Good advice.
Citoris fit me very nicely, love mine. However, it's too heavy for my wife and she didn't like the 12ga recoil.
Bought her a Browning 725 which has a lower receiver that reduces recoil. The shotgun is also a bit lighter than my Citori. She loves her 725, doesn't mind the recoil at all, and shoots it very well. I kinda like it too!

 

The new ones are supposed to be significantly improved and more reliable.   Ruger hired away one of Browning's too engineers to re-engineer the RRL.   It has been simplified and benefits from better metals and modern production methods.  By all accounts, it is significantly better in all aspects than the first version.


However, I'm not willing to bet $1300 on it, when I can get into a lightly used B-gun for roughly the same price.

This is what I was thinking originally.

Why not an Xplor if money is a thing?



 

a Purdey or Perazzi don't do nothin' that a SPAS-12 cain't

The sweet spot for getting significant results for your money on a new gun is probably the $2-4,000 range. This brings you the majority of entry sporting guns from beretta and browning. In the same way a used browning citori can be had for 12-1600 for base models. It does all this while looking great,and balancing superbly.I personally recommend anyone to try a Cynergy for a good o/u when looking at value to dollar. Past that realm you get into pretty guns, professional grades like kolar, blaser, and kreigoff, then into just magnificent pieces that cost more than I can afford, but would love to collect.

What you pay for in an o/u is fit, finish, balance, and most importantly ---- Reliability. Reliability in a quality o/u is beyond what people can imagine in the AR world for the most part. I've seen more issues in decent bolt guns. The internals of quality o/u's is a contradiction is watch-like complexity and simple elegance. I have cleaned my cynergy classic about 3-4 times since I bought it new 4 years ago. I have about 20 thousand rounds through this gun..... 20,000... and not ONE failure with it. I have had a 3 or 4 Rio's fail to fire with solid primer strikes, but because there are two barrels and two firing pins with mechanical triggers, I simple pulled the trigger again and hit the clay. This would remain true for a bird, or deer, or charging anything. There are reasons why you see a fine double rifle as still the premier stopping gun in Africa.

A friend of mine bought a Cynergy when they first came out and has been shooting it consistently since then til about a year ago when he began to shoot sub gauges more. He has according to his count, just shy of a million rounds through it. And knowing the way he shoots now, and used to, I don't doubt him. But even if he's wrong by 25%, that's 750,000 rounds. In that time, he had two small parts that were out of spec when he detail cleaned it. The parts were on backorder longer than he wanted to wait without shooting it, so.... he bent them straight with pliers and has the new parts sitting on his shelf. This was two years ago and he just shot that gun at national's last March.

tl;dr - they are worth the money because they perform better than you.

Too light for clays

No cool extended chokes


I didn't say money was a thing.  I just don't want to tie up $3300 in a Citori Sporting model if I'm just trying this sport out and learning about it.

Lol I would pay money to see some clay shooting pro use one to shoot with.

I can't think of a single thing a SPAS-12 does well

Same thing applies to a Saiga -12

Benilli and Remington make much more practical semi auto room brooms if that's your thing.

At what? Not at Clays, not at Trap, not at Skeet. Knocking on O/U is like knocking on an Olympic small bore and insisting your stock 10/22 is just as capable. Sure, if you are going to own one shotgun for all around work, then a pump/semi is a great choice. But no one takes you seriously at the Trap stand.

Hopefully, you have been enlightened...

 

Thanks, I sell a ton of these for a living the best answer should always be what fits your body the best first and your budget second. Unless you are specifically asking for investment guns.

That's also an apples and oranges comparison. You're shooting a 450 grain projectile with the shotgun, compared to a 55 to 69 grain projectile for the AR.

I sold some nice O/Us and some cheap ones for many years. The cheapies had actions that quickly turned loose. The ribs came loose. The fit of the choke tubes to the barrel was poor. The lockwork tended to fail. They were heavy, off balance, and had poor ergonomics.

The ergonomics, I guess, were due to lower quality wood used to make the gun cheap.

Yes thank you for the responses.

Just get an Outlander and Krylon the receiver blue.



 

I've shot just about every modern semi and o/u on the market and the. Xplor may not have factory extended chokes but briley does make them and briley chokes are awesome. It's not really too light the a400 actions are about the lightest recoiling gun on the market.

Good advice i have to look closer at how both fit.

I met a guy who did some hand loading and also traveled to Columbia each year to hunt. He brought in a cheap Perazzi, cheap being about $ 20,000.00. It was made for him, he explained how they come to you, measure you and build it from there. He showed me up close what that means, while he held it empty, of course I looked down the barrels and they were perfectly lined up to his eye.

 

Winchester Model 12 trap guns were very popular, I still own one after selling all my other trap guns including a K80

 

My father in-law (who died 2 days before the wedding) had about 5-10 German o/u's from pre war Germany.  Absolutely beautiful.  He showed them to me and told me that a couple would be passed to me. Of course nothing was written.

I hate to think what my wife's step mom sold them for.

I have a shitty Winchester Diamond Grade, anyone want to trade me a Mossberg 590 for it?

Germans were known for their guild guns.  They also had some really cool combination rifle shotgun combos.  The German's are my favorite shotgun makers when it comes to unique guild guns.  Very few are exactly alike.

French guild guns are a close second favorite.

You can buy a really fine guild gun for a quarter to half the price from a lesser known maker or apprentice and it will be every bit as nice of a gun as some of the $30K+ boutique guns.

Don't bother they are heavy, clunky guns.

I swapped my Benelli M4 with a 4" Briley barrel extension one day shooting trap with a guy that had some two barrel engraved walnut stock shotgun.

He outshot me two games with my gun scoring 24 and 23.

 

They are also not well made. The action turned loose on one of the ones we had on the rack before it ever had a cartridge in the chamber, other than the proof rounds.

A good, well regulated OU is a whole new game.  Just have to shoot one to get it.  My dad had a pair of Winchester 101's that we would shoot skeet and hunt with.  A .28 and a 410.  It was like using the 1100's in 12 and 20.  Sure, the pattern opened up a bit out there but we still killed a lot of birds and a lot of clays.  And they were so much more fun to shoot and carry.  And yes, he would hunt birds with the 410.  They were just as dead.  He was a good shot.

If they do indeed have a Browning engineer there, it is very possible theyve been fixed.

EDIT:  Fix picture links.

My German Guild BLE

I've got two of the Diamond Grades.  One in 20 and one in .410.  I wish I'd acquired one of the 28's, or better yet, the 4 barrel set.

Ran my first 100 with the 20.  You couldn't get me to sell that piece for the price of a Perazzi!

I'd like to see that. It was an appealing design, just not well executed. Times have changed at Ruger. If they made it properly, I'd think about buying one.

I wanted the 28 gauge something fierce. Then my friend bought one. We went to the range and I shot it. It was so light that I swung over almost every bird. At the time, I had an SKB 585 and an 1187 SC. I bought a 28 gauge 1100 instead.

Because Quail deserve nothing less, especially when hunting over good dogs.

I'll just assume you can't afford and/or have never owned a nice over under.

I saw a nice Rizzini for sale for $28,000.   I really wanted to buy it, but I don't shoot skeet nor do I hunt waterfowl.  I could not hide the purchase from Crabby, so I never bought the gun  But it was so beautiful that I really wanted it.

Here's my safe queen, a Beretta 686 Onyx used for skeet, sporting clays, and hunting. You guys who think a pump or an autoloader can do the same thing just don't get it.

For trap it may work, but with sporting clays you may have one long shot ans the other part of the pair close. With my O/U I can put the right tube in for the right target. Can't do that with a single barrel.



 

With my 590A1 I have to shoot them both close anyway.  



Never get made fun of with that gun, but people sure do like to talk to me about it.  It just isn't the right tool for the job though.  At my best, I am shooting high 60's on a tricky course.  Really need a decent O/U sometime soon.



 

I'm not really up on Baikals.  I know a guy who uses one as a back up to his Browning and he swears by it.  He probably has close to 20K rounds through it.  I have never owned one and have never been around anyone else who has shot lots.  It had a really square receiver and while clunky the thing is built like a tank.

I have owned CZ and Stoeger shotguns and quickly learned that anything manufactured in Turkey O/U or SXS shotgun wise in the last 20 years is crap.  The S&W side by sides that were made in Turkey have had trouble as well.

FUCKING GD

You and your RustedAce wannabe Colaclub.  Running around with $3000 AR's with $2000 of useless shit piled on top of them, and get used for NOTHING except photo-ops, chuckling through every shotgun thread beating the "RUSTED ACE SEZ SHOTGUNS NOT GOOD FOR ANYTHING" Meme.  And now you have the same overweight clowns running around telling people that shotguns are not even good at shotgun sports.  Now you want to shit on a $2000 gun that actually gets used on a regular basis?

HURR DURR SHOTGUN LOL LOOK SUPERMAN CARTOON CAN'T USE SHOTGUN FOR FLYING CLAY DISK, USE M4 CarBINE INSTAED LAWL.  LOOK RUSTED ACE I AM MAIKIGN OF SHAWTGUNS ARE BAD GUNS JOKES! ACKNOWLEDGE ME WITH UR COOLNESS.

Why can't you let us have nice things?

The other half of them worship the Saiga 12, which is the most awkward handling, shittiest loading, and just overall shitty proposition ever created.

They are the same people that think the PS90 or the FN FiveSeveN is cool, but operate on a KelTec KSG budget.   Don't even get me started on thats squeaky piece of rat shit.

Does Geissel make a keymod forend fore a Browning Cynergy?

It's actually lighter than A2 hand guards brah.

I've had this same question kicking around in the back of my mind for a long time.



Question answered, and some others I didn't know to ask.

You clearly know to not seek answers on GD.

I only ask questions here that I know the answer to.

This thread is really making me want to try an O/U......

For instance, I didn't know what barrel regulation was, now I do.  I wouldn't have even had an inkling that it was a "thing", but now I know, and it makes sense.



I don't shoot clay though, so I'm totally not surprised I don't know anything about it.







 

Try it

It's fun

Not all of us think the same of JMB last design. This thread has me looking at Browning Superposed Shotguns again. Glad you change that avatar, Matt.