User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 1:26:37 PM EDT
[#1]
That looks a hell of a lot like a squib that got past the gas port and cycled the next round before blocking the bore.
If there's an obstruction just forward of the gas port, you'll know what happened. Drop a rod down the muzzle. Of course I have no idea if the obstruction would still be there, but you might be able to see something where it was when you get the thing unstuck. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 1:29:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whoever sold him that ammo owes him a new upper. Poor kid. For the record, arfcom and it's plethora of knowledge has taught me the dangers of reloads and I avoid them like the plague Lowers probably damaged as well. mag well usually bows. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 1:31:21 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But yeah, if LC headstamped ammo made a gun explode, my money is not on it being LCAAP made. What is LCAAP? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 1:31:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Without knowing EXACTLY what kind of powder was used, this is absolutely pointless. There are many safe pressure loads that are compression loads. Totally depends on the type of powder. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
be sure to pull a couple rounds of the ammo and see how much powder is in them Without knowing EXACTLY what kind of powder was used, this is absolutely pointless. There are many safe pressure loads that are compression loads. Totally depends on the type of powder. true but some of the guys in the reloading forum may be able to help ID the powder and if pulling them yields inconsistent amounts of powder it will explain a lot. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 1:33:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
]Nope, LCAAP is operated by ATK, the parent company of Federal Cartridge Company. The laws regarding GOCO production have not changed, there can be no over runs sold on the commercial market. The only way for actual LCAAP production to enter commercial market is foreign sales that have been sold as surplus, overseas, and then imported back to the US. Federal has been making us think they are actual LCAAP, down to the use of similar colored sealants. But the SCAMP process leaves several distinguishing marks, namely bullet and primer crimp. What is GOCO and SCAMP? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 2:11:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is GOCO and SCAMP? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
]Nope, LCAAP is operated by ATK, the parent company of Federal Cartridge Company. The laws regarding GOCO production have not changed, there can be no over runs sold on the commercial market. The only way for actual LCAAP production to enter commercial market is foreign sales that have been sold as surplus, overseas, and then imported back to the US. Federal has been making us think they are actual LCAAP, down to the use of similar colored sealants. But the SCAMP process leaves several distinguishing marks, namely bullet and primer crimp. What is GOCO and SCAMP? goco in my world means govt-owned, contractor operated ETA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_City_Army_Ammunition_Plant SCAMP must be some manufacturing process ETA again : I found a thing! https://www.scribd.com/doc/1736578/US-Army-18-Lake-City-Army-Ammunition-Plant-LCAAP-Modernization-Meeting-Commitments-of-National-Ammunition-Strategy-200801 |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 2:13:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
goco in my world means govt-owned, contractor operated ETA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_City_Army_Ammunition_Plant SCAMP must be some manufacturing process Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Nope, LCAAP is operated by ATK, the parent company of Federal Cartridge Company. The laws regarding GOCO production have not changed, there can be no over runs sold on the commercial market. The only way for actual LCAAP production to enter commercial market is foreign sales that have been sold as surplus, overseas, and then imported back to the US.
Federal has been making us think they are actual LCAAP, down to the use of similar colored sealants. But the SCAMP process leaves several distinguishing marks, namely bullet and primer crimp. What is GOCO and SCAMP? goco in my world means govt-owned, contractor operated ETA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_City_Army_Ammunition_Plant SCAMP must be some manufacturing process SCAMP is the high speed ammunition production. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 2:16:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SCAMP is the high speed ammunition production. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Nope, LCAAP is operated by ATK, the parent company of Federal Cartridge Company. The laws regarding GOCO production have not changed, there can be no over runs sold on the commercial market. The only way for actual LCAAP production to enter commercial market is foreign sales that have been sold as surplus, overseas, and then imported back to the US.
Federal has been making us think they are actual LCAAP, down to the use of similar colored sealants. But the SCAMP process leaves several distinguishing marks, namely bullet and primer crimp. What is GOCO and SCAMP? goco in my world means govt-owned, contractor operated ETA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_City_Army_Ammunition_Plant SCAMP must be some manufacturing process SCAMP is the high speed ammunition production. i've worked on many projects where the first phase of onboarding is trying to commit to memory an insane volume of acronyms as well as generally scrambling around trying to find decent computer hardware to work on.. and somewhere to sit... |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 2:39:26 PM EDT
[#9]
I also had an AR-15 blow up. I managed to get the brass case out of the chamber. The upper receiver and bolt and bolt carrier were destroyed. The barrel was just fine because all the pressure went out the back end. The case in the chamber looked as if someone had EDM machined a channel the width of the primer at the 3 O'clock position.
I sent ammo from that lot off to a lab for testing, and they said that they set max pressures at 60,000 (I forget if that was CPU or PSI), and ALL the ammo in that lot was very consistently around 49,000 PSI with an extremely low variance between rounds. The powder manufacturer said that the powder was designed for 5.56 rounds and if you scooped a case full, and compressed a bullet on top of it, you couldn't develop enough pressure to go over max. As the rifle had been shot many times before with that ammo, the lab's conclusion was that I had a faulty cartridge case. They said that this happens very rarely, but it does happen. Fortunately, no one was hurt, although it did frighten the royal crap out of my wife. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 2:47:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is what happens when you purchase from PSA. Their manufacturing is obviously by a bunch of incompetents, it also explains the very cheap pricing... ETA: You get what you pay for. 13ers wonder why they get the "13er" thrown in their face. lc03? $20 says its reloads. go check his spent brass. the primers aren't crimped in place are they? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 2:52:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I also had an AR-15 blow up. I managed to get the brass case out of the chamber. The upper receiver and bolt and bolt carrier were destroyed. The barrel was just fine because all the pressure went out the back end. The case in the chamber looked as if someone had EDM machined a channel the width of the primer at the 3 O'clock position. I sent ammo from that lot off to a lab for testing, and they said that they set max pressures at 60,000 (I forget if that was CPU or PSI), and ALL the ammo in that lot was very consistently around 49,000 PSI with an extremely low variance between rounds. The powder manufacturer said that the powder was designed for 5.56 rounds and if you scooped a case full, and compressed a bullet on top of it, you couldn't develop enough pressure to go over max. As the rifle had been shot many times before with that ammo, the lab's conclusion was that I had a faulty cartridge case. They said that this happens very rarely, but it does happen. Fortunately, no one was hurt, although it did frighten the royal crap out of my wife. double tap got bit a few years back by their brass supplier. suddenly mcnetts ammo started kabooming g20s. but the pressures were spot on within saami spec. it was bad brass. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 2:52:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Is Lake City Brass a problem to reload? Or is it bad reloads (powder wrong, setback ?)
I ask because I bought some 300 LC brass once fired, polished, and swaged brass. I then resized, trimmed to length, primed and loaded. Is there something about LC brass that is a problem? IIRC I had a percentage of them that were not swaged enough to seat a new primer, for those I reamed using a primer pocket reaming tool. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 3:08:15 PM EDT
[#13]
I think it's one of two possibilities, both of which would cause overpressure problems:
1) Rounds were reloads, and one of the cases got a double charge of powder; or 2) Bullet set back into the case during its trip from the mag into the breech. That last one happened to me and I almost didn't catch it. Was using factory ammo at the range, when they called a cease fire for target changing. I had time to fire one more round, but decided to wait, so I pulled back the charging handle to eject the round from the chamber. The bullet was set back so that only 1mm of the nose was above the rim. If I had fired that round, the cartridge case would have separated (best case scenario) or it would have blown up the rifle (worst case). |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 3:36:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That looks a hell of a lot like a squib that got past the gas port and cycled the next round before blocking the bore. If there's an obstruction just forward of the gas port, you'll know what happened. Drop a rod down the muzzle. Of course I have no idea if the obstruction would still be there, but you might be able to see something where it was when you get the thing unstuck. Clear all the way to the bolt face. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 3:48:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Has anyone contacted PSA to get their opinion?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 3:50:40 PM EDT
[#16]
I cross posted in their forum and sent an IM. No reply yet.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 4:10:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The froward assist is a great way to take a fixable malfunction to a catastrophic blow out. It is also possible to leave a bullet in the chamber/leade if the round was improperly crimped of the bullet seated too far out. The round may not allow the bolt to go into battery and the bullet stays in as an obstruction. the next round will not allow the bolt to go into battery without the mechanical advantage of the forward assist then BOOM. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Squib or overcharged ammo. Would the barrel be bulged or split if it was a squib?  http://youtu.be/A5bs6epOYLw
Yeah I would bet the barrel would have a bulge. The froward assist is a great way to take a fixable malfunction to a catastrophic blow out. It is also possible to leave a bullet in the chamber/leade if the round was improperly crimped of the bullet seated too far out. The round may not allow the bolt to go into battery and the bullet stays in as an obstruction. the next round will not allow the bolt to go into battery without the mechanical advantage of the forward assist then BOOM. No, it's not gonna happen like that. 1. If you had a squib, there would be a little bang but the bolt won't cycle. 2. Then you'd have to manually cycle it. 3. If there is a bullet stuck not allowing the bolt to go into battery, you aren't going to get it into battery with the forward assist using your thumb. More like beat on it with a hammer. And if you had to do that, and still didn't have a clue that something is really wrong, you deserve to blow up the gun. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 5:08:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, it's not gonna happen like that. 1. If you had a squib, there would be a little bang but the bolt won't cycle. 2. Then you'd have to manually cycle it. 3. If there is a bullet stuck not allowing the bolt to go into battery, you aren't going to get it into battery with the forward assist using your thumb. More like beat on it with a hammer. And if you had to do that, and still didn't have a clue that something is really wrong, you deserve to blow up the gun.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Squib or overcharged ammo. Would the barrel be bulged or split if it was a squib? http://youtu.be/A5bs6epOYLw
Yeah I would bet the barrel would have a bulge. The froward assist is a great way to take a fixable malfunction to a catastrophic blow out. It is also possible to leave a bullet in the chamber/leade if the round was improperly crimped of the bullet seated too far out. The round may not allow the bolt to go into battery and the bullet stays in as an obstruction. the next round will not allow the bolt to go into battery without the mechanical advantage of the forward assist then BOOM. No, it's not gonna happen like that. 1. If you had a squib, there would be a little bang but the bolt won't cycle. 2. Then you'd have to manually cycle it. 3. If there is a bullet stuck not allowing the bolt to go into battery, you aren't going to get it into battery with the forward assist using your thumb. More like beat on it with a hammer. And if you had to do that, and still didn't have a clue that something is really wrong, you deserve to blow up the gun.
I had a squib once with WOLF ammo that was what my gunsmith called a goldilocks squib. Fucking bullet did get to the gas port, did cycle the rifle but as a short stroke and it wouldn't have if I had been running a heavy buffer. It felt "off" though so I stopped and checked. Bullet was caught just after the port. Glad I didn't fire another round. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 5:11:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
13ers wonder why they get the "13er" thrown in their face. lc03? $20 says its reloads. go check his spent brass. the primers aren't crimped in place are they? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is what happens when you purchase from PSA. Their manufacturing is obviously by a bunch of incompetents, it also explains the very cheap pricing... ETA: You get what you pay for. 13ers wonder why they get the "13er" thrown in their face. lc03? $20 says its reloads. go check his spent brass. the primers aren't crimped in place are they? Even if the primers are crimped these can still be faulty reloads. Several surplus dealers, such as patsreloading.com, have unfired brass with the primers still in place. Don't even have to resize, just reassemble. Bullet crimp would even be optional. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 5:24:27 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm no expert but does this not look like 4 different primers in these? I'm thinking reloads for sure.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 7:06:22 PM EDT
[#21]
I just ordered an upper vise block so I'm going to take the barrel off and see what is going on at that end. If I can't get the bolt out, I'll have to take it to a gunsmith.
I still have to pull the bullets from the ammo... |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 7:15:15 PM EDT
[#22]
Pull the barrel off bolt and all if it won't budge.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 7:17:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just ordered an upper vise block so I'm going to take the barrel off and see what is going on at that end. If I can't get the bolt out, I'll have to take it to a gunsmith. I still have to pull the bullets from the ammo... Im not sure if that damaged upper is going to fit in a block. Let alone take any torque because of the cracks. Just clamp the barrel, which is technically the correct way to install or remove a barrel anyways. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 7:18:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pull the barrel off bolt and all if it won't budge. The cam pin might prevent that. But if it's broken it might pull out with the barrel. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 7:21:37 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shoot PSA products at your own risk......  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is what happens when you purchase from PSA. Their manufacturing is obviously by a bunch of incompetents, it also explains the very cheap pricing... ETA: You get what you pay for. So, nothing PSA sells is any good? 
Shoot PSA products at your own risk...... I know right??? I only buy tier one Colt products that never blow up.
Without reading through the entire thread (yet), I'm calling it ammo related. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 7:21:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just ordered an upper vise block so I'm going to take the barrel off and see what is going on at that end. If I can't get the bolt out, I'll have to take it to a gunsmith. I still have to pull the bullets from the ammo... Too bad you cant mill the barrell in half to see a cross-cut of the Chamber-Barrell area. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 7:51:49 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have to pull out some examples to check, but those crimps look to me like they've been reamed. I don't see any of them actually crimped to the point of contacting the primer which is the only point of the crimp. Mixed lots of brass plus the above makes me suspect reloads. The bullets could have been pulled/salvaged from surplus, so the paint doesn't prove much. Well, I went and looked at some rounds I had that are 'xm193' with LC 09 headstamps and the crimps don't look that different from the pictures. So I don't know. (quoted myself because it works better than editing my post two pages back). |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 10:11:58 PM EDT
[#28]
I pulled all the bullets and they all looked alike in shape. I did not weigh them. The powder in each case (except the first one) was weighed. Without a microscope inspection, the powder all looked the same. See photo below.
The low was 23.9 gr. and the high was 25.3 gr. Here are the weights by headstamp: LC02 - 23.9, 24.7 LC03 - 24.9 and one I did not weigh LC04 - 24.7 LC05 - 25.2, 25.3, 24.7, 24.7, 25.3, 24.7 LC06 - 24.8, 25.3, 24.8, 25.1, 24.8, 24.8, 25.0, 24.8 LC07 - 25.0, 25.3 ETA. for correction LC12 - 24.8 FC 223 - 24.8  |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 10:17:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I pulled all the bullets and they all looked alike in shape. I did not weigh them. The powder in each case (except the first one) was weighed. Without a microscope inspection, the powder all looked the same. See photo below. The low was 23.9 gr. and the high was 25.3 gr. Here are the weights by headstamp: LC02 - 23.9, 24.7 LC03 - 24.9 and one I did not weigh LC04 - 24.7 LC05 - 25.2, 25.3, 24.7, 24.7, 25.3, 24.7 LC06 - 24.8, 25.3, 24.8, 25.1, 24.8, 24.8, 25.0, 24.8 LC07 - 25.0, 53.3 LC12 - 24.8 FC 223 - 24.8 http://i59.tinypic.com/2a5zlgx.jpg we have a winner |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 10:17:40 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Headspacing in any gun is important. Generally in ARs it is not an issue because parts are in spec. This is diffrent than saying it's not important. I have never checked Headspacing on a factory gun. Only guns I have put together or changed something on. Headspace is the distance from the bolt face to where the shoulder of the case rests in the chamber. It is the area in which the brass can expand. So it is possible to have an extention that a bolt locks into just fine but there is still excessive headspace. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Did anyone check the headspace when it was built? Since the barrel extensions are put on at the factory is there really any reason to check a head-space with a AR15? I mean as long as the bolt will insert and lock up isnt checking it any further kind of moot? ETA: Last time i asked that question here i got mocked saying there was no reason. So its a serious question I am asking. Headspacing in any gun is important. Generally in ARs it is not an issue because parts are in spec. This is diffrent than saying it's not important. I have never checked Headspacing on a factory gun. Only guns I have put together or changed something on. Headspace is the distance from the bolt face to where the shoulder of the case rests in the chamber. It is the area in which the brass can expand. So it is possible to have an extention that a bolt locks into just fine but there is still excessive headspace. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 10:19:32 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: we have a winner Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I pulled all the bullets and they all looked alike in shape. I did not weigh them. The powder in each case (except the first one) was weighed. Without a microscope inspection, the powder all looked the same. See photo below. The low was 23.9 gr. and the high was 25.3 gr. Here are the weights by headstamp: LC02 - 23.9, 24.7 LC03 - 24.9 and one I did not weigh LC04 - 24.7 LC05 - 25.2, 25.3, 24.7, 24.7, 25.3, 24.7 LC06 - 24.8, 25.3, 24.8, 25.1, 24.8, 24.8, 25.0, 24.8 LC07 - 25.0, 53.3 LC12 - 24.8 FC 223 - 24.8 http://i59.tinypic.com/2a5zlgx.jpg we have a winner Whoops, I made an error, it should have been 25.3. Sorry about that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 10:21:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whoops, I made an error, it should have been 25.3. Sorry about that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I pulled all the bullets and they all looked alike in shape. I did not weigh them. The powder in each case (except the first one) was weighed. Without a microscope inspection, the powder all looked the same. See photo below. The low was 23.9 gr. and the high was 25.3 gr. Here are the weights by headstamp: LC02 - 23.9, 24.7 LC03 - 24.9 and one I did not weigh LC04 - 24.7 LC05 - 25.2, 25.3, 24.7, 24.7, 25.3, 24.7 LC06 - 24.8, 25.3, 24.8, 25.1, 24.8, 24.8, 25.0, 24.8 LC07 - 25.0, 53.3 LC12 - 24.8 FC 223 - 24.8 http://i59.tinypic.com/2a5zlgx.jpg we have a winner Whoops, I made an error, it should have been 25.3. Sorry about that. ah. i only reload pistol but that seems to be quite a big spread of weights, especially for factory ammo |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 10:24:58 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The simple fact is that no one knows what caused this...and never will Guess away all you like, they'll always only be guesses, it happens. Put a new upper on it and get on with life |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:48:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is LCAAP? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But yeah, if LC headstamped ammo made a gun explode, my money is not on it being LCAAP made. What is LCAAP? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:56:04 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: we have a winner Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I pulled all the bullets and they all looked alike in shape. I did not weigh them. The powder in each case (except the first one) was weighed. Without a microscope inspection, the powder all looked the same. See photo below. The low was 23.9 gr. and the high was 25.3 gr. Here are the weights by headstamp: LC02 - 23.9, 24.7 LC03 - 24.9 and one I did not weigh LC04 - 24.7 LC05 - 25.2, 25.3, 24.7, 24.7, 25.3, 24.7 LC06 - 24.8, 25.3, 24.8, 25.1, 24.8, 24.8, 25.0, 24.8 LC07 - 25.0, 53.3 LC12 - 24.8 FC 223 - 24.8 http://i59.tinypic.com/2a5zlgx.jpg we have a winner |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:57:17 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whoops, I made an error, it should have been 25.3. Sorry about that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I pulled all the bullets and they all looked alike in shape. I did not weigh them. The powder in each case (except the first one) was weighed. Without a microscope inspection, the powder all looked the same. See photo below. The low was 23.9 gr. and the high was 25.3 gr. Here are the weights by headstamp: LC02 - 23.9, 24.7 LC03 - 24.9 and one I did not weigh LC04 - 24.7 LC05 - 25.2, 25.3, 24.7, 24.7, 25.3, 24.7 LC06 - 24.8, 25.3, 24.8, 25.1, 24.8, 24.8, 25.0, 24.8 LC07 - 25.0, 53.3 LC12 - 24.8 FC 223 - 24.8 http://i59.tinypic.com/2a5zlgx.jpg we have a winner Whoops, I made an error, it should have been 25.3. Sorry about that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 12:47:08 AM EDT
[#37]
I'm going with reloaded ammo and an overcharge... but you may never know. Especially if reloads... a powder measure loaded with pistol powder and mostly cleaned out probably would leave no trace other than the one round.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 12:56:41 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Show me a 5.56 case that will hold 53 gr. of any kind of powder. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I pulled all the bullets and they all looked alike in shape. I did not weigh them. The powder in each case (except the first one) was weighed. Without a microscope inspection, the powder all looked the same. See photo below. The low was 23.9 gr. and the high was 25.3 gr. Here are the weights by headstamp: LC02 - 23.9, 24.7 LC03 - 24.9 and one I did not weigh LC04 - 24.7 LC05 - 25.2, 25.3, 24.7, 24.7, 25.3, 24.7 LC06 - 24.8, 25.3, 24.8, 25.1, 24.8, 24.8, 25.0, 24.8 LC07 - 25.0, 53.3 LC12 - 24.8 FC 223 - 24.8 http://i59.tinypic.com/2a5zlgx.jpg we have a winner wat I was thinking. The case is about 95% full already. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 3:00:33 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I pulled all the bullets and they all looked alike in shape. I did not weigh them. The powder in each case (except the first one) was weighed. Without a microscope inspection, the powder all looked the same. See photo below. The low was 23.9 gr. and the high was 25.3 gr. Here are the weights by headstamp: LC02 - 23.9, 24.7 LC03 - 24.9 and one I did not weigh LC04 - 24.7 LC05 - 25.2, 25.3, 24.7, 24.7, 25.3, 24.7 LC06 - 24.8, 25.3, 24.8, 25.1, 24.8, 24.8, 25.0, 24.8 LC07 - 25.0, 25.3 ETA. for correction
LC12 - 24.8 FC 223 - 24.8 http://i59.tinypic.com/2a5zlgx.jpg The darker, black colored powder stands out as possibly something abnormal. Below is a pic of LC M855 powder (2013). 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 3:38:18 AM EDT
[#40]
Wouldn't call the powder yet. Auto white balance on digicams can really mess with some colors
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 9:38:55 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I pulled all the bullets and they all looked alike in shape. I did not weigh them. The powder in each case (except the first one) was weighed. Without a microscope inspection, the powder all looked the same. See photo below. The low was 23.9 gr. and the high was 25.3 gr. Here are the weights by headstamp: LC02 - 23.9, 24.7 LC03 - 24.9 and one I did not weigh LC04 - 24.7 LC05 - 25.2, 25.3, 24.7, 24.7, 25.3, 24.7 LC06 - 24.8, 25.3, 24.8, 25.1, 24.8, 24.8, 25.0, 24.8 LC07 - 25.0, 25.3 ETA. for correction LC12 - 24.8 FC 223 - 24.8 http://i59.tinypic.com/2a5zlgx.jpg Looks like TAC powder. and in that range for that podwer
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 9:44:03 AM EDT
[#42]
Nasty QC by Federal Cartridge with regards to propellant range. Not a lick of that ammo was assembled at LCAAP.
It is safe to say these are NOT reloads. Because even a blind Parkinson's patient could have done a better job measuring powder
 |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 10:09:07 AM EDT
[#43]
Has someone pulled XM193 factory to measure the charge weight and compare it to what OP came up with? Those weights seem lower than what I had pulled a while ago from factory xm193, but I do not remember what is was or have any xm193 to pull on hand.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 12:05:53 PM EDT
[#44]
wow thats crazy! glad nobody was hurt
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 12:36:43 PM EDT
[#45]
My vote is on a faulty case. They don't look like reloads and even if they were, you can literally fill a case to the neck and compress the load with most rifle powders and not blow a rifle up. Pistol powder in a rifle case is a different story, but again, they don't look like reloads. Sometimes shit happens. Glad nobody was injured and sounds like PSA and the ammo MFG need to work out what happened and determine who's replacing the firearm.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 1:01:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nasty QC by Federal Cartridge with regards to propellant range. Not a lick of that ammo was assembled at LCAAP. It is safe to say these are NOT reloads. Because even a blind Parkinson's patient could have done a better job measuring powder
Another thing to consider is that the charges shown are likely ased on producing a specified velocity/pressure usingf a particular batch of powder. The dates on the brass suggests years of manufacturing and numerous lots of powder. Not all batches of powder are created equal. That is why it is suggested in reloading manuals (but I doubt the advice is followed) that when going to a new batch of powder that you drop loads back by 10% and recheck them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 2:48:25 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another thing to consider is that the charges shown are likely ased on producing a specified velocity/pressure usingf a particular batch of powder. The dates on the brass suggests years of manufacturing and numerous lots of powder. Not all batches of powder are created equal. That is why it is suggested in reloading manuals (but I doubt the advice is followed) that when going to a new batch of powder that you drop loads back by 10% and recheck them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nasty QC by Federal Cartridge with regards to propellant range. Not a lick of that ammo was assembled at LCAAP. It is safe to say these are NOT reloads. Because even a blind Parkinson's patient could have done a better job measuring powder
Another thing to consider is that the charges shown are likely ased on producing a specified velocity/pressure usingf a particular batch of powder. The dates on the brass suggests years of manufacturing and numerous lots of powder. Not all batches of powder are created equal. That is why it is suggested in reloading manuals (but I doubt the advice is followed) that when going to a new batch of powder that you drop loads back by 10% and recheck them. Since the headstamps are all different, this guy probably just throws a bunch of different ammo lots into a single bucket or ammo can... for which we would expect the vast differences in powder weights. However, even from the same lot, XM193 can vary quite a bit, I was surprised when I tested this. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 3:57:23 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I pulled all the bullets and they all looked alike in shape. I did not weigh them. The powder in each case (except the first one) was weighed. Without a microscope inspection, the powder all looked the same. See photo below. The low was 23.9 gr. and the high was 25.3 gr. Here are the weights by headstamp: LC02 - 23.9, 24.7 LC03 - 24.9 and one I did not weigh LC04 - 24.7 LC05 - 25.2, 25.3, 24.7, 24.7, 25.3, 24.7 LC06 - 24.8, 25.3, 24.8, 25.1, 24.8, 24.8, 25.0, 24.8 LC07 - 25.0, 25.3 ETA. for correction
LC12 - 24.8 FC 223 - 24.8 http://i59.tinypic.com/2a5zlgx.jpg Mixed headstamps and bullet construction indicate reloads to me. The cannelure is too high on the bullet and the jacket seems way too thick to be an LC projectile. Not saying that any of this should be a problem, just that they dont look like factory lc to me. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 4:08:08 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like TAC powder. and in that range for that podwer Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I pulled all the bullets and they all looked alike in shape. I did not weigh them. The powder in each case (except the first one) was weighed. Without a microscope inspection, the powder all looked the same. See photo below. The low was 23.9 gr. and the high was 25.3 gr. Here are the weights by headstamp: LC02 - 23.9, 24.7 LC03 - 24.9 and one I did not weigh LC04 - 24.7 LC05 - 25.2, 25.3, 24.7, 24.7, 25.3, 24.7 LC06 - 24.8, 25.3, 24.8, 25.1, 24.8, 24.8, 25.0, 24.8 LC07 - 25.0, 25.3 ETA. for correction LC12 - 24.8 FC 223 - 24.8 http://i59.tinypic.com/2a5zlgx.jpg Looks like TAC powder. and in that range for that podwer edit I misunderstood what he said, it looks like mixed powder to me in that picture. the darker stuff looks round like tac. iraqvet8888 did a video showing what mixed powder can do to a mosin......it blew it up |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 4:21:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm no expert but does this not look like 4 different primers in these? I'm thinking reloads for sure. http://i58.tinypic.com/10xzhcp.jpg Those all look like they have the primer crimp intact, so probably not reloads. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
