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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:27:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
JFK. A man child when it came to foreign policy. My family suffered horrendously because of him. Others suffered worse. I hope its reeeeeeeeeeeeealy hot where he is... |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:27:56 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Jesus Maximum trolling. That's all. 
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:28:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maximum trolling. That's all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Jesus Maximum trolling. That's all. Reading is for faggots. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:29:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My family suffered horrendously because of him. Others suffered worse. I hope its reeeeeeeeeeeeealy hot where he is... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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JFK. A man child when it came to foreign policy. My family suffered horrendously because of him. Others suffered worse. I hope its reeeeeeeeeeeeealy hot where he is... And douche O'Reily praises him (to a certain extent) in his book, minus all the pimping Mr. Kennedy did. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:29:31 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jimmy Hoffa. Union folk say hero. I believe thug and bully to be more correct. Probably got what he deserved. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:36:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My family suffered horrendously because of him. Others suffered worse. I hope its reeeeeeeeeeeeealy hot where he is... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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JFK. A man child when it came to foreign policy. My family suffered horrendously because of him. Others suffered worse. I hope its reeeeeeeeeeeeealy hot where he is... 
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:37:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryNo. Despite his many faults, I think history will be kind to him. Hero? Probably not. Villain? Definitely not. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:38:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reading is for faggots. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Jesus Maximum trolling. That's all. Reading is for faggots. So is trolling. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:38:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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JFK. A man child when it came to foreign policy. My family suffered horrendously because of him. Others suffered worse. I hope its reeeeeeeeeeeeealy hot where he is... Bay of Pigs. Don't get me started. 
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:40:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bay of Pigs. Don't get me started. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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JFK. A man child when it came to foreign policy. My family suffered horrendously because of him. Others suffered worse. I hope its reeeeeeeeeeeeealy hot where he is... Bay of Pigs. Don't get me started. That was my first guess, but I didn't know for sure if you were Cuban. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:40:09 PM EDT
[#11]
Gandhi told the British that they shouldn't fight back against Germany during WW2...
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:44:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gandhi told the British that they shouldn't fight back against Germany during WW2... Well, at least he was consistent... |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:47:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gandhi told the British that they shouldn't fight back against Germany during WW2... That's totally retarded. Can you imagine how awful it would be if England were invaded by foreigners? Oh, wait... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9831912/I-feel-like-a-stranger-where-I-live.html |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:49:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
George Washington He fought a war to shake off the yoke on his shoulders only to turn around and use the full armed might of the new republic to emplace that yoke on other Americans. Tax Free Whiskey!!!!!! Burn in hell Tyrant George!!!! You're pegging my sarcasm meter and I still have the following guidance for you: Not with your hand, with my hand! Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:57:27 PM EDT
[#15]
I'll add to those who've already piled on that dirtbag Mandela, JFK and Abe Lincoln. I know he's a holy cow to so many, but MLK was no saint either. You can get beat up in some places saying that.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 4:03:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Gandhi and Indira Gandhi.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 4:03:43 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rachel Carson Bingo! |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 4:15:07 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, at least he was consistent... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gandhi told the British that they shouldn't fight back against Germany during WW2... Well, at least he was consistent... I'm going to need a source for that. Ghandi wasn't the pacifist he is made out to be. At least, not at all points in his life. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 4:15:30 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did he actually exist? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Robin Hood Did he actually exist? He was one of the Knights Templar! Seriously! Well, semi-seriously. Well, ok, probably not. But he might have been, you never know  . The timing is consistent and the description of his behaviour in the original tales does rather fit the profile... |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 4:18:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll second MacArthur. Prima donna and mediocre commander. Always had an entourage and was always playing politics. I also cannot forgive him for keeping his Phillipine aaf bombers and fighters on the ground for the 8 hours after Pearl Harbor was attacked. Too many people in his organization involved cluttered the decision making process when they could have been bombing IJN shipping coming out of Formosa. Was swept under the rug, no inquiry. Was always bitching about not having absolute control of the Pacific forces and was always crying that he should be in charge of the Navy vessels in the theater. His win at Port Moresby was due entirely to Ultra intel. And a lot of Australians fighting to the bitter end over Kokoda... One unit, the 2/39th Battalion CMF, left Australia with 1,068 men of all ranks, and received about 600 replacements during the campaign. When they finally came off the line after 6 months of operations, they had 7 officers and 25 enlisted. And these are the Aussies of whom MacArthur ("Dugout Doug") was so critical, and accused of lacking fighting spirit. ETA: It's worth noting that only a bit over 400 losses were combat casualties. The rest were to disease from the horrific conditions. Dysentery, malaria, and beriberi were more common and more disabling than gunfire. The US 32nd Infantry Division had a similar experience as far as illness and disease in the New Guinea campaign. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 4:23:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The All powerful and all knowing federal govt. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why Lincoln? Aside from a Southerner's perspectives, is there something I've missed? The All powerful and all knowing federal govt. That falls more at the feet of both Roosevelts than Lincoln.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 4:43:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm going to need a source for that. Ghandi wasn't the pacifist he is made out to be. At least, not at all points in his life. AND.....he was quite racist toward Africans/blacks. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 4:49:44 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bay of Pigs. Don't get me started. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: JFK. A man child when it came to foreign policy. My family suffered horrendously because of him. Others suffered worse. I hope its reeeeeeeeeeeeealy hot where he is... Bay of Pigs. Don't get me started. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:02:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Churchill also did a number of bad things. Not sure it's enough to make him a villain, but it's enough to regard him as overrated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I cant believe anyone said Winston Churchill. He saved England's ass when the blitzkrieg rolled across Europe. He became PM during England's darkest hour, and turned it into their finest hour. When they were the last country standing he got drunk and had a cigar in one hand and a whiskey in his other hand and made a speech for Hitler and FDR and all the world to hear...It went sorta like this... "...we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender..." Churchill also did a number of bad things. Not sure it's enough to make him a villain, but it's enough to regard him as overrated. Churchill was great at giving speeches but fell rather short in the execution: 1) Entered WWII to prevent continental Europe from falling to despotism. Ended up with not only with Stalin holding half of Europe but sold out tens of thousands of antri-Communist Eastern Europeans during Operation Keelhaul (A disgraceful episode). Many Poles are also convinced that the British acquiesced to the NKVD's assassination of General Sikorski on Gibralter. 2) Fought WWII with the aim of preserving the British Empire. Ended up losing most of it and Britain's place as a world power to boot. 3) Talked a big game against socialism but ended up enabling the rise of Clement Attlee which economically crippled Great Britain for three decades (until the rise of Margaret Thatcher). He was not that great of a leader. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:02:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lincoln was actually trying to be a buffer between Congress which wanted revenge on the South and the South itself. Lincoln's death unleashed those who sought revenge and the horrors of Reconstruction was the result. Had Lincoln not been assassinated, we might have enjoyed many more States rights today. That is an interesting take, and certainly not to be dismissed out of hand. I think its really interesting that our perceptions of the 1880s to 1910s are so limited as to forget the massive economic swings, international terrorists killing heads of state, massively disruptive technologies, social upheavals, etc. I think we forget that FDR didn't shit the New Deal out of thin air, but picked a carefully cultivated Progressive fruit off the tree and served it to the American people. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:04:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Many of Churchill's attributes were shared by another overrated historical figure, Marcus Aurelius.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:06:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He was not that great of a leader. I'd argue he was a great leader playing a losing hand. I don't think there was anyone capable truly stopping socialism in the UK once the British elite discovered the means to both embrace socialism and use to cement themselves into a permanent upper class. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:07:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was my first guess, but I didn't know for sure if you were Cuban. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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JFK. A man child when it came to foreign policy. My family suffered horrendously because of him. Others suffered w I hope its reeeeeeeeeeeeealy hot where he is... Bay of Pigs. Don't get me started. That was my first guess, but I didn't know for sure if you were Cuban. He very nearly started a nuclear war. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:15:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably got what he deserved. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Jimmy Hoffa. Union folk say hero. I believe thug and bully to be more correct. Probably got what he deserved. The Schofield Kid: "Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming." Will Munny: "We all got it coming, kid." |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:15:07 PM EDT
[#30]
I'll go with these for $800 Alex - Mandela, JFK , MLK and Lincoln.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:20:19 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd argue he was a great leader playing a losing hand. I don't think there was anyone capable truly stopping socialism in the UK once the British elite discovered the means to both embrace socialism and use to cement themselves into a permanent upper class. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He was not that great of a leader. I'd argue he was a great leader playing a losing hand. I don't think there was anyone capable truly stopping socialism in the UK once the British elite discovered the means to both embrace socialism and use to cement themselves into a permanent upper class. Churchill's embrace of Attlee has never stood well with me. I can understand the demands of wartime unity but after a certain point you have to ask yourself exactly what you're fighting for and be honest about what you're allying yourself with. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:28:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm going to need a source for that. Ghandi wasn't the pacifist he is made out to be. At least, not at all points in his life. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gandhi told the British that they shouldn't fight back against Germany during WW2... Well, at least he was consistent... I'm going to need a source for that. Ghandi wasn't the pacifist he is made out to be. At least, not at all points in his life. Ghandi was one smart dude. He realized that resistance would get his people slaughtered. So, he encouraged pacifism in order to show the brutality of the regime. It made so much bad press that the government was overturned. Clever lawyer   
If you get a chance, please read http://www.amazon.com/Gandhi-An-Autobiography-Story-Experiments/dp/0807059099 |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:41:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is an interesting take, and certainly not to be dismissed out of hand. I think its really interesting that our perceptions of the 1880s to 1910s are so limited as to forget the massive economic swings, international terrorists killing heads of state, massively disruptive technologies, social upheavals, etc. I think we forget that FDR didn't shit the New Deal out of thin air, but picked a carefully cultivated Progressive fruit off the tree and served it to the American people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Lincoln was actually trying to be a buffer between Congress which wanted revenge on the South and the South itself. Lincoln's death unleashed those who sought revenge and the horrors of Reconstruction was the result. Had Lincoln not been assassinated, we might have enjoyed many more States rights today. That is an interesting take, and certainly not to be dismissed out of hand. I think its really interesting that our perceptions of the 1880s to 1910s are so limited as to forget the massive economic swings, international terrorists killing heads of state, massively disruptive technologies, social upheavals, etc. I think we forget that FDR didn't shit the New Deal out of thin air, but picked a carefully cultivated Progressive fruit off the tree and served it to the American people. It is interesting to study how progressivism matured from the 1890's onward, pushing the idea that States rights, limited government, and strict construction of the Constitution were the enemy. What is so sad is seeing the success that progressivism has enjoyed today in undermining those things. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:48:04 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did he actually exist? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Robin Hood Did he actually exist? Yeah, he's listed under the "T"s in the Ferguson phone book. 
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Posted: 10/21/2014 10:26:35 PM EDT
[#35]
My second choice would be Montgomery. Another soldier who wanted to play politician, and his pet project Operation Market Garden was a disaster.
Like McArthur, his public reputation made it unviable politically to remove him in favor of a more effective commander, and he ended up doing more harm than good. Can't stand the positive reputation both men have in history. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 10:29:09 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is interesting to study how progressivism matured from the 1890's onward, pushing the idea that States rights, limited government, and strict construction of the Constitution were the enemy. What is so sad is seeing the success that progressivism has enjoyed today in undermining those things. Oh, yeah. Basically Progressivism was a reaction to crony capitalism run completely amok. Now we have the worst of both crony capitalism and progressivism. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 10:49:35 PM EDT
[#37]
Che
FDR Nelson Mandella Mother Taresa Thomas Edison Andrew Jackson LBJ Bill Clinton McArthur was a good answer. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 10:53:25 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most such legends are based partly in truth. Wikipedia has a list of actually people who may have been the original. Even in legend he was a thief, and a socialist. I hate thieves and socialists. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Robin Hood Did he actually exist? Most such legends are based partly in truth. Wikipedia has a list of actually people who may have been the original. Even in legend he was a thief, and a socialist. I hate thieves and socialists. (If Robin Hood was real:) He only stole from people who taxed the fuck out of poor people. He was returning what was stolen from them.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 10:57:57 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nelson Mandela Jimmy Carter JFK The Prophet Mohammed John Lennon Edit: forgot to mention LBJ.. The war on poverty is going well sir, The middle class is getting their asses handed to them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In response to this thread: Who is remembered by history as a fool or villian but got a bum rap? I had a lot of responses I wanted to make in that thread, but most of em fell under this category. My candidate would be McArthur. He was a lying, egomaniacal mommy's boy who was completely ineffective in the early stages of the Japanese invasion of the Philippines, and effectively went rogue in Korea, provoking the Chinese. He operated a command isolated from the US Government in the Korean War, and frequently made political moves completely outside of his scope as a military commander. Biographies describe his sick fascination with his mother, and from an early age he was surrounded by sycophants and yes men. He created a world around himself where he could do no wrong, and every misstep he made he blamed on others. He had a pathological aversion to taking responsibility for his actions, which often ended up getting men killed. By the end of his career, he was so mentally off his rocker it was a shitshow getting him reigned in. Your candidates? Of course, this being GD, the first name I expect is Abraham Lincoln, but I swear to god I will pistol whip the first son of a bitch that turns this into a Civil War tard fest. Nelson Mandela Jimmy Carter JFK The Prophet Mohammed John Lennon Edit: forgot to mention LBJ.. The war on poverty is going well sir, The middle class is getting their asses handed to them. Wow, that's a great list. I agree with it. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 11:01:19 PM EDT
[#40]
What's with the JFK hate? I'm genuinely curious. I even made a thread about it, but the answers weren't exactly clear.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 11:03:17 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's with the JFK hate? I'm genuinely curious. I even made a thread about it, but the answers weren't exactly clear. Bay of Pigs. Went around screwing every available piece of ass (even though his wife at least rated a 7 or 8). Those are what I can think of at any rate. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 11:05:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lincoln. They built statues for the man responsible for more dead Americans than anyone. At least Lincoln was elected... Same cannot be said of the Southern government... the tyrants in the South own the death and destruction just as much (if not more)... Lincoln was duly elected. Once *during* the conflict. Davis? Was correctly referred to as a tyrant and a "king" by southern citizenry... If Lincoln owns the death and destruction of the civil war, the slaveholders in the South share a great deal of that alongside Lincoln... The truth... Lincoln was a great man and a great leader... and he helped preserve the Union (established by our Founding Fathers) southern shareholders fought to end and destroy... |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 11:06:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nelson Mandela Obama Malcolm X Jessie Jackson Al Sharpton The list goes on... Now that is a diverse list... |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 11:24:21 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At least Lincoln was elected... Same cannot be said of the Southern government... the tyrants in the South own the death and destruction just as much (if not more)... Lincoln was duly elected. Once *during* the conflict. Davis? Was correctly referred to as a tyrant and a "king" by southern citizenry... If Lincoln owns the death and destruction of the civil war, the slaveholders in the South share a great deal of that alongside Lincoln... The truth... Lincoln was a great man and a great leader... and he helped preserve the Union (established by our Founding Fathers) southern shareholders fought to end and destroy... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lincoln. They built statues for the man responsible for more dead Americans than anyone. At least Lincoln was elected... Same cannot be said of the Southern government... the tyrants in the South own the death and destruction just as much (if not more)... Lincoln was duly elected. Once *during* the conflict. Davis? Was correctly referred to as a tyrant and a "king" by southern citizenry... If Lincoln owns the death and destruction of the civil war, the slaveholders in the South share a great deal of that alongside Lincoln... The truth... Lincoln was a great man and a great leader... and he helped preserve the Union (established by our Founding Fathers) southern shareholders fought to end and destroy... Both sides were fucked up. Lincoln started the war, kind of. But the South (while having left the union legally, as there's no such thing as an illegal secession.) was run by tyrants. I think the freeing of the slaves was purely political on Lincoln's part. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 11:25:18 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Che Gueverra |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 11:38:40 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope. He was pretty awesome, but a lot of the southern folks believe he was a tyrant, because he wouldn't let the south leave the union to practice slavery, which was an abhorrent practice that is counter to our very constitutional founding.
ETA: The south continues to be butt-hurt about it to this day.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why Lincoln? Aside from a Southerner's perspectives, is there something I've missed? Nope. He was pretty awesome, but a lot of the southern folks believe he was a tyrant, because he wouldn't let the south leave the union to practice slavery, which was an abhorrent practice that is counter to our very constitutional founding.
ETA: The south continues to be butt-hurt about it to this day. Spoken like a real boot licker. There was nothing "awesome" about lincoln. He tore this country apart, and it damn sure wasn't over slavery. The Civil War was about a federal takeover, not slavery, maybe one day you'll pull your head out of your ass and realize that. Only 5% of southerners owned slaves, around 1% of owners were black. Southerners fought because they knew what would come of a Federal entity. Enjoy that Income tax courtesy of your bud honest Abe. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 11:40:41 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not an Christian and I think there are lot of historical figures more overrated than Jesus. In fact, Christianity is largely responsible for the Western world not being an Islamic caliphate today. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Jesus How so? No bashing will be involved just curious. For those that are atheist or don't belive Christianity, Jesus is the most overrated person in all of history bar none, hands down. Obviously if you are Christian you disagree. ETA: I don't know if anyone would call Jesus a fool or villan, rather just not the person he is made out to be. I'm not an Christian and I think there are lot of historical figures more overrated than Jesus. In fact, Christianity is largely responsible for the Western world not being an Islamic caliphate today. You don't hang around Libs much do you? |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 11:40:49 PM EDT
[#48]
No one outside of 10K years...considering the age of the earth--a mere speck.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 11:41:53 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good start. Andy Warhol Neil Young Charles De Gaulle Yasir Arafat Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Nelson Mandela Jimmy Carter JFK The Prophet Mohammed John Lennon Edit: forgot to mention LBJ.. The war on poverty is going well sir, The middle class is getting their asses handed to them. Good start. Andy Warhol Neil Young Charles De Gaulle Yasir Arafat Ty sir!
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Posted: 10/21/2014 11:44:42 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow, that's a great list. I agree with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In response to this thread: Who is remembered by history as a fool or villian but got a bum rap? I had a lot of responses I wanted to make in that thread, but most of em fell under this category. My candidate would be McArthur. He was a lying, egomaniacal mommy's boy who was completely ineffective in the early stages of the Japanese invasion of the Philippines, and effectively went rogue in Korea, provoking the Chinese. He operated a command isolated from the US Government in the Korean War, and frequently made political moves completely outside of his scope as a military commander. Biographies describe his sick fascination with his mother, and from an early age he was surrounded by sycophants and yes men. He created a world around himself where he could do no wrong, and every misstep he made he blamed on others. He had a pathological aversion to taking responsibility for his actions, which often ended up getting men killed. By the end of his career, he was so mentally off his rocker it was a shitshow getting him reigned in. Your candidates? Of course, this being GD, the first name I expect is Abraham Lincoln, but I swear to god I will pistol whip the first son of a bitch that turns this into a Civil War tard fest. Nelson Mandela Jimmy Carter JFK The Prophet Mohammed John Lennon Edit: forgot to mention LBJ.. The war on poverty is going well sir, The middle class is getting their asses handed to them. Wow, that's a great list. I agree with it. Sometimes I think i'm the only person my age who feels this way. Shoulda seen the retards blubbering at my local college campus when Mandela died. Oh and the Lennon shirts always get me too. People are so out of touch with reality. |
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