And they shouldn't have to. That's the point I think, it's the principal of the thing.

I've had both good and bad experiences at dealerships. There are some good people in sales; but that is far from the norm in my experience.



I know what I want when I go in and what I feel is a fair price to pay.



What I hate are advertisements for dealers with no-haggle pricing. They say it's hassle free and the best price available is on the window. That's bullshit, especially for used car. I'm not saying I want to get a smokin' deal; but if you are 100% not budging on price I'll go to the next place that is.

I have purchased several new vehicles just like that through an auto broker.
I went online and did the "build your xxxxx vehicle" on the manufacturer website. I put together the vehicle I wanted, and all the options I wanted. I printed the final results out and faxed them to the broker. He looked around and found a vehicle very close to what I wanted (it wasn't exact, but very close). He then told me the price. He didn't haggle.  He told me the price and that was it. I had bought a Consumer Reports magazine that listed the dealer wholesale price, the MSRP, and what a reasonable number to pay was. His price was exactly the price that Consumer Reports listed as a reasonable number to pay. I should point out that this price was a number that the local dealer said there was no possible way they could sell me the vehicle for.

I told him I wanted the vehicle, two days later it came in on a flat bed.
The second vehicle I bought from the guy he offered to register it for me so I didn't have to wait in line at the DMV. He even fronted the money for the registration and I just paid him when I went to pick up the vehicle.

Of course this business model only works when you know what you want. He didn't have a lot full of cars. He didn't have any cars at all. He simply had an office.  You had to go in there knowing what you wanted and he simply found it for you. If you wanted to compare various options packages, or do a test drive, or anything other than simply purchase the car this was not the place to do business.


FWIW: I understand what the OP is saying.
If you went to a normal dealer and shopped for a vehicle, test drove them, dickered with them..............and then went to a broker and got a better price; it would be the right thing to do to at least call the sales person at the dealer and give them a chance to match the price given by the broker. After all, they took the time to help you in your selection. If they don't match the price, OK. But I think it is only right to give them a chance to match the price. In the end, you have to do what is best for you. But that doesn't mean you have to be a dick about it.  In my case the dealer wouldn't budge off of their price and I ended up buying at least three different vehicles from that broker. I would still be buying vehicles from that broker but I moved and I don't know of a broker around here.

That's sad. I urge husbands to bring their wives, and women to leave their husbands at home. I find ladies to be more understanding of things like "value" and "service".  I also find them to be more willing to converse with me and make rational decisions. I know a lot of guys here will laugh, but it's true. I don't sell cars, but the principle is the same.

Sometimes I get folks who don't want to negotiate, which in fine with, but try to rush and hurry the quoting process and be a general asshat. Like I'm some kind of sleaze ball salesman.

True story: I had a customer looking for a machine. I quoted him, my competition 100 miles away was $100 cheaper (his words, it's funny they never bring a quote). I raised my price a thousand bucks and out the door he went. Fortunately I have the discretion to negotiate price as high or as low as I want, and even to tell turds to please leave. And I have done all of the above.

When "buyers" come in and want my best price, I give it to them. Sometimes the dealership down the way is cheaper. That's fine, I make commission on margin. Charging more than the next guy isn't screwing the buyer over, our dealerships strive for building relationships and excellent customer service and let me tell you guys a secret. When we come out and fix something on our own good will, guess who pays for it? I DO.

Again, I don't sell cars. Never have. But I've run into as many assholes on both sides of the desk.

Show up to work like your avatar there...

I had a long post typed up recounting my (most recent) car buying experience earlier this year, then I thought about it and figured it was just pissing in the wind, you know the industry you went into and the well earned rep it has.  The salesman I dealt with earlier in the year didn't have to sell me anything, and I told him my price before even walking in the door, he's the one who wanted to stretch a 15 minute transaction to 2.5 hours didn't bother me, I had all day. Less than 30 minutes after I walked in the door I could have been walking back out and he would have had the same money in his pocket, if he made $5 an hour for that 3 hours instead of the $30 an hour he could have made, that's his fault.

Had a friend who did better than anyone I knew in the car business, he started at 18 and got the reputation for no bs, best price salesman, he told me one time he figured out early that there were two ways to make a name in the car business, try to rape everyone that comes thru the door and sell a few cars a month, but make a good bit on each one, or give everyone that comes in the very best price you can and sell a LOT of cars due to it.

It sucks that the Business Model is so adversarial.  

Thanks for trying to help.

Car dealers and their employees have earned their shitty reputations.
Its not the customers fault they have the reputations they do, its their own fault by past and presently continuing actions.

Thats why Costco's means or avoiding everyone and just going to the Fleet ordering is so much more awesome. Heck, we even have whole dealerships hear who offer No Dicker stickers... Basically the price listed is the price. You don't like it, well there's the door. No trying to wear you down. just selling you a product. And not the hard sell.

Take the tax advantage of the trade value offered, or sell your car and take the cash. It's not rocket science.
The dealership needs to make a profit on your trade whether it goes on the lot or to an auction. They're in business to make money. Aren't you?

This thread is full of babies that got hosed on a car deal and blame the dealership instead of their own impatience and inability to shop for the best price/value.

Back in the day that was pretty much the norm.
A lot of things here have changed to prevent that type of thinking, such as having to take a mandatory .gov education class and pass a written exam to acquire a license to sell vehicles as a profession.

3 complaints and your license is pulled for good and you are out of the profession for life.
In some cases you can even wind up in jail.

Are there not some sort of consumer protection laws in the U.S. that are similar ?

^What this guy just said.  Honestly though if you hate the whole car buying experience.  Just go thru American Express or Costco.  Youll pay about the lowest you can for a new car and skip the salesman stuff.  Youll most likely go thru the dealerships fleet sales.

They are trying to make max profit on every sale still...yet OP is trying to claim they make their money off of volume.  If they were going for volume, they'd price stuff to move without the games......seems OP and reality aren't matching.

Came here to post this. Someone else can pay for that new car smell. They're not called "stealerships" for nothing.

Back in the nineties I worked at a large volume Ford dealership that utilized the no haggle model. The best price was indeed on the window, and we didn't budge EVER. I let people walk out over floor mats, and I did it with a smile.

You know what happened after they left? About 90% came back within 48 hours, once they realized that we were the cheapest anywhere. Selling 500 to 600 cars a month gave us quite an advantage over the smaller stores.

Many customers tried to haggle just because that's "what you do" at a car dealership. Many people got upset when we wouldn't budge - but then they left, got educated, and came back.

The rise of the Internet was the greatest boon ever for our dealership, because it helped people get educated before they walked in

What do you think about Carmax?  Their business model is "no haggle" and they seem to be doing fairly well.  Same with Scion.

Sorry, but there is simply too much damage already done to ever salvage the reputation of the car salesman.  When people hear "car salesman" they reflexively think "lying. malicious piece of shit".

Is that unfair to you?  Probably, but reality is often an unfair bitch, and we frequently get the pleasure of paying for the sins of our predecessors.  

I get this part. My time is valuable and so is yours. I'll give you a price and if you want to negotiate, sure. If there's room. Sometimes, my answer is no. My price is my price, let's do the deal. Sometimes they walk, many times the don't. I try not to keep anyone in my office over 30 minutes, it's not productive for either party.

And, our service rate is $98.00 an hour and your part cost $1200.00 so your repairs will be $1800.00. We pay our mechanics poorly in MOST dealerships and mark the price of parts up 1000%. Peddle the poor dealership antics elsewhere. If it sucks so bad find another business to operate.

I still have a low opinion of most car salesmen. All the vehicles I have ever bought came with aggressive sales tactics, the same old "we are already losing money on this at our asking price" schtick, the "let me ask my manager" and have them come out for round 2 of aggressive tactics, things like the $1500 "reconditioning fee" where they say they will go over everything with a fine tooth comb on a used vehicle, but essentially just wash it and vacuum it. Not even change the oil or top off the washer fluid. The latter is likely because they want to get me to come in for a first oil change for "free." Then they will tell me I need to spend a bunch of money replacing this and that, etc.

For new cars, CarMax only has four dealerships, as far as I can tell.
For used cars, the "no haggle" seems less important than the "no crappy cars" that seem to be the case.
The problem with "no haggle" new cars is that due to the oppressive, monopolistic laws, in a lot of places, there isn't any competition. So "no haggle" just means "we've decided our profit margin--take it or don't buy this brand of car".

Because you have never looked at shit at best buy then ordered on Amazon, or finger fucked a firearm at cabelas or gander and had your local guy order it or get that online? That's below you right?

Lol, guess what, $50 is $50.

I liked my salesman when I bought my truck in 2010. I went back and bought my wife's car from him in 2011. I went back last year to get a 2013 before they were gone because they were cheap. 2 years prior, my truck was in an accident because a prius was cutting between cars in a parking lot, I didn't notice the cop marked on the police report that the airbag deployed.

Carfax shows an airbag deployment that never happened and so the dealer would only offer me kbb fair value. Since they just auction cars with an airbag deployment rather then sell used. 4k under what it otherwise would have been. This dealership repaired my truck so they know what happened. Carfax says they won't change it unless the police report is ammended. Cop says he won't change it because he can't remember and it may have been, though I thought that would have been illegal to repair a vehicle except for the airbag if it had a lean on it... I just wanted some help from the dealer to clarify it.

Well, I still have my 2010, and I guess he didn't want the sale. Know who I will never buy a car from again?....

I keep pictures, the police report, the carfax, and the repair receipt in my truck at all times now.

I have never sold a machine for retail price. And dealership don't either, save for specialty or rare units. If someone pays retail, that's their own problem.

And in my personal experience, that is where they fleece people.



All the horror stories I've heard of people getting screwed by car dealerships have involved trips to the repair shop.



 

And that's why people hate car salesmen.

True and I suppose CarMax adds value in other ways.  No haggle does make it a much easier experience for those not willing or able to deal with a salesman.

Tax advantage?    You mean you can lower your tax on the new car by subtracting the value of the trade advantage?  I think the 6k in my pocket is a better deal.  

Then you insult and belittle people for trying to maximize their profit?

Getting defensive and sticking up for a business will get you nowhere but embarrassed.

Well he's right, only suckers pay retail.

I went to one of the largest dealers in STL. The company I think owns a dealership or two of every brand of car other than exotics. Walked in knowig our trade needed tires, expecting to take the ding on that. "Certified appraiser" walks out and comes in and says needs tires and a new windshield. Undercuts the "nada trade in" by $3k I think it was. I said the windshield is brand new. He says "so doesn't need I won't need to replace it". I walked outside and scraped a little big guts he was calling a chip off and the deal was basically done. The salesman did not look happy as we were prepared to buy a car from him on a nasty rainy day. The appraiser cost him a sale.

Something I've noticed. Kelley Blue Book was the big thing. It became available on the web and people started knowing their vehicle's value. So then they said we use the Nada value. Nada has become easily accessible on line and people use that. Now they've pulled a new trick "we've called multiple wholesalers and this is what they will give for it". That is not an easily accessible tool for buyers to use.

Ugh I hate car shopping.

I love car dealerships.  Without them the parolees and probationers I supervise wouldn't be able to get work.

Your way is indeed better

A couple weeks ago I bought my wife a new car. Our daughter just finished drivers ed, and she got my wife's old car. I called the dealership I used to work for, spoke to one of my old coworkers, and told him what my wife wanted. He e-mailed me the specs on around a dozen units that fit her specs, including pricing. Since there was no trade it was a simple deal. We drove to the store so Mrs CJan drove one, she decided on a color, and we were out of there in less than an hour with her new car. She did end up getting heated seats, a sunroof, and remote start - so we spent a little more than expected but no big deal.

We put ten grand down and financed it for 36 months. Knowing my wife it will probably be paid off in a year

Are you saying that if there was a consumer demand, that there would not be a business to fill that consumer demand?  Really?

Tell me why I should go down in the dirt to cut my price if you're a laydown customer? I get paid commission. I never NEVER charge retail. I offer a price that is both fair for the customer and keeps my commission strong. If you snatch the credit app out of my hand and get to work with no negotiation or due diligence on your part, well, I'm not gonna say "naw man, I'll knock another 2% off" out of the goodness of my heart. I don't play games. I quote, sometimes I negotiate, and i always try to build a good relationship with my customers and let them know they can count on me. If you can't pay an extra 2% or whatever for the satisfaction of knowing I have my phone on me 24/7 and have been out in a field at 6 am on a Sunday morning trying to get a machine going on my own time and dime so I can keep a customer happy, then we can't make a deal.

*Stand up, hand shake* Thank you for coming in, and have a nice day, sir.

Sorry, after generations of being sleezy, lying, sorry sacks-of-shit they've earned their rep.

What tax advantage?  Buyer pays sales tax in VA, not seller.  Like I said, I could understand a few grand off market value to make a profit (we would have agreed to $5k without question for the convenience), but that was just stupid.  And I didn't get hosed on the deal, because I laughed at those offers and sold it on the internet without the "benefit" of a middleman.

100% fact.

Get me in and out of there in 30 minutes, I'll probably give you the $50.  2+ hours later, I'm pissed off and you will give it to me if you want the sale.  It isn't hard to figure out.

I bought two new cars in the past 3 months. The process is still a fucking nightmare, and car dealers are STILL lying, thieving, no good, lily livered scoundrels that should be run out of town tied to the back of a horse. Truecar/costco/edmunds/ etc.,HELP with the process but its still just fucking stupid. There is really no reason for them to exist, and this bullshit about car dealers complaining about Tesla selling direct is laughable. Fuck them. All of them. Hope they all go down in flames one day....

Are you at a Dodge dealership here in AZ?  If so I want a new Challenger!

LOL
Explain how I am belittling people for maximizing their profit. They have a choice of where to buy and what to pay, and it doesn't have to be from me. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Ask around for a referral.  The good, honest ones don't advertise - they don't need to.  Word of mouth keeps them busy.

Fuck the dealership....last new truck i bought the sales rep called me 4 days after i took it home and said they made a mistake and I owed them $1500.

I laughed my ass off and told the guy to go fuck himself ...

He said they made a mistake on the "rebate"....i said..."that's your business...not mine"

then he threatened to come and get it or have it repo'ed...

i said good, then i'll have a stolen vehicle to report.

even the manager called back in 3 days....told him the same thing.

nothing happened again.

They're no better now than they were in the 60s, if anything they're more annoying.

While that article was so dance with information I don't think I can read it and three settings.

Cars are overpriced because the article said so?  It reads  like it was written by a used car salesman and promoted here by the author.

Perfect! You sat down and made a conscious decision that was to your best benefit! You're a knowledgeable consumer. I don't have a single problem with that.

You didn't get a couple thousand off market value because the dealership didn't see the advantage of your car, on their lot. They went low on the trade in order to send it to an auction for a buy-here-pay-here guy to snag up. I wholesale machines I don't want on my lot all the time. They gave you the option, you declined. They weren't trying to screw you, they just knew that taking your car in to put on their used lot was a bad business decision, and went another route while still giving you an opportunity to unload your car.

I'm just not seeing how this is the dealership's fault.

The issue I have is that if they didn't want the car, they could have said so.  Instead I got the "this thing is a piece of shit, you're lucky we're offering you anything" routine.  ETA:  Which they told us immediately after telling us that it was in great shape mechanically and good shape cosmetically (rock chips in the hood and a small dent in one door).