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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:48:42 PM EDT
[#1]
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Kill someone because of your negligence, should just get a traffic citation.  the people in this thread.What do you want? Jail the old man for an accident? You must be an overemotional motorcyclist. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:48:45 PM EDT
[#2]
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Is hitting a baseball a violation in of itself? If it is, then yes. Failing to yield a vehicle is a violation whether it results in an accident or not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If it was an accident involving two cars it might not have been more than a fender bender, followed by a ticket for the old guy. Why does the same offense become so much more offensive when it involves a much more dangerous vehicle (motorcycle)? Almost everything is based on the consequences of the action, not the action itself, shouldn't this not be the same way? If I start a fire in a no burn area it is going to be a simple ticket. If I start a fire in a no burn area and it goes out of control into a wild fire... I am looking at a lot more than a ticket. Why is my punishment different, if my offense was the same? I believe consequences should be based on the results of our actions, but apparently it doesn't work that way in this case. I am sure the family of the 26 year old take comfort in knowing this man should have just received a ticket for failure to yield. So a baseball player hits a foul ball which hits some guy in the head, who later dies, you're saying he needs to be charged with manslaughter or whatever? There's more to the world than outcomes, accidents happen. Is hitting a baseball a violation in of itself? If it is, then yes. Failing to yield a vehicle is a violation whether it results in an accident or not. It's not a criminal violation. Why is this so difficult for some of you to understand? Is it "Stupid Friday" and no one told me?
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:51:44 PM EDT
[#3]
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They both had greens. The elderly mans was an unprotected green for turning, IE yield to oncoming traffic, he didn't. No report on speeds. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The light was green? Why did the motorcyclist hit him? What were their respective speeds? They both had greens. The elderly mans was an unprotected green for turning, IE yield to oncoming traffic, he didn't. No report on speeds. With a head on or a T-bone on a bike it doesn't have to be fast to be fatal. Cars don't give much. RIP. 
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:51:56 PM EDT
[#4]
I'm surprised he was charged criminally.
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:52:04 PM EDT
[#5]
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Almost everything is based on the consequences of the action, not the action itself, shouldn't this not be the same way? If I start a fire in a no burn area it is going to be a simple ticket. If I start a fire in a no burn area and it goes out of control into a wild fire... I am looking at a lot more than a ticket. Why is my punishment different, if my offense was the same? I believe consequences should be based on the results of our actions, but apparently it doesn't work that way in this case. I am sure the family of the 26 year old take comfort in knowing this man should have just received a ticket for failure to yield. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If it was an accident involving two cars it might not have been more than a fender bender, followed by a ticket for the old guy. Why does the same offense become so much more offensive when it involves a much more dangerous vehicle (motorcycle)? Almost everything is based on the consequences of the action, not the action itself, shouldn't this not be the same way? If I start a fire in a no burn area it is going to be a simple ticket. If I start a fire in a no burn area and it goes out of control into a wild fire... I am looking at a lot more than a ticket. Why is my punishment different, if my offense was the same? I believe consequences should be based on the results of our actions, but apparently it doesn't work that way in this case. I am sure the family of the 26 year old take comfort in knowing this man should have just received a ticket for failure to yield. He did receive an elevated sentence. He would not have to serve 2 days in jail and 100 hours of community service if his failure to yield had not resulted in a fatality. It was an accident. Or are you suggesting that he intentionally harmed the motorcyclist? Did you start your fire on accident? Say a spark from the exhaust of a piece of power equipment or a hot catalytic convertor? Or deliberately strike a match? I think you are trying too hard to make this fit your obvious agenda. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:52:59 PM EDT
[#6]
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As a rider, It isnt even shocking anymore. All someone has to do, specially if they are old, is use the "i didnt even see them" and/or "they were going so fast" and at worse they get a citation for failure to yield. Does that make someone a special snowflake ? I am serious. I used to ride and sold my bike long ago. Bikes are dangerous and what may otherwise be a fender bender normally, can easily be fatal on a bike. People CHOOSE to ride things like bikes that are more dangerous then say a Lincoln. I am no more responsible to look for you then you are responsible to look out for me. It was an accident. He is 83 and 83 year old folks don't see as well or have the same reaction times as younger folks. I bet at 83 he drives much better then some of the young kids I see on bikes. I am sure he feels horrible as anyone would in a tragic traffic accident that caused a fatality whether driving a bike or a van. It was not criminal, he is responsible civilly though. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:54:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Would blowing a stop sign be different.
Just the other day, I came to a 4 way stop. Before I proceeded, a car came from my left at about 50mph and blew the sign. Not even a tap of the brakes. He would surely have killed me, had I not been paying attention (I always look both ways before going at any traffic device). Would he have been criminal? It's just a failure to yield. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:59:30 PM EDT
[#8]
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Would blowing a stop sign be different. Just the other day, I came to a 4 way stop. Before I proceeded, a car came from my left at about 50mph and blew the sign. Not even a tap of the brakes. He would surely have killed me, had I not been paying attention (I always look both ways before going at any traffic device). Would he have been criminal? It's just a failure to yield. Read the thread and try to apply a little critical thinking to your question. 
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:59:45 PM EDT
[#9]
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Would blowing a stop sign be different. Just the other day, I came to a 4 way stop. Before I proceeded, a car came from my left at about 50mph and blew the sign. Not even a tap of the brakes. He would surely have killed me, had I not been paying attention (I always look both ways before going at any traffic device). Would he have been criminal? It's just a failure to yield. Was he just being a reckless driver and saw the sign and just blew through it ? Or was he a 83 year old who made a mistake and didn't see it ? Was he driving recklessly and speeding ? These things would influence my decision. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:05:07 PM EDT
[#10]
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Maybe making negligence subject to increased punishment will make people less negligent. It seems to have worked for DUIs. Odd coming from someone defending the speeding motorcyclist in Israel?  Excessive speed on an unprotected conveyance is not negligent? 
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:05:08 PM EDT
[#11]
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No, it's not, minus any aggravating factors. It's a death resulting from a traffic accident and the driver certainly faces civil liability but not criminal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Kinda odd that he got any criminal charges over a regular traffic accident Is this sort of thing normally not charged? No, it's not, minus any aggravating factors. It's a death resulting from a traffic accident and the driver certainly faces civil liability but not criminal. like dui where there is a death? The guy is a murderer, his negligence killed someone. This is not a civil matter this is criminal, hope the guy dies painfully |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:07:58 PM EDT
[#12]
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like dui where there is a death? The guy is a murderer, his negligence killed someone. This is not a civil matter this is criminal, hope the guy dies painfully Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Kinda odd that he got any criminal charges over a regular traffic accident Is this sort of thing normally not charged? No, it's not, minus any aggravating factors. It's a death resulting from a traffic accident and the driver certainly faces civil liability but not criminal. like dui where there is a death? The guy is a murderer, his negligence killed someone. This is not a civil matter this is criminal, hope the guy dies painfully Do you hate Laura Bush, too? |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:08:03 PM EDT
[#13]
lol GD hates motorcyclist
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:09:46 PM EDT
[#14]
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Read the thread and try to apply a little critical thinking to your question. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Would blowing a stop sign be different. Just the other day, I came to a 4 way stop. Before I proceeded, a car came from my left at about 50mph and blew the sign. Not even a tap of the brakes. He would surely have killed me, had I not been paying attention (I always look both ways before going at any traffic device). Would he have been criminal? It's just a failure to yield. Read the thread and try to apply a little critical thinking to your question. I'm trying. 
I don't see a difference in the negligence of shooting at what you think is a deer in a bush and turning into what you think is a clear lane. We have charges like manslaughter for unintentionally causing a death. I'm honestly not getting why someone gets let off because they accidentally used a car to kill someone vs accidentally using a rifle. I do tend to hold people very accountable for their actions regardless of their intention. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:10:36 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:11:35 PM EDT
[#16]
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People die in traffic accidents everyday. People cause traffic accidents that end people's lives everyday. Plenty of people don't get charged. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Kill someone because of your negligence, should just get a traffic citation. the people in this thread.People die in traffic accidents everyday. People cause traffic accidents that end people's lives everyday. Plenty of people don't get charged. and yet arfcom hates the idea of self driving cars. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:15:17 PM EDT
[#17]
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like dui where there is a death? The guy is a murderer, his negligence killed someone. This is not a civil matter this is criminal, hope the guy dies painfully Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Kinda odd that he got any criminal charges over a regular traffic accident Is this sort of thing normally not charged? No, it's not, minus any aggravating factors. It's a death resulting from a traffic accident and the driver certainly faces civil liability but not criminal. like dui where there is a death? The guy is a murderer, his negligence killed someone. This is not a civil matter this is criminal, hope the guy dies painfully Oh Deer Lord. It is stupid Friday. 
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:18:44 PM EDT
[#18]
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I don't see a difference in the negligence of shooting at what you think is a deer in a bush and turning into what you think is a clear lane. One is blatantly reckless and the other likely an honest oversight. Deliberate negligence vs a simple mistake. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:26:14 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Kinda odd that he got any criminal charges over a regular traffic accident I suppose it could be like in Virginia...Reckless Driving (drive to endanger life, limb or property) is a Class 1 misdemeanor, you could theoretically go to jail for up to a year. I had an uncle killed by an old guy who tried to (unsuccessfully) pass him on a double yellow line. Old guy was charged with reckless, was found guilty and was given a suspended sentence, small fine, and lost his license for a period of time. The standard for more serious charges in relation to traffic crash deaths in Virginia is set pretty high. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:26:57 PM EDT
[#20]
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No, it's not, minus any aggravating factors. It's a death resulting from a traffic accident and the driver certainly faces civil liability but not criminal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Kinda odd that he got any criminal charges over a regular traffic accident Is this sort of thing normally not charged? No, it's not, minus any aggravating factors. It's a death resulting from a traffic accident and the driver certainly faces civil liability but not criminal. In this case he plead guilty to a misdemeanor motor vehicle homicide charge. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:29:46 PM EDT
[#21]
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Kinda odd that he got any criminal charges over a regular traffic accident Exactly. Very unusual. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:31:14 PM EDT
[#22]
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Do you hate Laura Bush, too? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Kinda odd that he got any criminal charges over a regular traffic accident Is this sort of thing normally not charged? No, it's not, minus any aggravating factors. It's a death resulting from a traffic accident and the driver certainly faces civil liability but not criminal. like dui where there is a death? The guy is a murderer, his negligence killed someone. This is not a civil matter this is criminal, hope the guy dies painfully Do you hate Laura Bush, too? anyone that gets away with murder due to their negligence deserves to die |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:32:21 PM EDT
[#23]
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Oh Deer Lord. It is stupid Friday. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Kinda odd that he got any criminal charges over a regular traffic accident Is this sort of thing normally not charged? No, it's not, minus any aggravating factors. It's a death resulting from a traffic accident and the driver certainly faces civil liability but not criminal. like dui where there is a death? The guy is a murderer, his negligence killed someone. This is not a civil matter this is criminal, hope the guy dies painfully Oh Deer Lord. It is stupid Friday. I'm sure you'd be laughing if it was your family member, killed by someone else's negligence |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:33:29 PM EDT
[#24]
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I'm trying.
I don't see a difference in the negligence of shooting at what you think is a deer in a bush and turning into what you think is a clear lane. We have charges like manslaughter for unintentionally causing a death. I'm honestly not getting why someone gets let off because they accidentally used a car to kill someone vs accidentally using a rifle. I do tend to hold people very accountable for their actions regardless of their intention. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Would blowing a stop sign be different. Just the other day, I came to a 4 way stop. Before I proceeded, a car came from my left at about 50mph and blew the sign. Not even a tap of the brakes. He would surely have killed me, had I not been paying attention (I always look both ways before going at any traffic device). Would he have been criminal? It's just a failure to yield. Read the thread and try to apply a little critical thinking to your question. I'm trying.
I don't see a difference in the negligence of shooting at what you think is a deer in a bush and turning into what you think is a clear lane. We have charges like manslaughter for unintentionally causing a death. I'm honestly not getting why someone gets let off because they accidentally used a car to kill someone vs accidentally using a rifle. I do tend to hold people very accountable for their actions regardless of their intention. im with this guy. im not saying the man is a murderer and to lock the old man away and throw away the key. 2 days is probably about right in this case, assuming it really was an accident. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:33:45 PM EDT
[#25]
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anyone that gets away with murder due to their negligence deserves to die
Oh Deer Lord please stop....I can't breathe....
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:34:46 PM EDT
[#26]
although a bunch of you see this as a travesty, I'm surprised any criminal charges were brought.
Was "justice" served? I dont know. I think this entire sentence too harsh. Any more would have been absurb for an 83 year old. I ride a motorcycle every day unless there is Ice on the ground, which doesnt happen often in Dallas. I have been in the situation the rider was in, as has my daughter who was injured, requiring multiple surgeries, due to a left turner. I say this so you know, I do know what it's like |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:35:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: anyone that gets away with murder due to their negligence deserves to die |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:36:13 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm a rider as well and anyone calling for the driver to face serious criminal charges is not thinking clearly.
Old people driving piss me off too but it's a slippery slope calling for criminal negligence. Besides, he's probably going to get hammered in a civil suit. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:38:20 PM EDT
[#29]
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Clearly, you have no idea what the legal definition of murder actually is... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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anyone that gets away with murder due to their negligence deserves to die Several need to research the meaning of the word "intent" as it applies to criminal law. Edit: And "negligence" too. Hint: "Negligence" is not a simple mistake--even if the consequences are horrible, as in this case. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:38:34 PM EDT
[#30]
The left turn at the intersection in front of the biker is by far the most common motorcycle accident. It took my brother out and several others I know. Kinda sick of the moronic complacency and lack of situational awareness of fucking car drivers.
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:38:36 PM EDT
[#31]
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Oh Deer Lord please stop....I can't breathe.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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anyone that gets away with murder due to their negligence deserves to die
Oh Deer Lord please stop....I can't breathe.... Here's wishing you some karma.. 
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:39:24 PM EDT
[#32]
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Besides, he's probably going to get hammered in a civil suit. Probably not. His auto insurance carrier will respond, settle for policy limits, and that will be it. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:39:48 PM EDT
[#33]
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Clearly, you have no idea what the legal definition of murder actually is... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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anyone that gets away with murder due to their negligence deserves to die not discussing "legal" definitions, if your actions or mistakes deprive someone of their life call it what you will, I'll call it what it is |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:40:01 PM EDT
[#34]
As a motorcycle rider, I accepted long ago that the task of staying alive rested entirely on my own shoulders.
They tell you in the class that the streets are full of people who can and will kill you. They're not kidding. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:41:14 PM EDT
[#35]
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Here's wishing you some karma.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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anyone that gets away with murder due to their negligence deserves to die
Oh Deer Lord please stop....I can't breathe.... Here's wishing you some karma.. Why thank you sir. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:43:01 PM EDT
[#36]
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Odd coming from someone defending the speeding motorcyclist in Israel? Excessive speed on an unprotected conveyance is not negligent? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe making negligence subject to increased punishment will make people less negligent. It seems to have worked for DUIs. Odd coming from someone defending the speeding motorcyclist in Israel? Excessive speed on an unprotected conveyance is not negligent? Speeding is nowhere near as negligent as turning in front of a vehicle due to failure to yield or crossing into their lane. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:43:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: not discussing "legal" definitions, if your actions or mistakes deprive someone of their life call it what you will, I'll call it what it is Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: anyone that gets away with murder due to their negligence deserves to die not discussing "legal" definitions, if your actions or mistakes deprive someone of their life call it what you will, I'll call it what it is Words mean things, regardless of your mouth-frothing, full-retard, ranting.
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:44:14 PM EDT
[#38]
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The left turn at the intersection in front of the biker is by far the most common motorcycle accident. It took my brother out and several others I know. Kinda sick of the moronic complacency and lack of situational awareness of fucking car drivers. I can give you a real life example of one way that it happens: I was leaving a convenience store parking lot, pulling into traffic. The area is urban, so LOTS of white lights as I looked to the left, but not the right, as it is the edge of town. It was dark. I looked left, looked right, left again, slowly started to go. When I looked left again (always paranoid about getting "t-boned") I had a little scooter coming to a panicked stop right outside my window. Even though I looked intently twice I failed to notice the little thing. The scooter was black and the driver was wearing dark clothes. His headlight was just another white light among many, and it appeared stationary due to the angle. Luckily he got stopped in time--with both feet on the ground. I lowered my window and apologized, but still don't really think I did anything "wrong"--even though I would have been cited for failure to yield had we collided. It happens. We both got lucky.
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:45:28 PM EDT
[#39]
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That's why they are called "accidents". No such thing as an accident, just different degrees of negligence. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:46:02 PM EDT
[#40]
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not discussing "legal" definitions, if your actions or mistakes deprive someone of their life call it what you will, I'll call it what it is Quote HistoryQuoted:
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anyone that gets away with murder due to their negligence deserves to die not discussing "legal" definitions, if your actions or mistakes deprive someone of their life call it what you will, I'll call it what it is Rush Limbaugh: "Words mean things" When you use a word whose definition doesn't fit the situation it makes you look less than educated/intelligent. You may wish to work on that, though you seem to be doing this deliberately. Carry on then! |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:46:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is there to be gained by criminal action against the old guy? Accidents happen when we interact with one another in ways which involve physics. He made it 83 years without engaging in criminal conduct, and this was likely a <common occurrence> oversight. Drive accordingly, and if you are smart, avoid riding motorcycles. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Kill someone because of your negligence, should just get a traffic citation. the people in this thread.What is there to be gained by criminal action against the old guy? Accidents happen when we interact with one another in ways which involve physics. He made it 83 years without engaging in criminal conduct, and this was likely a <common occurrence> oversight. Drive accordingly, and if you are smart, avoid riding motorcycles. Because of his negligence, he killed someone. There needs to be punishment. A year in prison should suffice. Also, driving tests should be done yearly after age 65. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:47:52 PM EDT
[#42]
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Speeding is nowhere near as negligent as turning in front of a vehicle due to failure to yield or crossing into their lane. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe making negligence subject to increased punishment will make people less negligent. It seems to have worked for DUIs. Odd coming from someone defending the speeding motorcyclist in Israel? Excessive speed on an unprotected conveyance is not negligent? Speeding is nowhere near as negligent as turning in front of a vehicle due to failure to yield or crossing into their lane. Yes, it most certainly is. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:48:24 PM EDT
[#43]
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I do tend to hold people very accountable for their actions regardless of their intention. you are most wanted in the next "oops, warrantless cops no-knock entry wrong house, homeowner/kid/dog flashbanged/shot/dead" thread. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:49:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably not. His auto insurance carrier will respond, settle for policy limits, and that will be it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Besides, he's probably going to get hammered in a civil suit. Probably not. His auto insurance carrier will respond, settle for policy limits, and that will be it. Unless the old timer is a person of means, this. Not sure where people think bazillion dollar payouts come from. If the person has a load of money that is one thing, otherwise you will get whatever coverage they have been paying for with their insurance company.
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:50:06 PM EDT
[#45]
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Why thank you sir. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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anyone that gets away with murder due to their negligence deserves to die
Oh Deer Lord please stop....I can't breathe.... Here's wishing you some karma.. Why thank you sir. How some people manage to figure out how to log on is stunning. Figuring out the definition of murder is to challenging... We failed as a society to better educate.
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:51:36 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Huh this is local to me and I am fairly plugged into the "motorcycle culture" , this is the first i have heard of it The rider worked at one of the local gun shops from what I've heard. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:52:17 PM EDT
[#47]
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Yes, it most certainly is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe making negligence subject to increased punishment will make people less negligent. It seems to have worked for DUIs. Odd coming from someone defending the speeding motorcyclist in Israel? Excessive speed on an unprotected conveyance is not negligent? Speeding is nowhere near as negligent as turning in front of a vehicle due to failure to yield or crossing into their lane. Yes, it most certainly is. Bullshit. People speed, even excessively, everyday without collision. But every time somebody fails to yield and turns in front of an oncoming vehicle, a collision, or near collision occurs. And when you're speeding, you're paying attention to the road. When somebody fails to yield to oncoming traffic, it's because they were not paying attention to the road. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:52:32 PM EDT
[#48]
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Really? So every soldier who has killed someone in the line of duty is a murderer then? Words mean things, regardless of your mouth-frothing, full-retard, ranting.
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anyone that gets away with murder due to their negligence deserves to die not discussing "legal" definitions, if your actions or mistakes deprive someone of their life call it what you will, I'll call it what it is Words mean things, regardless of your mouth-frothing, full-retard, ranting.
I'm not ranting,or frothing, I am not talking about war either, nice strawman. I am discussing someone who, through their actions killed someone. If you are ok with people killing your loved ones and then saying"oops, my bad" and giving them a free pass that is your choice. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:55:49 PM EDT
[#49]
The old guy should have to be the biker's family's butler.
I think that would be fair. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 2:58:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, it most certainly is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Maybe making negligence subject to increased punishment will make people less negligent. It seems to have worked for DUIs. Odd coming from someone defending the speeding motorcyclist in Israel? Excessive speed on an unprotected conveyance is not negligent? Speeding is nowhere near as negligent as turning in front of a vehicle due to failure to yield or crossing into their lane. Yes, it most certainly is. Yep, it's stupid friday. |
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