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Posted: 10/25/2014 2:59:26 PM EDT
[#1]
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I had surgery a Thursaday and I'm full of painkillers today, so 'm out. I can't gather my thoughts quite the way I would like and probably wouldn't have even posted, but maybe in a week or two I will type what I have been feeling about this subject...or maybe I won't. either way. I'm out of this thread right now. Hope you have a fast recovery. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 2:59:33 PM EDT
[#2]
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So you blame it on people who do not want anyone one to own guns? That is convenient. We might as well not have a Constitution or a Supreme Court then. Just let all of the local people decide what they want even if it infringes on the rights of other citizens. How did that work out for Jim Crow? Same thing you know. Were the cops righteous in enforcing Jim Crow laws just because there were enough idiots that wanted separate facilities for blacks and whites, so they voted for it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No, I blame it on the voters that elect idiots. I know the police officers do not pass legislation. And, as it might surprise you, cops are not allowed to determine what laws are Constitutional and which are not. An before you support that position, are you sure you want cops being the judges of what is Constitutional and what is not? So you blame it on people who do not want anyone one to own guns? That is convenient. We might as well not have a Constitution or a Supreme Court then. Just let all of the local people decide what they want even if it infringes on the rights of other citizens. How did that work out for Jim Crow? Same thing you know. Were the cops righteous in enforcing Jim Crow laws just because there were enough idiots that wanted separate facilities for blacks and whites, so they voted for it? How many blacks were beaten and even sometimes lynched by "righteous" citizens based on just accusations during the time of the Jim Crow laws. The cops weren't the only problem then. Or was it a case of cops enforcing unconstitutional laws that the citizens expected them to. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 2:59:55 PM EDT
[#3]
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I really hope you get a timeout for spamming this. The first time it was funny. Multiple times it's just disruptive. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hold on I will get you your hurt feelings report for you to fill out and give to staff. I really hope you get a timeout for spamming this. The first time it was funny. Multiple times it's just disruptive. If the message applies to more than one person why can I not give that message to multiple people? |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 2:59:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, you are a lawyer, yet you believe it is the responsibility of police officers to determine what is Constitutional and what is not? Can we just do away with Judges and the court system? We could sure save a ton of money.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So let me know the first time a cop calls the local TV station and says "Look, I've done this for fifteen years, and really wanted to keep helping my community, but since the passage of the SAFE Act it is clear that I will be required to violate people's constitutional rights so I'm done, ...... So, you are a lawyer, yet you believe it is the responsibility of police officers to determine what is Constitutional and what is not? Can we just do away with Judges and the court system? We could sure save a ton of money. If a man decides to take up arms against an American for having an AR15, or for sitting in the front of a bus when a black man is supposed to sit in the back, thirty pieces of silver is no excuse.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:00:33 PM EDT
[#5]
click bait troll thread.
 *this gif is purely metaphorical and should not be taken as advocating milk violence against any le or site staff entities. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:00:40 PM EDT
[#6]
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No one I can assure you. I also can assure you that the vast majority of ARFCOMMERS are honest law abiding citizens who pay their bills, have families and love America. Most are model citizens. We are a proLEO website and every ruling and official action in regards to LEOs is made with that position as the guiding mindset. The saddest thing is that for the vast majority of the aforementioned ARFCOMMERs that are honest and law-abiding good decent citizens are WAY more likely to have a negative interaction with a cop here on ARF than in real life and the site continues to support that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Holy troll thread Batman 
Who whines like Internet cops? Jesus Christ, there are threads here constantly bitching about lawyers, union carpenters, auto mechanics, car salesmen. But you know who -sniffle-sniffle- whines and leaves the Internet like a 13 year old who got cut from the junior high cheer team? You know who. So let me know the first time a cop calls the local TV station and says "Look, I've done this for fifteen years, and really wanted to keep helping my community, but since the passage of the SAFE Act it is clear that I will be required to violate people's constitutional rights so I'm done, and I call on my fellow officers to do what's right. Sure I'm losing free dental and there are not a lot of other jobs for me to go into, but I'm not going to rationalize doing the wrong thing by saying it's okay because the legislature passed this law and I'm just following orders. I'm looking for work, please call if you have any openings." No one I can assure you. I also can assure you that the vast majority of ARFCOMMERS are honest law abiding citizens who pay their bills, have families and love America. Most are model citizens. We are a proLEO website and every ruling and official action in regards to LEOs is made with that position as the guiding mindset. The saddest thing is that for the vast majority of the aforementioned ARFCOMMERs that are honest and law-abiding good decent citizens are WAY more likely to have a negative interaction with a cop here on ARF than in real life and the site continues to support that. Deluded much? Oh wait, did you just have a negative interaction? I'm sorry. Yes, every single thing you said about them is gospel and all criticisms against them from anyone however ridiculous or malicious should be met with a smile and a thank you. Is that better? |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:00:42 PM EDT
[#7]
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So explain why the citizens of DC still can't get a CCL for a handgun as of today? If the system works for everyone, why is it still an issue? Are Washington DC's police still enforcing the clearly unconstitutional laws that their politicians continue to pass? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Excellent article. Didn't see anything wrong with it at all. So explain why the citizens of DC still can't get a CCL for a handgun as of today? If the system works for everyone, why is it still an issue? Are Washington DC's police still enforcing the clearly unconstitutional laws that their politicians continue to pass? States vs feds. Current case law is changing as we speak. So are the times and traditions, no matter how wrong the are, they are changing. Good article. Common sense. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:00:46 PM EDT
[#8]
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Holy troll thread Batman
Who whines like Internet cops? Jesus Christ, there are threads here constantly bitching about lawyers, union carpenters, auto mechanics, car salesmen. But you know who -sniffle-sniffle- whines and leaves the Internet like a 13 year old who got cut from the junior high cheer team? You know who. So let me know the first time a cop calls the local TV station and says "Look, I've done this for fifteen years, and really wanted to keep helping my community, but since the passage of the SAFE Act it is clear that I will be required to violate people's constitutional rights so I'm done, and I call on my fellow officers to do what's right. Sure I'm losing free dental and there are not a lot of other jobs for me to go into, but I'm not going to rationalize doing the wrong thing by saying it's okay because the legislature passed this law and I'm just following orders. I'm looking for work, please call if you have any openings." No one I can assure you. I also can assure you that the vast majority of ARFCOMMERS are honest law abiding citizens who pay their bills, have families and love America. Most are model citizens. We are a proLEO website and every ruling and official action in regards to LEOs is made with that position as the guiding mindset. The saddest thing is that for the vast majority of the aforementioned ARFCOMMERs that are honest and law-abiding good decent citizens are WAY more likely to have a negative interaction with a cop here on ARF than in real life and the site continues to support that. The even more sad thing is that I got in trouble for saying "bullshit" to a poster over something similar. I was protecting the members and I ended up getting in trouble for calling bullshit. 
I really am out now though. 
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:00:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's easy to make statements like you are when nobody can say anything insulting back to you without fear of getting banned.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Site staff throws out a troll thread and the threatens people. Pft. Precisely.  Hold on I will get you your hurt feelings report for you to fill out and give to staff. It's easy to make statements like you are when nobody can say anything insulting back to you without fear of getting banned.  |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:00:55 PM EDT
[#10]
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You can order me to hammer someone to a cross, but I won't pick up the hammer. We're all responsible in the end for our own actions. If a man decides to take up arms against an American for having an AR15, or for sitting in the front of a bus when a black man is supposed to sit in the back, thirty pieces of silver is no excuse. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So let me know the first time a cop calls the local TV station and says "Look, I've done this for fifteen years, and really wanted to keep helping my community, but since the passage of the SAFE Act it is clear that I will be required to violate people's constitutional rights so I'm done, ...... So, you are a lawyer, yet you believe it is the responsibility of police officers to determine what is Constitutional and what is not? Can we just do away with Judges and the court system? We could sure save a ton of money.
If a man decides to take up arms against an American for having an AR15, or for sitting in the front of a bus when a black man is supposed to sit in the back, thirty pieces of silver is no excuse. But but but, the law is the law.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:01:13 PM EDT
[#11]
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It's easy to make statements like you are when nobody can say anything insulting back to you without fear of getting banned. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Site staff throws out a troll thread and the threatens people. Pft. Precisely. Hold on I will get you your hurt feelings report for you to fill out and give to staff. It's easy to make statements like you are when nobody can say anything insulting back to you without fear of getting banned. Why don't you try not being insulting? |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:01:42 PM EDT
[#12]
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I am glad to answer that question. It is because the citizens of those locations elect corrupt politicians who pass bad laws. And they elect corrupt Judges that rule wrongly about the laws. You are getting mad at the wrong people when you blame cops for bad laws. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Excellent article. Didn't see anything wrong with it at all. So explain why the citizens of DC still can't get a CCL for a handgun as of today? If the system works for everyone, why is it still an issue? Are Washington DC's police still enforcing the clearly unconstitutional laws that their politicians continue to pass? I am glad to answer that question. It is because the citizens of those locations elect corrupt politicians who pass bad laws. And they elect corrupt Judges that rule wrongly about the laws. You are getting mad at the wrong people when you blame cops for bad laws. So if these politicians are corrupt why haven't leo arrested and charged them? Why is it if the US Constitution, that every officer swore an oath to uphold , is the supreme law of the land and rules supreme don't cops obey it? Either it is the supreme law of the land or its not......Why is it we can all agree that holder and others in our government have violated the law repeatedly, yet not one leo has upheld his oath and arrested even 1 of them? Why is leo not constantly following/observing the bad criminals in our society(the known ones like bangers/dealers) every minute of every day, but instead they are sitting out on the hi way busting average joe for stupid crap like 7 mph over the limit? why are cops doing check points when even the supreme court says they are a violation of our constitutional rights? I love honest, law abiding leo. the ones that aren't, well they shouldn't be leo...And every gov employee weather a politician, leo, or librarian must be made 100% accountable for their actions..every single one of them... |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:01:48 PM EDT
[#13]
I thought the best part of the read was the authors bio.
The rest was your typical "they have a hard job for not great pay, deserve the right tools for the job, theirs bad apples in every organization.... Hardly a revolutionary piece of prose. I'm not a cop basher nor hater. But my opinions have changed over my 40 something years. I've gone from very easily giving the benefit of the doubt to police in questionable situations to what I think is a very healthy skepticism and wanting to know all of the information. How did I get from there to here? It changed gradually over 40 something years from mostly casual contact with LEO. Mostly it changed in the last 10 years. And it was changed by the police themselves. Why are we seeing all of the " cop hate " in social media? Are ALL are those post based on lies and paranoia? Are all of the abuses posted on this forum examples of angelic police officers being misunderstood? I guess I am another example of paranoid. My lying eyes tell me there is a widening "us vs. them mentality on both sides. My lying eyes tell me this has exacerbated the perception that the public is seen as the enemy. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:01:50 PM EDT
[#14]
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You can order me to hammer someone to a cross, but I won't pick up the hammer. We're all responsible in the end for our own actions. If a man decides to take up arms against an American for having an AR15, or for sitting in the front of a bus when a black man is supposed to sit in the back, thirty pieces of silver is no excuse. 
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:01:56 PM EDT
[#15]
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So, you are a lawyer, yet you believe it is the responsibility of police officers to determine what is Constitutional and what is not? Can we just do away with Judges and the court system? We could sure save a ton of money.
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So let me know the first time a cop calls the local TV station and says "Look, I've done this for fifteen years, and really wanted to keep helping my community, but since the passage of the SAFE Act it is clear that I will be required to violate people's constitutional rights so I'm done, ...... So, you are a lawyer, yet you believe it is the responsibility of police officers to determine what is Constitutional and what is not? Can we just do away with Judges and the court system? We could sure save a ton of money.
It is every man's duty to determine honestly what the founders meant when they formed the nation and act accordingly. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:02:01 PM EDT
[#16]
too many straw men in that article to possibly respond.
before the haters - for example; SCUBA gear? What are they, UDT with a badge? Do cops really need Navy SEAL equipment? seriously? is the author trying to imply that people hate cops because they have scuba gear? seriously? that is just plain false.. I cant imagine even stinky hippies bitching about the militarization of UNDERWATER. Herp upon derp. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:02:14 PM EDT
[#17]
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I agree like, 90%. The other 10% is where I find fault. I think that law abiding, tax paying citizens have a right to live safely, comfortably and without exposure to shitbag drug users. So what should police do when they find the junkies shooting up at your kids playground? Smoking meth in the hallway of grandma's apartment building? Smoking weed in the park next to the church youth group picnic? Kind of a catch 22, on one hand I think the "war on drugs" is overzealous and trumped up quite a bit. On the other hand, if any of the above examples called the police and reported the crime, I would HOPE that a cop would come and arrest said druggie. At what point does deterring/fighting drug use to better quality of life for the community become a "war on drugs"??? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
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fuck the war on drugs and dump the laws associated/resulting from it and half of the un-COTUS shit would cease. I didn't say legalize it. Just add the appropriate amount of extra punishment for crimes committed while under the influence. BUTT!!! just because I'm driving with $11K in my truck from Georgia to any other State doesn't mean Proper Coppers have the right to take it because it's probably drug money. BUTT!!! just because two fucks decide to do a huge drug deal on my private beach front property doesn't give the County Mounties the right to also seize my property. BUTT!!! Did I mention "Fuck the War on Drugs"? For those that don't take Patrick Henry's view on such shenanigans... you are not my countrymen. You're the King's men. I agree like, 90%. The other 10% is where I find fault. I think that law abiding, tax paying citizens have a right to live safely, comfortably and without exposure to shitbag drug users. So what should police do when they find the junkies shooting up at your kids playground? Smoking meth in the hallway of grandma's apartment building? Smoking weed in the park next to the church youth group picnic? Kind of a catch 22, on one hand I think the "war on drugs" is overzealous and trumped up quite a bit. On the other hand, if any of the above examples called the police and reported the crime, I would HOPE that a cop would come and arrest said druggie. At what point does deterring/fighting drug use to better quality of life for the community become a "war on drugs"??? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Let the locals determine through the ballot box how to deal with public behaviour. Not some fucking POS elected by tens of millions of druggies in California, Mass., New York, New Jersey yada yada causing affects to other citizens of other sovereign States. Was that so fucking hard? |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:02:18 PM EDT
[#18]
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But but but, the law is the law. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So let me know the first time a cop calls the local TV station and says "Look, I've done this for fifteen years, and really wanted to keep helping my community, but since the passage of the SAFE Act it is clear that I will be required to violate people's constitutional rights so I'm done, ...... So, you are a lawyer, yet you believe it is the responsibility of police officers to determine what is Constitutional and what is not? Can we just do away with Judges and the court system? We could sure save a ton of money.
If a man decides to take up arms against an American for having an AR15, or for sitting in the front of a bus when a black man is supposed to sit in the back, thirty pieces of silver is no excuse. But but but, the law is the law. Are the cops in your state really legally required to enforce gun laws? |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:02:21 PM EDT
[#19]
Thread is going exactly as I thought it would.
I give it 2 more pages then a 'disappear'
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:02:28 PM EDT
[#20]
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How many blacks were beaten and even sometimes lynched by "righteous" citizens based on just accusations during the time of the Jim Crow laws. The cops weren't the only problem then. Or was it a case of cops enforcing unconstitutional laws that the citizens expected them to. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No, I blame it on the voters that elect idiots. I know the police officers do not pass legislation. And, as it might surprise you, cops are not allowed to determine what laws are Constitutional and which are not. An before you support that position, are you sure you want cops being the judges of what is Constitutional and what is not? So you blame it on people who do not want anyone one to own guns? That is convenient. We might as well not have a Constitution or a Supreme Court then. Just let all of the local people decide what they want even if it infringes on the rights of other citizens. How did that work out for Jim Crow? Same thing you know. Were the cops righteous in enforcing Jim Crow laws just because there were enough idiots that wanted separate facilities for blacks and whites, so they voted for it? How many blacks were beaten and even sometimes lynched by "righteous" citizens based on just accusations during the time of the Jim Crow laws. The cops weren't the only problem then. Or was it a case of cops enforcing unconstitutional laws that the citizens expected them to. IIRC more whites were lynched by mobs then blacks. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:02:50 PM EDT
[#21]
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only paranoid people think that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The problem with the "militarization" of the police is that, more and more, they're coming to look at average Americans as "the enemy". It's not only about equipment, though. It's a culture and mindset, too - and as standards are lowered to keep the rosters full, so too will the quality of LEO's deteriorate. Over-the-top violent cops will continue to stomp on the constitution and the good ones left will either become corrupted themselves, or become so disgusted, they'll leave LE altogether. Either way, it's not a rosy scenario and I don't see it getting better anytime soon. Oh. And I don't "hate cops". I am quite aware of what's happening, though. All you need are eyes, ears and a fucking brain. only paranoid people think that. ??
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:03:20 PM EDT
[#22]
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Enforcing the law is, in fact and action, interpretation of the Constitution. That's the silliest thing I've ever seen you post. You are posting with emotion, not logic.
The Court system decides what is Constitutional or not, not policemen. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:03:22 PM EDT
[#23]
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Not a cop basher at all, but why doesn't the author address those states where LEO get special exemptions from gun laws? Where the equipment they carry is a felony for non LEO to own? Agree. There are other issues that weren't mentioned. One issue is cops who don't arrest other another cop when that cop commits a crime in the first officer's presence. Another is the overzealous pursuit of the "war on drugs." If your asset forfeiture policy is to fund the town with it, and your department uses informants whose credibility is non-existent, you're part of the problem. The current response to the cop bash threads is to remind people that in the "good old days," Officer Friendly might bust a few heads with a baton, pocket the cash he took from a pimp, then go drink enough beer to blow a .30 and drive home. That's true to a degree, but it doesn't excuse the current excesses. Nor is it appropriate to tell critics that they should keep quiet unless they've been there and done that. I don't need to be a murder victim to know that murder is wrong. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:03:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can order me to hammer someone to a cross, but I won't pick up the hammer. We're all responsible in the end for our own actions. If a man decides to take up arms against an American for having an AR15, or for sitting in the front of a bus when a black man is supposed to sit in the back, thirty pieces of silver is no excuse. As the nanny state becomes more tyrannical, it stands to reason that fewer liberty-minded people are going to choose LE as a career or continue in it. I predict the quality of officers will decline year by year and incidents for GD thread fodder will increase. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:04:15 PM EDT
[#25]
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No one I can assure you. I also can assure you that the vast majority of ARFCOMMERS are honest law abiding citizens who pay their bills, have families and love America. Most are model citizens. We are a proLEO website and every ruling and official action in regards to LEOs is made with that position as the guiding mindset. The saddest thing is that for the vast majority of the aforementioned ARFCOMMERs that are honest and law-abiding good decent citizens are WAY more likely to have a negative interaction with a cop here on ARF than in real life and the site continues to support that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Holy troll thread Batman
Who whines like Internet cops? Jesus Christ, there are threads here constantly bitching about lawyers, union carpenters, auto mechanics, car salesmen. But you know who -sniffle-sniffle- whines and leaves the Internet like a 13 year old who got cut from the junior high cheer team? You know who. So let me know the first time a cop calls the local TV station and says "Look, I've done this for fifteen years, and really wanted to keep helping my community, but since the passage of the SAFE Act it is clear that I will be required to violate people's constitutional rights so I'm done, and I call on my fellow officers to do what's right. Sure I'm losing free dental and there are not a lot of other jobs for me to go into, but I'm not going to rationalize doing the wrong thing by saying it's okay because the legislature passed this law and I'm just following orders. I'm looking for work, please call if you have any openings." No one I can assure you. I also can assure you that the vast majority of ARFCOMMERS are honest law abiding citizens who pay their bills, have families and love America. Most are model citizens. We are a proLEO website and every ruling and official action in regards to LEOs is made with that position as the guiding mindset. The saddest thing is that for the vast majority of the aforementioned ARFCOMMERs that are honest and law-abiding good decent citizens are WAY more likely to have a negative interaction with a cop here on ARF than in real life and the site continues to support that. Nail meet hammer. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:04:17 PM EDT
[#26]
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Fortunately in most places gun laws are not mandatory arrest laws. Cops can and do let people go for violations up to and including felonies every day. In my state the mandatory arrest laws are pretty much limited to domestic violence, Violation of court orders, child abuse, and elder abuse. The cop doesnt have to chose between enforcing a gun law and his pension. The law allows him to look the other way on violations of such laws. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He's addressing the stupidest complaint about cops: equipment. I don't really care what they use equipment wise. What makes me nervous is the possibility of being in a situation where a cop has to choose between enforcing an unconstitutional bullshit law and arresting a stranger (me)....or sacrificing his pension and future to shield the individual citizenry from the absurd unconstitutional whims of the mob. I don't hate cops, and I certainly don't wish them ill. But I have no illusions about whose interests they will protect first if it comes to enforcing restrictive gun laws. Fortunately in most places gun laws are not mandatory arrest laws. Cops can and do let people go for violations up to and including felonies every day. In my state the mandatory arrest laws are pretty much limited to domestic violence, Violation of court orders, child abuse, and elder abuse. The cop doesnt have to chose between enforcing a gun law and his pension. The law allows him to look the other way on violations of such laws. 4. The rule of the common law, that penal statutes are to be
strictly construed, has no application to this Code. All its provisions are to be construed according to the fair import of their terms, with a view to effect its objects and to promote justice. Do you know off hand which places that isn't the case? Honestly I hope this is all wasted bandwidth and a moot point. We've had a few set backs in a few areas, but the overall trend seems to be pro freedom on the gun front nationally. Best thing any of us can do is keep educating/lobbying/teaching to improve that so this whole cops and confiscation thing is never an issue. 
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:04:43 PM EDT
[#27]
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That's the silliest thing I've ever seen you post. You are posting with emotion, not logic.
The Court system decides what is Constitutional or not, not policemen. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Enforcing the law is, in fact and action, interpretation of the Constitution. That's the silliest thing I've ever seen you post. You are posting with emotion, not logic.
The Court system decides what is Constitutional or not, not policemen. Are you saying cops should not have or use discretion? 
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:04:54 PM EDT
[#28]
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Hold on I will get you your hurt feelings report for you to fill out and give to staff.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hold on I will get you your hurt feelings report for you to fill out and give to staff. I really hope you get a timeout for spamming this. The first time it was funny. Multiple times it's just disruptive. Hold on I will get you your hurt feelings report for you to fill out and give to staff. Okay, that time (and that poster) was funny too.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:05:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Meh I dislike cops and it has nothing to do with the equipment they choose to employ.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:05:35 PM EDT
[#30]
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That's the silliest thing I've ever seen you post. You are posting with emotion, not logic.
The Court system decides what is Constitutional or not, not policemen. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Enforcing the law is, in fact and action, interpretation of the Constitution. That's the silliest thing I've ever seen you post. You are posting with emotion, not logic.
The Court system decides what is Constitutional or not, not policemen. You are just going to run around in circles with him. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:05:43 PM EDT
[#31]
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Neighbor's that are influenced by political adds and candidates that are supported by the State Sheriff's organization and LEO Union talking heads? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Excellent article. Didn't see anything wrong with it at all. So explain why the citizens of DC still can't get a CCL for a handgun as of today? If the system works for everyone, why is it still an issue? Are Washington DC's police still enforcing the clearly unconstitutional laws that their politicians continue to pass? I'll tell you why - because the Unions, Sheriff's and Chief's have fought to have it that way and the rank and file officers (for the most part) don't stand up and say that's wrong. Good Grief. How, exactly, did the Sheriffs get put into that position?  Try connecting the fact that people vote for certain things/ideas and move past the "cops wont fight it" herp derp. Wanna blame someone for a shit political situation? Look at your neighbors.Yes many of those organizations are sickening lefty types, unfortunately, but they are far from the only influences so what's the point? Should they not have a voice? |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:06:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Sorry steven h quote tree is retarded. I do not know what the VA police are required to do and enforce, I know they use discretion on a lot of things though.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:06:16 PM EDT
[#33]
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http://www.breachbangclear.com/why-i-hate-cops/ An excellent read. I will warn the anti-cop members here..keep your posts with in the CoC or you will be shown the door. Argue the merits of this article all you want. Attack cops (including our LEO members here) because they are cops and you will be gone from the site. Do you see the irony in posting an article called "Why I hate cops", And then capping it off by saying "attack Cops because they are Cops and you will be shown the door"? |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:06:51 PM EDT
[#34]
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Okay, that time (and that poster) was funny too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hold on I will get you your hurt feelings report for you to fill out and give to staff. I really hope you get a timeout for spamming this. The first time it was funny. Multiple times it's just disruptive. Hold on I will get you your hurt feelings report for you to fill out and give to staff. Okay, that time (and that poster) was funny too.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:07:51 PM EDT
[#35]
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It is every man's duty to determine honestly what the founders meant when they formed the nation and act accordingly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So let me know the first time a cop calls the local TV station and says "Look, I've done this for fifteen years, and really wanted to keep helping my community, but since the passage of the SAFE Act it is clear that I will be required to violate people's constitutional rights so I'm done, ...... So, you are a lawyer, yet you believe it is the responsibility of police officers to determine what is Constitutional and what is not? Can we just do away with Judges and the court system? We could sure save a ton of money.
It is every man's duty to determine honestly what the founders meant when they formed the nation and act accordingly. Well okay, that's good to know. I am sure that like me, you consider the restriction against machine guns to be un-Constitutional. When will you post a thread about how you have manufactured one because the law is unconstitutional? Because "It is every man's duty to determine honestly what the founders meant when they formed the nation and act accordingly". |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:08:07 PM EDT
[#36]
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Agree. There are other issues that weren't mentioned. One issue is cops who don't arrest other another cop when that cop commits a crime in the first officer's presence. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not a cop basher at all, but why doesn't the author address those states where LEO get special exemptions from gun laws? Where the equipment they carry is a felony for non LEO to own? Agree. There are other issues that weren't mentioned. One issue is cops who don't arrest other another cop when that cop commits a crime in the first officer's presence. Assuming the "good" cop knows the "bad" cop is commiting a crime and actually has the probable cause to justify the arrest, he should. That said the "good" cop cant read minds and doesnt know the reasons for the "bad" cops actions. He most likely wasnt even there for much of the developing situation. This is why EVERY use of force is investigated by a supervisor in progressive departments. Including interviewing the officers, suspect, reviewing audio and video footage, ect. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:09:19 PM EDT
[#37]
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Policy and procedure are not the same thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I personally don't tell people what they need or don't need, or how to do a job I’ve never personally done. It's striking how many people lack the same reservation. And by that logic, anyone who has never been President has no right to criticize the job the President is doing. So we should all just shut the hell up and accept whatever Obama says is best for us. Policy and procedure are not the same thing. 
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:10:34 PM EDT
[#38]
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Yep. When I tried to make that point in the past it seemed like it fell on deaf ears. /shrug Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Holy troll thread Batman
Who whines like Internet cops? Jesus Christ, there are threads here constantly bitching about lawyers, union carpenters, auto mechanics, car salesmen. But you know who -sniffle-sniffle- whines and leaves the Internet like a 13 year old who got cut from the junior high cheer team? You know who. So let me know the first time a cop calls the local TV station and says "Look, I've done this for fifteen years, and really wanted to keep helping my community, but since the passage of the SAFE Act it is clear that I will be required to violate people's constitutional rights so I'm done, and I call on my fellow officers to do what's right. Sure I'm losing free dental and there are not a lot of other jobs for me to go into, but I'm not going to rationalize doing the wrong thing by saying it's okay because the legislature passed this law and I'm just following orders. I'm looking for work, please call if you have any openings." No one I can assure you. I also can assure you that the vast majority of ARFCOMMERS are honest law abiding citizens who pay their bills, have families and love America. Most are model citizens. We are a proLEO website and every ruling and official action in regards to LEOs is made with that position as the guiding mindset. The saddest thing is that for the vast majority of the aforementioned ARFCOMMERs that are honest and law-abiding good decent citizens are WAY more likely to have a negative interaction with a cop here on ARF than in real life and the site continues to support that. Yep. When I tried to make that point in the past it seemed like it fell on deaf ears. /shrug It generally seems that bashing starts over Use of Force threads. While I've only been here a short time, it seems to me that Blue team tries to explain how the actions are lawful which some folks perceive as biased. I have no problem at all saying a cop is wrong, but Use of Force issues are a sticky matter. Without being in that position and possessing only a limited picture of whats taken place, its no wonder the fighting starts. The Reasonable Officer standard exists for a damn fine reason. It really doesn't seem absurd to withhold judgment on many cases due to limited or even flat out wrong information in circulation. More often than not, it has zero to do with the "thin blue line" or a code of silence" but wanting a full picture of what actually took place, and what information was available to all involved parties as the incident unfolded. If that makes ME an apologist, so be it. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:10:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Step away from the computer for awhile to load the moving truck and I miss the good threads.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:10:59 PM EDT
[#40]
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Are you saying cops should not have or use discretion? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Enforcing the law is, in fact and action, interpretation of the Constitution. That's the silliest thing I've ever seen you post. You are posting with emotion, not logic.
The Court system decides what is Constitutional or not, not policemen. Are you saying cops should not have or use discretion? Of course they should. But they are sworn to enforce the laws of the land, as passed by the Legislatures and ruled Constitutional by the Court system. They can't decide which laws are Constitutional or not. They have no authority to do that. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:12:09 PM EDT
[#41]
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You can order me to hammer someone to a cross, but I won't pick up the hammer. We're all responsible in the end for our own actions. If a man decides to take up arms against an American for having an AR15, or for sitting in the front of a bus when a black man is supposed to sit in the back, thirty pieces of silver is no excuse. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So let me know the first time a cop calls the local TV station and says "Look, I've done this for fifteen years, and really wanted to keep helping my community, but since the passage of the SAFE Act it is clear that I will be required to violate people's constitutional rights so I'm done, ...... So, you are a lawyer, yet you believe it is the responsibility of police officers to determine what is Constitutional and what is not? Can we just do away with Judges and the court system? We could sure save a ton of money.
If a man decides to take up arms against an American for having an AR15, or for sitting in the front of a bus when a black man is supposed to sit in the back, thirty pieces of silver is no excuse. How does that righteousness mesh with the concept of working your ass off for thirty pieces of silver to make sure someone who is obviously guilty, and if your work is successful will without a doubt go on to harm others? |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:12:39 PM EDT
[#42]
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I am glad to answer that question. It is because the citizens of those locations elect corrupt politicians who pass bad laws. And they elect corrupt Judges that rule wrongly about the laws. You are getting mad at the wrong people when you blame cops for bad laws. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Excellent article. Didn't see anything wrong with it at all. So explain why the citizens of DC still can't get a CCL for a handgun as of today? If the system works for everyone, why is it still an issue? Are Washington DC's police still enforcing the clearly unconstitutional laws that their politicians continue to pass? I am glad to answer that question. It is because the citizens of those locations elect corrupt politicians who pass bad laws. And they elect corrupt Judges that rule wrongly about the laws. You are getting mad at the wrong people when you blame cops for bad laws. Then we have to ask if the police should enforce laws that are clearly wrong. If DC had a law that banned the possession of books, I like to think that no officer would enforce it. I like to think that, but the Corporation Counsel for the City Of New York went to court to argue in favor of Bloomberg's 32 ounce soda ban. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:12:57 PM EDT
[#43]
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Of course it has to do with elected officials. But those I named back those officials, give them campaign contributions, vocally support the laws they write and in some cases even help draft those laws. You forgot to add its the cops who choose to enforce it..... |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:13:19 PM EDT
[#44]
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Every no refusal checkpoint, every road side asset forfeiture, every no knock raid for anything other than the preservation of life is every cop involved in it saying fuck the Constitution. You can hide behind your legal rationalizations all you want, because that's all they are. Enforcing the law is, in fact and action, interpretation of the Constitution. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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...are you sure you want cops being the judges of what is Constitutional and what is not? They already do it. Badly. No they don't, and you know it. The Court system decides what is Constitutional or not, and finally the Supreme Court. Cops cannot do that. Every no refusal checkpoint, every road side asset forfeiture, every no knock raid for anything other than the preservation of life is every cop involved in it saying fuck the Constitution. You can hide behind your legal rationalizations all you want, because that's all they are. Enforcing the law is, in fact and action, interpretation of the Constitution. I appreciate your thoughts on the topic, but the court system determines what is/isn't legal according to the USC. We'll have to disagree, respectfully. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:13:59 PM EDT
[#45]
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Site staff throws out a troll thread and the threatens people. Pft. agree, also love that LE is the only profession you can't attack....AMERIKA oh and I come from a family of cops! |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:14:13 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well okay, that's good to know. I am sure that like me, you consider the restriction against machine guns to be un-Constitutional. When will you post a thread about how you have manufactured one because the law is unconstitutional? Because "It is every man's duty to determine honestly what the founders meant when they formed the nation and act accordingly". It's also every man's duty to weigh the consequences of his actions and act accordingly. Yeah, it's bullshit that if I go take my 7.5" pistol upper and put it onto one of my rifle lowers, I've committed a crime. I should be able to do that. Is violating that law worth my freedom, my life, or someone else's life if they're sent here to arrest me for doing so? I don't think so, especially not while we still have recourse to fix that bullshit in a peaceful way. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:14:16 PM EDT
[#47]
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How does that righteousness mesh with the concept of working your ass off for thirty pieces of silver to make sure someone who is obviously guilty, and if your work is successful will without a doubt go on to harm others? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So let me know the first time a cop calls the local TV station and says "Look, I've done this for fifteen years, and really wanted to keep helping my community, but since the passage of the SAFE Act it is clear that I will be required to violate people's constitutional rights so I'm done, ...... So, you are a lawyer, yet you believe it is the responsibility of police officers to determine what is Constitutional and what is not? Can we just do away with Judges and the court system? We could sure save a ton of money.
If a man decides to take up arms against an American for having an AR15, or for sitting in the front of a bus when a black man is supposed to sit in the back, thirty pieces of silver is no excuse. How does that righteousness mesh with the concept of working your ass off for thirty pieces of silver to make sure someone who is obviously guilty, and if your work is successful will without a doubt go on to harm others? Snort. 
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:14:37 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They can't decide which laws are Constitutional or not. They have no authority to do that. That's kinda getting into a gray area... almost a semantic argument. "Unconstitutional" vs. "Illegal".... Like others have mentioned... cops enforcing Jim Crow laws were perfectly "legal" per the laws of their jurisdictions at the time. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:14:44 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course they should. But they are sworn to enforce the laws of the land, as passed by the Legislatures and ruled Constitutional by the Court system. They can't decide which laws are Constitutional or not. They have no authority to do that. So in your view, the Nuremberg defense is perfectly valid? |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:15:05 PM EDT
[#50]
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Agree. There are other issues that weren't mentioned. One issue is cops who don't arrest other another cop when that cop commits a crime in the first officer's presence. Another is the overzealous pursuit of the "war on drugs." If your asset forfeiture policy is to fund the town with it, and your department uses informants whose credibility is non-existent, you're part of the problem. The current response to the cop bash threads is to remind people that in the "good old days," Officer Friendly might bust a few heads with a baton, pocket the cash he took from a pimp, then go drink enough beer to blow a .30 and drive home. That's true to a degree, but it doesn't excuse the current excesses. Nor is it appropriate to tell critics that they should keep quiet unless they've been there and done that. I don't need to be a murder victim to know that murder is wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not a cop basher at all, but why doesn't the author address those states where LEO get special exemptions from gun laws? Where the equipment they carry is a felony for non LEO to own? Agree. There are other issues that weren't mentioned. One issue is cops who don't arrest other another cop when that cop commits a crime in the first officer's presence. Another is the overzealous pursuit of the "war on drugs." If your asset forfeiture policy is to fund the town with it, and your department uses informants whose credibility is non-existent, you're part of the problem. The current response to the cop bash threads is to remind people that in the "good old days," Officer Friendly might bust a few heads with a baton, pocket the cash he took from a pimp, then go drink enough beer to blow a .30 and drive home. That's true to a degree, but it doesn't excuse the current excesses. Nor is it appropriate to tell critics that they should keep quiet unless they've been there and done that. I don't need to be a murder victim to know that murder is wrong. Read the article again. He specifically states that corruption and illegality exist. |
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