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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:59:06 PM EDT
[#1]
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Speeding is nowhere near as negligent as turning in front of a vehicle due to failure to yield or crossing into their lane. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe making negligence subject to increased punishment will make people less negligent. It seems to have worked for DUIs. Odd coming from someone defending the speeding motorcyclist in Israel?  Excessive speed on an unprotected conveyance is not negligent?  Speeding is nowhere near as negligent as turning in front of a vehicle due to failure to yield or crossing into their lane. So speeding on a motorcyle IS negligent. Glad we got that settled. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:00:03 PM EDT
[#2]
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So speeding on a motorcyle IS negligent. Glad we got that settled. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe making negligence subject to increased punishment will make people less negligent. It seems to have worked for DUIs. Odd coming from someone defending the speeding motorcyclist in Israel? Excessive speed on an unprotected conveyance is not negligent? Speeding is nowhere near as negligent as turning in front of a vehicle due to failure to yield or crossing into their lane. So speeding on a motorcyle IS negligent. Glad we got that settled. So you're saying there's a chance. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:00:53 PM EDT
[#3]
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This. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Kinda odd that he got any criminal charges over a regular traffic accident This. This some more |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:02:14 PM EDT
[#4]
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So speeding on a motorcyle IS negligent. Glad we got that settled. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe making negligence subject to increased punishment will make people less negligent. It seems to have worked for DUIs. Odd coming from someone defending the speeding motorcyclist in Israel? Excessive speed on an unprotected conveyance is not negligent? Speeding is nowhere near as negligent as turning in front of a vehicle due to failure to yield or crossing into their lane. So speeding on a motorcyle IS negligent. Glad we got that settled. Don't let your hatred toward those who ride motorcycles cloud your judgment. Speeding in an automobile is just as negligent. Failing to yield and turning in front of an oncoming vehicle is 10-fold more negligent than speeding, regardless of the vehicle. Plenty of people die in automobiles as well. Don't think you're magically protected and your actions are any less negligent than if you were on a motorcycle. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:02:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can give you a real life example of one way that it happens: I was leaving a convenience store parking lot, pulling into traffic. The area is urban, so LOTS of white lights as I looked to the left, but not the right, as it is the edge of town. It was dark. I looked left, looked right, left again, slowly started to go. When I looked left again (always paranoid about getting "t-boned") I had a little scooter coming to a panicked stop right outside my window. Even though I looked intently twice I failed to notice the little thing. The scooter was black and the driver was wearing dark clothes. His headlight was just another white light among many, and it appeared stationary due to the angle. Luckily he got stopped in time--with both feet on the ground. I lowered my window and apologized, but still don't really think I did anything "wrong"--even though I would have been cited for failure to yield had we collided. It happens. We both got lucky.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The left turn at the intersection in front of the biker is by far the most common motorcycle accident. It took my brother out and several others I know. Kinda sick of the moronic complacency and lack of situational awareness of fucking car drivers. I can give you a real life example of one way that it happens: I was leaving a convenience store parking lot, pulling into traffic. The area is urban, so LOTS of white lights as I looked to the left, but not the right, as it is the edge of town. It was dark. I looked left, looked right, left again, slowly started to go. When I looked left again (always paranoid about getting "t-boned") I had a little scooter coming to a panicked stop right outside my window. Even though I looked intently twice I failed to notice the little thing. The scooter was black and the driver was wearing dark clothes. His headlight was just another white light among many, and it appeared stationary due to the angle. Luckily he got stopped in time--with both feet on the ground. I lowered my window and apologized, but still don't really think I did anything "wrong"--even though I would have been cited for failure to yield had we collided. It happens. We both got lucky. I get that, even though I've been riding 28 years I still see bikes "come out of nowhere" when I'm driving my car. Personally I slow down whenever I go through any intersection, including green lights. I even wave my bars to make the light more visible. Too many close calls. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:02:49 PM EDT
[#6]
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Jail time over a traffic offense isn't normal at all I would think. Gonna guess that all the upset folks are bikers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Has to serve two days in jail on the anniversary of the passing of the victim? That is a strange sentence. Is something like that normal? I have heard of sentences that are served only on weekends, but nothing like that. Jail time over a traffic offense isn't normal at all I would think. Gonna guess that all the upset folks are bikers. I'm a biker and I'm not upset at all. Sometimes there are honest to goodness accidents. Just because the guy didn't yield doesn't mean he deliberately pulled out in front of the guy. He probably didn't see the motorcycle. It's a chance you take when you ride a bike. People can not see bikes as well as a car. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:03:29 PM EDT
[#7]
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Kinda odd that he got any criminal charges over a regular traffic accident This. Seems odd a true accident, with no alcohol or drugs involved resulted in a criminal sentence. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:04:17 PM EDT
[#8]
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Is hitting a baseball a violation in of itself? If it is, then yes. Failing to yield a vehicle is a violation whether it results in an accident or not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If it was an accident involving two cars it might not have been more than a fender bender, followed by a ticket for the old guy. Why does the same offense become so much more offensive when it involves a much more dangerous vehicle (motorcycle)? Almost everything is based on the consequences of the action, not the action itself, shouldn't this not be the same way? If I start a fire in a no burn area it is going to be a simple ticket. If I start a fire in a no burn area and it goes out of control into a wild fire... I am looking at a lot more than a ticket. Why is my punishment different, if my offense was the same? I believe consequences should be based on the results of our actions, but apparently it doesn't work that way in this case. I am sure the family of the 26 year old take comfort in knowing this man should have just received a ticket for failure to yield. So a baseball player hits a foul ball which hits some guy in the head, who later dies, you're saying he needs to be charged with manslaughter or whatever? There's more to the world than outcomes, accidents happen. Is hitting a baseball a violation in of itself? If it is, then yes. Failing to yield a vehicle is a violation whether it results in an accident or not. I thought it was all about the results of your actions, not the action itself? So you're admitting then that there is a difference between actions that have the same results? |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:04:30 PM EDT
[#9]
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Kill someone because of your negligence, should just get a traffic citation.  the people in this thread.There's a fine line between what you said and the guy just outright didn't see the motorcycle. People do not have to be dropped from a rope for every accident even if it results in a death. Circumstances matter. It sounds like people want some kind of mandatory sentence and usually in GD people hate that crap. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:06:22 PM EDT
[#10]
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I get that, even though I've been riding 28 years I still see bikes "come out of nowhere" when I'm driving my car. Personally I slow down whenever I go through any intersection, including green lights. I even wave my bars to make the light more visible. Too many close calls. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The left turn at the intersection in front of the biker is by far the most common motorcycle accident. It took my brother out and several others I know. Kinda sick of the moronic complacency and lack of situational awareness of fucking car drivers. I can give you a real life example of one way that it happens: I was leaving a convenience store parking lot, pulling into traffic. The area is urban, so LOTS of white lights as I looked to the left, but not the right, as it is the edge of town. It was dark. I looked left, looked right, left again, slowly started to go. When I looked left again (always paranoid about getting "t-boned") I had a little scooter coming to a panicked stop right outside my window. Even though I looked intently twice I failed to notice the little thing. The scooter was black and the driver was wearing dark clothes. His headlight was just another white light among many, and it appeared stationary due to the angle. Luckily he got stopped in time--with both feet on the ground. I lowered my window and apologized, but still don't really think I did anything "wrong"--even though I would have been cited for failure to yield had we collided. It happens. We both got lucky. I get that, even though I've been riding 28 years I still see bikes "come out of nowhere" when I'm driving my car. Personally I slow down whenever I go through any intersection, including green lights. I even wave my bars to make the light more visible. Too many close calls. Yeah. That's why I said what I did in my first post in this thread--motorcycles are simply dangerous to ride. Everyone has to decide if it's worth it, and do whatever they/you can to mitigate the risk, or at least minimize it. Too scary for me, but I'm a big chicken. 
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:07:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Besides, he's probably going to get hammered in a civil suit. What are you going to take from an 83 year old who is likely living on social security? Maybe some out of his insurance company, but likely not going to much of anything. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:07:50 PM EDT
[#12]
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I'm a biker and I'm not upset at all. Sometimes there are honest to goodness accidents. Just because the guy didn't yield doesn't mean he deliberately pulled out in front of the guy. He probably didn't see the motorcycle. It's a chance you take when you ride a bike. People can not see bikes as well as a car. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Has to serve two days in jail on the anniversary of the passing of the victim? That is a strange sentence. Is something like that normal? I have heard of sentences that are served only on weekends, but nothing like that. Jail time over a traffic offense isn't normal at all I would think. Gonna guess that all the upset folks are bikers. I'm a biker and I'm not upset at all. Sometimes there are honest to goodness accidents. Just because the guy didn't yield doesn't mean he deliberately pulled out in front of the guy. He probably didn't see the motorcycle. It's a chance you take when you ride a bike. People can not see bikes as well as a car. That is NO excuse. As a licensed driver it is fully your responsibility to look out for all forms of traffic on the road. People don't see motorcycles because they don't look hard enough. They aren't devoting the due amount of attention required to operate a motor vehicle safely. You KNOW motorcycles are out there on the road, so fucking look out for them. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:08:01 PM EDT
[#13]
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If you negligently shoot someone, charges are entirely possible. I don't see why negligently causing a death with a car should be different. I like you but that is way off, more so than apples and oranges. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:09:31 PM EDT
[#14]
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The left turn at the intersection in front of the biker is by far the most common motorcycle accident. It took my brother out and several others I know. Kinda sick of the moronic complacency and lack of situational awareness of fucking car drivers. Like the retards splitting lanes at >60mph that get taken out? Weaving in and out of bumper to bumper traffic and acting shocked when they get smashed? lol |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:09:42 PM EDT
[#15]
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Is hitting a baseball a violation in of itself? If it is, then yes. Failing to yield a vehicle is a violation whether it results in an accident or not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If it was an accident involving two cars it might not have been more than a fender bender, followed by a ticket for the old guy. Why does the same offense become so much more offensive when it involves a much more dangerous vehicle (motorcycle)? Almost everything is based on the consequences of the action, not the action itself, shouldn't this not be the same way? If I start a fire in a no burn area it is going to be a simple ticket. If I start a fire in a no burn area and it goes out of control into a wild fire... I am looking at a lot more than a ticket. Why is my punishment different, if my offense was the same? I believe consequences should be based on the results of our actions, but apparently it doesn't work that way in this case. I am sure the family of the 26 year old take comfort in knowing this man should have just received a ticket for failure to yield. So a baseball player hits a foul ball which hits some guy in the head, who later dies, you're saying he needs to be charged with manslaughter or whatever? There's more to the world than outcomes, accidents happen. Is hitting a baseball a violation in of itself? If it is, then yes. Failing to yield a vehicle is a violation whether it results in an accident or not. Well hitting the ball no, a foul ball yes, not to mention you aren't supposed to be hitting it into the crowd, then beaming someone with it and killing them. See? |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:09:44 PM EDT
[#16]
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That is NO excuse. As a licensed driver it is fully your responsibility to look out for all forms of traffic on the road. People don't see motorcycles because they don't look hard enough. They aren't devoting the due amount of attention required to operate a motor vehicle safely. You KNOW motorcycles are out there on the road, so fucking look out for them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Has to serve two days in jail on the anniversary of the passing of the victim? That is a strange sentence. Is something like that normal? I have heard of sentences that are served only on weekends, but nothing like that. Jail time over a traffic offense isn't normal at all I would think. Gonna guess that all the upset folks are bikers. I'm a biker and I'm not upset at all. Sometimes there are honest to goodness accidents. Just because the guy didn't yield doesn't mean he deliberately pulled out in front of the guy. He probably didn't see the motorcycle. It's a chance you take when you ride a bike. People can not see bikes as well as a car. That is NO excuse. As a licensed driver it is fully your responsibility to look out for all forms of traffic on the road. People don't see motorcycles because they don't look hard enough. They aren't devoting the due amount of attention required to operate a motor vehicle safely. You KNOW motorcycles are out there on the road, so fucking look out for them. Lets ban blind spots...its for the children |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:11:18 PM EDT
[#17]
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That is NO excuse. As a licensed driver it is fully your responsibility to look out for all forms of traffic on the road. People don't see motorcycles because they don't look hard enough. They aren't devoting the due amount of attention required to operate a motor vehicle safely. You KNOW motorcycles are out there on the road, so fucking look out for them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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. That is NO excuse. As a licensed driver it is fully your responsibility to look out for all forms of traffic on the road. People don't see motorcycles because they don't look hard enough. They aren't devoting the due amount of attention required to operate a motor vehicle safely. You KNOW motorcycles are out there on the road, so fucking look out for them. Until it happens to you, then it will be "different" because of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX exigent circumstances that weren't your fault. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:11:37 PM EDT
[#18]
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Like the retards splitting lanes at >60mph that get taken out? Weaving in and out of bumper to bumper traffic and acting shocked when they get smashed? lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The left turn at the intersection in front of the biker is by far the most common motorcycle accident. It took my brother out and several others I know. Kinda sick of the moronic complacency and lack of situational awareness of fucking car drivers. Like the retards splitting lanes at >60mph that get taken out? Weaving in and out of bumper to bumper traffic and acting shocked when they get smashed? lol In case you missed it, he's talking about the motorcyclist that is doing the speed limit, obeying all traffic laws, and some inattentive driver turning in front of them, failing to yield. This happens everyday. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:11:57 PM EDT
[#19]
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like dui where there is a death? The guy is a murderer, his negligence killed someone. This is not a civil matter this is criminal, hope the guy dies painfully Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Kinda odd that he got any criminal charges over a regular traffic accident Is this sort of thing normally not charged? No, it's not, minus any aggravating factors. It's a death resulting from a traffic accident and the driver certainly faces civil liability but not criminal. like dui where there is a death? The guy is a murderer, his negligence killed someone. This is not a civil matter this is criminal, hope the guy dies painfully 
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:12:47 PM EDT
[#20]
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Lets ban blind spots...its for the children Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Has to serve two days in jail on the anniversary of the passing of the victim? That is a strange sentence. Is something like that normal? I have heard of sentences that are served only on weekends, but nothing like that. Jail time over a traffic offense isn't normal at all I would think. Gonna guess that all the upset folks are bikers. I'm a biker and I'm not upset at all. Sometimes there are honest to goodness accidents. Just because the guy didn't yield doesn't mean he deliberately pulled out in front of the guy. He probably didn't see the motorcycle. It's a chance you take when you ride a bike. People can not see bikes as well as a car. That is NO excuse. As a licensed driver it is fully your responsibility to look out for all forms of traffic on the road. People don't see motorcycles because they don't look hard enough. They aren't devoting the due amount of attention required to operate a motor vehicle safely. You KNOW motorcycles are out there on the road, so fucking look out for them. Lets ban blind spots...its for the children As a motor vehicle operator, it is your responsibility to reduce blind spots and check them as well... |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:14:15 PM EDT
[#21]
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Unless the old timer is a person of means, this. Not sure where people think bazillion dollar payouts come from. If the person has a load of money that is one thing, otherwise you will get whatever coverage they have been paying for with their insurance company. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Besides, he's probably going to get hammered in a civil suit. Probably not. His auto insurance carrier will respond, settle for policy limits, and that will be it. Unless the old timer is a person of means, this. Not sure where people think bazillion dollar payouts come from. If the person has a load of money that is one thing, otherwise you will get whatever coverage they have been paying for with their insurance company. Maybe. Of course, I live in one of the most sue happy areas in the whole union so I'm speaking from what I have read about locally. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:14:17 PM EDT
[#22]
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Until it happens to you, then it will be "different" because of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX exigent circumstances that weren't your fault. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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. That is NO excuse. As a licensed driver it is fully your responsibility to look out for all forms of traffic on the road. People don't see motorcycles because they don't look hard enough. They aren't devoting the due amount of attention required to operate a motor vehicle safely. You KNOW motorcycles are out there on the road, so fucking look out for them. Until it happens to you, then it will be "different" because of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX exigent circumstances that weren't your fault. If I'm on a registered / insured motorcycle, with a motorcycle license, I have every right to be on the road and it is your responsibility to look out for me, just like it is my responsibility to look out for you. Fail to yield and turn in front of me, causing a collision, and it is 100% your fault. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:15:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Kinda odd that he got any criminal charges over a regular traffic accident This. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:16:00 PM EDT
[#24]
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Not where I'm from unless drugs or alcohol were involved. That's why they are called "accidents". Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Kinda odd that he got any criminal charges over a regular traffic accident Is this sort of thing normally not charged? Not where I'm from unless drugs or alcohol were involved. That's why they are called "accidents". Accidents are an occurrence through no one fault. The vast majority of traffic incidents are crashes because one or more persons involved did something wrong to cause it so therefore, it isn't an "accident" I wish people would stop calling them accidents and call them properly as crashes. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:17:24 PM EDT
[#25]
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As a motor vehicle operator, it is your responsibility to reduce blind spots and check them as well... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That is NO excuse. As a licensed driver it is fully your responsibility to look out for all forms of traffic on the road. People don't see motorcycles because they don't look hard enough. They aren't devoting the due amount of attention required to operate a motor vehicle safely. You KNOW motorcycles are out there on the road, so fucking look out for them. Lets ban blind spots...its for the children As a motor vehicle operator, it is your responsibility to reduce blind spots and check them as well... Shit happens. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:18:02 PM EDT
[#26]
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If I'm on a registered / insured motorcycle, with a motorcycle license, I have every right to be on the road and it is your responsibility to look out for me, just like it is my responsibility to look out for you. Fail to yield and turn in front of me, causing a collision, and it is 100% your fault. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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. That is NO excuse. As a licensed driver it is fully your responsibility to look out for all forms of traffic on the road. People don't see motorcycles because they don't look hard enough. They aren't devoting the due amount of attention required to operate a motor vehicle safely. You KNOW motorcycles are out there on the road, so fucking look out for them. Until it happens to you, then it will be "different" because of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX exigent circumstances that weren't your fault. If I'm on a registered / insured motorcycle, with a motorcycle license, I have every right to be on the road and it is your responsibility to look out for me, just like it is my responsibility to look out for you. Fail to yield and turn in front of me, causing a collision, and it is 100% your fault. No disagreement. But when an accident happens, it is a civil matter, and not criminal (save things like DUI). Of course, you can end up "dead right." And still dead. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:18:38 PM EDT
[#27]
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If I'm on a registered / insured motorcycle, with a motorcycle license, I have every right to be on the road and it is your responsibility to look out for me, just like it is my responsibility to look out for you. Fail to yield and turn in front of me, causing a collision, and it is 100% your fault. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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. That is NO excuse. As a licensed driver it is fully your responsibility to look out for all forms of traffic on the road. People don't see motorcycles because they don't look hard enough. They aren't devoting the due amount of attention required to operate a motor vehicle safely. You KNOW motorcycles are out there on the road, so fucking look out for them. Until it happens to you, then it will be "different" because of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX exigent circumstances that weren't your fault. If I'm on a registered / insured motorcycle, with a motorcycle license, I have every right to be on the road and it is your responsibility to look out for me, just like it is my responsibility to look out for you. Fail to yield and turn in front of me, causing a collision, and it is 100% your fault. I don't think anyone disputes that. But you are no more "special" or entitled than I. We all have equal responsibility to look for other motorists car or bike. It is no more tragic just because it was a guy on a bike over 2 cars colliding and someone getting killed. I think this is the point of contention here. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:20:06 PM EDT
[#28]
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Shit happens. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That is NO excuse. As a licensed driver it is fully your responsibility to look out for all forms of traffic on the road. People don't see motorcycles because they don't look hard enough. They aren't devoting the due amount of attention required to operate a motor vehicle safely. You KNOW motorcycles are out there on the road, so fucking look out for them. Lets ban blind spots...its for the children As a motor vehicle operator, it is your responsibility to reduce blind spots and check them as well... Shit happens. It sure does, and dead bodies are extracted out of cars and trucks everyday because of it. It's not just a car vs. motorcycle thing. It's car vs. car just as much. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:20:58 PM EDT
[#29]
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I don't think anyone disputes that. But you are no more "special" or entitled than I. We all have equal responsibility to look for other motorists car or bike. It is no more tragic just because it was a guy on a bike over 2 cars colliding and someone getting killed. I think this is the point of contention here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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. That is NO excuse. As a licensed driver it is fully your responsibility to look out for all forms of traffic on the road. People don't see motorcycles because they don't look hard enough. They aren't devoting the due amount of attention required to operate a motor vehicle safely. You KNOW motorcycles are out there on the road, so fucking look out for them. Until it happens to you, then it will be "different" because of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX exigent circumstances that weren't your fault. If I'm on a registered / insured motorcycle, with a motorcycle license, I have every right to be on the road and it is your responsibility to look out for me, just like it is my responsibility to look out for you. Fail to yield and turn in front of me, causing a collision, and it is 100% your fault. I don't think anyone disputes that. But you are no more "special" or entitled than I. We all have equal responsibility to look for other motorists car or bike. It is no more tragic just because it was a guy on a bike over 2 cars colliding and someone getting killed. I think this is the point of contention here. If somebody in a car dies, the driver who caused the accident should be held criminally liable for that death as well. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:22:38 PM EDT
[#30]
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It sure does, and dead bodies are extracted out of cars and trucks everyday because of it. It's not just a car vs. motorcycle thing. It's car vs. car just as much. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That is NO excuse. As a licensed driver it is fully your responsibility to look out for all forms of traffic on the road. People don't see motorcycles because they don't look hard enough. They aren't devoting the due amount of attention required to operate a motor vehicle safely. You KNOW motorcycles are out there on the road, so fucking look out for them. Lets ban blind spots...its for the children As a motor vehicle operator, it is your responsibility to reduce blind spots and check them as well... Shit happens. It sure does, and dead bodies are extracted out of cars and trucks everyday because of it. It's not just a car vs. motorcycle thing. It's car vs. car just as much. I agree. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:23:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shit happens. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: As a motor vehicle operator, it is your responsibility to reduce blind spots and check them as well... Shit happens. A concept all of arfcom understands when it comes to negligent discharges, but doesn't seem to comprehend in other situations.
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:23:33 PM EDT
[#32]
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If I'm on a registered / insured motorcycle, with a motorcycle license, I have every right to be on the road and it is your responsibility to look out for me, just like it is my responsibility to look out for you. Fail to yield and turn in front of me, causing a collision, and it is 100% your fault. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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. That is NO excuse. As a licensed driver it is fully your responsibility to look out for all forms of traffic on the road. People don't see motorcycles because they don't look hard enough. They aren't devoting the due amount of attention required to operate a motor vehicle safely. You KNOW motorcycles are out there on the road, so fucking look out for them. Until it happens to you, then it will be "different" because of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX exigent circumstances that weren't your fault. If I'm on a registered / insured motorcycle, with a motorcycle license, I have every right to be on the road and it is your responsibility to look out for me, just like it is my responsibility to look out for you. Fail to yield and turn in front of me, causing a collision, and it is 100% your fault. You can be right and still be dead. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:24:58 PM EDT
[#33]
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Through the direct actions people take. Shit never just miraculously happens by itself. A concept all of arfcom understands when it comes to negligent discharges, but doesn't seem to comprehend in other situations. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As a motor vehicle operator, it is your responsibility to reduce blind spots and check them as well... Shit happens. A concept all of arfcom understands when it comes to negligent discharges, but doesn't seem to comprehend in other situations. How many negligent discharges wind up as criminal charges or felonies? |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:25:14 PM EDT
[#34]
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You can be right and still be dead. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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. That is NO excuse. As a licensed driver it is fully your responsibility to look out for all forms of traffic on the road. People don't see motorcycles because they don't look hard enough. They aren't devoting the due amount of attention required to operate a motor vehicle safely. You KNOW motorcycles are out there on the road, so fucking look out for them. Until it happens to you, then it will be "different" because of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX exigent circumstances that weren't your fault. If I'm on a registered / insured motorcycle, with a motorcycle license, I have every right to be on the road and it is your responsibility to look out for me, just like it is my responsibility to look out for you. Fail to yield and turn in front of me, causing a collision, and it is 100% your fault. You can be right and still be dead. And the person who was wrong should be held liable for that death. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:25:25 PM EDT
[#35]
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If somebody in a car dies, the driver who caused the accident should be held criminally liable for that death as well. Agreed, if it was a criminal act that caused the death. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:26:30 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many negligent discharges wind up as criminal charges or felonies? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: As a motor vehicle operator, it is your responsibility to reduce blind spots and check them as well... Shit happens. A concept all of arfcom understands when it comes to negligent discharges, but doesn't seem to comprehend in other situations. How many negligent discharges wind up as criminal charges or felonies? Happens all the time. Especially when fatalities/injuries are involved.
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:28:23 PM EDT
[#37]
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Agreed, if it was a criminal act that caused the death. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If somebody in a car dies, the driver who caused the accident should be held criminally liable for that death as well. Agreed, if it was a criminal act that caused the death. Gross negligence should not be viewed as a criminal act? Failing to yield because you're not fulfilling your obligations as a driver is just as negligent as getting behind the wheel while hammered on booze. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:31:11 PM EDT
[#38]
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Happens all the time. Especially when fatalities/injuries are involved. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As a motor vehicle operator, it is your responsibility to reduce blind spots and check them as well... Shit happens. A concept all of arfcom understands when it comes to negligent discharges, but doesn't seem to comprehend in other situations. How many negligent discharges wind up as criminal charges or felonies? Happens all the time. Especially when fatalities/injuries are involved. But not on all occasions. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:32:53 PM EDT
[#39]
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Key word here is ACCIDENT. I'm sure the man will punish himself mentally more than a court ever could. I know I would. In my state, it's refered as a traffic CRASH not accident. An accident implies a no fault whoopsie act of God. I remember when the crash report titles were changed years and years ago. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:36:14 PM EDT
[#40]
They could at least take the old guy's license.
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:36:59 PM EDT
[#41]
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Gross negligence should not be viewed as a criminal act? Failing to yield because you're not fulfilling your obligations as a driver is just as negligent as getting behind the wheel while hammered on booze. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If somebody in a car dies, the driver who caused the accident should be held criminally liable for that death as well. Agreed, if it was a criminal act that caused the death. Gross negligence should not be viewed as a criminal act? Failing to yield because you're not fulfilling your obligations as a driver is just as negligent as getting behind the wheel while hammered on booze. A 83 year old guy who did not see the motorcyclist does not rise to criminal behavior. I am not getting into a war of "legal" definitions. The guy was wrong and should be held responsible civilly but it was not a criminal act. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:42:56 PM EDT
[#42]
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I'll use the firearm analogy here, too. It was a negligent accident (assuming the bike was doing the speed limit). Why would one negligence (improper operation of a car) be OK and another negligence (shooting of another person, unintentionally) be a crime under some circumstances? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Key word here is ACCIDENT. I'm sure the man will punish himself mentally more than a court ever could. I know I would. I'll use the firearm analogy here, too. It was a negligent accident (assuming the bike was doing the speed limit). Why would one negligence (improper operation of a car) be OK and another negligence (shooting of another person, unintentionally) be a crime under some circumstances? Is the negligent shooting taking place at a gun range? Or is the negligent car accident taking place in the middle of a soccer field? |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:46:19 PM EDT
[#43]
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Almost everything is based on the consequences of the action, not the action itself, shouldn't this not be the same way? If I start a fire in a no burn area it is going to be a simple ticket. If I start a fire in a no burn area and it goes out of control into a wild fire... I am looking at a lot more than a ticket. Why is my punishment different, if my offense was the same? I believe consequences should be based on the results of our actions, but apparently it doesn't work that way in this case. I am sure the family of the 26 year old take comfort in knowing this man should have just received a ticket for failure to yield. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If it was an accident involving two cars it might not have been more than a fender bender, followed by a ticket for the old guy. Why does the same offense become so much more offensive when it involves a much more dangerous vehicle (motorcycle)? Almost everything is based on the consequences of the action, not the action itself, shouldn't this not be the same way? If I start a fire in a no burn area it is going to be a simple ticket. If I start a fire in a no burn area and it goes out of control into a wild fire... I am looking at a lot more than a ticket. Why is my punishment different, if my offense was the same? I believe consequences should be based on the results of our actions, but apparently it doesn't work that way in this case. I am sure the family of the 26 year old take comfort in knowing this man should have just received a ticket for failure to yield. Apples to Oranges Start a fire in a no burn area and something bad happens, you have issues. Drive a car in a no drive area and something bad happens, you have issues. Start a fire in a fire pit and something bad happens, accident. Drive a can on a road and something bad happens, accident. Ruling out intentional things and being under the influence, of course. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:50:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I'm on a registered / insured motorcycle, with a motorcycle license, I have every right to be on the road and it is your responsibility to look out for me, just like it is my responsibility to look out for you. Fail to yield and turn in front of me, causing a collision, and it is 100% your fault. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: . That is NO excuse. As a licensed driver it is fully your responsibility to look out for all forms of traffic on the road. People don't see motorcycles because they don't look hard enough. They aren't devoting the due amount of attention required to operate a motor vehicle safely. You KNOW motorcycles are out there on the road, so fucking look out for them. Until it happens to you, then it will be "different" because of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX exigent circumstances that weren't your fault. If I'm on a registered / insured motorcycle, with a motorcycle license, I have every right to be on the road and it is your responsibility to look out for me, just like it is my responsibility to look out for you. Fail to yield and turn in front of me, causing a collision, and it is 100% your fault. Um, no. It depends entirely on the circumstances. And the degree of responsibility in an accident is usually hashed out in a civil trial if it goes that far. If the motorcyclist was speeding, or riding recklessly, or on drugs or alcohol, those factors will all be considered when it comes time to assign responsibility. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:51:29 PM EDT
[#45]
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Bullshit. People speed, even excessively, everyday without collision. But every time somebody fails to yield and turns in front of an oncoming vehicle, a collision, or near collision occurs. And when you're speeding, you're paying attention to the road. When somebody fails to yield to oncoming traffic, it's because they were not paying attention to the road. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe making negligence subject to increased punishment will make people less negligent. It seems to have worked for DUIs. Odd coming from someone defending the speeding motorcyclist in Israel? Excessive speed on an unprotected conveyance is not negligent? Speeding is nowhere near as negligent as turning in front of a vehicle due to failure to yield or crossing into their lane. Yes, it most certainly is. Bullshit. People speed, even excessively, everyday without collision. But every time somebody fails to yield and turns in front of an oncoming vehicle, a collision, or near collision occurs. And when you're speeding, you're paying attention to the road. When somebody fails to yield to oncoming traffic, it's because they were not paying attention to the road. People speed without collisions like people *turn left* without collisions. Sometimes they fuck up. Triple tap. Whole lot of derp in here. Not to say the guys in the clear, just that all these comparisons suck. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:51:59 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The left turn at the intersection in front of the biker is by far the most common motorcycle accident. It took my brother out and several others I know. Kinda sick of the moronic complacency and lack of situational awareness of fucking car drivers. Luckily I was also a car driver. Now my biggest concern is trying to find a damn fender for a 25 year old car from a wrecking yard. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:54:20 PM EDT
[#47]
Motorcyclists don't like it, but they are hard for the average motorist to see. And by "see" I guess I mean consciously notice. I suppose we're looking mainly for big, moving rectangles.
It's not just the 83y.o. drivers you needa watch out for. If you want to roll on 2 tires and be noticed, ride a bicycle. You will get more attention (and frequently hostile) than you ever thought possible. People don't see motorcyclists, but not only see but want to kill bicyclists. 2 wheels are not recommended for hot house flowers. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:57:59 PM EDT
[#48]
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Kinda odd that he got any criminal charges over a regular traffic accident my guess is not a regular traffic accident. My guess is blind as a bat and oblivious as hell oldster with previous infractions that should not have been driving turned right in front of a biker and killed him. I'm sick of almost getting hit both in cars and on my bike by these ancient drivers that literally have no idea what's going on around them. DMV needs a test for old drivers where once a year you have to get a stamp on your license, as you walk in the door someone tosses you a tennis ball, if you fail to react to that ball at all, just turn right the hell around, get on the bus and go home, your driving days are over. I know it's hard to surrender the ability to drive, but these very old, near sighted, slow thinking old people are terrors on the road. I've had several near misses with people who literally didn't realize they almost hit or killed someone. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:59:19 PM EDT
[#49]
Maybe the judge thought 83 y/o guy would simply cost too much in medical care, on the state's dime?
The hassle and cost of a trial, seem to not warrant a 2 day sentence and 100 hours of community service. You could have easily got that in a plea bargain, so a huge waste of money there. kind of negates my first thought. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 3:59:35 PM EDT
[#50]
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my guess is not a regular traffic accident. My guess is blind as a bat and oblivious as hell oldster with previous infractions that should not have been driving turned right in front of a biker and killed him. I'm sick of almost getting hit both in cars and on my bike by these ancient drivers that literally have no idea what's going on around them. DMV needs a test for old drivers where once a year you have to get a stamp on your license, as you walk in the door someone tosses you a tennis ball, if you fail to react to that ball at all, just turn right the hell around, get on the bus and go home, your driving days are over. I know it's hard to surrender the ability to drive, but these very old, near sighted, slow thinking old people are terrors on the road. I've had several near misses with people who literally didn't realize they almost hit or killed someone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Kinda odd that he got any criminal charges over a regular traffic accident my guess is not a regular traffic accident. My guess is blind as a bat and oblivious as hell oldster with previous infractions that should not have been driving turned right in front of a biker and killed him. I'm sick of almost getting hit both in cars and on my bike by these ancient drivers that literally have no idea what's going on around them. DMV needs a test for old drivers where once a year you have to get a stamp on your license, as you walk in the door someone tosses you a tennis ball, if you fail to react to that ball at all, just turn right the hell around, get on the bus and go home, your driving days are over. I know it's hard to surrender the ability to drive, but these very old, near sighted, slow thinking old people are terrors on the road. I've had several near misses with people who literally didn't realize they almost hit or killed someone. There are young people who are exactly the same. |
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