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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:04:32 PM EDT
[#1]
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Anyone that says you can wear out a weapon by "cleaning it too much" isn't thinking that statement through..... Happens all of the time. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:05:31 PM EDT
[#2]
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This is a current article? There is no ammo shortage. Unless they are practicing with .22 rimfire. Yes, there is a current ammo shortage to the Border Patrol. They are getting 150 rds or less a quarter and that includes qualification ammo. What your local Walmart has in ammo does not mean the CBP has ammo. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:28:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, there is a current ammo shortage to the Border Patrol. They are getting 150 rds or less a quarter and that includes qualification ammo. What your local Walmart has in ammo does not mean the CBP has ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This is a current article? There is no ammo shortage. Unless they are practicing with .22 rimfire. Yes, there is a current ammo shortage to the Border Patrol. They are getting 150 rds or less a quarter and that includes qualification ammo. What your local Walmart has in ammo does not mean the CBP has ammo. "...the Border Patrol has been hit hard by the ammo shortage just like the rest of us." reads like there is an ammo shortage affecting all of us. There is not an ammo shortage. The people in charge refusing to procure ammunition for their officers to practice with is not a nationwide ammo shortage, it is neglect of training. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:48:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"...the Border Patrol has been hit hard by the ammo shortage just like the rest of us." reads like there is an ammo shortage affecting all of us. There is not an ammo shortage. The people in charge refusing to procure ammunition for their officers to practice with is not a nationwide ammo shortage, it is neglect of training. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This is a current article? There is no ammo shortage. Unless they are practicing with .22 rimfire. Yes, there is a current ammo shortage to the Border Patrol. They are getting 150 rds or less a quarter and that includes qualification ammo. What your local Walmart has in ammo does not mean the CBP has ammo. "...the Border Patrol has been hit hard by the ammo shortage just like the rest of us." reads like there is an ammo shortage affecting all of us. There is not an ammo shortage. The people in charge refusing to procure ammunition for their officers to practice with is not a nationwide ammo shortage, it is neglect of training. The bigger problem is training time....there is none allocated, usually 4 hours a quarter or so for qualifying, and maybe another 4 hours for less than lethal. Mountains of ammo wouldn't change that. In general, the BP isn't equipped anywhere near what it's mission set would seem to require, and much of the training seems to be focused on the 'operators' not the rank and file. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 3:54:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"...the Border Patrol has been hit hard by the ammo shortage just like the rest of us." reads like there is an ammo shortage affecting all of us. There is not an ammo shortage. The people in charge refusing to procure ammunition for their officers to practice with is not a nationwide ammo shortage, it is neglect of training. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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This is a current article? There is no ammo shortage. Unless they are practicing with .22 rimfire. Yes, there is a current ammo shortage to the Border Patrol. They are getting 150 rds or less a quarter and that includes qualification ammo. What your local Walmart has in ammo does not mean the CBP has ammo. "...the Border Patrol has been hit hard by the ammo shortage just like the rest of us." reads like there is an ammo shortage affecting all of us. There is not an ammo shortage. The people in charge refusing to procure ammunition for their officers to practice with is not a nationwide ammo shortage, it is neglect of training. Pretty much but if they're not buying ammo.....they are short on ammo. If it's not in the supply system, they can't get it. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:36:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Updated with inspection sheet the inspectors are using. Note the stuff about the gas rings
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Posted: 10/25/2014 8:07:26 PM EDT
[#7]
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Also, the random assortment of optics/BuIS would make it hard to train consistently. 50 rounds per quarter is what many agents are getting (the basic qualification course of fire is, coincidentally, 50 rounds). Actually, our pistol qual is 72 rounds, the rifle qual is 50. I haven't gotten a 150 round issue of practice ammo in a couple years now, that was meted out at the end of the qual day and we had to sign for it. No argument on the mixed optics, they're out there...depends on who was doing the purchasing and what was available en mass. Personally, I'll grab a rack gun without optics and just shoot irons without taking any sighters. I do prefer the ACOG on the M4 (my last issued rifle had the ACOG) and the Eotech on the UMP40. The "rack" guns at the range where I qual are probably some of those that were deadlined, last quarter the rack gun I was using wouldn't run more than two rounds on full auto...hard to shoot three round bursts on FA when it'll only run two. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 8:11:48 PM EDT
[#8]
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I thought the military had moved away from the white glove inspection BS? Extreme cold and moondust are the only two instances where having a bone dry white glove inspection ready weapon could be a good thing. Even PS Magazine has had comics about moving away from the white glove inspections on service weapons. PS has been putting out anti-white glove articles now for at least 25 years. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 8:14:29 PM EDT
[#9]
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Actually, our pistol qual is 72 rounds, the rifle qual is 50. I haven't gotten a 150 round issue of practice ammo in a couple years now, that was meted out at the end of the qual day and we had to sign for it. No argument on the mixed optics, they're out there...depends on who was doing the purchasing and what was available en mass. Personally, I'll grab a rack gun without optics and just shoot irons without taking any sighters. I do prefer the ACOG on the M4 (my last issued rifle had the ACOG) and the Eotech on the UMP40. The "rack" guns at the range where I qual are probably some of those that were deadlined, last quarter the rack gun I was using wouldn't run more than two rounds on full auto...hard to shoot three round bursts on FA when it'll only run two. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also, the random assortment of optics/BuIS would make it hard to train consistently. 50 rounds per quarter is what many agents are getting (the basic qualification course of fire is, coincidentally, 50 rounds). Actually, our pistol qual is 72 rounds, the rifle qual is 50. I haven't gotten a 150 round issue of practice ammo in a couple years now, that was meted out at the end of the qual day and we had to sign for it. No argument on the mixed optics, they're out there...depends on who was doing the purchasing and what was available en mass. Personally, I'll grab a rack gun without optics and just shoot irons without taking any sighters. I do prefer the ACOG on the M4 (my last issued rifle had the ACOG) and the Eotech on the UMP40. The "rack" guns at the range where I qual are probably some of those that were deadlined, last quarter the rack gun I was using wouldn't run more than two rounds on full auto...hard to shoot three round bursts on FA when it'll only run two. Just so I'm clear, part of your quarterly ammo allotment (50/72) is sighting in a rifle that you didn't zero? |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 8:19:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Happens all of the time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Anyone that says you can wear out a weapon by "cleaning it too much" isn't thinking that statement through..... Happens all of the time. Because heaven forbid somebody should break out a TM and a Map and try and teach land nav...or field hygiene...or how to call in a firemission.......or how to properly emplace a weapon system like a crew serve.....or how to utilize a mortar........or how to set up an ambush...........or anything else from a CTT Book when they can molest a perfectly clean and innocent weapon. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 8:23:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Didn't they just downsize the active army by almost 40,000? That should free up plenty of M4 carbines for BP use. How many M16A1s are still at Anniston? Army going to the heavier SOCOM M4A1 barrel that should leave plenty of serviceable tapered M4 barrels BP can use. I bet there are still M60E3/E4 in inventory that BP could use for some sectors. Plenty of materiel out there. FDA, Postal Inspectors, all those other controversial purchases of M4s, give 'em up for the folks that actually need them |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 8:27:21 PM EDT
[#12]
One thing I discovered in the army is that if you follow the PMCS procedure in the manual you can deadline even brand new just issued equipment.
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Posted: 10/25/2014 8:28:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just so I'm clear, part of your quarterly ammo allotment (50/72) is sighting in a rifle that you didn't zero? No, if I wanted to take a few sighters to adjust the irons the range staff would have 5 to 10 rounds for me. I prefer to play hardass and go for it without any sighters...one, just to prove a qualifying score can be fired without sighters and two, because if SHTF and I just grabbed a rifle from the rack at the station it wouldn't be sighted for me (as I don't have an issue rifle at this time). Pistol is 72 rounds from the 1.5 to the 25 yard line. Rifle is 50 rounds from the 100 in to the 7 yard line (7 and 15 yards are FA stages) UMP is identical to the M4 Shotgun is supposed to be 25 - 5 slugs and 20 buck, slugs at 50, buck 25 and in. Only the slugs are scored though. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 8:30:11 PM EDT
[#14]
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One thing I discovered in the army is that if you follow the PMCS procedure in the manual you can deadline even brand new just issued equipment. We have a Winnah! I too made the same observation. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 8:30:57 PM EDT
[#15]
what do you expect out of the government. I was a federal employee for 3 months and said "screw this". The government is made up of people that cant hang in private industry. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 8:43:05 PM EDT
[#16]
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what do you expect out of the government. I was a federal employee for 3 months and said "screw this". The government is made up of people that cant hang in private industry. There's good and bad. I'm a federal employee, I've never been held to a higher standard than at this job. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 9:03:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty much but if they're not buying ammo.....they are short on ammo. If it's not in the supply system, they can't get it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This is a current article? There is no ammo shortage. Unless they are practicing with .22 rimfire. Yes, there is a current ammo shortage to the Border Patrol. They are getting 150 rds or less a quarter and that includes qualification ammo. What your local Walmart has in ammo does not mean the CBP has ammo. "...the Border Patrol has been hit hard by the ammo shortage just like the rest of us." reads like there is an ammo shortage affecting all of us. There is not an ammo shortage. The people in charge refusing to procure ammunition for their officers to practice with is not a nationwide ammo shortage, it is neglect of training. Pretty much but if they're not buying ammo.....they are short on ammo. If it's not in the supply system, they can't get it. It's in the supply system, literally by the ton. Whether or not sufficient training allowance is ordered by the BP is another matter. On the maintenance issue, I get the impression that the BP does not have an O-level planned maintenance program established, or if they do, it is not properly trained and/or spot checked. That's a failure of leadership. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 10:40:06 PM EDT
[#18]
I'm very confused.
The CBP stations were given a perfunctory warning but were surprised by the level of detail of the inspections. The following parts were replaced on the spot:
Gas rings Firing pins Upgraded buffers to Colt H2 buffers (heavier than the standard H buffer) Cotter pins Buffer springs (amazingly for armorers they had a ruler to measure these) Bolt carriers ...Go/no go gauges were used on the chambers and even the bolt carrier group (BCG). A special tool to see if the barrel was bent was used and bent barrels were found. They would issue 150 rounds per agent a quarter for practice ammo IF they had the ammo. Is deadlining of the guns some kind of political ploy to further neuter the border patrol or were these guns actually worn out? If they were actually worn out then fire whoever is in charge of routine maintenance or the parts budget. If there's no budget for spare parts the start raising hell. If they're deadlining guns that are not actually worn out then they'd best be getting serious about causing a ruckus. Sounds like this kind of BS is what a union should be best at. If these guys are being sent out without enough weapons into a deadly job they ought to be striking or doing something to draw lots of attention until someone loses their job and the situation is addressed. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 10:49:24 PM EDT
[#19]
That "article" has the stench of being written by some tiny penis gun nut trying to justify his beliefs on particular items and their suitability or lack of.
It smells like shit to me.  |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 11:02:45 PM EDT
[#20]
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That "article" has the stench of being written by some tiny penis gun nut trying to justify his beliefs on particular items and their suitability or lack of. It smells like shit to me. Written nearly verabtim from firsthand accounts but any time you want to measure cocks.... |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 11:06:37 PM EDT
[#21]
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I assume the BP has a no personal weapons policy? This could be partially fixed very quickly if the authorization came down for agents to use personal carbines on the job. You have to check out rifles, shotguns and nvg. If everyone wants to check out one, then too bad so sad for most. There's not even a vehicle available for everyone immediately after muster. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 11:19:20 PM EDT
[#22]
From one of the armored/inspectors. Those that are contacting me offline should read.
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13825-US-Border-Patrol-rifle-issue&p=264144&viewfull=1#post264144 |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 12:13:14 AM EDT
[#23]
Tag.
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Posted: 10/26/2014 8:36:18 AM EDT
[#24]
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Tag. Interesting location
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Posted: 10/26/2014 9:27:47 AM EDT
[#25]
Meanwhile, the police are being militarized. Liberals know where their real enemy is.
January 22, 2017. Let's get there alive. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 9:50:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Happens all of the time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Anyone that says you can wear out a weapon by "cleaning it too much" isn't thinking that statement through..... Happens all of the time. Really? Almost a quarter century of using and cleaning issue rifles, pistols, GPMGs / HMGs, and I've yet to see one litteraly "worn out" simply from being cleaned. I've seen weapons (M9s, M16s, M2s) break outright from use and abuse. Parts do fail, but wiping carbon off metal surfaces usually doesn't involve anything more than a GP brush and CLP soaked rag. If you're talking about idiots slamming their weapons around while they field strip them or attempt to improperly assemble one, then yea, I can see how weapons would break during "cleaning", but that's operator error and a completely separate issue. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 9:58:22 AM EDT
[#27]
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Really? Almost a quarter century of using and cleaning issue rifles, pistols, GPMGs / HMGs, and I've yet to see one litteraly "worn out" simply from being cleaned. I've seen weapons (M9s, M16s, M2s) break outright from use and abuse. Parts do fail, but wiping carbon off metal surfaces usually doesn't involve anything more than a GP brush and CLP soaked rag. If you're talking about idiots slamming their weapons around while they field strip them or attempt to improperly assemble one, then yea, I can see how weapons would break during "cleaning", but that's operator error and a completely separate issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Anyone that says you can wear out a weapon by "cleaning it too much" isn't thinking that statement through..... Happens all of the time. Really? Almost a quarter century of using and cleaning issue rifles, pistols, GPMGs / HMGs, and I've yet to see one litteraly "worn out" simply from being cleaned. I've seen weapons (M9s, M16s, M2s) break outright from use and abuse. Parts do fail, but wiping carbon off metal surfaces usually doesn't involve anything more than a GP brush and CLP soaked rag. If you're talking about idiots slamming their weapons around while they field strip them or attempt to improperly assemble one, then yea, I can see how weapons would break during "cleaning", but that's operator error and a completely separate issue. You've never seen a crown ruined from scraping? |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 11:17:15 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You've never seen a crown ruined from scraping? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Anyone that says you can wear out a weapon by "cleaning it too much" isn't thinking that statement through..... Happens all of the time. Really? Almost a quarter century of using and cleaning issue rifles, pistols, GPMGs / HMGs, and I've yet to see one litteraly "worn out" simply from being cleaned. I've seen weapons (M9s, M16s, M2s) break outright from use and abuse. Parts do fail, but wiping carbon off metal surfaces usually doesn't involve anything more than a GP brush and CLP soaked rag. If you're talking about idiots slamming their weapons around while they field strip them or attempt to improperly assemble one, then yea, I can see how weapons would break during "cleaning", but that's operator error and a completely separate issue. You've never seen a crown ruined from scraping? How are you going to ruin the crown on an M4? There is a flash suppressor there. You really can't get to the crown. Scraping carbon off of the back of the bolt is not going to hurt it unless you are using a hammer and chisel. Proper cleaning contributes little if any to the wear of the rifle. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 11:59:04 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You've never seen a crown ruined from scraping? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Anyone that says you can wear out a weapon by "cleaning it too much" isn't thinking that statement through..... Happens all of the time. Really? Almost a quarter century of using and cleaning issue rifles, pistols, GPMGs / HMGs, and I've yet to see one litteraly "worn out" simply from being cleaned. I've seen weapons (M9s, M16s, M2s) break outright from use and abuse. Parts do fail, but wiping carbon off metal surfaces usually doesn't involve anything more than a GP brush and CLP soaked rag. If you're talking about idiots slamming their weapons around while they field strip them or attempt to improperly assemble one, then yea, I can see how weapons would break during "cleaning", but that's operator error and a completely separate issue. You've never seen a crown ruined from scraping? Scraped with what? The only thing authorized to clean the muzzle of an M16 was a Q-tip. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 2:43:07 PM EDT
[#30]
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Scraped with what? The only thing authorized to clean the muzzle of an M16 was a Q-tip. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Anyone that says you can wear out a weapon by "cleaning it too much" isn't thinking that statement through..... Happens all of the time. Really? Almost a quarter century of using and cleaning issue rifles, pistols, GPMGs / HMGs, and I've yet to see one litteraly "worn out" simply from being cleaned. I've seen weapons (M9s, M16s, M2s) break outright from use and abuse. Parts do fail, but wiping carbon off metal surfaces usually doesn't involve anything more than a GP brush and CLP soaked rag. If you're talking about idiots slamming their weapons around while they field strip them or attempt to improperly assemble one, then yea, I can see how weapons would break during "cleaning", but that's operator error and a completely separate issue. You've never seen a crown ruined from scraping? Scraped with what? The only thing authorized to clean the muzzle of an M16 was a Q-tip. You're quite right, in my eight years in the Marine Corps infantry I never saw anything type of unauthorized cleaning going on nor encouraged. I'm sure no other Marine nor folks from other services saw any such thing either. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 4:33:27 PM EDT
[#31]
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I figured the next move would be to cancel the BP altogether and open the border up to any and all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The next move to neuter BP will be to deadline BP vehicles because the dashboard vent control knobs aren't up to snuff. I figured the next move would be to cancel the BP altogether and open the border up to any and all. first, they need to make the BP unable to function, then justification can be made to dissolve it. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 4:40:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Happens all of the time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Anyone that says you can wear out a weapon by "cleaning it too much" isn't thinking that statement through..... Happens all of the time. especially the rifling. improper/ too frequent cleaning can radically shorten barrel life and accuracy. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 4:50:08 PM EDT
[#33]
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They lost 40% of their rifles and before that only had one rifle per three agents. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No clicky. Require temptation. Lack thereof.  They lost 40% of their rifles and before that only had one rifle per three agents. Lost as in Holder is sending them all south of the border lost? |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 4:52:17 PM EDT
[#34]
Jeez, what the hell is Homeland Security using their funds on?
Pensions and bullshit admin costs probably with benefit packages and so forth probably eat up a shit ton of the budget to the point where now I have to read an article about how they don't have enough rifles. 
Ok, let's toss more money at the problem right? The average tax paying citizen is already turning over three months of salary every damn year to the Feds and they still can't do basic shit like secure my border instead of taking away my Constitutional right in the name of the so called "War on Drugs." Easy solution, let them buy their own rifles and use their own rifles if they meet certain agency guidelines. Problem solved. Those guy make enough money to get a very decent AR from BCM, Daniel Defense, etc and decent optics as well. They also make more than enough money to train with top notch guys. Either that or they need to take a look at where they're spending their money and redistribute it better. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 5:12:24 PM EDT
[#35]
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Lost as in Holder is sending them all south of the border lost? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No clicky. Require temptation. Lack thereof. They lost 40% of their rifles and before that only had one rifle per three agents. Lost as in Holder is sending them all south of the border lost? As in "deadlined" or taken out of the duty rotation per......the article
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Posted: 10/26/2014 5:16:49 PM EDT
[#36]
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They lost 40% of their rifles and before that only had one rifle per three agents. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No clicky. Require temptation. Lack thereof. They lost 40% of their rifles and before that only had one rifle per three agents. It's not that hard to hold the gate open so not sure why they need rifles anyway. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 5:32:34 PM EDT
[#37]
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How are you going to ruin the crown on an M4? There is a flash suppressor there. You really can't get to the crown. Scraping carbon off of the back of the bolt is not going to hurt it unless you are using a hammer and chisel. Proper cleaning contributes little if any to the wear of the rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Anyone that says you can wear out a weapon by "cleaning it too much" isn't thinking that statement through..... Happens all of the time. Really? Almost a quarter century of using and cleaning issue rifles, pistols, GPMGs / HMGs, and I've yet to see one litteraly "worn out" simply from being cleaned. I've seen weapons (M9s, M16s, M2s) break outright from use and abuse. Parts do fail, but wiping carbon off metal surfaces usually doesn't involve anything more than a GP brush and CLP soaked rag. If you're talking about idiots slamming their weapons around while they field strip them or attempt to improperly assemble one, then yea, I can see how weapons would break during "cleaning", but that's operator error and a completely separate issue. You've never seen a crown ruined from scraping? How are you going to ruin the crown on an M4? There is a flash suppressor there. You really can't get to the crown. Scraping carbon off of the back of the bolt is not going to hurt it unless you are using a hammer and chisel. Proper cleaning contributes little if any to the wear of the rifle. Are you saying that it's impossible to get to crown with a cleaning rod and there this could not happen? |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 6:28:14 PM EDT
[#38]
I'd appreciate any data on how the BP's UMPs are running. Here or privately.
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Posted: 10/26/2014 9:53:47 PM EDT
[#39]
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especially the rifling. improper/ too frequent cleaning can radically shorten barrel life and accuracy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Anyone that says you can wear out a weapon by "cleaning it too much" isn't thinking that statement through..... Happens all of the time. especially the rifling. improper/ too frequent cleaning can radically shorten barrel life and accuracy. Tell that to a Drill Sergeant. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 10:00:43 PM EDT
[#40]
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Are you saying that it's impossible to get to crown with a cleaning rod and there this could not happen? Sure it could. And some dumb fuck COULD take a pipe wrench and remove the barrel. The muzzle don't get enough carbon on it to scrape off. The amount it gets can be removed with some solvent and a Q-tip if the weapon is cleaned regularly. Our M16A1s had been cleaned literally thousands of times and still shot accurately. And this by dumb fucks that didn't know the first thing about the M16. It is really hard to fuck up an AR unless you are doing something stupid like using it as a pry bar. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 10:18:55 PM EDT
[#41]
I live in a very close proximity to the Falfurrias Checkpoint and have had many interactions with B.P. over the years in pursing Illegals. I can say I have seen very few with rifles, NVG's, or Thermals. It is mostly the supervisory agents that had the gear that would help them out the most. I am better equipped for daytime and nighttime operations than most B.P. Agents just because I manage a game ranch and want to hunt predatory animals at night.
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Posted: 10/26/2014 10:19:02 PM EDT
[#42]
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I'd appreciate any data on how the BP's UMPs are running. Here or privately. I got out of BP many moons ago. Just curious, why such an interest? |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 10:33:47 PM EDT
[#43]
I'd love to say this is some kind of conspiracy to deprive the BP of their rifles, but I feel it is more along the lines of incredible ineptitude and a complete lack of planning and foresight. Having dealt with the .Gov for the past 17 years I would say I have some authority on the subject. I have never seen any Agency do such a comprehensive review of their longarms. I do know that the Armorers did not check a single pistol, shotgun, or UMP subgun. Only the Colt M4's. Some of the M4's have been there as long as I have. At any rate an Agency that set out to do an overall review of it's service rifles should have had some inkling that the armorers would find problems and certain weapons would need to be replaced. A competent authority would've had a plan to immediately replace those weapons that were down-checked. Clearly this is not the case.
Pretty much every part of DHS and CBP in particular barely manages to make it through the day. Check out the recent Federal Employee Survey and it will show you that the guys on the ground have no respect for the so called leaders they serve under. There's a reason for this and it is poorly thought through and implemented plans like this that bring the Agency to its knees at an embarrassing rate. Look at the rifle issue as a symptom of a greater problem. A cough could be just a bug or a symptom of a much more serious problem. The fact that the clowns in charge gave no thought to the results of their little plans and the unintended consequences that their stupidity generates is so typical it's almost laughable. Don't blame the cough for the cold, blame the virus that is DHS and all its minions. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 6:23:11 AM EDT
[#44]
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Scraped with what? The only thing authorized to clean the muzzle of an M16 was a Q-tip. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Anyone that says you can wear out a weapon by "cleaning it too much" isn't thinking that statement through..... Happens all of the time. Really? Almost a quarter century of using and cleaning issue rifles, pistols, GPMGs / HMGs, and I've yet to see one litteraly "worn out" simply from being cleaned. I've seen weapons (M9s, M16s, M2s) break outright from use and abuse. Parts do fail, but wiping carbon off metal surfaces usually doesn't involve anything more than a GP brush and CLP soaked rag. If you're talking about idiots slamming their weapons around while they field strip them or attempt to improperly assemble one, then yea, I can see how weapons would break during "cleaning", but that's operator error and a completely separate issue. You've never seen a crown ruined from scraping? Scraped with what? The only thing authorized to clean the muzzle of an M16 was a Q-tip. Recruit training they would tell use to use the firing pin to scrap under the flash suppressor and follow up with the chamber brush. They also had us save 1 striper clip to scrape the bolt carrier expansion chamber and use Brillo pads and household cleaners when cleaning to remove all the carbon. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 7:11:04 AM EDT
[#45]
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I got out of BP many moons ago. Just curious, why such an interest? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'd appreciate any data on how the BP's UMPs are running. Here or privately. I got out of BP many moons ago. Just curious, why such an interest? I am collecting data with regards to the BP's planned move to 11.5" Colts M4s and the resulting replacement of the UMP. Plus....gun geek. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 7:48:11 AM EDT
[#46]
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It's in the supply system, literally by the ton. Whether or not sufficient training allowance is ordered by the BP is another matter. On the maintenance issue, I get the impression that the BP does not have an O-level planned maintenance program established, or if they do, it is not properly trained and/or spot checked. That's a failure of leadership. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This is a current article? There is no ammo shortage. Unless they are practicing with .22 rimfire. Yes, there is a current ammo shortage to the Border Patrol. They are getting 150 rds or less a quarter and that includes qualification ammo. What your local Walmart has in ammo does not mean the CBP has ammo. "...the Border Patrol has been hit hard by the ammo shortage just like the rest of us." reads like there is an ammo shortage affecting all of us. There is not an ammo shortage. The people in charge refusing to procure ammunition for their officers to practice with is not a nationwide ammo shortage, it is neglect of training. Pretty much but if they're not buying ammo.....they are short on ammo. If it's not in the supply system, they can't get it. It's in the supply system, literally by the ton. Whether or not sufficient training allowance is ordered by the BP is another matter. On the maintenance issue, I get the impression that the BP does not have an O-level planned maintenance program established, or if they do, it is not properly trained and/or spot checked. That's a failure of leadership. Yeah I've seen the contract and invoices. There's certainly no shortage. Federal, Remington, and Winchester have been billing the government like crazy before I left the agency responsible for the contract. A lot of the larger stations were getting 500,000 rounds at a time while the more remote less manned stations were getting much lesser amounts obviously. And if there is a "shortage" you can blame the instructors and management for hording the ammo going out. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 7:50:22 AM EDT
[#47]
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Yeah I've seen the contract and invoices. There's certainly no shortage. Federal, Remington, and Winchester have been billing the government like crazy before I left the agency responsible for the contract. A lot of the larger stations were getting 500,000 rounds at a time while the more remote less manned stations were getting much lesser amounts obviously. And if there is a "shortage" you can blame the instructors and management for hording the ammo going out. I've talked to two station level instructors. They're not hoarding. I don't doubt that there's a failure at the leadership level. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 7:54:40 AM EDT
[#48]
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I've talked to two station level instructors. They're not hoarding. I don't doubt that there's a failure at the leadership level. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yeah I've seen the contract and invoices. There's certainly no shortage. Federal, Remington, and Winchester have been billing the government like crazy before I left the agency responsible for the contract. A lot of the larger stations were getting 500,000 rounds at a time while the more remote less manned stations were getting much lesser amounts obviously. And if there is a "shortage" you can blame the instructors and management for hording the ammo going out. I've talked to two station level instructors. They're not hoarding. I don't doubt that there's a failure at the leadership level. Well the ammo is being bought and shipped out to the stations and sector HQ's, so it's being stored or shot somewhere. We got so many invoices just for ammo that we used to have a single person solely dedicated to processing and paying them. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 7:56:12 AM EDT
[#49]
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Well the ammo is being bought and shipped out to the stations and sector HQ's, so it's being stored or shot somewhere. We got so many invoices just for ammo that we used to have a single person solely dedicated to processing and paying them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yeah I've seen the contract and invoices. There's certainly no shortage. Federal, Remington, and Winchester have been billing the government like crazy before I left the agency responsible for the contract. A lot of the larger stations were getting 500,000 rounds at a time while the more remote less manned stations were getting much lesser amounts obviously. And if there is a "shortage" you can blame the instructors and management for hording the ammo going out. I've talked to two station level instructors. They're not hoarding. I don't doubt that there's a failure at the leadership level. Well the ammo is being bought and shipped out to the stations and sector HQ's, so it's being stored or shot somewhere. We got so many invoices just for ammo that we used to have a single person solely dedicated to processing and paying them. Interesting. Thank you for sharing that. Ultimately, I hope everyone gets a nice new Colt 11.5"; that seems to make a lot more sense than issuing M4s and UMPs. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 8:01:52 AM EDT
[#50]
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Interesting. Thank you for sharing that. Ultimately, I hope everyone gets a nice new Colt 11.5"; that seems to make a lot more sense than issuing M4s and UMPs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yeah I've seen the contract and invoices. There's certainly no shortage. Federal, Remington, and Winchester have been billing the government like crazy before I left the agency responsible for the contract. A lot of the larger stations were getting 500,000 rounds at a time while the more remote less manned stations were getting much lesser amounts obviously. And if there is a "shortage" you can blame the instructors and management for hording the ammo going out. I've talked to two station level instructors. They're not hoarding. I don't doubt that there's a failure at the leadership level. Well the ammo is being bought and shipped out to the stations and sector HQ's, so it's being stored or shot somewhere. We got so many invoices just for ammo that we used to have a single person solely dedicated to processing and paying them. Interesting. Thank you for sharing that. Ultimately, I hope everyone gets a nice new Colt 11.5"; that seems to make a lot more sense than issuing M4s and UMPs. ICE was buying a whole bunch as I left and usually everyone in DHS piggy backed off our contracts so it'll probably happen since it'll just take a mod to the existing contract to add BP to the mix. But that makes sense....so who knows |
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