Owned 3 Glocks, 17,19,21 and have not been that impressed with any of them.  I picked up an MP pro core which I really like.  So far with about 1k rounds through the MP gets my vote, right up there with my Sigs.

QFT

I am an armorer on both pistols, qualified to carry both, own both, have extensively used both over the years--my experiences are fully in concordance with everything SGM Lamb stated in this video.

A wet paper bag would have a crisper reset than my M&P 9's trigger had. That, removing the rear sight to strip,  and magazine availability pretty much killed it for me. After four years I switch to the Glock 19 with zero regrets.

Why detail strip the slide?  I did it when I installed my Apex kit...but beyond that, I can't see much reason to do it.  I've seen duty weapons go their entire service life without it and as long as they hadn't gotten submerged, it wasn't a problem.

This is a ringing endorsement. Thanks for your input Doc.

 

Shoot enough Combloc 9mm ammo, and you wind up with all sorts of bits of socialism and brass and red stuff in the firing pin channel. Nice to mop it out every so often.


*shrug*

Neat guns, and I hope S&W sells a lot of them, but it was a stupid design decision to require removing the rear sights to do a full strip.

The only time I see glocks have trouble is when people "think" thwy are improving things with lame aftermarket replacement parts.

I use a variety of mixed gen mags/followers/guns and they all work great.

I like mine just fine but I have to agree with this.



Nice to see DocGKR post - appreciate his knowledge.



 

The 9mm Shield my wife has shows visible tooling marks on the inside of the slide. Couldn't find anything like that with my Glock.

Yup. And they look about as good as a brick as well.

I'll never discount Glock's effectiveness as good tools for the job, but there are 5 M&Ps in my safe. And 0 Glocks.

Put an Apex DCAEK kit in my M&P.  

$100 later the trigger still sucked.  

Sold it.  

Bought Glocks.

Bought an M&P45, installed the DCAEK and never took out my G21. Sold the G21 and G22 to fund both an M&P40 and 40c.
His comments on the G22 are spot on regarding ammo issues with 180gr and anything hanging off the front. Reports on this problem are very well known and no longer disputed.

I will disagree with Kyle regarding accuracy. The M&P is more accurate when guns get dirty. The Glock slide lock will crud up and shift the POI very dramatically if not cleaned. I've seen police trade ins with slide locks that were so gummed up and the rear sight was nearly off the slide.

How many failures have the visible tooling marks caused?

Good question. I just find it "ironic" that a Glock fan would focus on something of probable aesthetic-only value... while ignoring how fugly THE GUN itself is.  

I don't get it. You guys shooting matches with your Glocks? I did smith my full-size M&P to get a lighter, more consistent pull. But it didn't improve my accuracy all that much -- especially not enough to matter at self-defense ranges in self-defense situations. As long as I'm consistently head and COM centered with my shots at 3-25 yards... I'm happy. Anything more than that demands a rifle anyways (not that I haven't had plenty of fun with with ridiculous holdovers on various .44s, .45s, and 9mms shooting objects at 100+ yards)

Yes.  USPSA and IDPA.  Too broke to add 3 gun to the mix, or I'd be shooting that too.

Then they have passed the drop test. Great, score one for the M&P

It wasn't so much the pull as it was the lack of a tactile reset.

There actual is a US military organization in process of acquire them for duty usage

And he gave accuracy and reliability to the Glock which is really all I care about. In 9mm which is what I've standardized on.

I have owned both M&P's and Glocks and the M&P's are the ones still in my safe.  I don't like Glocks for three reasons.  

1.  Grip angle is not comfortable or natural to me.

2.  Glocks feel like I am trying to point a brick down range.

3.  I have experienced more FTF's with Glocks than with the M&P.  As a matter of fact, after thousands of rounds I have never had an issue with any of my M&P's where I have had several stovepipes with Glocks.  This includes shooting lots of steel cased commie ammo.

..... It's a $325 gun..... not a $3,000 1911.

I'm a tool and die maker, I have no issues with the fit and finish of my Shield or any other that I have seen.

So exactly how does the average Delta Operator sight in a fixed site hand gun for an average 21 ft engagement[://  I wish I were a sniper with a hand gun, drove a performance car, had a model girl friend and never ate ate chain restaurants like some Arfcomers

I have 5 M&Ps.  My wife carries a Glock and it shoots very well.  Either are a great gun.

By putting a Trijicon RMR on it along with tall adjustable irons.  

Pistols get zero'd just like rifles.

He's full of it.

Can anyone elaborate on the M&P accuracy issue? I have an older one with no dimples on the barrel. I haven't shot it yet to know if it's accurate or not. How common was the problem?

That can be easily fixed. Bend the trigger bar in towards the sear from the double 90* near the slide lock lever. You don't have to do it a ton, picture is an over-exaggeration. The trigger bar loop tucking back under the sear is what gives the feel of reset in the M&P, buy bending it in you are making it a more forceful jump back under the sear. S&W has tried to accomplish the same thing by adding a notch to the slide lock lever on that side.



 

Meh . . . I think he's trying to sell M&Ps.

Own both, like the M&P better (after the Apex upgrades).  Both will get the job done as far as I'm concerned.

Quoted for those of us with the latest chrome update (linky no worky)

 

Own both.  Quality guns that will get the job done.

I carry the Glocks  but would feel very capable carrying the M&P.

Nice.

I like Glocks but the M&P is an improvement.

I have M&Ps from 2009, 11, 12, and 13. Eight in total.  Seven 9mms and one .45.  The .45 is a laser, has a factory barrel, easily outshoots my Glock 20.  The 9s are all fine with the exception of my Pro.  The Pro 5" slide would jump 1/32" every time the sear dropped and I could barely keep all rounds on an IPSC target at 25 yards.  There was an abnormal amount of clearance in the slide to frame fit of that gun.  Since I was turning it into an Open gun, I just welded up and reground the locking block frame rails and the problem went away.


I don't buy the "early unlocking" myth.  Yes, early 9mms had a poor choice of twist.  But no high speed camera video was ever shown, to my knowledge, early unlocking and barrel movement during firing.  My Glock 20 unlock earlier in slide movement than any of my M&Ps, and has no accuracy issues.  

It's my opinion that M&P accuracy problems stem from a combination of factors: Poor twist rate in 9mm (too slow for 115gr, changed in 2012 I believe), people used to shooting Glocks attempting to shoot their M&P in the same fashion without becoming familar with the different grip angle and trigger (ie, they have learned to shoot a Glock fast and accurately, attempt to shoot an M&P fast without the tactile reset they're used to, and the grip angle they're used to), and a few lemons like every company produces throwing odd cases of actual mechanical issues into the mix.

When I first switched from XDs to M&Ps, I couldn't get them to shoot well at all until I realized I was doing the 2nd thing, switched the backstrap, started over at the basics and retrained my grip/trigger press.  I shoot them fine now.  

I also have about every barrel combination you could hope to test.  I have factory barrels with the old twist and new twist, I have KKM barrels in 4.25 and 5", I have Storm Lake barrels in 4.25 and 5" and I even have a .40 slide that I converted to 9mm and will run with any brand/make 9mm barrel I have.

The only one that shows demonstrable accuracy improvement is the Storm Lake 5" I welded and reground for a tighter slide/muzzle fit in my Open Pro.

ETA:  I don't think M&Ps are better than Glocks.  I think they have some improved features when compared to Glocks, and the sum value of those features are a minor refinement on the striker fired polymer framed pistol, and not something that puts them head and shoulders above the rest of the market.  Glocks are excellent handguns.  I even think XD/XDMs are excellent handguns.  I just prefer the M&P.

Alright, This seems like a good time for me to explain why H&K's are the best.

I recently saw the take down bar crack in half on a relatively new G19.

I carried a G19 for 5 years. It was my baby. My go-to gun. My best friend.

A buddy showed up at the range with his stock M&P9 and let me run a box of ammo through it.

I shot noticeably faster and made tighter groups with a pistol that I was totally unfamiliar with.

I sold my beloved G19.

I now own three M&P 9s, a 9mm Shield and an M&P9C.

For me it had to do with shooting performance. I would have been considered by most to be a Glock Fanboi, and I probably was. I do love Glock triggers right out of the box. The newer factory M&P triggers are much better than before.

And the fact that Glock refuses to make a single stack 9mm is disappointing.

Me too.

They made me purchase M&Ps.

The M&P9C is pretty damned close in size especially with the pinky extension on the mag.

My C is my EDC gun in an Incog riding AWIB. It's slightly less bulky than my G19.

The early factory trigger had a "false reset" which was a PITA to learn how to use, especially after getting used to the crisp reset of a factory or slightly modified Glock trigger.
The newer factory M&P triggers are impressive. I think they eliminated the reset issues.

Glock is very good at "Admit nothing, deny everything, make counter accusations" when it comes to systemic problems in their product line.

S&W is well known for being public regarding their issues and public about the rolling changes they make.

Both guns are functional and practical equals. Glock is further along in its development cycle and had more aftermarket support simply because it's been around longer and was the first major player in its product class.

This wins for the silliest post of the month award.

There's a SHIT TON of aftermarket Glock trigger parts out there.

The NY Trigger is designed for that, but not any of the other triggers in the Glock lineup.

Do you have any open source information for this?

I think the thing is there is a known setup for the near perfect striker trigger, and it's for the M&P. Theres not really much competition in the m&p trigger realm either.

Glock on the other hand have a plethora of options, which many users overwhelming describe as "still basically the same trigger".

I think the Glock sear/striker design and needing to slightly cock the striker to fire really keep the trigger from being truely fantastic outside of highly modified and tuned competition setups. Glock triggers can be cleaned up and lightened, but it still will be the same trigger.

I was in the same boat with my M&P 45. I wanted to like that pistol but could never get past the poor trigger. Sold that and my 9mm version, decided to stick with my Glocks. My summer carry is a Shield. But the last few times at the range I kept getting a dead trigger from false resets. Went back to carrying a G19. Hoping Glock releases a single stack 9mm and I can get rid of the Shield also.