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Posted: 10/23/2014 1:40:01 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Idiot in the cage was obviously at fault and murdered that guy on the bike. He probably said "I didn't see him" never mind the cager didn't stay in his own lane. Probably got a failure to yield ticket and $300 fine.  What the fuck is up with this "cager" term. Seems like a bunch of 13ers spewing that shit. What are y'all, about 12 years old? 
Doesn't really matter who's in the right and who's in the wrong here. One guy went home at the end of that video with his heart still pumping, other dude went to the morgue in a body bag. Don't do stupid shit, especially on a motorcycle, and chances are you'll be the one going home instead of the alternative. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 1:40:57 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The car was in the middle of the road didn't give the bike anywhere to go. lol Except his whole lane on the right. The bike was on the freaking line when they collided. Was the car speeding? Was the bike? You guys are hilarious. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 1:45:07 AM EDT
[#3]
The gravel part of the video was very entertaining.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 1:46:37 AM EDT
[#4]
The bike wasn't going all that fast. He had plenty of time to go right. He target fixated right into the car.
STAY TO THE RIGHT!!! 
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Posted: 10/23/2014 1:49:19 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Idiot in the cage was obviously at fault and murdered that guy on the bike. He probably said "I didn't see him" never mind the cager didn't stay in his own lane. Probably got a failure to yield ticket and $300 fine. LOL Gayest fucking thing ever. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 1:55:27 AM EDT
[#6]
Why didn't the guy on the motorcycle just slow down and give them both reaction time...
Oh yeah, he driving like a dipshit and got himself killed. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 1:56:53 AM EDT
[#7]
BOTH are at fault here.
1. Idiot in the car should really be in his lane to give oncoming traffic more room. 2. If the dipshit on the bike was going the speed limit, he could have avoided the car.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 2:06:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As usual, car over the line had no bearing on the accident, correct? After all it was a public road.  The driver should be cited for manslaughter.
Like the usual story around here. Rider was not wearing a helmet. They just happen to leave out he was sitting on the side of the road when a drunk crossed the double yellow and plowed in to him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So they were doing this on an open public road? No fucks given. As usual, car over the line had no bearing on the accident, correct? After all it was a public road. The driver should be cited for manslaughter.
Like the usual story around here. Rider was not wearing a helmet. They just happen to leave out he was sitting on the side of the road when a drunk crossed the double yellow and plowed in to him. Yep. About 1980 or so a friend of mine wrecked his bike, killing his girlfriend. He wasn't doing anything particularly stupid as I recall, he just list control of his dirt bike on a gravel county road. She died by having a fence post shoved through her chest. But the news paper made a point that she was wearing a helmet at the time. Like ot made one bit of difference whether she was or wasn't. I think this was the first time I noticed adgendas in news reporting. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 2:07:48 AM EDT
[#9]
Dat sound of the collision.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 2:09:15 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Target fixation is a bitch. He had plenty of room to the right. Using derogatory slang terms (cager) only makes you look foolish. You'll make yourself extremely unpopular around here if you keep being rational 
For the record, I agree with both statements, and add that when you decide to go faster than your reaction time window on a public road, you're implicitly betting your life on other people's driving. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 2:19:04 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You'll make yourself extremely unpopular around here if you keep being rational For the record, I agree with both statements, and add that when you decide to go faster than your reaction time window on a public road, you're implicitly betting your life on other people's driving. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Target fixation is a bitch. He had plenty of room to the right. Using derogatory slang terms (cager) only makes you look foolish. You'll make yourself extremely unpopular around here if you keep being rational For the record, I agree with both statements, and add that when you decide to go faster than your reaction time window on a public road, you're implicitly betting your life on other people's driving. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 2:25:30 AM EDT
[#12]
With all of his buddies parked and hugging the edge of the road I'm not surprised at all. People tend to drift away from pedestrians milling around on the shoulder. Sad all the way around but avoidable on several levels.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 2:31:43 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Might want to read up on the definition of murder. Guy on the bike was show boating for the camera and riding above his abilities. When you ride on the public road, you have to account for what everyone else on that road might do, if you want to survive in one piece. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Idiot in the cage was obviously at fault and murdered that guy on the bike. He probably said "I didn't see him" never mind the cager didn't stay in his own lane. Probably got a failure to yield ticket and $300 fine. Guy on the bike was show boating for the camera and riding above his abilities. When you ride on the public road, you have to account for what everyone else on that road might do, if you want to survive in one piece. I'm by now means a "motorcycle apologist", most things on two wheels on the roads piss me off - but this one's hard. Hotdogging or not, the car was on the wrong side of the road coming right at him causing a head on collision. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 2:31:56 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Idiot in the cage was obviously at fault and murdered that guy on the bike. He probably said "I didn't see him" never mind the cager didn't stay in his own lane. Probably got a failure to yield ticket and $300 fine. Oh shit looks like the Sons of Anarchy are getting pissed. Better back the fuck up. As has been said before Public Road + Camera x Your Biker Buddies + excessive speed = Show Boating Show Boating = Stupid Game Stupid Game = Stupid Prize Looks to me like the driver was getting out of the way of the congregation of people on the side of the road and was trying to not be an ass hole. When "Don't Fuck with California" came flying around the corner. Feel sorry for his girl for having to see that shit, feel sorry for his family for having to bury him. Don't feel sorry for him as this all could have been avoided. Also Murder ....... Really? lighten up Jax Teller |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 2:33:42 AM EDT
[#15]
From one of the comments on there:
I used to ride my motorcycle on that road (Nes Harim, approx. 20 km from Jerusalem). This specific curve the accident happened on is very popular for one main reason: It has a section that is off the road, with benches. A lot of bikers tend to stop there and film their friends riding, which unfortunately this time had fatal results. Israel has no professional tracks for riders to ride safely, its an issue we are faced with every weekend. We do have some tracks that are used by safety instructors to teach riders "safe" techniques in taking curves, etc. The guy involved in this accident was actually an instructor, a well known in the motorcycle community and was known for his skills. The main issue we are facing these days is car drivers with their idiotic ability to deviate from their lanes. For all the riders out there, ride safe. This is particular video proves that it doesn't matter how good you ride, your fate is in most cases determined by the oncoming traffic. Another comment: The car was just coming out of the same dirt parking the bikes were parked at. Both car passengers are ok, the driver is a woman. Biker died at the hospital, he was 27, a riding instructor, the camerawoman is his girlfriend. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 2:51:46 AM EDT
[#16]
This is another fatal motorcycle accident. The mother releases her sons helmet cam footage for safety. This one happens real quick.
 (accident is at @2.47) http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0d0_1409840751 |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 3:55:31 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Not going to buff out. Happened in Israel.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e2d_1413920505 "The fatal accident occurred on the Nes Harim-Tsur Hadassah road (Highway 386) which is considered a motorcycle "Highway of Death". The many twists and turns on the road attract many motorcyclists, who come every weekend and ride at high speed while they perform "layers" (a condition where the motorcycle rider touches his knee down to the road). In recent years several motorcyclists were killed on the dangerous road, some of them skilled riders who lost control and crashed on the hairpin bends. Yesterday afternoon it was motorcyclist Maor (27), from Holon, an experienced, skilled rider who was into athletic training. His girlfriend was waiting with a camera in one of the turns in the road to catch him in action. http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/ll_a_s/2014/Oct/22/LiveLeak-dot-com-e44_1414033435-motor_1414033521.jpg.resized.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bdd6924d40dcd6fd1f&ec_rate=230 Faceplant in the cars roof area you can see huge dent. http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/ll_a_s/2014/Oct/21/LiveLeak-dot-com-875_1413926443-Capturerrr_1413926470.png.resized.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bdd6924d40dcd6fd1f&ec_rate=230 http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/ll_a_s/2014/Oct/22/LiveLeak-dot-com-e44_1414033435-maor_1414033519.jpg.resized.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bdd6924d40dcd6fd1f&ec_rate=230 Play stupid games, and all that |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 3:59:13 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well that guy is dead as shit. So his GF is back on the market? 
ETA: To soon?
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Posted: 10/23/2014 4:03:24 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Car should have moved over when she saw the oncoming traffic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The car was in the middle of the road didn't give the bike anywhere to go. Car should have moved over when she saw the oncoming traffic. With the guy doing 100+ MPH in a 25-35 zone.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 4:15:34 AM EDT
[#20]
Who sells those "two in the pink one in the stink" gloves?
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Posted: 10/23/2014 4:50:53 AM EDT
[#21]
The victim mentality is strong in this this thread.
Squid got squished by a cage while showing off for the camera. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 4:59:48 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What the fuck is up with this "cager" term. Seems like a bunch of 13ers spewing that shit. What are y'all, about 12 years old?
Doesn't really matter who's in the right and who's in the wrong here. One guy went home at the end of that video with his heart still pumping, other dude went to the morgue in a body bag. Don't do stupid shit, especially on a motorcycle, and chances are you'll be the one going home instead of the alternative. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Idiot in the cage was obviously at fault and murdered that guy on the bike. He probably said "I didn't see him" never mind the cager didn't stay in his own lane. Probably got a failure to yield ticket and $300 fine. What the fuck is up with this "cager" term. Seems like a bunch of 13ers spewing that shit. What are y'all, about 12 years old?
Doesn't really matter who's in the right and who's in the wrong here. One guy went home at the end of that video with his heart still pumping, other dude went to the morgue in a body bag. Don't do stupid shit, especially on a motorcycle, and chances are you'll be the one going home instead of the alternative. Typical cager response...
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:13:33 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As usual, car over the line had no bearing on the accident, correct? After all it was a public road. The driver should be cited for manslaughter.
Like the usual story around here. Rider was not wearing a helmet. They just happen to leave out he was sitting on the side of the road when a drunk crossed the double yellow and plowed in to him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So they were doing this on an open public road? No fucks given. As usual, car over the line had no bearing on the accident, correct? After all it was a public road. The driver should be cited for manslaughter.
Like the usual story around here. Rider was not wearing a helmet. They just happen to leave out he was sitting on the side of the road when a drunk crossed the double yellow and plowed in to him. The biker's buddies hold some fault here too. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:19:59 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pulling that shit anywhere outside of a track environment is asking for an accident. Yep. And these fuckers will show up to an accident t where there idiot buddy rear ended a car so hard that he flew over and got ran over, and blame the guy that got rear ended, and threaten them. I've seen numerous accidents that were blatantly the fault of the rider where all they did was blame everyone else . I've never seen the herd admit the truth, it's always someone else's fault. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:25:00 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is another fatal motorcycle accident. The mother releases her sons helmet cam footage for safety. This one happens real quick.
(accident is at @2.47) http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0d0_1409840751 DWI. Driving while an idiot |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:31:45 AM EDT
[#26]
It's funny how squids think us cagers are impressed when their shitstain buddies pull a rolling roadblock on I95 so some jackass can do an 90MPH wheelie on the busiest freeway in the U.S.
If you're one of those guys, fuck you. I'm rooting for you to crash. I'm hoping I have my phone. If I manage to catch your dumb ass dying a spectacular fiery death, I'm gonna put the video on youtube. And I'm gonna hold the fucking phone sideways too! |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:37:25 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's funny how squids think us cagers are impressed when their shitstain buddies pull a rolling roadblock on I95 so some jackass can do an 90MPH wheelie on the busiest freeway in the U.S. If you're one of those guys, fuck you. I'm rooting for you to crash. I'm hoping I have my phone. If I manage to catch your dumb ass dying a spectacular fiery death, I'm gonna put the video on youtube. And I'm gonna hold the fucking phone sideways too! I have a dashcam. When I see one, I'm going to put it on youtube and every other site I can, monetize it, and use the money to promote it. Everyone should see how stupid these guys are. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:42:10 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a dashcam. When I see one, I'm going to put it on youtube and every other site I can, monetize it, and use the money to promote it. Everyone should see how stupid these guys are. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's funny how squids think us cagers are impressed when their shitstain buddies pull a rolling roadblock on I95 so some jackass can do an 90MPH wheelie on the busiest freeway in the U.S. If you're one of those guys, fuck you. I'm rooting for you to crash. I'm hoping I have my phone. If I manage to catch your dumb ass dying a spectacular fiery death, I'm gonna put the video on youtube. And I'm gonna hold the fucking phone sideways too! I have a dashcam. When I see one, I'm going to put it on youtube and every other site I can, monetize it, and use the money to promote it. Everyone should see how stupid these guys are. I don't want to make money off of it. But I will laugh at the simple motherfuckers. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:46:53 AM EDT
[#29]
Sad. Car was across the lane, wonder if it was over there partially due to the bikes parked right by the side of the road and the camera operator standing by the side as most people tend to pull away from the side of the road across the line when there is something/someone by the edge of it.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:49:26 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like where, Over the guard rail or in to the people on the l/side of the road, crossing directly in to the car. ? Better Vision by the car might have saved him. Never ceases to amaze me how many excuses there are for cars when they kill a mc rider. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The car was in the middle of the road didn't give the bike anywhere to go. I don't see that. I see the car over the line and the biker right ON the line. The bike had plenty of room. Better vision might have saved him. Like where, Over the guard rail or in to the people on the l/side of the road, crossing directly in to the car. ? Better Vision by the car might have saved him. Never ceases to amaze me how many excuses there are for cars when they kill a mc rider. Are you trolling for responses, or are you being serious? Watch the video again. The bike was hauling ass around that corner. He was driving like he was on a MotoGP track with his knee almost touching the ground. The "cager" was already over the line giving the parked bikes a wide berth by the time the bike became visible around the corner - look at the shadow cast by the minivan as soon as it becomes visible in the frame 
Are you intellectually honest enough to consider these questions dispassionately? - Would the driver of the bike still be alive if he hadn't been driving at an excessive rate of speed? - Would the minivan needed to move over if two of the parked bikes weren't so close to the edge of the road? |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 6:24:55 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He sure impressed the girls though, I doubt they'll ever forget that. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 6:40:46 AM EDT
[#32]
I will say that if the rider had been following the speed limit me would have been able to avoid that. If you want to race take it to a closed circuit. Sure the car was at fault but the biker wasn't so innocent either in the whole event.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 7:19:03 AM EDT
[#33]
Can't see any pictures...
Looks like in the video they both screwed up. But the biker paid the bulk of the bill. Patrick |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 7:47:01 AM EDT
[#34]
Old bikers understand the laws of physics and human nature.
I've never gotten upset when someone pulls out in front of me or pushes me out of my lane. It happens, expect it. But those damn squirls, they just like to fuck with ya. They dart back and forth playing some kinda of game of chicken or something. Bastards. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 7:50:38 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As usual, car over the line had no bearing on the accident, correct? After all it was a public road. The driver should be cited for manslaughter.
Like the usual story around here. Rider was not wearing a helmet. They just happen to leave out he was sitting on the side of the road when a drunk crossed the double yellow and plowed in to him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So they were doing this on an open public road? No fucks given. As usual, car over the line had no bearing on the accident, correct? After all it was a public road. The driver should be cited for manslaughter.
Like the usual story around here. Rider was not wearing a helmet. They just happen to leave out he was sitting on the side of the road when a drunk crossed the double yellow and plowed in to him. Looked to me they were both over the line. But clearly the bike was WAY the fuck over the speed limit. still just terrible and very sad. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 7:53:31 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The car crossed the line, not the motorcycle. Defensive drive, Bro? I never can understand I am dead right mentality of bicycle and motorcycle riders. Sure your are right, but you are still dead. If I took that mentality with tractor trailer rigs, folks would be saying, "Palm be gone." |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:00:31 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like where, Over the guard rail or in to the people on the l/side of the road, crossing directly in to the car. ? Better Vision by the car might have saved him. Never ceases to amaze me how many excuses there are for cars when they kill a mc rider. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The car was in the middle of the road didn't give the bike anywhere to go. I don't see that. I see the car over the line and the biker right ON the line. The bike had plenty of room. Better vision might have saved him. Like where, Over the guard rail or in to the people on the l/side of the road, crossing directly in to the car. ? Better Vision by the car might have saved him. Never ceases to amaze me how many excuses there are for cars when they kill a mc rider. agree, but motorcyclist do very stupid stuff as well. watch it again and try and pause it. The bike was not in control and drifting into on coming lane, also not the HUGE differental in speed. The bike drifted after the turn. The car was obviously avoiding something, it was too far ahead of the curve to be swinging wide. Seriously, I ride too but I don't do this kind of stuff on a public road. TRACK DAY guys! |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:01:29 AM EDT
[#38]
Damn!
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:02:16 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As usual, car over the line had no bearing on the accident, correct? After all it was a public road. The driver should be cited for manslaughter. Like the usual story around here. Rider was not wearing a helmet. They just happen to leave out he was sitting on the side of the road when a drunk crossed the double yellow and plowed in to him. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So they were doing this on an open public road? No fucks given. As usual, car over the line had no bearing on the accident, correct? After all it was a public road. The driver should be cited for manslaughter. Like the usual story around here. Rider was not wearing a helmet. They just happen to leave out he was sitting on the side of the road when a drunk crossed the double yellow and plowed in to him. Or said another way, you can't go balls to the wall assuming everyone else will drive perfectly. If you do, you are taking your life in your own hands more so than normally. Like it or not, that's why speed limits exist. That's why advisory speeds exist. "I don't need to follow those, I'm a good driver, I have a race vehicle" is fine 99.99% of the time that nothing is around the corner you are barreling through. That other 0.01% is a bitch. Both parties were negligent, the guy in the smaller more dangerous vehicle died. Hard to beat physics. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:04:35 AM EDT
[#40]
Nobody coming from the opposite direction at track days. The rider would still be around had he considered this option. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:14:32 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Likely didn't see him. Probably fixated on the group on the roadside. "I wonder what they're filmi" Bam! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So they were doing this on an open public road? No fucks given. As usual car over the line had no bearing on the accident, correct? Like the usual story around here. Rider was not wearing a helmet. They just happen to leave out he was sitting on the side of the road when a drunk crossed the double yellow and plowed in to him. Car was obviously giving space for people on the side of the road. Please...........Let me guess He / She didn't see the motorcycle.  Likely didn't see him. Probably fixated on the group on the roadside. "I wonder what they're filmi" Bam! If that were the case, some may say the car was taking a wide turn to go around the parked bikes. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:19:18 AM EDT
[#42]
From the comments:
Some details: The car was just coming out of the same dirt parking the bikes were parked at. Both car passengers are ok, the driver is a woman. Biker died at the hospital, he was 27, a riding instructor, the camerawoman is his girlfriend. That's all I know. Posted 1 day ago By Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e2d_1413920505#vu7UVmaO6ddX1c6W.99 |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:19:24 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nobody coming from the opposite direction at track days. The rider would still be around had he considered this option. No racetracks in Israel. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:23:28 AM EDT
[#44]
Israelis drive like Honey Badgers.
Their cultural mores are mostly Eastern European, therefore, like Pittsburgh, it is what it is, reasoning isn't going to change such rock headed sons of sausage makers, thus a reasonable person must adapt accordingly or perish. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:24:17 AM EDT
[#45]
He was relatively close to the line, yes, but that car was WAY over the line. Were they giving room for the bystanders? probably. They were still out in the middle of the road though. That said, I don't think that type of riding (or driving for that matter) on a public road is appropriate or wise, regardless of ones prior experience.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:24:53 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So they were doing this on an open public road? No fucks given. He was in his lane, car was too. Wasnt the bikers fault. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:26:21 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Car was obviously giving space for people on the side of the road. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So they were doing this on an open public road? No fucks given. As usual car over the line had no bearing on the accident, correct? Like the usual story around here. Rider was not wearing a helmet. They just happen to leave out he was sitting on the side of the road when a drunk crossed the double yellow and plowed in to him. Car was obviously giving space for people on the side of the road. So, the bikes were off the road the car was in the bikes lane. 100% cars fault. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:26:28 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No racetracks in Israel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nobody coming from the opposite direction at track days. The rider would still be around had he considered this option. No racetracks in Israel. No shit? I did not know that. That's strange. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:27:35 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He was relatively close to the line, yes, but that car was WAY over the line. Were they giving room for the bystanders? probably. They were still out in the middle of the road though. That said, I don't think that type of riding (or driving for that matter) on a public road is appropriate or wise, regardless of ones prior experience. Everyone (bike riders in particular) seems to be missing the fact the girlfriend who made the video appears to have been standing right in the right lane of traffic. The car HAD to go around her, and the dead guy just happened to come around the curve at that moment. Several coincidences all converged to kill him. Blaming the car's driver is silly. 
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:30:06 AM EDT
[#50]
Was the person in the car ok?
Cars are built so occupants survive such accidents and worse. You can die just falling off a motorcycle at a stop sign..........just sayin. Motorcycles are dangerous, just like tight rope walking over the grand canyon, you can be as careful as possible, but one small mistake can lead to your death. Your fault, the other guys fault, doesn't matter.........the motorcycle rider is still the dead one. |
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