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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:25:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
M&P = designed by gun makers to equip police and combat soldiers Glock = designed by a shovelmaker to equip conscripted parade marchers First, the fact that they named it Military and Police is gay as shit. Second, what military contracts do they actually have? Edit to add: Looks like the Iraqi military does use these. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:26:09 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The comparison was between Glocks and M&Ps. But if we are introducing other makes HK > CZ. 
No... H&K has been just another pistol maker since the P7 and P9. Although the new VP9 line shows a lot of promise. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:27:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep that was the deal killer for me as well. I sold all of mine except the two Shields. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Are the newer M&P's still requiring a new trigger? I just couldn't get over the long, and non positive reset. Yep that was the deal killer for me as well. I sold all of mine except the two Shields. My M&P 9 has a trigger pull of 5.2# Stock M&P trigger |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:32:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
M&P = designed by a no talent copy cat gunmaker who are warm and fuzzy with liberal democratic .gov policies Glock = designed by a very talented Polymer engineer who also happens to make shovels and knives into a gun carried by 70% of the world's armies and police departments FIFY |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:33:55 PM EDT
[#5]
tag
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:35:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First, the fact that they named it Military and Police is gay as shit. Second, what military contracts do they actually have? Edit to add: Looks like the Iraqi military does use these. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
M&P = designed by gun makers to equip police and combat soldiers Glock = designed by a shovelmaker to equip conscripted parade marchers First, the fact that they named it Military and Police is gay as shit. Second, what military contracts do they actually have? Edit to add: Looks like the Iraqi military does use these. S&W has been using the "Military & Police" name for over 100 years. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:35:24 PM EDT
[#7]
I just recently (three months ago) picked up an M&P 9c to compliment my need for a different carry gun due to climate/dress situations.
I carry an XD45 full size grip, Kahr PM45, LCP and now the M&P9c depending on clothing choice. The M&P came with a ~9lb 14oz trigger from the factory, which is uncalled for. It's a Talo Exclusive, and was to have a standard trigger although it felt like a Massachusetts trigger. I had ordered the gun in, and failed to check the pull when I received it, so shame on me...but still. The trigger bar is of the newer design, so the tactile feedback with the reset is somewhat there so I didn't need to install the Apex RAM. I did, however, need to spend the $125 for the Apex trigger and DCAEK to get it to break at 5lb 6oz (I was striving for 6 pounds). Had to use a mix and match of factory and Apex springs to get it to do that, though. It was frustrating that they release the M&Ps with such varying trigger quality. My dad has two full size and a compact, the full size are 2lbs different with no mods, and his stock 9c is just as good as my Apex 9c (minus the actual trigger). All bought within a year and a half timeframe. The whole ordeal soured me on the M&P series in that I needed to spend so much to get it on par with Glock. It IS a very nice shooting pistol now, thankfully I didn't get one of the inaccurate ones, or smooth-bore ones though...I'd have seriously smashed the thing into pieces and sent it back to Smith & Wesson with a big "FUCK YOU" note. Before someone asks why I just didn't go glock, the grip angle is the only gripe I have about Glocks. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:35:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What I got from that is that they are pretty much a tie. I've never heard about lights causing a problem on Glocks before and I don't want to have to change the barrel on a new gun to get accuracy. That's starting to get into the problems of tuning a 1911. I'll stick with my Glocks. I have heard but have never seen the light issue on the Glock. I did notice he has an older M&P with the old trigger that came factory with 9mm barrels with poor twist rates. I wonder what his take on accuracy of the M&P would be with the new factory barrels with the updated twist rates. I posted on here many of times of my problems with M&P9 accuracy issues. I tried to like them. For two years I carried that gun. The recent shield thread with no rifling is icing on the cake. Back to Glock for me. What? A Shield with no rifling? Sounds like a thread a Glock 42 fanboi would make I hate the 42. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1672918_New_to_me_SandW_Shield__40__Smooth_bore_barrel_.html |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:36:29 PM EDT
[#9]
Only the .40 cal glocks had issues with weapon mounted lights and I believe that has since been adressed.
They are both excellent gun but this guy is definitely biased. I'd take either but ended up buying the glock. I do plan on owning a m&p one day when funds allow |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:50:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only the .40 cal glocks had issues with weapon mounted lights and I believe that has since been adressed. They are both excellent gun but this guy is definitely biased. I'd take either but ended up buying the glock. I do plan on owning a m&p one day when funds allow What was/is the issue with Glocks and lights? I've got a light on my G19 and have never noticed any issues. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:54:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What was/is the issue with Glocks and lights? I've got a light on my G19 and have never noticed any issues. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Only the .40 cal glocks had issues with weapon mounted lights and I believe that has since been adressed. They are both excellent gun but this guy is definitely biased. I'd take either but ended up buying the glock. I do plan on owning a m&p one day when funds allow What was/is the issue with Glocks and lights? I've got a light on my G19 and have never noticed any issues. There are competing theories to the causes of stoppages in the Gen 3 Glock 22 with a light mounted. Here are mine. The old 10-coil magazine spring was borderline underpowered for 180Gn 40SW. Adding a heavy weaponlight to the Glock stiffened the frame and increased slide velocity allowing the slide to outrun the magazine springs ability to move the next 180Gn bullet into proper position. Glock now uses an 11 coil magazine spring in G22 mags. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:58:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What was/is the issue with Glocks and lights? I've got a light on my G19 and have never noticed any issues. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Only the .40 cal glocks had issues with weapon mounted lights and I believe that has since been adressed. They are both excellent gun but this guy is definitely biased. I'd take either but ended up buying the glock. I do plan on owning a m&p one day when funds allow What was/is the issue with Glocks and lights? I've got a light on my G19 and have never noticed any issues. The .40 models, especially early gen.3 22s, could have a frame flex issue with an inserted mag and an attached light. That is, the frame might not flex enough, causing issues with the movement of the slide during firing. Since resolved, I thought. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:59:02 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are competing theories to the causes of stoppages in the Gen 3 Glock 22 with a light mounted. Here are mine. The old 10-coil magazine spring was borderline underpowered for 180Gn 40SW. Adding a heavy weaponlight to the Glock stiffened the frame and increased slide velocity allowing the slide to outrun the magazine springs ability to move the next 180Gn bullet into proper position. Glock now uses an 11 coil magazine spring in G22 mags. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Only the .40 cal glocks had issues with weapon mounted lights and I believe that has since been adressed. They are both excellent gun but this guy is definitely biased. I'd take either but ended up buying the glock. I do plan on owning a m&p one day when funds allow What was/is the issue with Glocks and lights? I've got a light on my G19 and have never noticed any issues. There are competing theories to the causes of stoppages in the Gen 3 Glock 22 with a light mounted. Here are mine. The old 10-coil magazine spring was borderline underpowered for 180Gn 40SW. Adding a heavy weaponlight to the Glock stiffened the frame and increased slide velocity allowing the slide to outrun the magazine springs ability to move the next 180Gn bullet into proper position. Glock now uses an 11 coil magazine spring in G22 mags. Thanks. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:00:06 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm happy with my stock M&P9 and would like another. For whatever reason I shoot it very well despite the fact that the trigger is not as good as the ones on my 1911s, P-38, and Highway Patrolman.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:01:56 PM EDT
[#15]
And as per usual it comes down to what you shoot the best.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:02:32 PM EDT
[#16]
To Glock's credit, they subsequently fixed the problems, but they were so damn determined to beat S&W to the punch with a .40S&W pistol that they didn't do enough research and testing when they made the G22.
That's the source of the "gun light problems" and about 87% of the "glock grenade" nonsense (I'm not a Glock fan... but to claim that they blow up all the time is just dumb), rushing a product to market. Every company has been guilty from time to time. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:03:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I got from that is that they are pretty much a tie. I've never heard about lights causing a problem on Glocks before and I don't want to have to change the barrel on a new gun to get accuracy. That's starting to get into the problems of tuning a 1911. I'll stick with my Glocks. Funny.... That was only in some 9mm MP's but if you want to shoot lead in any Glock you have to change the barrel.... Both are good guns... I own and shoot both but yes I perfer S&W.... |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:05:21 PM EDT
[#18]
Bought an M&P 9C in 2012 to replace the compact 1911 I'd been carrying. Didn't care for the trigger and put in DCAEK which was a big improvment. Carried it for a year and a half, but happened to put my mitts on a Gen 4 G19. M&P doesn't see the outside of the safe much these days.
It was a toss up - $92 to upgrade to a DCAEK trigger or $100 to put Trijicon sights on the Glock. Glock sight removal/install was much easier and the stock Gen 4 trigger is better than the DCAEK trigger, even if it is a bit heavier. After a dozen years of CC, I've become a Glock fanboi, though I still have a Shield and a P7 for when slim pistol is appropriate. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:05:52 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Requires more tools and having to sight in your gun again after servicing the slide is silly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
He left out ease of repair. Anyone can completely strip a Glock. M&P requires you to remove the rear sight to detail strip the slide  .That isn't exactly rocket surgery. Requires more tools and having to sight in your gun again after servicing the slide is silly. No need to resight if you use a witness mark on the slide and rear sight showing their alignment before disassembly. That is what I did on my M&P when installing APEX parts. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:16:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good luck obtaining M&P factory spare parts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He left out ease of repair. Anyone can completely strip a Glock. M&P requires you to remove the rear sight to detail strip the slide .Good luck obtaining M&P factory spare parts. What factory spare M&P part can't you obtain? Factory slides, barrels, strikers, locking blocks, trigger bars, springs, extractors, retainers, base pads, pins, controls... You could literally build an M&P off of a stripped frame purchasing factory replacement parts. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:17:36 PM EDT
[#21]
You only have to remove the M&P rear sight if you are removing the firing pin BLOCK mechanism. To remove the firing pin, you remove the provided TOOL from the grip, slide the sleeve around the firing pin forward with the tool and slide the end cap off. The firing pin assembly then comes out. It does not require the removal of the rear sight to do that.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:19:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. I learned that one the hard way. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Good luck obtaining M&P factory spare parts. Yup. I learned that one the hard way. What couldn't you purchase? Has something changed recently? Not only can you buy them direct from S&W, vendors like Speed Shooter Specialties have nearly every single component for sale. If they're out of stock/behind in production that's one thing, but to say they're not available is not true. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:19:57 PM EDT
[#23]
I respect Kyle Lamb and I think he attempted to give a very fair estimate, but nobody is capable of divorcing themselves from the conflict of interest he clearly possesses. Frankly, I wouldn't expect any other conclusion from him.
The thing I took issue with most in his statement is that the only place you feel reset is in the gunshot dry firing. I personally feel the reset every time I fire the pistol and that firm reset assists me in my shooting whether it's accuracy or speed driven. Now someone like Kyle with million of rounds down an M&P the reset is probably like an automatic thing he just knows where it is and doesn't need any feed back, but for those mortals like me I like having it. I greatly enjoy my wife's M&P Shield Trigger for that reset. That firm rest on the Shield has helped to teach my wife as well how to shoot. I will say that between the Shield and the Glock 19 that we've had more FTE with the Shield using steel cased than we have with the Glock 19. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:22:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bought an M&P 9C in 2012 to replace the compact 1911 I'd been carrying. Didn't care for the trigger and put in DCAEK which was a big improvment. Carried it for a year and a half, but happened to put my mitts on a Gen 4 G19. M&P doesn't see the outside of the safe much these days. It was a toss up - $92 to upgrade to a DCAEK trigger or $100 to put Trijicon sights on the Glock. Glock sight removal/install was much easier and the stock Gen 4 trigger is better than the DCAEK trigger, even if it is a bit heavier. After a dozen years of CC, I've become a Glock fanboi, though I still have a Shield and a P7 for when slim pistol is appropriate. Glock factory night sights. $57 installed. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:24:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Kyle has a dog in this race so take that for what it's worth. My friends and I have been Glocks guys for years. I recently won a M&P 9 full size and compact. We all got a change to shoot them both a good bit and now one friend has an M&P CORE with an RMR and the other is "getting his wife" an M&P. None of us are going to sell our Glocks, each gun has it's pros and cons. I do agree with him everyone should have a Glock 9mm as a "fall back gun" because in a SHTF situation Glock parts and mags would be more readily available.
I must have the newer trigger in my M&Ps because I have no issues with it. The reset is not as tactile or audible as a Glock but when out practicing or shooting a match I have never had a problem. Just my experience. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:26:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Every competition guy that i have heard that is a non tactical timmy says that "m and p" trigger and accuracy sucks.
Glocks work. For some reason, all the newest tactical timmies want to use the " military and police" . Not sure why. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:27:18 PM EDT
[#27]
I've been wanting a 5" M&P 9 and they've supposedly fixed the unlocking issues but I keep seeing threads pop up where people get a dud that won't group for shit with S&W unwilling to do anything to resolve the issue. It has me considering a Glock 34 instead as I haven't seen that issue with them. The Gen 4 34 seems to fit my hand very well, certainly more so than previous gen frames. Add the ability to get a blue label gun through GSSF at almost $100 less than a M&P 5" it's hard to not want the 34. I still carry my M&P 9c that I love I just haven't been able to talk myself into getting a 5". This if for IDPA btw.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:30:52 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I own both and shoot both. Case by case basis is right. Some people had issues with Gen4s. My EDC and current competition gun is a Gen4 19 and it's never had issues. Some people hate M&P triggers. I don't mind my M&P 40 trigger at all and it's bone stock. Whatever you own, if you shoot it enough it will eventually have an issue of some kind. They're things. Things break. Pretty much this. My G23 has been flawless in countless numbers of rounds in 15 years and the M&P9 wouldn't fire two rounds with out jamming. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:36:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every competition guy that i have heard that is a non tactical timmy says that "m and p" trigger and accuracy sucks. Glocks work. For some reason, all the newest tactical timmies want to use the " military and police" . Not sure why. MAGPUL DVDs 
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:36:26 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When you get to that level of excellence (referring to the guns; Lamb's sterling reputation needs nothing I can provide) just pick one. Either will serve you as long as you need them to, as well as you expect them to. I've gotten over my anti-Glock mentality. They are good guns. So are M&Ps.  The M&P does feel better in my hand but that is strictly a comfort/personal preference thing. Wish I could buy mags at the glock price though.  |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:54:45 PM EDT
[#31]
Not mentioned in the video, but for a .45 ACP the Glock is the clear winner.
I don't dabble in .40 anymore. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:55:38 PM EDT
[#32]
The Shield is the best single stack 9mm on the market for the price. It's so much better than anything else until you get up to PPS money that it's not even funny. $350 for a top-notch carry gun? Yes.
The double stacks? They're okay, I guess. I have a G19 and a Shield 9, and they're the two pistols I use the most. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:57:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Both are excellent pistols. No such thing as " One Size Fits All " when it comes to handguns. Pick the one you like.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:59:41 PM EDT
[#34]
gen4 glocks changed everything for me
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:05:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Kyle Lamb is the guy who picked a .40 double-stack 1911 system for a pistol for some guys he worked with. I would take tactics training from him, but weapons advice I would take from the fat-guy who hates printer repairmen. Both will shill for whomever pays them to, within reason.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:10:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You only have to remove the M&P rear sight if you are removing the firing pin BLOCK mechanism. To remove the firing pin, you remove the provided TOOL from the grip, slide the sleeve around the firing pin forward with the tool and slide the end cap off. The firing pin assembly then comes out. It does not require the removal of the rear sight to do that. And you can get the firing pin (striker) BLOCK out of a GLOCK without removing the rear sight. I've owned both (multiple Gen 3 26, 19, 17, multiple Gen 4 19 and 17, multiple M&P 9FS, 9C and 45C). All I own right now are Glocks. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:12:37 PM EDT
[#37]
An M&P with an Apex DCAEK is as close to perfect as it gets. Most people shoot Glocks to the left due to over travel in the trigger. The Apex trigger prevents this in the Smith.
Current Smiths have no accuracy issues. If you want, KKM will fit a match barrel. Smiths don't fail with lights...something I have seen in about 40% of Glocks on a line of LEOs. Smith mags are much better...less flash, less friction, more consistent. Smith night sights are a better shape with the VTAC model being much better. However...Glocks are easier to work on, clean, and are easier to find holsters for. I love my Smith. It is a near perfect handgun...but I also have Glocks and they work. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:13:09 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
gen4 glocks changed everything for me The flying brass put your eyes out? |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:14:49 PM EDT
[#39]
in for the shit-storm
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:17:17 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Both are excellent pistols. No such thing as " One Size Fits All " when it comes to handguns. Pick the one you like. Unless you have abnormally small hands or are missing digits or some other physical handicap, pretty much any RELIABLE handgun with DECENT ACCURACY in the 9MM - .45ACP range should work. Beyond that it is a matter of comfort or "feel" or personal preference. You should be able to walk up to a table pick up a random gun and hit a sheet of 8x10 paper with a decent group. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:20:13 PM EDT
[#41]
Glock is far superior to M&P in the reliability department.
After that nothing else is worth consideration. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:21:49 PM EDT
[#42]
I have both but I carry the Glock 19.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:23:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have both but I carry the Glock 19. The G19 "size" is the biggest thing the Glock has going for it by far... it's fucking perfect. There's an M&P that's almost the exact same size... but it's chambered in .45ACP.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:26:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The G19 "size" is the biggest thing the Glock has going for it by far... it's fucking perfect. There's an M&P that's almost the exact same size... but it's chambered in .45ACP. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have both but I carry the Glock 19. The G19 "size" is the biggest thing the Glock has going for it by far... it's fucking perfect. There's an M&P that's almost the exact same size... but it's chambered in .45ACP. Yup. I the winter I will sometimes carry the M&P. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:29:17 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glock is far superior to M&P in the reliability department. After that nothing else is worth consideration. Based on what? I've seen probably 1500+ Glock 19s over the last decade used by shooters of every imaginable experience level. They were good pistols but plenty had issues. There is a reason the Glock is on Gen 6 of their 9mm mag follower. Likewise, I have seen Smiths have accuracy issues with the old style barrels...but never a reliability issue. Neither is perfect but Glocks are not the panacea of reliability they are made out to be. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:57:05 PM EDT
[#46]
Kyle Who?
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:58:11 PM EDT
[#47]
Both are excellent guns that the proponent of one can find nitpicks with the other. You won't go wrong with either though. I have one of each.
I myself could nitpick things about each I don't like or prefer in the other which if I could somehow port over would make the perfect pistol for ME, but the company's don't make pistols just for ME. That said, the overall feel in the hand of the M&P is nicer, and perhaps the biggest advantage is that I don't have to dremel off any moronic finger grooves that some idiot saw fit to mold in thinking all our fingers and hand spans are the same width. For ME, I have to modify the Glock a good deal to bring it on par with the M&P, and even then it feels too wide, squared off and blocky. That said, I love both. Arguing about which is better is kind of silly. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:10:14 PM EDT
[#48]
I own a G21, 22, 27, 36. I also own a S&W M&P FS .45. I've been shooting Glocks since the early 90's, my choice for work is the M&P.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:19:05 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And he had to know all of that info. The fact that he chose to ignore it raises some eyebrows. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
As much as I think Kyle is a good instructor I have to disagree. At best it's a case by case basis on comparison. On the whole M&Ps have had multiple issues including horridly bad triggers, inaccuracy, early unlocking barrels, and iffy slide locks. Granted some .40 Glocks have issues cycling with lights and the early Gen 4s had extractor issues, but on the whole the Glock platform has been much more reliable historically. Also the Gen4 Glocks have a beavertail and are made in the USA. And he had to know all of that info. The fact that he chose to ignore it raises some eyebrows. You didn't watch the video, did you. He specifically said that the M&P's had accuracy issues, and that he installed aftermarket barrels in all of his to deal with that. The M&P has never had a horrible trigger. It's a great factory trigger. A horrible trigger would be a Smith & Wesson Sigma, or a New York trigger in a Glock. For my carry M&P, I have the stock trigger. For my fullsize, I installed an Apex. On Glocks, the factory connector is a good base to start with, then carefully polished. I use both guns, but I prefer the ergonomics of the M&P over the Glock without reservation. I'm used to the Glock, having shot it since the 1980's, so I have that memory of what I need to do when I pick one up, but I personally need to make frame modifications on Glocks in order to shoot them in high volume, otherwise my distal metacarpal gets trashed. My last several pistol purchases have all been M&P's, and the only reasons I have to look at Glock now are the 10mm options. There are new things happening with pistol calibers, so I'm going to invest in other calibers for CCW moving forward. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:25:09 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meh... cops drive shitty cars and wear stupid uniforms too. Glocks suit LE well. The M&P is a much better choice for a general issue gun though... that's why the Gen4 Glocks were developed, to narrow that gap. CZ makes the best service pistols by a mile anyway... everyone else is just playing for second. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
M&P = designed by gun makers to equip police and combat soldiers Glock = designed by a shovelmaker to equip conscripted parade marchers Glock = sidearm of choice carried by over half of LEA's worldwide with a proven track record for reliability M&P = another evolution of the Sigma and quickly being phased out by LEA's in favor of Glocks after they realized the M&P wasn't that great after all. Meh... cops drive shitty cars and wear stupid uniforms too. Glocks suit LE well. The M&P is a much better choice for a general issue gun though... that's why the Gen4 Glocks were developed, to narrow that gap. CZ makes the best service pistols by a mile anyway... everyone else is just playing for second. I might have given that statement more credibility until I watched a CZ-75 break in extreme cold weather, high volume. The most fun, interesting, and difficult formal shooting course I have taken was with Finnish Defense Forces in the dead of winter, snowing, with -19 to -27 C temp range. The snow was so deep, we never saw the ground. It was a 2-day course, and it also made me gain new appreciation for the Glock and M&P, but almost everyone had Glock's, including me (borrowed). The CZ-75 slide stop broke right in half along the cross pin. When I'm overseas, I prefer the Glock 19. When I'm in the States, I prefer the M&P 9mm. |
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