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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:32:42 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
In response to this thread: Who is remembered by history as a fool or villian but got a bum rap? I had a lot of responses I wanted to make in that thread, but most of em fell under this category. My candidate would be McArthur. He was a lying, egomaniacal mommy's boy who was completely ineffective in the early stages of the Japanese invasion of the Philippines, and effectively went rogue in Korea, provoking the Chinese. He operated a command isolated from the US Government in the Korean War, and frequently made political moves completely outside of his scope as a military commander. Biographies describe his sick fascination with his mother, and from an early age he was surrounded by sycophants and yes men. He created a world around himself where he could do no wrong, and every misstep he made he blamed on others. He had a pathological aversion to taking responsibility for his actions, which often ended up getting men killed. By the end of his career, he was so mentally off his rocker it was a shitshow getting him reigned in. Your candidates? Of course, this being GD, the first name I expect is Abraham Lincoln, but I swear to god I will pistol whip the first son of a bitch that turns this into a Civil War tard fest. Nelson Mandela Jimmy Carter JFK The Prophet Mohammed John Lennon Edit: forgot to mention LBJ.. The war on poverty is going well sir, The middle class is getting their asses handed to them. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:33:03 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nelson Mandella Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In response to this thread: Who is remembered by history as a fool or villian but got a bum rap? I had a lot of responses I wanted to make in that thread, but most of em fell under this category. My candidate would be McArthur. He was a lying, egomaniacal mommy's boy who was completely ineffective in the early stages of the Japanese invasion of the Philippines, and effectively went rogue in Korea, provoking the Chinese. He operated a command isolated from the US Government in the Korean War, and frequently made political moves completely outside of his scope as a military commander. Biographies describe his sick fascination with his mother, and from an early age he was surrounded by sycophants and yes men. He created a world around himself where he could do no wrong, and every misstep he made he blamed on others. He had a pathological aversion to taking responsibility for his actions, which often ended up getting men killed. By the end of his career, he was so mentally off his rocker it was a shitshow getting him reigned in. Your candidates? Of course, this being GD, the first name I expect is Abraham Lincoln, but I swear to god I will pistol whip the first son of a bitch that turns this into a Civil War tard fest. Nelson Mandella Boom.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:33:16 AM EDT
[#3]
Thomas Edison.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:34:16 AM EDT
[#4]
Che Gueverra
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:34:48 AM EDT
[#5]
FDR.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:35:36 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boom. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In response to this thread: Who is remembered by history as a fool or villian but got a bum rap? I had a lot of responses I wanted to make in that thread, but most of em fell under this category. My candidate would be McArthur. He was a lying, egomaniacal mommy's boy who was completely ineffective in the early stages of the Japanese invasion of the Philippines, and effectively went rogue in Korea, provoking the Chinese. He operated a command isolated from the US Government in the Korean War, and frequently made political moves completely outside of his scope as a military commander. Biographies describe his sick fascination with his mother, and from an early age he was surrounded by sycophants and yes men. He created a world around himself where he could do no wrong, and every misstep he made he blamed on others. He had a pathological aversion to taking responsibility for his actions, which often ended up getting men killed. By the end of his career, he was so mentally off his rocker it was a shitshow getting him reigned in. Your candidates? Of course, this being GD, the first name I expect is Abraham Lincoln, but I swear to god I will pistol whip the first son of a bitch that turns this into a Civil War tard fest. Nelson Mandella Boom. Neklacing people is no fucking joke 
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:40:06 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
In response to this thread: Who is remembered by history as a fool or villian but got a bum rap? I had a lot of responses I wanted to make in that thread, but most of em fell under this category. My candidate would be McArthur. He was a lying, egomaniacal mommy's boy who was completely ineffective in the early stages of the Japanese invasion of the Philippines, and effectively went rogue in Korea, provoking the Chinese. He operated a command isolated from the US Government in the Korean War, and frequently made political moves completely outside of his scope as a military commander. Biographies describe his sick fascination with his mother, and from an early age he was surrounded by sycophants and yes men. He created a world around himself where he could do no wrong, and every misstep he made he blamed on others. He had a pathological aversion to taking responsibility for his actions, which often ended up getting men killed. By the end of his career, he was so mentally off his rocker it was a shitshow getting him reigned in. Your candidates? Of course, this being GD, the first name I expect is Abraham Lincoln, but I swear to god I will pistol whip the first son of a bitch that turns this into a Civil War tard fest. Wait, are we talking about McArthur or Obama? 
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:46:03 AM EDT
[#8]
Obviously, Lincoln. How could you leave him out?
It reminds me of the "What was the best 105mm Tank" thread, where the OP left out the M-1. 
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:52:50 AM EDT
[#9]
Abe
Franklin Rosenfelt Churchill |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:55:36 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Obviously, Lincoln. How could you leave him out? It reminds me of the "What was the best 105mm Tank" thread, where the OP left out the M-1. Ah yes, honest Abe. The beginning of the end of the Republic. Pretty sure Benjamin Franklin would have poked him in the eye had he still been alive, after Abe went to war with his own country when they wouldn't follow his every whim. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 1:59:16 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Abe Franklin Rosenfelt Churchill I would be curious as to your reasoning behind choosing Churchill. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:05:27 AM EDT
[#12]
Mandela
MacArthur Obama FDR Mao Malcolm X JFK |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:06:51 AM EDT
[#13]
MLK. Title 2 of the Civil Rights Act has done more to erode personal freedom in the country than anything else. On top of that had he lived he would have spearheaded a movement to steal from every American with means and hand it out. He intended to occupy DC with an army of rabble to do so.
Malcolm X was a far better civil rights crusader and called the Black Muslim movement out and was killed for it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_People's_Campaign |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:07:49 AM EDT
[#14]
Anyone that tries to talk up Mandela get a STFU from me. They don't know the history of that ape.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:47:20 AM EDT
[#15]
Mother Teresa
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Posted: 10/21/2014 2:56:57 AM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:06:41 AM EDT
[#17]
Jesus H. Christ
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:14:06 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mother Teresa |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:20:42 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Mother Teresa How is that? |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 3:24:11 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Che Gueverra Nobody thinks Che is a hero except nutty ass leftists. My vote is for Mandela. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 4:11:56 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is that? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Mother Teresa How is that? share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." There were several other shady financial dealing, including donations from communist leaders, dictators that stole money from their people and business men who embezzled funds, she even testified for leniency for one of them when he was caught |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 4:13:48 AM EDT
[#22]
Supertramp.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 4:14:07 AM EDT
[#23]
Reagan
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Posted: 10/21/2014 4:17:31 AM EDT
[#24]
Lincoln. They built statues for the man responsible for more dead Americans than anyone.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 4:57:44 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would be curious as to your reasoning behind choosing Churchill. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Abe Franklin Rosenfelt Churchill I would be curious as to your reasoning behind choosing Churchill. There is strong evidence that he deliberately set up the Luciitainia to be sunk in order to draw us into WWI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania#Conspiracies |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 4:59:50 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reagan 
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:04:48 AM EDT
[#27]
Tesla, he was bat shit insane and the vast majority of his work is that of a raving mad man. A blind squirrel and a nut (pun intended) and all that.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:05:56 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is strong evidence that he deliberately set up the Luciitainia to be sunk in order to draw us into WWI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania#Conspiracies Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Abe Franklin Rosenfelt Churchill I would be curious as to your reasoning behind choosing Churchill. There is strong evidence that he deliberately set up the Luciitainia to be sunk in order to draw us into WWI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania#Conspiracies Because of a conspiracy theory??? |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:13:03 AM EDT
[#29]
JFK. A man child when it came to foreign policy.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:22:25 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: In response to this thread: Who is remembered by history as a fool or villian but got a bum rap? I had a lot of responses I wanted to make in that thread, but most of em fell under this category. "Fool or villain" is often a matter of perspective. So my "fools or villains"... Click To View Spoiler |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:28:32 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boom. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In response to this thread: Who is remembered by history as a fool or villian but got a bum rap? I had a lot of responses I wanted to make in that thread, but most of em fell under this category. My candidate would be McArthur. He was a lying, egomaniacal mommy's boy who was completely ineffective in the early stages of the Japanese invasion of the Philippines, and effectively went rogue in Korea, provoking the Chinese. He operated a command isolated from the US Government in the Korean War, and frequently made political moves completely outside of his scope as a military commander. Biographies describe his sick fascination with his mother, and from an early age he was surrounded by sycophants and yes men. He created a world around himself where he could do no wrong, and every misstep he made he blamed on others. He had a pathological aversion to taking responsibility for his actions, which often ended up getting men killed. By the end of his career, he was so mentally off his rocker it was a shitshow getting him reigned in. Your candidates? Of course, this being GD, the first name I expect is Abraham Lincoln, but I swear to god I will pistol whip the first son of a bitch that turns this into a Civil War tard fest. Nelson Mandella Boom. Just searched "dark side of Nelson Mandela" on google and learned a whole lot about that man. I never knew all the dirty shit he was involved in...... Crazy. (Also I'm pretty damn ashamed that I had never heard ANY of it before) |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:30:31 AM EDT
[#32]
Churchill.
Beside him sacrificing the passengers on the Lusitania he was a dangerous drunk. It's now come out that almost those famous old evening radio broadcasts you have heard of him was made by his impersonator, its not his voice at all that was recorded, but someone that sounded like him reading a speech written by the propagandists. This BTW was admitted by both the impersonator and is detailed in the British archives. Fact was old Winny was too drunk by 5PM to do any evening speeches. Many accounts of him going into war meetings shit faced falling down making all sorts slurred rambling comments. The top British Admiralty had attested to many such meetings. Not only that there was a documented incident where he called bomber command in such a state and ordered the chemical bombing of German cities. This at a time when the Germans possessed large stockpiles of nerve gas much more powerful than the Brits but was not willing to use it. This drunken fool would have changed that. Luckily bomber command knew he was drunk and ignored him. That and for the propganda "we can take it" drivel from him during the blitz, not one time was he anywhere near any bombing as he had prior knowledge as to when to run due to code cracking. Many times he would be notified when and where the bombers where coming at would not give anyone including his staff any knowledge to save them nor civilians, but made sure his driver got him the hell out of the incoming path, then he would show up the day after, like look I'm right here with you for photo ops. This was documented by many including his driver after the war. Fact is Churchill was a drunk, a war criminal and a coward. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:31:23 AM EDT
[#33]
Add obama to the list. The history books will be written to show his vast great legacy as the hero to beat all heroes.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:33:21 AM EDT
[#34]
FDR
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:34:39 AM EDT
[#35]
Jesus
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:36:56 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Churchill. Beside him sacrificing the passengers on the Lusitania he was a dangerous drunk. It's now come out that almost those famous old evening radio broadcasts you have heard of him was made by his impersonator, its not his voice at all that was recorded, but someone that sounded like him reading a speech written by the propagandists. This BTW was admitted by both the impersonator and is detailed in the British archives. Fact was old Winny was too drunk by 5PM to do any evening speeches. Many accounts of him going into war meetings shit faced falling down making all sorts slurred rambling comments. The top British Admiralty had attested to many such meetings. Not only that there was a documented incident where he called bomber command in such a state and ordered the chemical bombing of German cities. This at a time when the Germans possessed large stockpile of nerve gas much more powerful than the Brits had but was not willing to use it. This drunken fool would have changed that. Luckily bomber command knew he was drunk and ignored him. That and for the propganda "we can take it" drivel from him during the blitz, not one time was he anywhere near any bombing as he had prior knowledge as to when to run due to code cracking. Many times he would be notified when and where the bombers where coming at would not give anyone including his staff any knowledge to save them nor civilians, but made sure his driver got him the hell out of the incoming path, then he would show up the day after, like look I'm right here with you for photo ops. This was documented by many including his driver after the war. Fact is Churchill was a drunk, a war criminal and a coward. Did you make all that up yourself, or did you find it in one of the Churchill hate books? Churchill is well known to have liked a drink. Beyond that your post is drivel. 
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:38:36 AM EDT
[#37]
clinton and lincoln
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:41:48 AM EDT
[#38]
This is really shaping up to be an epic thread.
In!
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:48:16 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because of a conspiracy theory??? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Abe Franklin Rosenfelt Churchill I would be curious as to your reasoning behind choosing Churchill. There is strong evidence that he deliberately set up the Luciitainia to be sunk in order to draw us into WWI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania#Conspiracies Because of a conspiracy theory??? I have seen a show or two about it, and it's a bit more that a theory. Don't worry about it though. We aren't pissed off about it or anything. 
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Posted: 10/21/2014 5:53:55 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have seen a show or two about it, and it's a bit more that a theory. Don't worry about it though. We aren't pissed off about it or anything. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Abe Franklin Rosenfelt Churchill I would be curious as to your reasoning behind choosing Churchill. There is strong evidence that he deliberately set up the Luciitainia to be sunk in order to draw us into WWI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania#Conspiracies Because of a conspiracy theory??? I have seen a show or two about it, and it's a bit more that a theory. Don't worry about it though. We aren't pissed off about it or anything. Most liners used to carry cargo, including military cargo. They were a major means of transporting goods and raw materials in bulk at the time. The other points made in the conspiracy theory don't stand up to scrutiny either. Churchill has been the target of many attempts to discredit him. It's worth checking things out before drawing any conclusions. 
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Posted: 10/21/2014 6:03:50 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Pofilling Agent_Funky: Did you make all that up yourself, or did you find it in one of the Churchill hate books? Churchill is well known to have liked a drink. Beyond that your post is drivel. Quote HistoryOriginally Pofilling Agent_Funky: Originally Postedlash47: Churchill. Beside him sacrificing the passengershe Lusitania he was a dangerous drunk. It's now come out that almost those famous old evening radio broadcasts you have heard of him was made by his impersonator, its not his voice at all that was recorded, but someone that sounded like him reading a speech written by the propagandists. This BTW was admitted by both the impersonator and is detailed in the British archives. Fact was old Winny was too drunk by 5PM to do any evening speeches. Many accounts of him going into war meetings shit faced falling down making all sorts slurred rambling comments. The top British Admiralty had attested to many such meetings. Not only that there was a documented incident where he called bomber command in such a state and ordered the chemical bombing of German cities. This at a time when the Germans possessed large stockpile of nerve gas much more powerful than the Brits had but was not willing to use it. This drunken fool would have changed that. Luckily bomber command knew he was drunk and ignored him. That and for the propganda "we can take it" drivel from him during the blitz, not one time was he anywhere near any bombing as he had prior knowledge as to when to run due to code cracking. Many times he would be notified when and where the bombers where coming at would not give anyone including his staff any knowledge to save them nor civilians, but made sure his driver got him the hell out of the incoming path, then he would show up the day after, like look I'm right here with you for photo ops. This was documented by many including his driver after the war. Fact is Churchill was a drunk, a war criminal and a coward. Did you make all that up yourself, or did you find it in one of the Churchill hate books? Churchill is well known to have liked a drink. Beyond that your post is drivel. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 6:13:34 AM EDT
[#42]
FDR
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Posted: 10/21/2014 6:13:47 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because of a conspiracy theory??? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Abe Franklin Rosenfelt Churchill I would be curious as to your reasoning behind choosing Churchill. There is strong evidence that he deliberately set up the Luciitainia to be sunk in order to draw us into WWI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania#Conspiracies Because of a conspiracy theory??? No kidding. Forget his incredible leadership and balls during some of the most dire times in world history......let's ride a conspiracy theory and replace all those pesky facts.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 6:17:56 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jesus 
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Posted: 10/21/2014 6:18:41 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Supertramp. McCandless? Yeah he was an idiot in some ways and died because of it. On the other hand, he was livin his life the way he wanted and seemed like he thoroughly enjoyed it when he did. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 6:19:11 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most liners used to carry cargo, including military cargo. They were a major means of transporting goods and raw materials in bulk at the time. The other points made in the conspiracy theory don't stand up to scrutiny either. Churchill has been the target of many attempts to discredit him. It's worth checking things out before drawing any conclusions. I wasn't referring to the cargo, but the memos he wrote that are a matter of public record. "It is most important to attract neutral shipping to our shores in the hope especially of embroiling the United States with Germany . . . . For our part we want the traffic — the more the better; and if some of it gets into trouble, better still." He wrote that. There were obviously other circumstances that led to the Lusitania sinking, and I wouldn't go so far as to say it was done on purpose, but there is no denying that it achieved his stated goal. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 6:23:22 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jesus How so? No bashing will be involved just curious. |
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Posted: 10/21/2014 6:26:22 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, im not following that, though there are some legitimate criticisms from his time as First Sea Lord and the invasion of Gallipoli. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Originally Pofilling Agent_Funky:
Originally Postedlash47:
Churchill. Beside him sacrificing the passengershe Lusitania he was a dangerous drunk. It's now come out that almost those famous old evening radio broadcasts you have heard of him was made by his impersonator, its not his voice at all that was recorded, but someone that sounded like him reading a speech written by the propagandists. This BTW was admitted by both the impersonator and is detailed in the British archives. Fact was old Winny was too drunk by 5PM to do any evening speeches. Many accounts of him going into war meetings shit faced falling down making all sorts slurred rambling comments. The top British Admiralty had attested to many such meetings. Not only that there was a documented incident where he called bomber command in such a state and ordered the chemical bombing of German cities. This at a time when the Germans possessed large stockpile of nerve gas much more powerful than the Brits had but was not willing to use it. This drunken fool would have changed that. Luckily bomber command knew he was drunk and ignored him. That and for the propganda "we can take it" drivel from him during the blitz, not one time was he anywhere near any bombing as he had prior knowledge as to when to run due to code cracking. Many times he would be notified when and where the bombers where coming at would not give anyone including his staff any knowledge to save them nor civilians, but made sure his driver got him the hell out of the incoming path, then he would show up the day after, like look I'm right here with you for photo ops. This was documented by many including his driver after the war. Fact is Churchill was a drunk, a war criminal and a coward. Did you make all that up yourself, or did you find it in one of the Churchill hate books? Churchill is well known to have liked a drink. Beyond that your post is drivel.
For sure. I don't think there is a leader anywhere who cannot be held accountable or criticised for some screw up that happened on their watch and with their input. Hindsight is always 20/20 and there are always additional actors in any scenario that can throw a curveball into any decisions made. There is a tendency to pick on individual events rather than look at the overall picture, and Churchill has long been a controversial figure for those who want to discredit him. In reality he was prolific as a leader and had a long and distinguished public facing career from a early age, and was one of the first to have his life scrutinised under a microscope as a modern leader, with lots of interpretations of that recorded information by people with various agendas. Fact remains that Churchill was one of the most effective and highly regarded leaders of our time. Nobody thinks he was perfect but he was far from a fool, or a villain.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 6:36:29 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
She took in a lot of money to help the poor, sick and, dying, but did little more than warehouse them until they died. Some of her centers were kept empty. The medical care was non-existant and the money instead was used to convert people to Christianity, including baptizing the dying regardless of their religious beliefs, or given right to the Vatican. She personally refused to authorize the funds for purchasing medical equipment. Many of her care givers had no medical training and the their care consisted of cleaning the patients and kindness. They would house everyone together, so the people who could recover from their illnesses contracted the contagious and often fatal illness of the others. When asked if she teaches poor people to accept being poor she said "I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." There were several other shady financial dealing, including donations from communist leaders, dictators that stole money from their people and business men who embezzled funds, she even testified for leniency for one of them when he was caught Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mother Teresa How is that? There were several other shady financial dealing, including donations from communist leaders, dictators that stole money from their people and business men who embezzled funds, she even testified for leniency for one of them when he was caught Penn & Teller talk to some nuns who worked with and quit Mother Teresa's group. Enlightening. 
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Posted: 10/21/2014 6:39:32 AM EDT
[#50]
colin powell
john mccain |
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