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Exactly what I thought watching the movie but i'm just a dumb Marine. That and why didnt you bring a couple claymores and a SAW? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
It's fairly easy even then to get out of that one, once they were soft compromised. Send your communicator and another man for security up the mountain to make comms and provide a SITREP, with an immediate request for exfil, while the 2 other men guard the goat herders. Exactly what I thought watching the movie but i'm just a dumb Marine. That and why didnt you bring a couple claymores and a SAW? They also brought inadequate comms. Shit's heavy yo. |
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They also brought inadequate comms. Shit's heavy yo. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It's fairly easy even then to get out of that one, once they were soft compromised. Send your communicator and another man for security up the mountain to make comms and provide a SITREP, with an immediate request for exfil, while the 2 other men guard the goat herders. Exactly what I thought watching the movie but i'm just a dumb Marine. That and why didnt you bring a couple claymores and a SAW? They also brought inadequate comms. Shit's heavy yo. in my day comms had wires attached to them or were mounted in vehicles, so I wouldnt know about that. |
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Exactly what I thought watching the movie but i'm just a dumb Marine. That and why didnt you bring a couple claymores and a SAW? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
It's fairly easy even then to get out of that one, once they were soft compromised. Send your communicator and another man for security up the mountain to make comms and provide a SITREP, with an immediate request for exfil, while the 2 other men guard the goat herders. Exactly what I thought watching the movie but i'm just a dumb Marine. That and why didnt you bring a couple claymores and a SAW? The STA Platoon guys were planning on going in heavy, with a mission support site overwatching the R&S teams. The MSS would have continuous comms, something the SEALs lost once they got behind the crest. Basic soldiering skills totally absent, overconfidence in a flimsy/non-existent skill set base, and bad interpretation of SOF doctrine got many people killed who didn't need to die. A senior SEAL petty officer that piped in on this said about as much. I've heard the details of Marcus's AAR/debrief, and I literally could have had one of my E-4's plan that mission better in his sleep, as well as train the SEALs properly, only they can't and won't be trained. They're already "the best". |
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All a side product of underestimating people who have lived and fought in those mountains for centuries as dumb dirty natives while simultaneously thinking you're immortal.
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The STA Platoon guys were planning on going in heavy, with a mission support site overwatching the R&S teams. The MSS would have continuous comms, something the SEALs lost once they got behind the crest. Basic soldiering skills totally absent, overconfidence in a flimsy/non-existent skill set base, and bad interpretation of SOF doctrine got many people killed who didn't need to die. A senior SEAL petty officer that piped in on this said about as much. I've heard the details of Marcus's AAR/debrief, and I literally could have had one of my E-4's plan that mission better in his sleep, as well as train the SEALs properly, only they can't and won't be trained. They're already "the best". View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It's fairly easy even then to get out of that one, once they were soft compromised. Send your communicator and another man for security up the mountain to make comms and provide a SITREP, with an immediate request for exfil, while the 2 other men guard the goat herders. Exactly what I thought watching the movie but i'm just a dumb Marine. That and why didnt you bring a couple claymores and a SAW? The STA Platoon guys were planning on going in heavy, with a mission support site overwatching the R&S teams. The MSS would have continuous comms, something the SEALs lost once they got behind the crest. Basic soldiering skills totally absent, overconfidence in a flimsy/non-existent skill set base, and bad interpretation of SOF doctrine got many people killed who didn't need to die. A senior SEAL petty officer that piped in on this said about as much. I've heard the details of Marcus's AAR/debrief, and I literally could have had one of my E-4's plan that mission better in his sleep, as well as train the SEALs properly, only they can't and won't be trained. They're already "the best". They're spoiled, frankly, basically limitless funds and the Navy's golden boys. |
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This didn't turn in to the SEAL hand job that we usually get here in GD.
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I had to stop the movie a couple of times and take a break. It was tough to watch knowing what was going to happen. Brutal. View Quote Yea me too, the first time i just left the room when the CH47 went down. I didnt finish the movie until recently. It was an awful situation, it breaks my heart to see that stuff because its just to recent and in a lot of ways we still have our men in the field there. |
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in my day comms had wires attached to them or were mounted in vehicles, so I wouldnt know about that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It's fairly easy even then to get out of that one, once they were soft compromised. Send your communicator and another man for security up the mountain to make comms and provide a SITREP, with an immediate request for exfil, while the 2 other men guard the goat herders. Exactly what I thought watching the movie but i'm just a dumb Marine. That and why didnt you bring a couple claymores and a SAW? They also brought inadequate comms. Shit's heavy yo. in my day comms had wires attached to them or were mounted in vehicles, so I wouldnt know about that. You can do so much with the MBITR. It's a heaven send for dismounted reconnaissance commandos. It helps if you bring more than one though. In LRS, we carried 4 radio systems per 6 man Recon Team. With MBITR's, everyone can carry a radio. It will do SATCOM, FM, Freq hopping, team internal, and a bunch of other modes that will go over most peoples' heads, and is 1/8 the weight/size of legacy systems that could only do one of those modes. Basically, every aspect of the way they executed the mission, from training, planning, infil, actions on, compromise, and total failure was a series of screw ups that are genuinely painful for a professional to look over in detail. |
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You can do so much with the MBITR. It's a heaven send for dismounted reconnaissance commandos. It helps if you bring more than one though. In LRS, we carried 4 radio systems per 6 man Recon Team. With MBITR's, everyone can carry a radio. It will do SATCOM, FM, Freq hopping, team internal, and a bunch of other modes that will go over most peoples' heads, and is 1/8 the weight/size of legacy systems that could only do one of those modes. Basically, every aspect of the way they executed the mission, from training, planning, infil, actions on, compromise, and total failure was a series of screw ups that are genuinely painful for a professional to look over in detail. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It's fairly easy even then to get out of that one, once they were soft compromised. Send your communicator and another man for security up the mountain to make comms and provide a SITREP, with an immediate request for exfil, while the 2 other men guard the goat herders. Exactly what I thought watching the movie but i'm just a dumb Marine. That and why didnt you bring a couple claymores and a SAW? They also brought inadequate comms. Shit's heavy yo. in my day comms had wires attached to them or were mounted in vehicles, so I wouldnt know about that. You can do so much with the MBITR. It's a heaven send for dismounted reconnaissance commandos. It helps if you bring more than one though. In LRS, we carried 4 radio systems per 6 man Recon Team. With MBITR's, everyone can carry a radio. It will do SATCOM, FM, Freq hopping, team internal, and a bunch of other modes that will go over most peoples' heads, and is 1/8 the weight/size of legacy systems that could only do one of those modes. Basically, every aspect of the way they executed the mission, from training, planning, infil, actions on, compromise, and total failure was a series of screw ups that are genuinely painful for a professional to look over in detail. We rolled 117, 148, and 150. Now they have the 152 which I wish we'd had. |
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movie may have been fiction in some parts....but those pictures at the end are real....real lives...real families....real kids.....that is the important part of the movie... View Quote The men who died were heroes for sure. Some people view the whole thing as dishonest and therefore disrespectful to those that died. Very similar to the Chris Kyle situation. I try to stay out of it because some people judge us non mil pretty harshly for having a opinion on such things regardless of how well informed of not we are. |
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I read the book back maybe four years ago and there were a couple scenes in the movie I didn't remember from the book. Such as the firefight in the village at the end. I just watched it for the first time last week and I thought it was terrific. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile View Quote The firefight at the end is a Hollywood drama, according to Wikipedia. The hand over was relatively uneventful. |
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Nope.. ETA: Quoted:
The only problem is that none of it went down that way at all. The movie is based on the book, and the book was ghost written by a sensationalist British military author who sat down with Marcus in one, unrecorded session for the material. For those of us who spent years in the reconnaissance community, who have heard the details of Marcus's own AAR/debrief post recovery (by Army elements of SOCOM), there is no mention of most of what is written in the book. For starters, Ahmad Shah never was responsible for the deaths of 20 Marines. There weren't even 20 Marines KIA in Afghanistan by July, 2005. There were 9 USMC fatalities as of the commencement of Operation Red Wings in June of 2005, which The Lone Survivor doesn't even correctly name on the book cover. If you doubt this, here is the list of US fatalities, not even just KIA, but fatalities from accidents as well: Casualties OEF Afghanistan Ahmad Shah wasn't even a High Value Target. He was a Target of Interest that 3/3 Marines had planned to pinpoint with one of their recon teams from the STA Platoon. Instead, the mission was given to the SEALs, and they planned and executed it horrendously. They failed before they even got to Afghanistan. Ahmad Shah had a group consisting of 7 other fighters, 8 total with him. They were the only ones who ambushed the SEALs after they were compromised. The compromise of the team was a textbook lesson in how to do the opposite of everything you learn as a Reconnaissance commando, as well as leadership failures all the way up to the CJSOTF. They didn't have a no-commo plan, they only took 2 commo devices, an MBITR and the SAT Phone, which is an emergency layer that should come after 2 other layers of radios. They didn't have a mission support site, no commo/terrain mitigation plan, no camouflage/hide site, rigged out for CQB rather than SR, took only 5.56 small arms including SPR's?, emplaced their OP on a ledge surrounded by high ground, with absolutely nowhere to E&E from, and most likely were asleep when the goat herders walked up on them, bells and all on the goats' necks. It's fairly easy even then to get out of that one, once they were soft compromised. Send your communicator and another man for security up the mountain to make comms and provide a SITREP, with an immediate request for exfil, while the 2 other men guard the goat herders. If they had stayed off the stupid goat trails, complete with goat scat, they never would have been caught racked out in the first place. Even from the perspective of a first-term Recon soldier in an Army Scout Platoon, there are so many things they did wrong before they even got there that are painfully clear to see. For someone who has spent time in several recon units spanning 10 years, including the leadership and detailed mission planning pieces of the pie, this whole episode makes you ask why they didn't have the proper training to conduct a pretty basic operation. Unfortunately, it comes as no surprise for those of us who have deployed as part of a CJSOTF, or worked with the SEALs in a professional capacity. If you really want to get misty eyed, think of the highly sensitive equipment that was recovered by Ahmad Shah and his men: * Ruggedized laptop with intact hard drive, to include detailed imagery of sensitive US locations in the region that had no business even being on the mission * MBITR radio * 3 SOPMOD configured M4A1 carbines with Own The Night accessories, 2 with M203 Grenade Launchers * Night Vision Devices * Spotting scope How many lives were lost, and how much additional effort had to be sacrificed in the recovery? For starters, the ad hoc QRF and the MH-47 crew were all killed within hours. The equally big picture consequences revolve around that hard drive and the weapons. |
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I realize that liberties were taken in the making of the movie but the scenes where
they are endlessly tumbling down a mountain was a little much. There was a picture posted about where it took place and I realize it was very steep terrain but I still find it hard to belive that serious bodily injury (broken bones, serious head injuries) were not sustained. In any event it was a great movie. |
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The firefight at the end is a Hollywood drama, according to Wikipedia. The hand over was relatively uneventful. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I read the book back maybe four years ago and there were a couple scenes in the movie I didn't remember from the book. Such as the firefight in the village at the end. I just watched it for the first time last week and I thought it was terrific. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile The firefight at the end is a Hollywood drama, according to Wikipedia. The hand over was relatively uneventful. Most of the movie was hollywood SEAL drama |
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I don't suppose it was really an army of bad guys they were against either.
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Some here might remember that some of our soliders were compromised during a "recon" mission during the first Gulf War where they were
discovered by goat herders as I recall. The soliders were faced with the question of killing kids with a suppressed handgun or not. They decided not to engage the kids and subsequently were ratted out and became engaged in a fearce firefight. Their only savior was from air support dumping ordnance "danger close" as it was said in the documentary. |
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Some here might remember that some of our soliders were compromised during a "recon" mission during the first Gulf War where they were discovered by goat herders as I recall. The soliders were faced with the question of killing kids with a suppressed handgun or not. They decided not to engage the kids and subsequently were rated out and became engaged in a fearce firefight. Their only savior was from air support dumping ordnance "danger close" as it was said in the documentary. View Quote Those guys were British SAS. |
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Quoted: Once they left, the locals would have started screaming and shouting. Still alerting the enemy. So, why not take them with you? Would you want to herd uncooperative civilians up a 12,000 foot mountain to get comms? Kidnapping locals dose not sit well with commanders, same as murdering them. They were looking at a no win situation, NO MATTER WHAT. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: One question I've always wanted to ask: Why not zip tie the dudes together sothat, although they could move, you would slow them WAY down and get the heck outta dodge? I understand they didn't want to tie them to trees because of wolves, etc. Once they left, the locals would have started screaming and shouting. Still alerting the enemy. So, why not take them with you? Would you want to herd uncooperative civilians up a 12,000 foot mountain to get comms? Kidnapping locals dose not sit well with commanders, same as murdering them. They were looking at a no win situation, NO MATTER WHAT. |
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Some here might remember that some of our soliders were compromised during a "recon" mission during the first Gulf War where they were discovered by goat herders as I recall. The soliders were faced with the question of killing kids with a suppressed handgun or not. They decided not to engage the kids and subsequently were rated out and became engaged in a fearce firefight. Their only savior was from air support dumping ordnance "danger close" as it was said in the documentary. Those guys were British SAS. I know the guys you are thinking of but I'm pretty sure the one's he is talking about were Americans. I remember the one guy didn't have a way to identify his position to the jets overhead so he used a mirror of something reflective to signal the pilot as he turned upside down and was looking at the ground. then the pilot got fix on them and drop his bombs "danger close". idk, I could be mistaken it's been I while since I saw the story |
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Some here might remember that some of our soliders were compromised during a "recon" mission during the first Gulf War where they were discovered by goat herders as I recall. The soliders were faced with the question of killing kids with a suppressed handgun or not. They decided not to engage the kids and subsequently were rated out and became engaged in a fearce firefight. Their only savior was from air support dumping ordnance "danger close" as it was said in the documentary. View Quote Bravo two zero. And The one that got away. |
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I don't suppose it was really an army of bad guys they were against either. View Quote The number changes every time it's spoken of. I think the original AAR's put it at 8-10. Shah was a fucking nobody until this incident occurred. He was the next guy in line after we fucked up the rest of the ACM chain of command in that AO during the winter. |
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I see Marky Mark got most of the cast of Entourage into the movie.
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I realize that liberties were taken in the making of the movie but the scenes where they are endlessly tumbling down a mountain was a little much. There was picture posted about where it took place and I realize it was very steep terrain but I still find it hard to belive that serious bodily injury (broken bones, serious head injuries) were not sustained. In any event it was a great movie. View Quote I agree. I have a buddy who fell backwards onto some rocks from a distance of about three and a half feet. He broke four ribs. |
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I don't buy anymore "true story" books written by former military personnel anymore.
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I've met Marcus and listened to him speak about that day. He carries a lot of demons about him and that fight. Hope he finds peace some day. I watched this earlier today. He speaks to the point about the discussion about whether or not to kill the goat herders. That part alone is worth the watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5m9CMT_1bU View Quote I've never seen him speak, but my buddy has.. That man lives with demons.. |
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I've never seen him speak, but my buddy has.. That man lives with demons.. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I've met Marcus and listened to him speak about that day. He carries a lot of demons about him and that fight. Hope he finds peace some day. I watched this earlier today. He speaks to the point about the discussion about whether or not to kill the goat herders. That part alone is worth the watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5m9CMT_1bU I've never seen him speak, but my buddy has.. That man lives with demons.. No more than anyone else who has lost brothers in arms. He loves the spotlight though, that much is clear. |
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That's smart because they're almost all full of shit, you may as well read pure fiction books. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I don't buy anymore "true story" books written by former military personnel anymore. That's smart because they're almost all full of shit, you may as well read pure fiction books. I haven't heard that about Fearless, The Mission the Men and Me, No Easy Day or The Hunt for Bin Laden. They are written about or by squared away guys from what I gather. All are great reads too. |
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I haven't heard that about Fearless, The Mission the Men and Me, No Easy Day or The Hunt for Bin Laden. They are written about or by squared away guys from what I gather. All are great reads too. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I don't buy anymore "true story" books written by former military personnel anymore. That's smart because they're almost all full of shit, you may as well read pure fiction books. I haven't heard that about Fearless, The Mission the Men and Me, No Easy Day or The Hunt for Bin Laden. They are written about or by squared away guys from what I gather. All are great reads too. My opinion, they're fun reads, but they're seldom honest accounts, people who step out of SOF and into story telling are usually, wait for it, story tellers. |
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The scene where Axe used his pistol till he ran out of ammo. Fuck
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My opinion, they're fun reads, but they're seldom honest accounts, people who step out of SOF and into story telling are usually, wait for it, story tellers. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I don't buy anymore "true story" books written by former military personnel anymore. That's smart because they're almost all full of shit, you may as well read pure fiction books. I haven't heard that about Fearless, The Mission the Men and Me, No Easy Day or The Hunt for Bin Laden. They are written about or by squared away guys from what I gather. All are great reads too. My opinion, they're fun reads, but they're seldom honest accounts, people who step out of SOF and into story telling are usually, wait for it, story tellers. Ok |
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Good book, apparently the author took some creative liberties.
The real story is a bit more "real" and that usually doesn't sell as well. Didn't see the movie.
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I haven't heard that about Fearless, The Mission the Men and Me, No Easy Day or The Hunt for Bin Laden. They are written about or by squared away guys from what I gather. All are great reads too. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I don't buy anymore "true story" books written by former military personnel anymore. That's smart because they're almost all full of shit, you may as well read pure fiction books. I haven't heard that about Fearless, The Mission the Men and Me, No Easy Day or The Hunt for Bin Laden. They are written about or by squared away guys from what I gather. All are great reads too. And "The Only Thing Worth Dying For". |
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Quoted: Yeah, too bad the producers allowed Beretta to pay to place their pistol in the movie instead of making it realistic and have them carry P226s. Plus, that scene is not what really happened. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: The scene where Axe used his pistol till he ran out of ammo. Fuck Yeah, too bad the producers allowed Beretta to pay to place their pistol in the movie instead of making it realistic and have them carry P226s. Plus, that scene is not what really happened. I know .....
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Movie was all right. I just don't believe the constant falling down 100 foot cliffs and getting shot a million times and then more falling down cliffs and these guys surviving most of it.
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I don't buy anymore "true story" books written by former military personnel anymore. That's smart because they're almost all full of shit, you may as well read pure fiction books. I haven't heard that about Fearless, The Mission the Men and Me, No Easy Day or The Hunt for Bin Laden. They are written about or by squared away guys from what I gather. All are great reads too. And "The Only Thing Worth Dying For". Not exactly the same type of book but was by a SEAL that I really liked was "The Heart and the Fist" by Eric Greitiens |
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I've never seen him speak, but my buddy has.. That man lives with demons.. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I've met Marcus and listened to him speak about that day. He carries a lot of demons about him and that fight. Hope he finds peace some day. I watched this earlier today. He speaks to the point about the discussion about whether or not to kill the goat herders. That part alone is worth the watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5m9CMT_1bU I've never seen him speak, but my buddy has.. That man lives with demons.. He lives in my town. His wife and children have done wonders for him. He's a solid dude. |
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