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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:05:37 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't know, but it was probably Bush's fault.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:06:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
What was the first thing his by coalition forces during the first gulf war, and by what weapons platform? I has always thought F-117's or B2's dropped the first ordnance, but someone today told me AH-64's actually fired the opening shots. This is a bit hard to believe? I know Apaches killed radar installations at the beginning but I can't remember if that was the first thing. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:06:57 PM EDT
[#3]
The thing I saw on TV said Apaches cleared out some SAM sites for the F117s to have a safe path.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:08:44 PM EDT
[#4]
Weren't there some Tomahawk strikes against command-and-control targets just prior to the Apaches going in? Or am I thinking of 2003?
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:09:08 PM EDT
[#5]
I had always thought it was F117's striking radar sites that kicked off the air campaign, but wikipedia disagrees.
A day after the deadline set in United Nations Security Council Resolution 678, the coalition launched a massive air campaign, which began the general offensive codenamed Operation Desert Storm with more than 1,000 sorties launching per day. It began on 17 January 1991, at 2:10 am, Baghdad time, when Task Force Normandy (eight US AH-64 Apache helicopters led by two MH-53 Pave Low helicopters) of the US Army destroyed Iraqi radar sites near the Iraqi-Saudi Arabian border which could have warned Iraq of an upcoming attack. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:09:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The thing I saw on TV said Apaches cleared out some SAM sites for the F117s to have a safe path. This is what I've always heard, although I'd bet there was some unofficial shots fired before the war officially began. I actually knew one of the crewmembers in the 64 that fired the 1st missile. Dude did not fuck around. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:10:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The thing I saw on TV said Apaches cleared out some SAM sites for the F117s to have a safe path. Wouldn't the Iraqi air defenses have posed a MUCH greater threat to the Apaches than the F-117's? Furthermore, being that there's no way the Apache's could have taken to ALL the air defenses that night, why bother...why risk them? |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:12:29 PM EDT
[#8]
Might it have been one those instances where the 117's were in Iraqi airspace first, but the Apaches were the first to start loosing ordnance?
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:13:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Weren't there some Tomahawk strikes against command-and-control targets just prior to the Apaches going in? Or am I thinking of 2003? I think that you are right. Tomahawks, f117, harm missiles , and those metallic bombs that kill power grids according to some reports that I had read. I think that they had to kill the radar for the stealth fighters. The old radar can see the stealth stuff. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:17:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wouldn't the Iraqi air defenses have posed a MUCH greater threat to the Apaches than the F-117's? Furthermore, being that there's no way the Apache's could have taken to ALL the air defenses that night, why bother...why risk them? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The thing I saw on TV said Apaches cleared out some SAM sites for the F117s to have a safe path. Wouldn't the Iraqi air defenses have posed a MUCH greater threat to the Apaches than the F-117's? Furthermore, being that there's no way the Apache's could have taken to ALL the air defenses that night, why bother...why risk them? a gap for the F-117s to kill more stuff, which allowed F-111s to kill more stuff and so on. I guess the Apaches were the Suppress in the suppress- obscure, secure reduce chain.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:18:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wouldn't the Iraqi air defenses have posed a MUCH greater threat to the Apaches than the F-117's? Furthermore, being that there's no way the Apache's could have taken to ALL the air defenses that night, why bother...why risk them? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The thing I saw on TV said Apaches cleared out some SAM sites for the F117s to have a safe path. Wouldn't the Iraqi air defenses have posed a MUCH greater threat to the Apaches than the F-117's? Furthermore, being that there's no way the Apache's could have taken to ALL the air defenses that night, why bother...why risk them? Air Defenses don't work like that. If you stay low and behind barriers (like sand dunes or mountains, etc) then they can't detect you, or engage you until you're right at them. Stealth also doesn't work like that. It only reduces their ability to detect the aircraft, it doesn't make it invisible. Long range air defenses are better at killing things at long range. Helicopters can come in to short range. Bam. Dead installation. The Apaches took out a specific weakness, which opened up a safe corridor. Everything poured in over that one point and opened it further. They also had a pretty good intelligence picture of what they were up against. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:19:44 PM EDT
[#12]
My Chief and LPO were on the USS San Jacinto and they fired the first Tomahawks of the war!!!! I forget what the targets were but next time I talk to them I will find out.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:20:55 PM EDT
[#13]
It was absolutely Apaches that fired the first shots. They were from the 101st ABN Div. and as previously mentioned they took out an early warning radar site in southern Iraq.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/ah-64a-ops.htm On 17 January 1991, four MH-53J Pave Low III helicopters from the 20th Special Operations Squadron led two flights of Apaches to make the first strike of the war. Pilots of the two flights, eight AH-64A Apache attack helicopters of 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) fired the first shots of Operation Desert Storm. Codenamed "Normandy", in remembrance of the 101st "Screaming Eagles" airborne operation during World War II, the dangerous mission consisted of simultaneous attacks designed to knock-out two key early-warning radar installations in western Iraq at precisely 0238 hours, 17 January 1991. Both radar sites, each hit by a team of four Apaches, were destroyed within a time span of 4.5 minutes. Each pilot's primary target became the secondary target for adjacent Apache team members. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:21:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Weren't there some Tomahawk strikes against command-and-control targets just prior to the Apaches going in? Or am I thinking of 2003? Tomahawks are easier to shoot down than most aircraft. They come in after the air defenses are reduced. It should be noted that the Apaches targeted radar sites primarily, not actual weapons. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:22:55 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is what I've always heard, although I'd bet there was some unofficial shots fired before the war officially began. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The thing I saw on TV said Apaches cleared out some SAM sites for the F117s to have a safe path. This is what I've always heard, although I'd bet there was some unofficial shots fired before the war officially began. There was on both sides. Recon by fire and harassing fires. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:23:25 PM EDT
[#16]
It was Col. Mustard with the lead pipe in the library.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:23:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Has a tomahawk ever been shot down?
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:26:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Some Warthogs.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:27:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tomahawks are easier to shoot down than most aircraft. They come in after the air defenses are reduced. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Weren't there some Tomahawk strikes against command-and-control targets just prior to the Apaches going in? Or am I thinking of 2003? Tomahawks are easier to shoot down than most aircraft. They come in after the air defenses are reduced. I did not know that. Interesting. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:28:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has a tomahawk ever been shot down? Yes with air defense and small arms(SA was pure luck from what I remember reading) |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:29:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has a tomahawk ever been shot down? Dunno. About 20% of them that were successfully launched and turned to their cruise mode failed to hit their targets. They didn't really have communications with them after that point, so their fate is iffy. I know at least two "got lost" because they were terrain matching flat desert and all flat desert looks similar and they hit other places. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:30:26 PM EDT
[#22]
There were reports that up to six were shot down in Desert Storm. The Serbs also shot some down during the NATO operation along with a predator drone.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:30:27 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes with air defense and small arms(SA was pure luck from what I remember reading) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Has a tomahawk ever been shot down? Yes with air defense and small arms(SA was pure luck from what I remember reading) I would believe it. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:31:27 PM EDT
[#24]
I don't think it was the first strike but a guy I worked with was in the first Gulf war. He said there were a bunch of Iraq soldiers in a buried school bus. He said they asked them to give up, and when they refused an Apache blew it up. He said it was pretty messy.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:33:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know Apaches killed radar installations at the beginning but I can't remember if that was the first thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What was the first thing his by coalition forces during the first gulf war, and by what weapons platform? I has always thought F-117's or B2's dropped the first ordnance, but someone today told me AH-64's actually fired the opening shots. This is a bit hard to believe? I know Apaches killed radar installations at the beginning but I can't remember if that was the first thing. I think this is what I have always heard. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:34:29 PM EDT
[#26]
I PCS'd to FT Hood in 1995 and was assigned to 1/7 cav. During inprocessing at I met Col. Cody the 4th Brigade Commander. Don't know if its true but his driver told me when taking me to the squadron that Col. Cody fired the first hellfires at the radar site.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:35:10 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some Warthogs. And some F-15s, but those were about an hour into the battle, after the Stealth guys dropped C&C for the majority of the corridor. That was also when a Growler got ½ credit for downing an enemy MiG by out-maneuvering it, causing it to hit the desert floor. Credit was also given to an F-15 that was coming to aid the Growler for not giving the MiG a chance to get to a higher altitude. I think they later revised it so the Eagle pilot got full credit, though he didn't fire a shot. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:35:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Not sure if they were used first but during the initial air assault the F4-G Wild Weasels were pretty much at the front of the line to get the SAM radars to light them up and then take them out with either their own ordnance or that of another aircraft.
Here is a very good article on them: http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/gulf-war-20th-desert-storm-was-the-first-and-last-war-for-the-f-4g-advanced-wild-weasel/ |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:36:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Anybody know which unit the Apaches that made the first strikes were from? My old man was a pilot in the 101st during the first Gulf War, in a Cav unit. I am pretty certain that it wasn't his unit, they were still flying Cobra's and didn't have Apaches.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 6:10:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Yep, eight Army AH-64 Apaches led by a USAF MH-53J PAVE LOW kicked off the war with TASK FORCE NORMANDY at precisely 2:38 AM Bagdad time on Jan 17th, 1991. 1st Battalion of the 101st got the honor.
By taking out the Iraqi air defense radar sites the Coalition bombers could go in unmolested and do their handiwork. 
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Posted: 10/25/2014 6:13:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know, but it was probably Bush's fault. I rost. 
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Posted: 10/25/2014 7:30:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
What was the first thing his by coalition forces during the first gulf war, and by what weapons platform? I has always thought F-117's or B2's dropped the first ordnance, but someone today told me AH-64's actually fired the opening shots. This is a bit hard to believe? First weapons fired were tomahawk cruise missiles. First targets destroyed were radar installations along the border, hit with hellfire missiles fired from Apaches, who in turn were guided to their firing positions by MH-53 Pave Lows. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 7:47:38 PM EDT
[#33]
radar tower
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Posted: 10/25/2014 9:17:47 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
What was the first thing his by coalition forces during the first gulf war, and by what weapons platform? I has always thought F-117's or B2's dropped the first ordnance, but someone today told me AH-64's actually fired the opening shots. This is a bit hard to believe? It was AH-64s, lead in by a Pave Low to attack an Iraqi air defense radar site that would have provided an early alert of the Allied aircraft formations approaching Iraq, had the site not been destroyed by the Apaches.. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 10:43:37 PM EDT
[#35]
Yeah, Apaches from the 101st flew in at very low level and took out a radar site in southern Iraq, which opened up a gap in their radar coverage. But that wasn't done so much to help out the F-117s as it was the large strike force of conventional fighter bombers (F-15E and F-16C) strikers coming in on the heels of the Nighthawks and Apaches. The F-117s were probably already in the air over Iraq when the Apaches hit that radar site. And some of the Tomahawk missiles may have already been in the air also. It was pretty much a wham, bam, thank you ma'am type of thing. We really gave it to them with both barrels right from the start and never let up.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 10:47:25 PM EDT
[#36]
The truth was the target, the MSM was the weapon.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 10:48:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First weapons fired were tomahawk cruise missiles. First targets destroyed were radar installations along the border, hit with hellfire missiles fired from Apaches, who in turn were guided to their firing positions by MH-53 Pave Lows. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What was the first thing his by coalition forces during the first gulf war, and by what weapons platform? I has always thought F-117's or B2's dropped the first ordnance, but someone today told me AH-64's actually fired the opening shots. This is a bit hard to believe? First weapons fired were tomahawk cruise missiles. First targets destroyed were radar installations along the border, hit with hellfire missiles fired from Apaches, who in turn were guided to their firing positions by MH-53 Pave Lows. I can't say for sure if they were first but I do recall seeing tomahawks on day one of the Gulf War. That and lots and lots of bombs. 
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Posted: 10/25/2014 10:50:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The thing I saw on TV said Apaches cleared out some SAM sites for the F117s to have a safe path. Apache"s took early warning |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 10:54:12 PM EDT
[#39]
Qurah Island, if I recall correctly
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Posted: 10/25/2014 10:55:00 PM EDT
[#40]
I remember watching the aircraft fly over our tactical AA in Saudi Arabia.
I would not have wanted to be on the receiving end of that.
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Posted: 10/26/2014 1:59:01 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was absolutely Apaches that fired the first shots. They were from the 101st ABN Div. and as previously mentioned they took out an early warning radar site in southern Iraq. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/ah-64a-ops.htm Quote HistoryQuoted: It was absolutely Apaches that fired the first shots. They were from the 101st ABN Div. and as previously mentioned they took out an early warning radar site in southern Iraq. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/ah-64a-ops.htm On 17 January 1991, four MH-53J Pave Low III helicopters from the 20th Special Operations Squadron led two flights of Apaches to make the first strike of the war. Pilots of the two flights, eight AH-64A Apache attack helicopters of 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) fired the first shots of Operation Desert Storm. Codenamed "Normandy", in remembrance of the 101st "Screaming Eagles" airborne operation during World War II, the dangerous mission consisted of simultaneous attacks designed to knock-out two key early-warning radar installations in western Iraq at precisely 0238 hours, 17 January 1991. Both radar sites, each hit by a team of four Apaches, were destroyed within a time span of 4.5 minutes. Each pilot's primary target became the secondary target for adjacent Apache team members. I was in Army ROTC at the time and one of the other cadet's fathers was with the 101st, and we got a copy of the gun camera film, after they took out the radars, they did a gun run on the rest ;-) |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 2:22:04 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know Apaches killed radar installations at the beginning but I can't remember if that was the first thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What was the first thing his by coalition forces during the first gulf war, and by what weapons platform? I has always thought F-117's or B2's dropped the first ordnance, but someone today told me AH-64's actually fired the opening shots. This is a bit hard to believe? I know Apaches killed radar installations at the beginning but I can't remember if that was the first thing. This if I recall correctly. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 3:05:54 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tomahawks are easier to shoot down than most aircraft. They come in after the air defenses are reduced. It should be noted that the Apaches targeted radar sites primarily, not actual weapons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Weren't there some Tomahawk strikes against command-and-control targets just prior to the Apaches going in? Or am I thinking of 2003? Tomahawks are easier to shoot down than most aircraft. They come in after the air defenses are reduced. It should be noted that the Apaches targeted radar sites primarily, not actual weapons. Think so, huh?  Those things are the size of an ant's asshole on radar.
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Posted: 10/26/2014 8:42:03 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The truth was the target, the MSM was the weapon. Methylsulfonylmethane was used??? |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 8:44:24 AM EDT
[#45]
The ghost of Vietnam.
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Posted: 10/26/2014 8:47:52 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The truth was the target, the MSM was the weapon. Do tell. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 1:33:32 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do tell. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The truth was the target, the MSM was the weapon. Do tell. x2 |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 2:15:59 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, eight Army AH-64 Apaches led by a USAF MH-53J PAVE LOW kicked off the war with TASK FORCE NORMANDY at precisely 2:38 AM Bagdad time on Jan 17th, 1991. 1st Battalion of the 101st got the honor. By taking out the Iraqi air defense radar sites the Coalition bombers could go in unmolested and do their handiwork. This, SF lased the targets, both were hit at the exact same time so Iraq would think it was an 'outage' rather than an attack. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 2:25:30 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This, SF lased the targets, both were hit at the exact same time so Iraq would think it was an 'outage' rather than an attack. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yep, eight Army AH-64 Apaches led by a USAF MH-53J PAVE LOW kicked off the war with TASK FORCE NORMANDY at precisely 2:38 AM Bagdad time on Jan 17th, 1991. 1st Battalion of the 101st got the honor. By taking out the Iraqi air defense radar sites the Coalition bombers could go in unmolested and do their handiwork. This, SF lased the targets, both were hit at the exact same time so Iraq would think it was an 'outage' rather than an attack. Love the job the SF boys do without any fanfare. Their participation, while not heralded, make many impossible missions possible through their ability to work covertly behind the scenes. Balls of solid brass!!!
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Posted: 10/26/2014 2:34:15 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And some F-15s, but those were about an hour into the battle, after the Stealth guys dropped C&C for the majority of the corridor. That was also when a Growler got ½ credit for downing an enemy MiG by out-maneuvering it, causing it to hit the desert floor. Credit was also given to an F-15 that was coming to aid the Growler for not giving the MiG a chance to get to a higher altitude. I think they later revised it so the Eagle pilot got full credit, though he didn't fire a shot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Some Warthogs. And some F-15s, but those were about an hour into the battle, after the Stealth guys dropped C&C for the majority of the corridor. That was also when a Growler got ½ credit for downing an enemy MiG by out-maneuvering it, causing it to hit the desert floor. Credit was also given to an F-15 that was coming to aid the Growler for not giving the MiG a chance to get to a higher altitude. I think they later revised it so the Eagle pilot got full credit, though he didn't fire a shot. Didn't know we had EA-18Gs in Desert Storm. |
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