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Posted: 10/20/2014 3:08:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nothing replaces the ACOG because nothing legit has the ACOG look. You want people to instantly recognize your optic and not think you're poor people right? page two is for ballers |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 3:22:51 PM EDT
[#2]
my ACOG cured me of the dreaded Maggie's Drawers disease.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 3:33:18 PM EDT
[#3]
I picked up a brand new TA33 with the red crosshair for around $725 from a large retailer. It was $799 on sale plus I had a 10% off coupon and free shipping. I put it in a Larue mount and I love mine.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 3:34:28 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing replaces the ACOG because nothing legit has the ACOG look. You want people to instantly recognize your optic and not think you're poor people right? Fuck ya. And I need that genuine battlefield use quality for when I'm shooting at the range twice a year. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 3:35:36 PM EDT
[#5]
One of the biggest challenges is going to be keeping weight down at a given magnification level. ACOGs are about as light as you can get for their size/magnification without sacrificing durability. While some of the 1-4x options work just as well from the bench, they also weigh considerably more when combined with rings/mounts.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 3:38:20 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 10/20/2014 3:42:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
why? you dont shoot low light? I do, and like my TA01, ordering a new TA11e next week. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just buy one used with dead tritium. The tritium is as useless as teats on a boar why? you dont shoot low light? I do, and like my TA01, ordering a new TA11e next week. in low light, fiber optic is still carrying most of the load. just compared to what it looks like in a pitch black room. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 3:44:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just buy one used with dead tritium. This. I really like my ACOG and have not regretted buying it. But for me, the tritium is not important and if I could have found one in good shape with a depleted tritium I would have bought it. The glass, fiber optic and quality is why I bought the ACOG. The tritium is a nice bonus but not a necessity IMO. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 3:50:18 PM EDT
[#9]
The picatinny mount version of the 1P78 Kashtan with the German post reticle instead of the 5.45 bdc. 2.8X with short eye relief and incredible field of view and tritium illumination. I have the side mount AK version. Basically the Russian version of an ACOG for the AK. It is an excellent scope. Would be cool to see one on an AR. Only problem is it might sit too low for a rear back up sight.
http://kalinkaoptics.com/rifle-scopes/red-dot/kashtan-1p78-tactical-combat-scope-w-solar-dual-black-green-german-post-reticle-picatinny-mount.html |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 4:07:01 PM EDT
[#10]
I'm kinda hoping the Primary Arms Compact goes on sale for black friday...
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Posted: 10/20/2014 4:08:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryJust buy one used with dead tritium. The tritium is as useless as teats on a boar IMHO the battery powered ACOGs are better than tritium/fiber optic. Lower power consumption circuitry has reduced power consumption and increased batter life so much you can simply leave it on all the time, which was the whole point of using tritium instead of batteries in the first place. If it makes you feel better think of the battery as a cheap, replaceable tritium vial that doesn't have any radiation. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 4:44:05 PM EDT
[#12]
The other not mentioned option is the Elcan.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 4:46:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The other not mentioned option is the Elcan. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yeah, you can pick them up pretty cheap nowadays. 
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Posted: 10/20/2014 4:50:46 PM EDT
[#14]
A lot of people mount Leupold 1x-4x and the little 2.5x on heavy recoiling dangerous game rifles because they are very durable and have great eye relief.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 4:58:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
2 is 1, one is none. When his iron sights break, he has an ACOG on there for backup. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:This, I have a Magpul BUS under my TA31F. You are backing up pretty much the strongest site ever with pretty much the weakest irons ever. (Unless you have the pro's those are ok) Irons are already weaker than ACOGs, let alone if they are plastic. Why bother? 2 is 1, one is none. When his iron sights break, he has an ACOG on there for backup. I dont have buis on my acog'd carbine either, mine's a ta01 with the peephole site built on. i figure if i need 3 layers of redundancy, shit is really really bad and i'm likely already dead. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 5:02:59 PM EDT
[#16]
I bought this Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T for $400 used. Battery operated, but the reticle is always there. Variable power Red Dot. I like it. Sorry I took this photo with my old iPhone 4 Potato. I've but a BUIS on it since this photo
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Posted: 10/20/2014 5:03:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have 2 of those. They are nice. Never used an acog outside of a video game though, so no real point of comparison. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have 2 of those. They are nice. Never used an acog outside of a video game though, so no real point of comparison. They really aren't the same animal. They are equivalent to a Trijicon Reflex, which they were superior to until the RX34 and 43 came out. I have had a lot of Reflex sights, ACOGs, and a Mepro 21-overtime was very good for a while there. IYAM, the Reflex sights will meet 90% of your typical needs on a rifle, and a TA33 covers the rest. Eye relief is good on the TA33, BDC out to 600m is as far as anyone realistically needs to shoot someone unless it's TEOTWAWKI, and, well, it's an ACOG. Buy Used if money is an issue. You never regret buying Quality.... Buy cheap and you'll Buy Twice-how much do you really save? |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 5:05:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a PAC4X on my 18" rifle, and I like it a lot. It's not quite as sharp as an actual ACOG, but it's got a little more eye relief, and the ballistic reticle is a nice feature. I'd say it's an 75-80% substitute for 25-30% of the price, and that's good enough for me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I like the Primary Arms Compact AR scopes for the cheaper end choice. Currently using the PAC 2.5X with the ACSS "Koala" reticule. It works extremely well. I have a PAC4X on my 18" rifle, and I like it a lot. It's not quite as sharp as an actual ACOG, but it's got a little more eye relief, and the ballistic reticle is a nice feature. I'd say it's an 75-80% substitute for 25-30% of the price, and that's good enough for me. We learned that "Good Enough" really is good enough at the Appleseed long range class. Unless you buy optics so bad they don't hold zero, hitting out to 4-600 meters is more a matter of your own shortcomings as a Rifleman than your gun, ammo, or optics. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 5:13:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Burris AR332 or the 5x version is your next cheapest option in that class, as far as I know.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 5:35:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMHO the battery powered ACOGs are better than tritium/fiber optic. Lower power consumption circuitry has reduced power consumption and increased batter life so much you can simply leave it on all the time, which was the whole point of using tritium instead of batteries in the first place. If it makes you feel better think of the battery as a cheap, replaceable tritium vial that doesn't have any radiation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just buy one used with dead tritium. The tritium is as useless as teats on a boar IMHO the battery powered ACOGs are better than tritium/fiber optic. Lower power consumption circuitry has reduced power consumption and increased batter life so much you can simply leave it on all the time, which was the whole point of using tritium instead of batteries in the first place. If it makes you feel better think of the battery as a cheap, replaceable tritium vial that doesn't have any radiation. I think of batteries as a liability for two reasons: 1) You hear of more sights/optics being damaged by leaked battery acid than you do failures of the optics themselves. 2) Guns are forever-batteries are not. Very few consumer goods are being made for primary batteries (think: Round replaceable cells) as the world goes to Lithium based batteries One can argue that the Tritium will eventually be dead in an ACOG, but I have an ACOG that is past it's 12.5 year half life and it's still very useful. In 12 years, it will have half of that half left, or 1/4 of the tritium it started with. At the moment, it's not worth it to me to get it filled because it still works....... that, and if you are honest with yourself and know anything about ACOG's, if it's so dark that you are relying on the tritium to light the reticle, you won't be able to positively ID a target either. The fiber optic lighting does a fantastic job down to light levels that make shooting at a person questionable at best, the Tritium just extends that capability into complete darkness. BTW, for those that don't know: Tritium brightness has a lot to do with the color of the reticle and your own eye. Some people don't see certain colors well, but of the three colors Trijicon sells, Red sucks the worst all around, Green is the brightest during the day with good contrast for urban environments, and Amber is best for rural environments and low light. You eye is most sensitive to Amber in low light, that's why Trijicon uses it rather than "Tactical Red" as their default color. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 5:41:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Save your pennies collect cans and buy an ACOG
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Posted: 10/20/2014 5:47:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Leupold Mk4 CQT? |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 6:03:42 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. I really like my ACOG and have not regretted buying it. But for me, the tritium is not important and if I could have found one in good shape with a depleted tritium I would have bought it. The glass, fiber optic and quality is why I bought the ACOG. The tritium is a nice bonus but not a necessity IMO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just buy one used with dead tritium. This. I really like my ACOG and have not regretted buying it. But for me, the tritium is not important and if I could have found one in good shape with a depleted tritium I would have bought it. The glass, fiber optic and quality is why I bought the ACOG. The tritium is a nice bonus but not a necessity IMO. at night, (without nvg), tritium alone will allow you to Mozambique at 100+yds easy |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 6:21:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty much, I have done a ton of deployments with ACOGs and no BUIS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why? Because the glass on the ACOG is unbreakable? Pretty much, I have done a ton of deployments with ACOGs and no BUIS. I don't always agree with RA, but I'll agree with him on this. Anything that's going to break an ACOG is probably also going to break the rifle, the rifleman, or both. Fun anecdote: I served with a close friend that was blown off his feet and mostly incapacitated by an IED. His ACOG didn't break and held zero. The other issue with an ACOG + BUIS is deployment of the BUIS. You either need offset mounts for the BUIS or a QD option for the ACOG to even pretend you're going to use the BUIS. Again, this assumes that whatever breaks your ACOG doesn't break you, your rifle, or your BUIS. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 6:25:32 PM EDT
[#25]
The TA33s occasionally go for $700-750 on sale at opticsplanet
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Posted: 10/20/2014 6:37:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't always agree with RA, but I'll agree with him on this. Anything that's going to break an ACOG is probably also going to break the rifle, the rifleman, or both. Fun anecdote: I served with a close friend that was blown off his feet and mostly incapacitated by an IED. His ACOG didn't break and held zero. The other issue with an ACOG + BUIS is deployment of the BUIS. You either need offset mounts for the BUIS or a QD option for the ACOG to even pretend you're going to use the BUIS. Again, this assumes that whatever breaks your ACOG doesn't break you, your rifle, or your BUIS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why? Because the glass on the ACOG is unbreakable? Pretty much, I have done a ton of deployments with ACOGs and no BUIS. I don't always agree with RA, but I'll agree with him on this. Anything that's going to break an ACOG is probably also going to break the rifle, the rifleman, or both. Fun anecdote: I served with a close friend that was blown off his feet and mostly incapacitated by an IED. His ACOG didn't break and held zero. The other issue with an ACOG + BUIS is deployment of the BUIS. You either need offset mounts for the BUIS or a QD option for the ACOG to even pretend you're going to use the BUIS. Again, this assumes that whatever breaks your ACOG doesn't break you, your rifle, or your BUIS. Exactly. If your ACOG takes a direct hit so violent that it is rendered useless, you will not be flipping your MBUS and getting back in the fight. You won't. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 7:18:11 PM EDT
[#27]
I don't use glass as a crutch, I use it as a luxury. All of my AR's have fixed-like BUIS, with glass on them as an add-on. Your primary focus should always be to keep your fixed sights skill sharp.
It's worked for WW I, WW II, Korea, Vietnam, GW I, on. Marines will tell you it's a perishable skill. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 8:10:52 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing replaces the ACOG because nothing legit has the ACOG look. You want people to instantly recognize your optic and not think you're poor people right? I have a fake cog and it's the general shape even has the 'back up sights' on top..people confuse it for an ACOG all the time haha 
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Posted: 10/20/2014 8:44:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. If your ACOG takes a direct hit so violent that it is rendered useless, you will not be flipping your MBUS and getting back in the fight. You won't. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why? Because the glass on the ACOG is unbreakable? Pretty much, I have done a ton of deployments with ACOGs and no BUIS. I don't always agree with RA, but I'll agree with him on this. Anything that's going to break an ACOG is probably also going to break the rifle, the rifleman, or both. Fun anecdote: I served with a close friend that was blown off his feet and mostly incapacitated by an IED. His ACOG didn't break and held zero. The other issue with an ACOG + BUIS is deployment of the BUIS. You either need offset mounts for the BUIS or a QD option for the ACOG to even pretend you're going to use the BUIS. Again, this assumes that whatever breaks your ACOG doesn't break you, your rifle, or your BUIS. Exactly. If your ACOG takes a direct hit so violent that it is rendered useless, you will not be flipping your MBUS and getting back in the fight. You won't. Inside looked like looking through a snow storm.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 8:51:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I broke an ACOG. I fell and the ACOG hit first. Inside looked like looking through a snow storm. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why? Because the glass on the ACOG is unbreakable? Pretty much, I have done a ton of deployments with ACOGs and no BUIS. I don't always agree with RA, but I'll agree with him on this. Anything that's going to break an ACOG is probably also going to break the rifle, the rifleman, or both. Fun anecdote: I served with a close friend that was blown off his feet and mostly incapacitated by an IED. His ACOG didn't break and held zero. The other issue with an ACOG + BUIS is deployment of the BUIS. You either need offset mounts for the BUIS or a QD option for the ACOG to even pretend you're going to use the BUIS. Again, this assumes that whatever breaks your ACOG doesn't break you, your rifle, or your BUIS. Exactly. If your ACOG takes a direct hit so violent that it is rendered useless, you will not be flipping your MBUS and getting back in the fight. You won't. Drop with it. And keep pushing until I'm tired.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 9:01:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Hah. Ever try to make entry into a house from the roof when the mud wall falls off?
Lulz ensued
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Posted: 10/20/2014 9:04:41 PM EDT
[#32]
If you are looking for a used ACOG, you could check out SWFA.com..they are a site sponsor...click on the "sample list" tab and they have a bunch of used optics.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 9:10:04 PM EDT
[#33]
If you want to have a 1x option for CQB go with
Burris Mtac 1-4 Primary Arms 1-6 with Acss For Compact Prism Scopes Burris Ar332 / Ar536 and Primary Arms variants Used Elcan M145 Primary arms scopes have a BDC that goes to 800 yards, Burris only 600yds |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 9:10:45 PM EDT
[#34]
I have an acog for sale in the ee
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Posted: 10/20/2014 9:11:43 PM EDT
[#35]
buy once cry once there is NO other way with optics
I wish it wasn't true |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 9:47:44 PM EDT
[#36]
The PA 4x compact is hell for stout and that reticle as busy as it initially looks is super usable and very fast at all ranges past 50 yards or so with a little practice. Hell of a service customer service program should the need arise. One nice thing is it uses acog mounts, so you can get a super duper, mega expensive whiz bang mount and if you end up with an acog in the future you can use the mount it and use the supplied mount for the pac4x which could save a hefty chunk of change.
The reticle in things is dead balls on (all the acss reticules I've used so far have been, only been 4 but all different and that should say something at least). For an acog substitute, I personally think these are next best option hands down. Only things I wish would be improved are longer battery life and less weight. That said I recommend these optics alot as a alternative to acog for the budget minded and have zero reservations doing so,I just think they are the bee's knees. Also works awesome on an a2 handle (that's where mine resides most of the time, but it goes on the 15-22 every now and again just to get practice getting flash sight pictures and shooting fast without going broke. Not using any of the ranging capabilities at all). Speaking of that all the ranging brackets are on for distance and VERY QUICK AND EASY to use for the purpose they are designed for. That reticle is amazing and takes shooting with one to really appreciate it for what it is. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 10:05:21 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why? Because the glass on the ACOG is unbreakable? Any weapon I'm using for defense is going to have a BUIS. http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/AR-15_Paul/Rifles/FourARsCloser_zpsd8f9deb0.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I got a TA31F, put it in a Larue mount, then sold it. The eye relief was unacceptable for with BUIS. You're doing it wrong if you have an ACOG and BUIS on the same rifle. Why? Because the glass on the ACOG is unbreakable? Any weapon I'm using for defense is going to have a BUIS. http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/AR-15_Paul/Rifles/FourARsCloser_zpsd8f9deb0.jpg ACOGs are pretty close to unbreakable. A lot harder to break than BUIS. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 10:10:50 PM EDT
[#38]
Seriously try the Primary Arms 2.5, yes its made in china and they don't hide that, but its hard to complain about it once you use it.
BTW, I'm a NF fan when I want to see far, and this thing a quite a surprise. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 10:15:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You eye is most sensitive to Amber in low light, that's why Trijicon uses it rather than "Tactical Red" as their default color. No, your eye is most sensitive to green in any light. That's why green lasers at .5mw look much brighter than red at .5mw. Red is good for low light because it doesn't spoil your dark-adapted vision because of the way your eyes work. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2007/SusanZhao.shtml |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 10:16:25 PM EDT
[#40]
I absolutely LOVE my PA Compact 4x with the ACSS. The recticule is very useful for ranging, and as far as I can tell the wind corrections are spot-on. I like it better than I did the issued ACOGs. True, it uses batteries rather than tritum, but the CR2032 is the most common coin battery in the world, and I keep an extra in the stock. The mounts are standard ACOG, so you can buy a nice LaRue QD mount, or stick it in a carry handle.
It's heavier than an ACOG, but it seems just as tough. Like I said, it suits my needs very well. I'd recommend it in the 4X or 2.5X flavor, depending on what you need. I've actually got a Trijicon RMR as a back-up, but that's probably overkill and might get moved to something else in the future. The 4X is still usable in close quarters fairly easily, and the 2.5X would be even better in that regard. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 10:21:43 PM EDT
[#41]
1. Buy used or wait for sale
2. Buy a compact ACOG Real ACOG but at much less than a full size. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 10:23:34 PM EDT
[#42]
I really like my Primary Arms 3x compact, and all I've heard is the 2.5 and 4 are even better.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 10:24:12 PM EDT
[#43]
I'm into this TA01 ACOG for about $400 used. Works great, tritium works great, even has the silly BUIS on top
I actually like the reticle for a precise aiming point too. 
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Posted: 10/20/2014 10:59:14 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Nothing replaces the ACOG because nothing legit has the ACOG look. You want people to instantly recognize your optic and not think you're poor people right? ACOGs are for poor people, or for use as backups to real sights.  |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 11:19:49 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nothing replaces the ACOG because nothing legit has the ACOG look. You want people to instantly recognize your optic and not think you're poor people right? ACOGs are for poor people, or for use as backups to real sights.  |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 11:28:17 PM EDT
[#46]
Save your pennies and buy a real ACOG. I thought that I would only need one. Then I got a family and I have four. Try one with a docter or RMR if you have a hard on for buis. My last one was an ECOS that has both an RMR and irons on the side.
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Posted: 10/20/2014 11:39:54 PM EDT
[#47]
I picked up one of these (not my pic) barely used for $400. IOR Valdada 3x25. It's brick heavy, but the glass is very good and it would take a direct hit from an orbital nuke. Mine has an illuminated reticule, pretty sure they all do.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:02:01 AM EDT
[#48]
I have a PA 2.5 and it's solid as a hammer with very clear glass for the money. I'm selling it because I'm going in a different section with the rifle it's on, but if I had another rifle to use it on, I'd have no complaints.
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:06:50 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm into this TA01 ACOG for about $400 used. Works great, tritium works great, even has the silly BUIS on top
I actually like the reticle for a precise aiming point too. http://i.imgur.com/F0keMsHl.jpg wanna sell it?
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Posted: 10/21/2014 12:09:06 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're doing it wrong if you have an ACOG and BUIS on the same rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I got a TA31F, put it in a Larue mount, then sold it. The eye relief was unacceptable for with BUIS. You're doing it wrong if you have an ACOG and BUIS on the same rifle. Wat? |
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