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What couldn't you purchase? Has something changed recently? Not only can you buy them direct from S&W, vendors like Speed Shooter Specialties have nearly every single component for sale. If they're out of stock/behind in production that's one thing, but to say they're not available is not true. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Good luck obtaining M&P factory spare parts. Yup. I learned that one the hard way. What couldn't you purchase? Has something changed recently? Not only can you buy them direct from S&W, vendors like Speed Shooter Specialties have nearly every single component for sale. If they're out of stock/behind in production that's one thing, but to say they're not available is not true. I missread. Lumpy said "M&P factory spare parts" but what I read was "S&W factory spare parts". I had issues obtaining some parts for an older model that I wanted to fix for a friend. They refused to sell me the parts. They said I could send the gun in, and that's it. |
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You didn't watch the video, did you. He specifically said that the M&P's had accuracy issues, and that he installed aftermarket barrels in all of his to deal with that. The M&P has never had a horrible trigger. It's a great factory trigger. A horrible trigger would be a Smith & Wesson Sigma, or a New York trigger in a Glock. For my carry M&P, I have the stock trigger. For my fullsize, I installed an Apex. On Glocks, the factory connector is a good base to start with, then carefully polished. I use both guns, but I prefer the ergonomics of the M&P over the Glock without reservation. I'm used to the Glock, having shot it since the 1980's, so I have that memory of what I need to do when I pick one up, but I personally need to make frame modifications on Glocks in order to shoot them in high volume, otherwise my distal metacarpal gets trashed. My last several pistol purchases have all been M&P's, and the only reasons I have to look at Glock now are the 10mm options. There are new things happening with pistol calibers, so I'm going to invest in other calibers for CCW moving forward. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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As much as I think Kyle is a good instructor I have to disagree. At best it's a case by case basis on comparison. On the whole M&Ps have had multiple issues including horridly bad triggers, inaccuracy, early unlocking barrels, and iffy slide locks. Granted some .40 Glocks have issues cycling with lights and the early Gen 4s had extractor issues, but on the whole the Glock platform has been much more reliable historically. Also the Gen4 Glocks have a beavertail and are made in the USA. And he had to know all of that info. The fact that he chose to ignore it raises some eyebrows. You didn't watch the video, did you. He specifically said that the M&P's had accuracy issues, and that he installed aftermarket barrels in all of his to deal with that. The M&P has never had a horrible trigger. It's a great factory trigger. A horrible trigger would be a Smith & Wesson Sigma, or a New York trigger in a Glock. For my carry M&P, I have the stock trigger. For my fullsize, I installed an Apex. On Glocks, the factory connector is a good base to start with, then carefully polished. I use both guns, but I prefer the ergonomics of the M&P over the Glock without reservation. I'm used to the Glock, having shot it since the 1980's, so I have that memory of what I need to do when I pick one up, but I personally need to make frame modifications on Glocks in order to shoot them in high volume, otherwise my distal metacarpal gets trashed. My last several pistol purchases have all been M&P's, and the only reasons I have to look at Glock now are the 10mm options. There are new things happening with pistol calibers, so I'm going to invest in other calibers for CCW moving forward. LRRPF52, I have highlited in red the comment that I was specifically agreeing with about Kyle's bias. |
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Every competition guy that i have heard that is a non tactical timmy says that "m and p" trigger and accuracy sucks. Glocks work. For some reason, all the newest tactical timmies want to use the " military and police" . Not sure why. View Quote Would you also refer to Frank Proctor as a "tactical timmy"? He likes the M&P a lot as well. |
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Even for the guns that are made in the USA (US Glock's have been assembled in Smyrna Georgia longer than most of Arfcom has been alive.)...
Where do the profits go? Glock has had a very shady past when it comes to finances, bribery of LE Agencies at SHOT, shell corporations in Panama & Luxembourg to avoid US and Austrian taxes, false flag assassination attempts on Glock himself by the guy that managed his Luxembourg profit laundering operation (who then went to prison for a long, long time), and a very strange history with evading any type of accounting of his company. If your decision is based on these types of arguments, the financial, support the US economy, US employees, and keeping profits inside the US, then it's an easy decision to go with Smith. Or if you want the Glock form and familiarity, you can put together a gun with US after-market frames, slides, barrels, trigger components, and small parts from Glock. I went with M&P back in 2007 because the gun felt great in my hand, the barrel sat low in the frame, it has very intuitive controls, good fit/feel/finish, and very well-made mags. My first Glock 23 shot 2 feet low at 15 yards, with no way to adjust it, and the rear sight solution looked like an Enfield sight set for 1300m to get it zeroed. Glock went through plenty of teething issues, it's just that most of you weren't born yet to remember them. After passing the company off to his daughter, it seems that a whole new set of teething issues have been reintroduced, which tells me some institutional knowledge has been lost via bad management of the company. |
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"This guy" has more time on a Glock than you could ever possibly hope to have, even if you got sponsored by Glock and three ammo makers...no really. The video is a good perspective on the two types of guns from someone who is more of a shooter than a gear guy, but still demands good gear. He is equally deadly with both, and I can attest to that after having competed with him. For you shooters that are new to all of this, do some research into Kyle's background before you pass judgment and think he is just "some guy" who is biased. http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh22bg4ItS1qc5evlo1_500.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Only the .40 cal glocks had issues with weapon mounted lights and I believe that has since been adressed. They are both excellent gun but this guy is definitely biased. I'd take either but ended up buying the glock. I do plan on owning a m&p one day when funds allow "This guy" has more time on a Glock than you could ever possibly hope to have, even if you got sponsored by Glock and three ammo makers...no really. The video is a good perspective on the two types of guns from someone who is more of a shooter than a gear guy, but still demands good gear. He is equally deadly with both, and I can attest to that after having competed with him. For you shooters that are new to all of this, do some research into Kyle's background before you pass judgment and think he is just "some guy" who is biased. http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh22bg4ItS1qc5evlo1_500.jpg No shit, this "guy" has probably killed more people than polio and really shoots a lot. But I still like Glocks! |
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I like my Glocks. If I was just starting out now, I'd be doing M&P
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What? A Shield with no rifling? Sounds like a thread a Glock 42 fanboi would make View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What I got from that is that they are pretty much a tie. I've never heard about lights causing a problem on Glocks before and I don't want to have to change the barrel on a new gun to get accuracy. That's starting to get into the problems of tuning a 1911. I'll stick with my Glocks. I have heard but have never seen the light issue on the Glock. I did notice he has an older M&P with the old trigger that came factory with 9mm barrels with poor twist rates. I wonder what his take on accuracy of the M&P would be with the new factory barrels with the updated twist rates. I posted on here many of times of my problems with M&P9 accuracy issues. I tried to like them. For two years I carried that gun. The recent shield thread with no rifling is icing on the cake. Back to Glock for me. What? A Shield with no rifling? Sounds like a thread a Glock 42 fanboi would make Or, I bought a Shield .40 which has been at S&W for almost two weeks now because the barrel wasn't rifled |
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I have hear others whose advice I trust say similar things, Glocks in 9mm and M&Ps in .40. I think the issues with Glock .40s and 9mm M&Ps have been overblown to a degree but there have been some issues. I've never had any issues with any of my Glocks or M&Ps other than a bad magazine spring in my M&P45. Most of the rest is personal preference.
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I went out and bought a new M&P .45 and .45C, both of them had feedramp issues at the range, multiple FTF's up to 750 rounds before I said "Fuck this" and WENT BACK to Glock. Best move I ever made. They've probably ironed out the issue's, but fool me once.................................
Remember this: Without Glock the M&P would never exist. The M&P exists because the coped the Glock to the maximum, and simply tweaked the area's that they thought would make the M&P a better gun. It's not as much evolution as it is "Hey, copy this, but not too much". I've standardized my load out with 2 9mm's & 2 .45 ACP's, tons of parts, mags & ammo. So if one goes down I have parts that fix em all. That's what is called efficiency, everyone should strive to have a load out of whatever they have in a similar manner. |
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M&P = designed by gun makers to equip police and combat soldiers Glock = designed by a shovelmaker to equip conscripted parade marchers View Quote Oh you done it now. Don't post "Honest there's nothing glock chambers that's suitable for big bear defense", you'll hear someone talk about running FMJs in his glock19 being "just fine for that" Some people can't handle the fact that "pretty darn good for a bunch of things" =/= "absolutely perfect at all things, with zero room for improvement and there are no alternative choices" |
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I am a glock guy...and in another 400 rounds, I will be an HK VP9 guy.
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When you get to that level of excellence (referring to the guns; Lamb's sterling reputation needs nothing I can provide) just pick one. Either will serve you as long as you need them to, as well as you expect them to. I've gotten over my anti-Glock mentality. They are good guns. So are M&Ps. View Quote Well said, but I do agree with Lamb and his conclusions |
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I have one Glock. A M31. Only one failure with it. Stovepiped one day. Just once.
The M&Ps? I have 2 FS M&Ps. Multiple failures to fire with both guns and the .357 SIG barrel (factory S&W) keyholes the same reloads the Glock shoots just fine. As much as I don't like that Glock, it still beats the M&Ps for reliability and it beats the .357 SIG M&P for accuracy. The 9MM M&P, when it goes band is more accurate than the Glock. Don't the Glock magazines have a metal liner between the inside and outside plastic layers? Mine seem to have them, at lease up at the feed lips. My M&Ps are failed experiments in plastic guns. I've moved on to CZ's and they are more reliable and more accurate than my M&Ps. |
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I didn't think he was biased... Not a bad synopsis really.
His only 2 errors were. 1. Now with 4th gen Glocks you get a beaver-tail. At that point your issue becomes Glock grip angle/hump vs MP Grip Angle and which one you prefer. 2. The light malfunction issue with Glocks are user induced... When you tighten a light down with a screwdriver/allen wrench it causes issues. If you hand tighten its fine. |
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I've always liked kyle lambs videos.
He really knows his shit, he's fast as fuck, and he seems a lot more humble than some of the other douchetards like Larry Vickers out there. |
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"This guy" has more time on a Glock than you could ever possibly hope to have, even if you got sponsored by Glock and three ammo makers...no really. The video is a good perspective on the two types of guns from someone who is more of a shooter than a gear guy, but still demands good gear. He is equally deadly with both, and I can attest to that after having competed with him. For you shooters that are new to all of this, do some research into Kyle's background before you pass judgment and think he is just "some guy" who is biased. http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh22bg4ItS1qc5evlo1_500.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Only the .40 cal glocks had issues with weapon mounted lights and I believe that has since been adressed. They are both excellent gun but this guy is definitely biased. I'd take either but ended up buying the glock. I do plan on owning a m&p one day when funds allow "This guy" has more time on a Glock than you could ever possibly hope to have, even if you got sponsored by Glock and three ammo makers...no really. The video is a good perspective on the two types of guns from someone who is more of a shooter than a gear guy, but still demands good gear. He is equally deadly with both, and I can attest to that after having competed with him. For you shooters that are new to all of this, do some research into Kyle's background before you pass judgment and think he is just "some guy" who is biased. http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh22bg4ItS1qc5evlo1_500.jpg This.... He's probably shot alot of people in the fucking face bone with one. |
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I have one Glock. A M31. Only one failure with it. Stovepiped one day. Just once. The M&Ps? I have 2 FS M&Ps. Multiple failures to fire with both guns and the .357 SIG barrel (factory S&W) keyholes the same reloads the Glock shoots just fine. As much as I don't like that Glock, it still beats the M&Ps for reliability and it beats the .357 SIG M&P for accuracy. The 9MM M&P, when it goes band is more accurate than the Glock. Don't the Glock magazines have a metal liner between the inside and outside plastic layers? Mine seem to have them, at lease up at the feed lips. My M&Ps are failed experiments in plastic guns. I've moved on to CZ's and they are more reliable and more accurate than my M&Ps. View Quote NCHP had nothing but problems with M&Ps in 357 Sig, S&W was unable to fix them and NCHP returned to issuing Sigs even though the Smith's were nearly free. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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What issues have glock had? Only thing I know of is brass to face but even then the gun still functioned. I like them both but its hard for me to throw the dice on a m&p 9 with the accuracy issues. Shield I would buy because for thr price, I think nothing can compete.
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What issues have glock had? Only thing I know of is brass to face but even then the gun still functioned. I like them both but its hard for me to throw the dice on a m&p 9 with the accuracy issues. Shield I would buy because for thr price, I think nothing can compete. View Quote Glocks have had their problems. Been to classes in years past where the Glocks (specifically, the early Gen4 9mms) were choking regularly and on the line. The M&Ps hummed right along. Now, I could draw conclusions from that, but I won't. Because Glocks are good reliable handguns when they aren't early Gen4 9mms. |
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Does Kyle shoot competitively? View Quote He used to, and also helped set up a new range on Bragg specifically to get active military into competitive shooting. He's fun to watch shooting 3-gun. Lightning fast, no misses, insane mag changes, crazy rapid strings at distance in the D-Drill, excellent splits with a pistol, etc. When he came back from the Saddam job, he had a beard that looked like ZZ Top. Several of the shooters at a 3-Gun match he shot didn't know who he was, and were blown away when they saw him clean stage after stage. "Who is that guy?" "I think he repairs trucks or something." We told them. Shooters all ran to him to ask him how he shoots so fast, so accurately, what was he doing, etc. |
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He used to, and also helped set up a new range on Bragg specifically to get active military into competitive shooting. He's fun to watch shooting 3-gun. Lightning fast, no misses, insane mag changes, crazy rapid strings at distance in the D-Drill, excellent splits with a pistol, etc. When he came back from the Saddam job, he had a beard that looked like ZZ Top. Several of the shooters at a 3-Gun match he shot didn't know who he was, and were blown away when they saw him clean stage after stage. "Who is that guy?" "I think he repairs trucks or something." We told them. Shooters all ran to him to ask him how he shoots so fast, so accurately, what was he doing, etc. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Does Kyle shoot competitively? He used to, and also helped set up a new range on Bragg specifically to get active military into competitive shooting. He's fun to watch shooting 3-gun. Lightning fast, no misses, insane mag changes, crazy rapid strings at distance in the D-Drill, excellent splits with a pistol, etc. When he came back from the Saddam job, he had a beard that looked like ZZ Top. Several of the shooters at a 3-Gun match he shot didn't know who he was, and were blown away when they saw him clean stage after stage. "Who is that guy?" "I think he repairs trucks or something." We told them. Shooters all ran to him to ask him how he shoots so fast, so accurately, what was he doing, etc. |
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He used to, and also helped set up a new range on Bragg specifically to get active military into competitive shooting. He's fun to watch shooting 3-gun. Lightning fast, no misses, insane mag changes, crazy rapid strings at distance in the D-Drill, excellent splits with a pistol, etc. When he came back from the Saddam job, he had a beard that looked like ZZ Top. Several of the shooters at a 3-Gun match he shot didn't know who he was, and were blown away when they saw him clean stage after stage. "Who is that guy?" "I think he repairs trucks or something." We told them. Shooters all ran to him to ask him how he shoots so fast, so accurately, what was he doing, etc. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Does Kyle shoot competitively? He used to, and also helped set up a new range on Bragg specifically to get active military into competitive shooting. He's fun to watch shooting 3-gun. Lightning fast, no misses, insane mag changes, crazy rapid strings at distance in the D-Drill, excellent splits with a pistol, etc. When he came back from the Saddam job, he had a beard that looked like ZZ Top. Several of the shooters at a 3-Gun match he shot didn't know who he was, and were blown away when they saw him clean stage after stage. "Who is that guy?" "I think he repairs trucks or something." We told them. Shooters all ran to him to ask him how he shoots so fast, so accurately, what was he doing, etc. He looks lightning fast with those two pistols in the video. I do respect his comments on the Glock and M&P. My experience in competitive shooting (which is not a whole lot) is that the Glock pistols just flat out run no matter the caliber. Whether it be Limited or Production. The pistols I have seen have major issues are: Xdm, SR9, 1911, 2011 etc. That being said all pistols will have issues at some point due to a worn part or what not. Some platforms are finicky and Glock is not one of them. |
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From Streamlights FAQ Q: Are there Issues Using Tactical Lights on Glock(r) Pistols? A: Some Glock(r) .40 caliber pistols, models 22 and 23, exhibit feeding malfunctions, either nose down or nose up (stovepipe), when used with tactical lights. The problems tend to occur with individual guns, with some pistols becoming totally unreliable while other identical, even close in serial number sequence, guns have no problems. Most models 22 and 23 are reliable. A sensitive gun may malfunction with any tactical light - the TLRs, the older M models, and even Glock(r)'s own brand. There is evidence that the problem sometimes develops with use, and may progress until the pistol is unreliable even with no light attached. On the basis of testing by Streamlight, we believe the problem is magazine related. It appears that the rounds are unable to rise fast enough for proper cycling. We have observed proper feeding for the first few rounds, consistent failures at mid-magazine capacity, and a return to proper feeding of the last few cartridges in the magazine. We have tried both stronger and weaker recoil springs, and compound-action recoil buffers, all without success. Sometimes new magazine springs, either new Glock(r) or Wolff, will cure the problem. In one case of a pistol which was totally reliable when new but progressed to malfunctioning on every magazine, even with no light installed, we found two solutions which restored reliability, but which might not be acceptable to some users. The first was using 10 round capacity Glock(r) magazines. The gun will not cycle reliably with 15 round mags with their steeply stacked columns but works flawlessly with 10 round mags. The second solution was a new magazine follower from Brownells(r), their part number 069-000-006. When used in a 15 round magazine with a new spring, reliability was restored. However, the follower would not lock the slide open after the last round. Ammunition is also a factor with any weapon. Some brands and weights may be totally reliable while others jam repeatedly. Make sure your gun is thoroughly tested with your duty ammo. Brownells(r) is a registered trademark of Brownells(r), Inc. Glock(r) is a registered trademark of GLOCK Gesellschaft mbH. View Quote |
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I've always liked kyle lambs videos. He really knows his shit, he's fast as fuck, and he seems a lot more humble than some of the other douchetards like Larry Vickers out there. View Quote Guns are just tools. No matter which one you pick Kyle Lamb will out shoot you with it. I have trained with Lamb and Vickers more than once each. They both know their way around guns better than most folks. With that said, their personalities are night and day apart. ETA: The trigger on that Salient M&P is as nice as the trigger on my bolt gun. |
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I prefer the way the M&P fits in my hand. But when it comes to everything else, I vastly prefer the Glock. So as you might imagine, my collection has a bunch of Glocks, and no M&Ps, at least for now. Once the M&P has been around as long as the Glock and undergone numerous revisions to correct problems, I may start to favor the M&P.
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I missread. Lumpy said "M&P factory spare parts" but what I read was "S&W factory spare parts". I had issues obtaining some parts for an older model that I wanted to fix for a friend. They refused to sell me the parts. They said I could send the gun in, and that's it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Good luck obtaining M&P factory spare parts. Yup. I learned that one the hard way. What couldn't you purchase? Has something changed recently? Not only can you buy them direct from S&W, vendors like Speed Shooter Specialties have nearly every single component for sale. If they're out of stock/behind in production that's one thing, but to say they're not available is not true. I missread. Lumpy said "M&P factory spare parts" but what I read was "S&W factory spare parts". I had issues obtaining some parts for an older model that I wanted to fix for a friend. They refused to sell me the parts. They said I could send the gun in, and that's it. Same reason I never grabbed a few XDs back in the day: the bullshit practice of not selling parts. Heck, at the time, it was easier to get HK parts than XD parts. Not sure what S&W, Springfield Armory, etc, rationale is behind their decisions. |
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Assuming I have an M&P with no accuracy issues (mine are all GTG in that regard) I prefer shooting the M&P because the grip works better for my hands. Accuracy between the ones I own and the Glocks I own are pretty much the same.
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When you get to that level of excellence (referring to the guns; Lamb's sterling reputation needs nothing I can provide) just pick one. Either will serve you as long as you need them to, as well as you expect them to. I've gotten over my anti-Glock mentality. They are good guns. So are M&Ps. View Quote Both are fully functional tools meant to do a job. The only problem with Glock is that the game has moved on a lot on the last 30 years and other companies-like S&W are doing it better these days. |
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What I got from that is that they are pretty much a tie. I've never heard about lights causing a problem on Glocks before and I don't want to have to change the barrel on a new gun to get accuracy. That's starting to get into the problems of tuning a 1911. I'll stick with my Glocks. View Quote Early M&P's did have a problem with lock-up and accuracy was a problem with some guns. None of the 5 M&P's in this house, hers or mine, hjave accuracy problems. |
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I have seen more M & P issues than Glock by a ton. View Quote The M&P is a fairly new gun-Glock had their issues when they were new for sure. I personally have had my G23 go Kaboom, and a frame crack down the centerline.... saying that my M&P's don't do that really isn't a fair comparison, is it? |
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Are the newer M&P's still requiring a new trigger? I just couldn't get over the long, and non positive reset. View Quote The new trigger is better, but it still isn't as good as it can be when you go aftermarket. The salient point for this thread is that at least with the M&P you can actually do something about the trigger if you don't like it. With the Glock there's just not much you can do. All of my M&P's have full blown ATEi trigger jobs..... I just finished a total custom overhaul on my old G23 and with the best trigger kit on the market (Ghost Evo 3) it still sucks donkey balls when compared to the reworked M&P's. A guy can say that "M&P triggers Suck", but I say "Glock triggers were designed to (help) keep cops from shooting themselves in the leg. |
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Huh, maybe it's only the full size frames. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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As much as I think Kyle is a good instructor I have to disagree. At best it's a case by case basis on comparison. On the whole M&Ps have had multiple issues including horridly bad triggers, inaccuracy, early unlocking barrels, and iffy slide locks. Granted some .40 Glocks have issues cycling with lights and the early Gen 4s had extractor issues, but on the whole the Glock platform has been much more reliable historically. Also the Gen4 Glocks have a beavertail and are made in the USA. Hmm, my Gen4 G27 says made in Austria. Still wrong, they come in both. Just depends on which one you happened to buy. I have two Gen 4 G19's, one was made in USA, one was made in Austria. Gen4 G17 made in Austria. |
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I like austria. I like glock. Habe no problem sending my money to them for creating something that has veen reliable as hell and accurate as hell through tens of thousands of rounds.
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Assuming I have an M&P with no accuracy issues (mine are all GTG in that regard) I prefer shooting the M&P because the grip works better for my hands. Accuracy between the ones I own and the Glocks I own are pretty much the same. View Quote Pretty much this. My M&P also has a thumb safety which I really like because it mimics the controls on my 1911. |
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The new trigger is better, but it still isn't as good as it can be when you go aftermarket. The salient point for this thread is that at least with the M&P you can actually do something about the trigger if you don't like it. With the Glock there's just not much you can do. All of my M&P's have full blown ATEi trigger jobs..... I just finished a total custom overhaul on my old G23 and with the best trigger kit on the market (Ghost Evo 3) it still sucks donkey balls when compared to the reworked M&P's. A guy can say that "M&P triggers Suck", but I say "Glock triggers were designed to (help) keep cops from shooting themselves in the leg. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Are the newer M&P's still requiring a new trigger? I just couldn't get over the long, and non positive reset. The new trigger is better, but it still isn't as good as it can be when you go aftermarket. The salient point for this thread is that at least with the M&P you can actually do something about the trigger if you don't like it. With the Glock there's just not much you can do. All of my M&P's have full blown ATEi trigger jobs..... I just finished a total custom overhaul on my old G23 and with the best trigger kit on the market (Ghost Evo 3) it still sucks donkey balls when compared to the reworked M&P's. A guy can say that "M&P triggers Suck", but I say "Glock triggers were designed to (help) keep cops from shooting themselves in the leg. That's because Glocks have a combat trigger, you know for military and police. |
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I would take an M&P .45 midsize with manual safety, Warren sights, and a few APEX goodies over both of those options.
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