 Sporting. There really is not much of a difference in scores between the autos and the O/U. All you need is a fitting and some practice. I end up getting the O/U because I was tired of picking up the hulls for reloading. Most of it is in people's heads. Also modern machining has reduced the time needed to make a quality O/U. Quality as being able to reliably shoot, and shoot straight. Fancy wood and engraving does nothing for one's score. There's the internet bits 'o truth for you guys. View Quote 15 bucks would have bought a shell catcher! |
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Potato photo of my O/U's http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/robertlee3rd/83D571B0-320D-4A19-A720-634A80C4E256.jpg Citori Special Field 12ga Citori XS Sporting 12ga Citori SuperLight 16ga Ruger Red Label 20ga Ruger Red Label 28ga CZ RedHead 410 The Citori XS Sporting is certainly the nicest, but the 28ga Red Label is my favorite. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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This thread needs more pics Potato photo of my O/U's http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a316/robertlee3rd/83D571B0-320D-4A19-A720-634A80C4E256.jpg Citori Special Field 12ga Citori XS Sporting 12ga Citori SuperLight 16ga Ruger Red Label 20ga Ruger Red Label 28ga CZ RedHead 410 The Citori XS Sporting is certainly the nicest, but the 28ga Red Label is my favorite. |
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Accuracy? No Durability? No Reliability? No Fancy carvings on the stock? Yes There is an upside. Ignorance is a curable disease. It does, however, take effort. Popping a pill won't do it. |
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Yet the cheap guns still can't stop falling apart no matter how much CNC and modern metals are involved in them..... I REALLY want the new 2014+ ruger red labels to last like a 686 or Citori View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I have a few shotguns from a 870, Remington 1100, Beretta 391, and a Browning Citori 625 Sporting. There really is not much of a difference in scores between the autos and the O/U. All you need is a fitting and some practice. I end up getting the O/U because I was tired of picking up the hulls for reloading. Most of it is in people's heads. Also modern machining has reduced the time needed to make a quality O/U. Quality as being able to reliably shoot, and shoot straight. Fancy wood and engraving does nothing for one's score. There's the internet bits 'o truth for you guys. Yet the cheap guns still can't stop falling apart no matter how much CNC and modern metals are involved in them..... I REALLY want the new 2014+ ruger red labels to last like a 686 or Citori And that's the part that gets me... I could see how regulating anything with two barrels would require some serious craftsmanship using old world techniques, but with all the computerized capabilities in modern manufacturing, I can't see why a long term serviceable OU would need to cost thousands of dollars. Sure, the upfront investment would be heavy, but when word of what you're producing gets out, the demand will be there. |
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Quoted: If you're in east texas come shoot with us and try it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've had this same question kicking around in the back of my mind for a long time. Question answered, and some others I didn't know to ask. You clearly know to not seek answers on GD. I only ask questions here that I know the answer to. For instance, I didn't know what barrel regulation was, now I do. I wouldn't have even had an inkling that it was a "thing", but now I know, and it makes sense. I don't shoot clay though, so I'm totally not surprised I don't know anything about it. If you're in east texas come shoot with us and try it. |
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With few exceptions. $1500-$2500 gets you a gun correctly indexed, a solid receiver expect it to go 100k to 150k rounds with no problems , good over all balance, and pleasing but minimalist aesthetics on the lower end guns. $2500-$4500 gets you a gun correctly indexed, a solid receiver, depending on the design some receivers can see 500k for multiple barrel sets with no issues, excellent to wand like balance, and pleasing aesthetics. Some of the higher end guns in that bracket the wood work and and receiver engraving are works of art. $4500-$16000 gets you all of the above and starts to branch out into the specialized custom competition guns and guns that are works of art. Some of the field guns in these categories have engraving that takes years to complete. The higher end mechanisms in this price are like fine watches. $16000-$100,000+ The locking mechanisms and craftsmanship goes beyond perfection. Smithing techniques that take lifetimes to perfect and years to produce a product are used. Specific engravers are commissioned to do the engraving. I have heard of some guns taking 10 years plus to engrave. View Quote Listen to this guy. |
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