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Posted: 10/23/2014 4:53:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bikes speed was excessive but was not the cause of the accident. I disagree. As shown above on page 4 the car was back in it's lane at time of impact. If the biker had been going the speed limit no crash would have taken place. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 4:54:53 PM EDT
[#2]
<a href="http://s207.photobucket.com/user/mdar15manager/media/Bike2_zps24728629.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb277/mdar15manager/Bike2_zps24728629.jpg</a>
I based my earlier comments after I watched it several times I saw the above. By the time of the impact it looks to me the car was in its lane with maybe a back tire on the line even if that car was sitting still the result would have been the same. Instead of a car it could have been someone crossing the road or a rock that rolled off the hit. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 4:57:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I disagree. As shown above the car was back in it's lane at time of impact. If the biker had been going the speed limit no crash would have taken place. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The bikes speed was excessive but was not the cause of the accident. I disagree. As shown above the car was back in it's lane at time of impact. If the biker had been going the speed limit no crash would have taken place. False. The car was in the middle of the road. The biker was on the line but was going to fast to maneuver out of the way. Two idiots. 
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Posted: 10/23/2014 4:59:11 PM EDT
[#4]
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Yes the car went over the line, giving the motorcycles and people at the side of the road room - perfectly predictable. Avoiding road hazards or things is part of driving. It appeared safe to do so when the car was giving them room. The motorcycle was going way way way too fast. Had it been going the speed limit or a reasonable speed, the car and bike would have easily avoided each other. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I will say that if the rider had been following the speed limit me would have been able to avoid that. If you want to race take it to a closed circuit. Sure the car was at fault but the biker wasn't so innocent either in the whole event. Quick question, what's the speed limit on that section of Hwy? How fast was the bike going? Also, who was in their lane of travel and who wasn't? I agree the bike was going a little fast but not even close to 100mph like someone here posted. His speed didn't cause the accident. His speed did hinder his ability to swerve and miss the car in his lane. Bullshit. 
Had he not been balls-to-the-walls hauling ass, he would have easily avoided that slow moving car. He was going waaaaaay too fast for a public road and had no time to avoid it. Motorcycle rider here. So what part of my post are you saying is BS? ETA The parked bikes/riders are clearly off the pavement and in the dirt. The speeding motorcyle is hugging the center line but clearly in his lane. The car is clearly straddling the center lane. And who's fault is it? Yes, the bike would have a contributing factor of speed, the fault would be the car for traveling into oncoming traffic. I'll be the first to say there are tons of idiots on sportbikes snd in cars. <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mototard/media/E65D5082-EBFC-4EC2-B657-83921254125E_zps6msnxnje.png.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/mototard/E65D5082-EBFC-4EC2-B657-83921254125E_zps6msnxnje.png</a> Yes the car went over the line, giving the motorcycles and people at the side of the road room - perfectly predictable. Avoiding road hazards or things is part of driving. It appeared safe to do so when the car was giving them room. The motorcycle was going way way way too fast. Had it been going the speed limit or a reasonable speed, the car and bike would have easily avoided each other. The bikes speed kept him from being able to get out of the way of the vehicle in his lane. His speed did not cause the accident. The cause of the accident was the car in the bikes lane. So your saying that if the car wasn't in the bikes lane then the bike would have still struck the car? Yeah I didn't think so. The primary cause of the accident was a vehicle crossing into oncoming traffic. The bikes speed was a contributing factory due to his speed didn't allow him an out. The bike did not cause the accident. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 4:59:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's some shit. The car was illegally over the line and in his lane. Fuck cagers. Only thing better would be if the caged was talking on the cell whilst applying makeup. Rip Car was giving space to the idiots filming on the shoulder. Darwin wins, rider was 'tarded for pushing the limits on a public road. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:02:37 PM EDT
[#6]
I don't know guys. I have ridden bikes for the last 14 years.
One of my innate rules is to never, never, never assume anything. That alone has helped keep me alive numerous times when if I had been assuming, going faster, riding close to centerline on left hand turns, I would have died. That car assumed no one was coming. That motorcyclist assumed no one was there. A cager can assume a little and live. A biker can't assume anything. Ever. If I on my motorcycle speeding at the center of a blind turn hit a car, the last thing going through my mind before my butt did would have been, "Well, Pat, YOU screwed up!" Just sayin' |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:04:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So they were doing this on an open public road? No fucks given. Yeah, they were traveling on a public road on a licensed motorcycle, in their own lane when hit by someone encroaching across the line. No fucks will be given if you die because someone can't fucking drive either.  |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:05:31 PM EDT
[#8]
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More like almost completely on the OTHER lane. <a href="http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/scollins1868/media/C389C0EC-1D20-4BE6-A682-CFAB67DAE29D_zps47jnbfz2.png.html" target="_blank">http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i420/scollins1868/C389C0EC-1D20-4BE6-A682-CFAB67DAE29D_zps47jnbfz2.png</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The car was in the middle of the road didn't give the bike anywhere to go. http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/ll_a_s/2014/Oct/21/LiveLeak-dot-com-c8d_1413934721-faceplant_1413934736.png?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bdd6924d47d3d1f25c&ec_rate=230 Middle? More like almost completely on the OTHER lane. <a href="http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/scollins1868/media/C389C0EC-1D20-4BE6-A682-CFAB67DAE29D_zps47jnbfz2.png.html" target="_blank">http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i420/scollins1868/C389C0EC-1D20-4BE6-A682-CFAB67DAE29D_zps47jnbfz2.png</a> From this photo, a reasonable person could deduce that the car was moved over to give the idiots in the shoulder space as he passed by, right as the dipshit on the rocket came screaming out of that turn. R.I.P. dead asshole. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:07:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I disagree. As shown above the car was back in it's lane at time of impact. If the biker had been going the speed limit no crash would have taken place. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The bikes speed was excessive but was not the cause of the accident. I disagree. As shown above the car was back in it's lane at time of impact. If the biker had been going the speed limit no crash would have taken place. If the bike had been going the speed limit, but left 45 seconds earlier, he would be just as dead....when someone encroaches on your lane, often there's no time to react, high speed or not. Let's not get confused where fault is.....the person who isn't in their own fucking lane....wait for it.....is always 100% at fault. Always. Every time. That's why there's lines. You're not supposed to be in the other lane, because there's vehicles over there coming at you. Jesus. This fucking forum.  |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:10:10 PM EDT
[#10]
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That's an early shot. Here it is moments later: <a href="http://s207.photobucket.com/user/mdar15manager/media/bike1_zps904d8f0c.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb277/mdar15manager/bike1_zps904d8f0c.jpg</a> At this point you can see the car has moved to the right (rear is about half over the line). Then look at impact time: <a href="http://s207.photobucket.com/user/mdar15manager/media/Bike2_zps24728629.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb277/mdar15manager/Bike2_zps24728629.jpg</a> Car is just one the line on it's side. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I will say that if the rider had been following the speed limit me would have been able to avoid that. If you want to race take it to a closed circuit. Sure the car was at fault but the biker wasn't so innocent either in the whole event. Quick question, what's the speed limit on that section of Hwy? How fast was the bike going? Also, who was in their lane of travel and who wasn't? I agree the bike was going a little fast but not even close to 100mph like someone here posted. His speed didn't cause the accident. His speed did hinder his ability to swerve and miss the car in his lane. Bullshit.
Had he not been balls-to-the-walls hauling ass, he would have easily avoided that slow moving car. He was going waaaaaay too fast for a public road and had no time to avoid it. Motorcycle rider here. So what part of my post are you saying is BS? ETA The parked bikes/riders are clearly off the pavement and in the dirt. The speeding motorcyle is hugging the center line but clearly in his lane. The car is clearly straddling the center lane. And who's fault is it? Yes, the bike would have a contributing factor of speed, the fault would be the car for traveling into oncoming traffic. I'll be the first to say there are tons of idiots on sportbikes snd in cars. <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mototard/media/E65D5082-EBFC-4EC2-B657-83921254125E_zps6msnxnje.png.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/mototard/E65D5082-EBFC-4EC2-B657-83921254125E_zps6msnxnje.png</a> That's an early shot. Here it is moments later: <a href="http://s207.photobucket.com/user/mdar15manager/media/bike1_zps904d8f0c.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb277/mdar15manager/bike1_zps904d8f0c.jpg</a> At this point you can see the car has moved to the right (rear is about half over the line). Then look at impact time: <a href="http://s207.photobucket.com/user/mdar15manager/media/Bike2_zps24728629.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb277/mdar15manager/Bike2_zps24728629.jpg</a> Car is just one the line on it's side. And, half a tire over the line is still traveling in the wrong lane. Those pictures show the bike still on his side of the road and the car in his lane right up to impact. What happens when you hit the brakes on a motorcycle? The bike stands up and wants to track straight (if braking properly, only rear brakes makes the rear tire attempt to pass the front tire). Hard to swerve away from a car in your lane when on the brakes. As I said earlier the bikes speed is a contributing factor. The cause was the car in the wrong lane. If the car had stayed in its lane the accident wouldn't have happened. Yes you can say if the bike wasn't speeding he might have been able to swerve and avoid the collision, maybe. Or you can say that if the biker had stayed home then he could have avoided the accident. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:10:13 PM EDT
[#11]
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False. The car was in the middle of the road. The biker was on the line but was going to fast to maneuver out of the way. Two idiots. http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s602/wayned58/2_zps456ae320.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The bikes speed was excessive but was not the cause of the accident. I disagree. As shown above the car was back in it's lane at time of impact. If the biker had been going the speed limit no crash would have taken place. False. The car was in the middle of the road. The biker was on the line but was going to fast to maneuver out of the way. Two idiots. http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s602/wayned58/2_zps456ae320.jpg That's still prior to impact, and even with that photo it shows the car mostly in it's own lane - and the Biker RIGHT ON THE LINE. Had the bike been going slower the car would have been completely in it's lane - and the biker would have had time to move to the center of his lane or even stop. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:10:30 PM EDT
[#12]
What is the speed limit on that road?
And how fast was the bike actually going? I mean, if some of you are sure that the biker was going way faster than the speed limit, then you must know both of those numbers. I've seen posts estimating 100+ mph, but if somebody with functioning eyeballs could weigh in, that would be better. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:12:36 PM EDT
[#13]
No doubt in my mind the car driver was LEGALLY at fault.
But riders on bikes can't ever have a "who is legally in the right?" mindset when they get on the bike. It has to be a "how could anybody try to kill me?" mindset. He didn't have that mindset. No matter how much punishment the car driver gets for the accident, the biker paid a bigger fine. I don't trust the "laws" to keep me alive when I am enjoying a good ride. I use experience and knowledge about how dumb decisions can be made by others to keep me alive and I try as much as I can to be in a position where I don't pay a price for their dumbness. Patrick |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:16:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I disagree. As shown above the car was back in it's lane at time of impact. If the biker had been going the speed limit no crash would have taken place. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I disagree. As shown above the car was back in it's lane at time of impact. If the biker had been going the speed limit no crash would have taken place. If the bike had been going the speed limit, but left 45 seconds earlier, he would be just as dead [/qutoe] Nope - he would have had time to move the middle of the lane or stop. Going the speed limit would have increased his reaction time substantially. ....when someone encroaches on your lane, often there's no time to react, high speed or not. Often time there is (BTDT) this is one of those times. The car was moving slow at the time of impact - the fast moving bike reduced the available reaction time of both vehicles. Let's not get confused where fault is.....the person who isn't in their own fucking lane....wait for it.....is always 100% at fault. Not when you're grossly exceeding the speed limit. See "Contributory negligence" for details. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:18:41 PM EDT
[#15]
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I don't know guys. I have ridden bikes for the last 14 years. One of my innate rules is to never, never, never assume anything. That alone has helped keep me alive numerous times when if I had been assuming, going faster, riding close to centerline on left hand turns, I would have died. That car assumed no one was coming. That motorcyclist assumed no one was there. A cager can assume a little and live. A biker can't assume anything. Ever. If I on my motorcycle speeding at the center of a blind turn hit a car, the last thing going through my mind before my butt did would have been, "Well, Pat, YOU screwed up!" Just sayin' Well said. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:21:26 PM EDT
[#16]
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Those of you fellow riders, who think this was all the cars fault, need to consider not riding ever again. Drivers do stupid shit, all of them; be ready for it. If you are only worried about controlling your bike/vehicle, and not anticipating the other guy being in the wrong, you are going to end up like our hero in this video. You may not like that, but that's reality. We don't live in an ideal world. ETA: The driver looked to be avoiding the people and bikes too close to the side of the road, for fear one might come out of no where. This is my feeling as well. I ride, but am not a serious biker. 2005 KLR650 puttering along in the right lane beating hell to hit 75 on a good day! Technically that car was at fault, for crossing into oncoming traffic, but he was doing so to give pedestrians a berth. Something we all do. Biker was not controllable, and paid the price. lot of stupid and sad in that video, I feel bad for the girl, that'll mess you up for a long long long time. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:23:52 PM EDT
[#17]
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If the bike had been going the speed limit, but left 45 seconds earlier, he would be just as dead....when someone encroaches on your lane, often there's no time to react, high speed or not. Let's not get confused where fault is.....the person who isn't in their own fucking lane....wait for it.....is always 100% at fault. Always. Every time. That's why there's lines. You're not supposed to be in the other lane, because there's vehicles over there coming at you. Jesus. This fucking forum.
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The bikes speed was excessive but was not the cause of the accident. I disagree. As shown above the car was back in it's lane at time of impact. If the biker had been going the speed limit no crash would have taken place. If the bike had been going the speed limit, but left 45 seconds earlier, he would be just as dead....when someone encroaches on your lane, often there's no time to react, high speed or not. Let's not get confused where fault is.....the person who isn't in their own fucking lane....wait for it.....is always 100% at fault. Always. Every time. That's why there's lines. You're not supposed to be in the other lane, because there's vehicles over there coming at you. Jesus. This fucking forum.
Holy shit finally someone with a little common sense. I've done an accident report or two over the yrs and cause was, crossing the center line into on coming traffic (car) contributing factory of the bike would be excessive speed. Fault car. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:27:15 PM EDT
[#18]
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That's still prior to impact, and even with that photo it shows the car mostly in it's own lane - and the Biker RIGHT ON THE LINE. Had the bike been going slower the car would have been completely in it's lane - and the biker would have had time to move to the center of his lane or even stop. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The bikes speed was excessive but was not the cause of the accident. I disagree. As shown above the car was back in it's lane at time of impact. If the biker had been going the speed limit no crash would have taken place. False. The car was in the middle of the road. The biker was on the line but was going to fast to maneuver out of the way. Two idiots. http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s602/wayned58/2_zps456ae320.jpg That's still prior to impact, and even with that photo it shows the car mostly in it's own lane - and the Biker RIGHT ON THE LINE. Had the bike been going slower the car would have been completely in it's lane - and the biker would have had time to move to the center of his lane or even stop. The pic you refer to is after intial impact. The biker is in the air almost clear of the car. You guys keep saying mostly in their lane, almost in their lane, one tire on the line. All that still means the car was in the wrong lane. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:28:48 PM EDT
[#19]
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No doubt in my mind the car driver was LEGALLY at fault. But riders on bikes can't ever have a "who is legally in the right?" mindset when they get on the bike. It has to be a "how could anybody try to kill me?" mindset. He didn't have that mindset. No matter how much punishment the car driver gets for the accident, the biker paid a bigger fine. I don't trust the "laws" to keep me alive when I am enjoying a good ride. I use experience and knowledge about how dumb decisions can be made by others to keep me alive and I try as much as I can to be in a position where I don't pay a price for their dumbness. Patrick Words to live by if you ride, heck no matter what you drive. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:30:32 PM EDT
[#20]
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This is my feeling as well. I ride, but am not a serious biker. 2005 KLR650 puttering along in the right lane beating hell to hit 75 on a good day! Technically that car was at fault, for crossing into oncoming traffic, but he was doing so to give pedestrians a berth. Something we all do. Biker was not controllable, and paid the price. lot of stupid and sad in that video, I feel bad for the girl, that'll mess you up for a long long long time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Those of you fellow riders, who think this was all the cars fault, need to consider not riding ever again. Drivers do stupid shit, all of them; be ready for it. If you are only worried about controlling your bike/vehicle, and not anticipating the other guy being in the wrong, you are going to end up like our hero in this video. You may not like that, but that's reality. We don't live in an ideal world. ETA: The driver looked to be avoiding the people and bikes too close to the side of the road, for fear one might come out of no where. This is my feeling as well. I ride, but am not a serious biker. 2005 KLR650 puttering along in the right lane beating hell to hit 75 on a good day! Technically that car was at fault, for crossing into oncoming traffic, but he was doing so to give pedestrians a berth. Something we all do. Biker was not controllable, and paid the price. lot of stupid and sad in that video, I feel bad for the girl, that'll mess you up for a long long long time. And the "pedestrians", were actually there to set up a video shoot of the bike, causing the car to have to avoid them. Setting up a video shoot such as that on an busy road ends with predictable results. I road ONE single time with idiots like that, and never again. Actually, I road alone, as I didn't want to totally ignore all traffic laws, and set myself up to become a hood ornament. Turned out to be a very nice solitary ride, where I would meet up with the bunch when ever they stopped for 10 to 15min for me to catch up. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:32:55 PM EDT
[#21]
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And the "pedestrians", were actually there to set up a video shoot of the bike, causing the car to have to avoid them. Setting up a video shoot such as that on an busy road ends with predictable results. I road ONE single time with idiots like that, and never again. Actually, I road alone, as I didn't want to totally ignore all traffic laws, and set myself up to become a hood ornament. Turned out to be a very nice solitary ride, where I would meet up with the bunch when ever they stopped for 10 to 15min for me to catch up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Those of you fellow riders, who think this was all the cars fault, need to consider not riding ever again. Drivers do stupid shit, all of them; be ready for it. If you are only worried about controlling your bike/vehicle, and not anticipating the other guy being in the wrong, you are going to end up like our hero in this video. You may not like that, but that's reality. We don't live in an ideal world. ETA: The driver looked to be avoiding the people and bikes too close to the side of the road, for fear one might come out of no where. This is my feeling as well. I ride, but am not a serious biker. 2005 KLR650 puttering along in the right lane beating hell to hit 75 on a good day! Technically that car was at fault, for crossing into oncoming traffic, but he was doing so to give pedestrians a berth. Something we all do. Biker was not controllable, and paid the price. lot of stupid and sad in that video, I feel bad for the girl, that'll mess you up for a long long long time. And the "pedestrians", were actually there to set up a video shoot of the bike, causing the car to have to avoid them. Setting up a video shoot such as that on an busy road ends with predictable results. I road ONE single time with idiots like that, and never again. Actually, I road alone, as I didn't want to totally ignore all traffic laws, and set myself up to become a hood ornament. Turned out to be a very nice solitary ride, where I would meet up with the bunch when ever they stopped for 10 to 15min for me to catch up. ha, sounds like me. I rather ride alone, I never have to pee, eat, rest, etc same time as everyone else, and I'm a lot less stressed if I can go as fast, or slow, as I want. you're spot on, in a way, the pedestrians filming this were the root cause, the car and bike both added to a dead guy. I feel bad for all of them. That must have sucked to see/hear in real life. I watched a guy lose his head in a car/bus wreck one time. I didn't know him but I've never really gotten that out of my head. 
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:37:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Might be better if all but 2 seconds of video wasn't of the ground.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:42:25 PM EDT
[#24]
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If the bike had been going the speed limit, but left 45 seconds earlier, he would be just as dead....when someone encroaches on your lane, often there's no time to react, high speed or not. Let's not get confused where fault is.....the person who isn't in their own fucking lane....wait for it.....is always 100% at fault. Always. Every time. That's why there's lines. You're not supposed to be in the other lane, because there's vehicles over there coming at you. Jesus. This fucking forum.
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The bikes speed was excessive but was not the cause of the accident. I disagree. As shown above the car was back in it's lane at time of impact. If the biker had been going the speed limit no crash would have taken place. If the bike had been going the speed limit, but left 45 seconds earlier, he would be just as dead....when someone encroaches on your lane, often there's no time to react, high speed or not. Let's not get confused where fault is.....the person who isn't in their own fucking lane....wait for it.....is always 100% at fault. Always. Every time. That's why there's lines. You're not supposed to be in the other lane, because there's vehicles over there coming at you. Jesus. This fucking forum.
You're making blanket statements. I generally think blanket statements are a bad idea because they're wrong so often. Just as you are in this case. One, if he'd have left 45 seconds earlier and was traveling the speed limit, he would have had the reaction time to avoid the car that was rapidly moving back over into it's own lane. We know that at the point of impact, the rear tire of the car was on the line, and the car was at an angle. The only way for that to work, is for the front of the car to be back in it's own lane at the point of impact. The pictures demonstrate this to be the case. As far as always being the fault of the person in the other lane, that's not true either. Leeway is given in cases of people avoiding hazards. Since we started billing for MVAs, we get lawyers arguing about the billing due to fault, and the judge's rulings come back to us real often. I've seen several judges call MVAs acts of God that involved someone being over a line due to avoiding a hazard, like people. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:47:52 PM EDT
[#25]
After watching the video and reading all the comments I have come to the following conclusion.
1. The driver of the car should get a ticket for trying to avoid the mob on the side of the road. 2. The biker is dead because he was dumb. Doesn't really matter who is legally at fault here. The biker made a bad choice and paid for it with his life. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:52:17 PM EDT
[#26]
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If you are older than 10 and have ever driven on roads, you realize how bad people drive in cars. So what in the fuck would make you want to take away any of the protection you have (seatbelts, airbags etc), hop on a bike, and zoom around twisty ass roads. Common sense people. So we should eliminate motorcycles? After all Common Sense would lean that way. Kind of the same mentality we face every day from gun grabbers. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:52:41 PM EDT
[#27]
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Really, we are lucky each time any of us comes around a blind corner, even at the speed limit or well under it. It's just by pure luck that there isn't a broken down vehicle, large road debris, a fallen tree, or somebody simply stopped in the road to save a turtle. Think about that each time you come around a blind turn. I do. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:56:25 PM EDT
[#28]
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So we should eliminate motorcycles? After all Common Sense would lean that way. Kind of the same mentality we face every day from gun grabbers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you are older than 10 and have ever driven on roads, you realize how bad people drive in cars. So what in the fuck would make you want to take away any of the protection you have (seatbelts, airbags etc), hop on a bike, and zoom around twisty ass roads. Common sense people. So we should eliminate motorcycles? After all Common Sense would lean that way. Kind of the same mentality we face every day from gun grabbers. Motorcyclists take care of eliminating themselves. While it's true that you can do everything right on a bike and get killed by some retard in a car, plenty of guys on bikes do a bunch of wrong shit, whether it's over estimating ability or thinking that they have a right to be a dick, that the good riders are getting more and more rare. Especially on sport bikes. Funny how rare we work accidents involving cruisers. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 6:00:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Fucking cagerz maaaaaaan. Biker would have been ok if he was observing the posted speed limit, been in control of his vehicle, had his seatbelt on and the airbags deployed.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 6:00:50 PM EDT
[#30]
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You're making blanket statements. I generally think blanket statements are a bad idea because they're wrong so often. Just as you are in this case. One, if he'd have left 45 seconds earlier and was traveling the speed limit, he would have had the reaction time to avoid the car that was rapidly moving back over into it's own lane. We know that at the point of impact, the rear tire of the car was on the line, and the car was at an angle. The only way for that to work, is for the front of the car to be back in it's own lane at the point of impact. The pictures demonstrate this to be the case. As far as always being the fault of the person in the other lane, that's not true either. Leeway is given in cases of people avoiding hazards. Since we started billing for MVAs, we get lawyers arguing about the billing due to fault, and the judge's rulings come back to us real often. I've seen several judges call MVAs acts of God that involved someone being over a line due to avoiding a hazard, like people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The bikes speed was excessive but was not the cause of the accident. I disagree. As shown above the car was back in it's lane at time of impact. If the biker had been going the speed limit no crash would have taken place. If the bike had been going the speed limit, but left 45 seconds earlier, he would be just as dead....when someone encroaches on your lane, often there's no time to react, high speed or not. Let's not get confused where fault is.....the person who isn't in their own fucking lane....wait for it.....is always 100% at fault. Always. Every time. That's why there's lines. You're not supposed to be in the other lane, because there's vehicles over there coming at you. Jesus. This fucking forum.
You're making blanket statements. I generally think blanket statements are a bad idea because they're wrong so often. Just as you are in this case. One, if he'd have left 45 seconds earlier and was traveling the speed limit, he would have had the reaction time to avoid the car that was rapidly moving back over into it's own lane. We know that at the point of impact, the rear tire of the car was on the line, and the car was at an angle. The only way for that to work, is for the front of the car to be back in it's own lane at the point of impact. The pictures demonstrate this to be the case. As far as always being the fault of the person in the other lane, that's not true either. Leeway is given in cases of people avoiding hazards. Since we started billing for MVAs, we get lawyers arguing about the billing due to fault, and the judge's rulings come back to us real often. I've seen several judges call MVAs acts of God that involved someone being over a line due to avoiding a hazard, like people. I disagree with the part in red, here are the pictures . Not even a second before impact.Note cars position, maybe one car length till impact.. 
As close as you can get to impact, note cars position. 
After impact. Note cars position, rear tire still across or on the line, biker has traveled almost the length of car after the initial impact. 
Also (2rd pic) note the distance the car has travelled and the distance the bike has travelled. Not that much difference, maybe half a car length more travel from the bike. And we have posters saying 100+ MPH. 
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Posted: 10/23/2014 6:01:51 PM EDT
[#31]
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What is the speed limit on that road? And how fast was the bike actually going? I mean, if some of you are sure that the biker was going way faster than the speed limit, then you must know both of those numbers. I've seen posts estimating 100+ mph, but if somebody with functioning eyeballs could weigh in, that would be better. He was manifestly too fast, not for the law, but for safety. He was too fast, simply because he had no chance of avoiding the obstruction. She was too fast also, and to maintain speeds too fast to pass the shoulder gang, she invaded the oncoming lane. Both should have slowed enough to negotiate the turn safely and in their lanes. They did not, and their excessive speed caused the fatality. In my book it's joint failure, joint fault. Charge both, but don't throw the book at either. They already paid in proportion to their fault. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 6:03:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: False. The car was in the middle of the road. The biker was on the line but was going to fast to maneuver out of the way. Two idiots. http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s602/wayned58/2_zps456ae320.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The bikes speed was excessive but was not the cause of the accident. http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s602/wayned58/2_zps456ae320.jpg It looks like he's actually over it too at impact, or at least the front tire. Note his trajectory from the prior stills. In another millisecond he would have been fully over the line as well. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 6:55:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It looks like he's actually over it too at impact, or at least the front tire. Note his trajectory from the prior stills. In another millisecond he would have been fully over the line as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The bikes speed was excessive but was not the cause of the accident. http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s602/wayned58/2_zps456ae320.jpg It looks like he's actually over it too at impact, or at least the front tire. Note his trajectory from the prior stills. In another millisecond he would have been fully over the line as well. Yup, he probably tried to go to the left of the car at the last second, instead of to the outside. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 7:25:08 PM EDT
[#34]
I am looking at the lines and placement of the car and bike. Now with a broken white line ,if there is something in the road (crowd) the car is legal to move into the other lane to avoid them, right or wrong? The solid white no passing line is up by the bike. Technically up to that point, didn't the car had every right to be there to avoid an object (crowd)? From where the lines were, wouldn't it be safe to assume that the car could legally have been 100% in that lane if it needed to be and that the placement of the lines says that ANYONE coming from the other way should have been able to avoid it if they were driving at posted speeds? Te bike came from a no passing line and turn. I would have figured they would have speed limits designed around the road and lines to match with them. Of course its Israel so who knows who the lines work over there. Was there even a speed limit? |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 7:35:07 PM EDT
[#35]
I really don't care how many of you disagree with what I said. The slower that you go the more reaction time that you have. I have rode a motorcycle on public roads for 10 years now. When on a bike you have to ride defensively. A road like that would have a maximum of a 40 mph speed limit. I know that this wasn't in the US but any road over here that has curves like that has a max speed of around 40mph. That rider did two things very wrong. He was on the line. When on a bike you want to give yourself a way out when going around a corner because you don't know what is coming around it. The second was that he was going too fast for that corner. He made it around the corner, yes but look where he exited the corner. Have I been guilty of riding like this? I have and I realized my ways and I have changed them. I drive as a profession. I have been everywhere in the US. You will see people coming around corners like that in every type of vehicle. The car was at fault but if the biker hadn't been acting like the road was a track he would still be alive. I stand by that comment.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 7:39:29 PM EDT
[#36]
Whenever you decide to encroach into another's lane it is 100% up to you to ensure that it can be done safely. Not the other person. They have every right to be anywhere in their lane, you don't.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 9:11:41 PM EDT
[#37]
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Whenever you decide to encroach into another's lane it is 100% up to you to ensure that it can be done safely. Not the other person. They have every right to be anywhere in their lane, you don't. So next time I am riding my race bike, I will stay on my side and go fast even if it is just on my side on a blind left curve because if some dummy is half in my lane, I have every right to be there and they don't and if they are half in my lane and I hit them, it will be 100% their fault. I feel like I will live much longer as a biker now. Thanks. 
Patrick |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 9:42:35 PM EDT
[#38]
And if there had been a stopped line of traffic in his lane he would have plowed into it. His fault. The car was traveling at a reasonable and safe speed leaving a safe distance between the vehicle and people stopped needlessly close to the line. As for the people saying, "the car was across the line," look at the first two seconds and you will clearly see the torso of the biker was also over the line coming around the corner. The car had a good reason to be over the line, the bike did not.
The biker is dead. The driver should see no repercussions. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 9:52:21 PM EDT
[#39]
Will I be the first to place the entirety of the blame on the driver simply because she's a woman? That's the route I'm going. Driving While Female.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 9:58:25 PM EDT
[#40]
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Whenever you decide to encroach into another's lane it is 100% up to you to ensure that it can be done safely. Not the other person. They have every right to be anywhere in their lane, you don't. It was a safe move until dipshit came around the corner hauling way more ass than the car driver could have reasonably expected. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 10:22:57 PM EDT
[#41]
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So next time I am riding my race bike, I will stay on my side and go fast even if it is just on my side on a blind left curve because if some dummy is half in my lane, I have every right to be there and they don't and if they are half in my lane and I hit them, it will be 100% their fault. I feel like I will live much longer as a biker now. Thanks.
Patrick Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Whenever you decide to encroach into another's lane it is 100% up to you to ensure that it can be done safely. Not the other person. They have every right to be anywhere in their lane, you don't. So next time I am riding my race bike, I will stay on my side and go fast even if it is just on my side on a blind left curve because if some dummy is half in my lane, I have every right to be there and they don't and if they are half in my lane and I hit them, it will be 100% their fault. I feel like I will live much longer as a biker now. Thanks.
Patrick You could do that if assholes didn't lane cheat you. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 10:33:58 PM EDT
[#42]
Driver's fault: the car was over the white line
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Posted: 10/23/2014 10:43:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Fault doesn't mean shit when you're dead. If the rider wasn't showing off, going way too fast for the conditions and his abilities, he wouldn't of died that day.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 10:59:54 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whenever you decide to encroach into another's lane it is 100% up to you to ensure that it can be done safely. Not the other person. They have every right to be anywhere in their lane, doing the speed limit so others can safely judge your closing speed and visibility you don't. Its quite possible the "cager" had a right to be in the lane with the broken white lines to avoid an obstacle and not expect a bike dong 100mph to suddenly appear. Was the car crossing a solid or broken line? |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 11:00:20 PM EDT
[#45]
It's possible that the rider could see the car in its proper lane before entering the blind turn, and then when he exited, all of a sudden the car was in his lane.
Secondly, drivers tend to lane cheat motorcycles because they assume due to the narrow profile a motorcycle, an oncoming rider will get over to the side when the driver feels the need to cross the centerline, such as when avoiding obstacles like parked cars, pedestrians, etc. Instead of the driver slowing or even stopping to allow the motorcycle to pass, they just get over into your lane and push you over. And usually, you end up doing this as a rider because you have no choice. If the driver was even looking down the lane and saw the rider approaching, he or she might have assumed the rider would have moved over to accommodate the car; but unfortunately the motorcycle at that speed wouldn't turn quickly enough to avoid the collision. If it would have been a big truck barreling around that turn at high speed, it's possible the driver would have gotten over more quickly, or even seen the truck ahead before it entered the turn, and not been in the wrong lane in the first place. The driver would have stopped and waited for the truck to pass if it couldn't get by the crowd safely. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 11:02:44 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's possible that the rider could see the car in its proper lane before entering the blind turn, and then when he exited, all of a sudden the car was in his lane. Secondly, drivers tend to lane cheat motorcycles because they assume due to the narrow profile a motorcycle, an oncoming rider will get over to the side when the driver feels the need to cross the centerline, such as when avoiding obstacles like parked cars, pedestrians, etc. Instead of the driver slowing or even stopping to allow the motorcycle to pass, they just get over into your lane and push you over. And usually, you end up doing this as a rider because you have no choice. If the driver was even looking down the lane and saw the rider approaching, he or she might have assumed the rider would have moved over to accommodate the car; but unfortunately the motorcycle at that speed wouldn't turn quickly enough to avoid the collision. If it would have been a big truck barreling around that turn at high speed, it's possible the driver would have gotten over more quickly, or even seen the truck ahead before it entered the turn, and not been in the wrong lane in the first place. The driver would have stopped and waited for the truck to pass if it couldn't get by the crowd safely. Big trucks are much easier to see and judge speed. Believe it or not, you bikers are harder to see and doing 100mph does not help you. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 11:04:59 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's possible that the rider could see the car in its proper lane before entering the blind turn, and then when he exited, all of a sudden the car was in his lane. Secondly, drivers tend to lane cheat motorcycles because they assume due to the narrow profile a motorcycle, an oncoming rider will get over to the side when the driver feels the need to cross the centerline, such as when avoiding obstacles like parked cars, pedestrians, etc. Instead of the driver slowing or even stopping to allow the motorcycle to pass, they just get over into your lane and push you over. And usually, you end up doing this as a rider because you have no choice. If the driver was even looking down the lane and saw the rider approaching, he or she might have assumed the rider would have moved over to accommodate the car; but unfortunately the motorcycle at that speed wouldn't turn quickly enough to avoid the collision. If it would have been a big truck barreling around that turn at high speed, it's possible the driver would have gotten over more quickly, or even seen the truck ahead before it entered the turn, and not been in the wrong lane in the first place. The driver would have stopped and waited for the truck to pass if it couldn't get by the crowd safely. My point is the driver didn't know that and assumed it would have, like the driver probably does all the time to motorcycles. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 11:07:32 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My point is the driver didn't know that and assumed it would have, like the driver probably does all the time to motorcycles. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's possible that the rider could see the car in its proper lane before entering the blind turn, and then when he exited, all of a sudden the car was in his lane. Secondly, drivers tend to lane cheat motorcycles because they assume due to the narrow profile a motorcycle, an oncoming rider will get over to the side when the driver feels the need to cross the centerline, such as when avoiding obstacles like parked cars, pedestrians, etc. Instead of the driver slowing or even stopping to allow the motorcycle to pass, they just get over into your lane and push you over. And usually, you end up doing this as a rider because you have no choice. If the driver was even looking down the lane and saw the rider approaching, he or she might have assumed the rider would have moved over to accommodate the car; but unfortunately the motorcycle at that speed wouldn't turn quickly enough to avoid the collision. If it would have been a big truck barreling around that turn at high speed, it's possible the driver would have gotten over more quickly, or even seen the truck ahead before it entered the turn, and not been in the wrong lane in the first place. The driver would have stopped and waited for the truck to pass if it couldn't get by the crowd safely. My point is the driver didn't know that and assumed it would have, like the driver probably does all the time to motorcycles. Either way, I dont wish that situation on either side.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 11:09:14 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The driver is right to assume the bike was driving safely and doing the speed limit and was right to drive accordingly. Either way, I dont wish that situation on either side. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's possible that the rider could see the car in its proper lane before entering the blind turn, and then when he exited, all of a sudden the car was in his lane. Secondly, drivers tend to lane cheat motorcycles because they assume due to the narrow profile a motorcycle, an oncoming rider will get over to the side when the driver feels the need to cross the centerline, such as when avoiding obstacles like parked cars, pedestrians, etc. Instead of the driver slowing or even stopping to allow the motorcycle to pass, they just get over into your lane and push you over. And usually, you end up doing this as a rider because you have no choice. If the driver was even looking down the lane and saw the rider approaching, he or she might have assumed the rider would have moved over to accommodate the car; but unfortunately the motorcycle at that speed wouldn't turn quickly enough to avoid the collision. If it would have been a big truck barreling around that turn at high speed, it's possible the driver would have gotten over more quickly, or even seen the truck ahead before it entered the turn, and not been in the wrong lane in the first place. The driver would have stopped and waited for the truck to pass if it couldn't get by the crowd safely. My point is the driver didn't know that and assumed it would have, like the driver probably does all the time to motorcycles. Either way, I dont wish that situation on either side. Just like the rider was right to assume the car would not be across the centerline into his lane. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 11:12:00 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You could do that if assholes didn't lane cheat you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Whenever you decide to encroach into another's lane it is 100% up to you to ensure that it can be done safely. Not the other person. They have every right to be anywhere in their lane, you don't. So next time I am riding my race bike, I will stay on my side and go fast even if it is just on my side on a blind left curve because if some dummy is half in my lane, I have every right to be there and they don't and if they are half in my lane and I hit them, it will be 100% their fault. I feel like I will live much longer as a biker now. Thanks.
Patrick You could do that if assholes didn't lane cheat you. And theeeeerrreeee's the problem. They do. Soooooo, maybe drive like you would like to live past the bike ride. |
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