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Posted: 10/18/2014 12:05:35 AM EDT
My friend's 12 year old son was shooting his AR15 (That I helped him build last year) when it blew up.  He is OK.  The magazine was blown out of the mag well and the bottom of the magazine was blown out.  The bolt is still lodged in the upper.  He has put about 250 rounds through the rifle.  The 30 round mag was loaded with 10 rounds of LC 03 head stamped ammo.  This happened on the 5th round.
Here are some photos he emailed me.
What could have caused this to happen?






ETA NEW PHOTOS:

After I took these photos, I tried to remove the BCG but it appears the bolt is stuck in there pretty good.  The BC can move a little bit but it is not coming out.  I have photographed the remaining ammo as well as the recover spent cases and will post them shortly.  







































































 
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:06:11 AM EDT
[#1]
Squib or overcharged ammo.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:07:25 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
My friend's 12 year old son was shooting his AR15 (That I helped him build last year) when it blew up.  He is OK.  The magazine was blown out of the mag well and the bottom of the magazine was blown out.  The bolt is still lodged in the upper.  He has put about 250 rounds through the rifle.  The 30 round mag was loaded with 10 rounds of LC 03 head stamped ammo.  This happened on the 5th round.
View Quote


Are you positive it wasn't reloads?
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:07:39 AM EDT
[#3]
I would ask him where he got the ammo.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:08:06 AM EDT
[#4]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Squib or overcharged ammo.
View Quote


Would the barrel be bulged or split if it was a squib?



 
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:08:49 AM EDT
[#5]
I have no idea.



edit for reading comprehension



 
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:09:04 AM EDT
[#6]
Holy Shit. I can't deduce anything other than an overcharge. I wouldn't say squib because I don't think that could blow the bottom of the carrier out.

And yeah the barrel would be busted...
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:09:13 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Squib or overcharged ammo.
View Quote

Yup. Looks like it's a little OOB, though. Is the barrel obstructed?

«tc2k11»
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:09:42 AM EDT
[#8]
Pics of the rest of the ammo would be appropriate.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:10:07 AM EDT
[#9]
Was the lower OK aside from the bolt release?

And yea, check the ammo. If it was supposed to be XM, it'll be dirty from the factory with primer crimp.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:10:19 AM EDT
[#10]

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Quoted:
Are you positive it wasn't reloads?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

My friend's 12 year old son was shooting his AR15 (That I helped him build last year) when it blew up.  He is OK.  The magazine was blown out of the mag well and the bottom of the magazine was blown out.  The bolt is still lodged in the upper.  He has put about 250 rounds through the rifle.  The 30 round mag was loaded with 10 rounds of LC 03 head stamped ammo.  This happened on the 5th round.





Are you positive it wasn't reloads?


No, I am not.  I asked him and he said another friend of the family gave them some "bulk" ammo.  I questioned him if he knew if they were reloads, and he didn't know.  All he said was that it was bulk ammo.  I suspected, and told him, that I thought it might have been reloads, but it will take some further investigation to be sure.



 
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:10:33 AM EDT
[#11]
Did anyone check the headspace when it was built?
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:11:08 AM EDT
[#12]

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Quoted:





Would the barrel be bulged or split if it was a squib?

 
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Quoted:



Quoted:

Squib or overcharged ammo.


Would the barrel be bulged or split if it was a squib?

 




 



Yeah I would bet the barrel would have a bulge.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:11:44 AM EDT
[#13]

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Quoted:


Pics of the rest of the ammo would be appropriate.
View Quote


All I have right now are these photos.  He is bringing me the rifle on Sunday so I can try and get the BCG out and retrieve the spent case.



 
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:12:06 AM EDT
[#14]
It held up quite well.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:12:18 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Did anyone check the headspace when it was built?
View Quote

Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:13:32 AM EDT
[#16]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
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Quoted:





Quoted:


Did anyone check the headspace when it was built?






Not that I'm aware of.





 
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:14:28 AM EDT
[#17]
If the one before it was a squib and lodged a bullet in the barrel.  However, that would required manual ejection.

Is the case or pieces of it available for photos?  That would help in diagnosing what went wrong more than the damage to the rifle itself.

Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:14:56 AM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
Did anyone check the headspace when it was built?
View Quote


I was going to ask this.  I know many guys do not check headspace but I always do. I had two barrel/bolt combos that were way out of spec and caught it with go/no go gauges. It does happen.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:15:07 AM EDT
[#19]
Gun show reloads, that someone pawned off as factory? Overpressure, pin strike out of full battery? You did a shitty job of building it and messed up the head space? Crap in the barrel from the previous shot that caused pressure issues?

We really need more info than pics
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:15:26 AM EDT
[#20]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


If the one before it was a squib and lodged a bullet in the barrel.  However, that would required manual ejection.



Is the case or pieces of it available for photos?  That would help in diagnosing what went wrong more than the damage to the rifle itself.



View Quote


I will be getting the rifle on Sunday.



 
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:16:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
http://youtu.be/A5bs6epOYLw
 

Yeah I would bet the barrel would have a bulge.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Squib or overcharged ammo.

Would the barrel be bulged or split if it was a squib?
 
http://youtu.be/A5bs6epOYLw
 

Yeah I would bet the barrel would have a bulge.

You'd think that someone could have fixed the tracking before posting online

Crazy video though.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:16:42 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
http://youtu.be/A5bs6epOYLw
 

Yeah I would bet the barrel would have a bulge.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Squib or overcharged ammo.

Would the barrel be bulged or split if it was a squib?
 
http://youtu.be/A5bs6epOYLw
 

Yeah I would bet the barrel would have a bulge.

Failed to check the barrel for obstruction.  I knew exactly when that gun was gonna go blooie.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:16:58 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

No, I am not.  I asked him and he said another friend of the family gave them some "bulk" ammo.  I questioned him if he knew if they were reloads, and he didn't know.  All he said was that it was bulk ammo.  I suspected, and told him, that I thought it might have been reloads, but it will take some further investigation to be sure.
 
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My friend's 12 year old son was shooting his AR15 (That I helped him build last year) when it blew up.  He is OK.  The magazine was blown out of the mag well and the bottom of the magazine was blown out.  The bolt is still lodged in the upper.  He has put about 250 rounds through the rifle.  The 30 round mag was loaded with 10 rounds of LC 03 head stamped ammo.  This happened on the 5th round.


Are you positive it wasn't reloads?

No, I am not.  I asked him and he said another friend of the family gave them some "bulk" ammo.  I questioned him if he knew if they were reloads, and he didn't know.  All he said was that it was bulk ammo.  I suspected, and told him, that I thought it might have been reloads, but it will take some further investigation to be sure.
 


Reloads, or somehow fired out of battery.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:17:45 AM EDT
[#24]
My guess is the ammo.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:18:13 AM EDT
[#25]
my guess is a hair OOB, back of case plumed and that was the result.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:18:59 AM EDT
[#26]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Gun show reloads, that someone pawned off as factory? Overpressure, pin strike out of full battery? You did a shitty job of building it and messed up the head space? Crap in the barrel from the previous shot that caused pressure issues?



We really need more info than pics
View Quote


The ammo is the mystery here as it was obtained from a family friend, not me.  I don't shoot anyone's reloads and I don't let anyone shoot mine.  I should say that I helped him assemble it as the upper was fully assembled.  As previously stated, he had about 250 rounds already through it with no problems.  



All of the info I posted I just got via email and text a few hours ago.  I'll know more on Sunday.



 
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:20:10 AM EDT
[#27]

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Quoted:


my guess is a hair OOB, back of case plumed and that was the result.
View Quote


How common is this compared to bad ammo?



 
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:20:58 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Squib or overcharged ammo.
View Quote


Did you happen to have a Glock anywhere in the area?
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:21:15 AM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:
It held up quite well.
View Quote


Yup

Cant say I have seen many that did not blow away aluminum
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:23:36 AM EDT
[#30]
Anyone know if a squib can cycle the gun if it passed the gas port?
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:24:46 AM EDT
[#31]
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Quoted:


Did you happen to have a Glock anywhere in the area?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Squib or overcharged ammo.


Did you happen to have a Glock anywhere in the area?





OP, going off what you've posted I'd suspect a bulk pack of remanufactured ammo. That stuff has blown up a few rifles.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:27:16 AM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:

View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Did anyone check the headspace when it was built?




AR15's by design do not need to be headspaced.

I could see headspacing If the guy took a no name barrel and no name barrel extension and wrenched them together and then put them into a upper. Would he need to GO gauge it? Probably, but the vast majority of uppers are pre-barreled and the vast vast majority of barrels have the barrel extension factory installed.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:28:54 AM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:29:26 AM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:30:41 AM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Did anyone check the headspace when it was built?
View Quote

That's what I was thinking. Something wasn't tight or it was an ammo issue.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:30:43 AM EDT
[#36]
This is what happens when you purchase from PSA. Their manufacturing is obviously by a bunch of incompetents, it also explains the very cheap pricing...



ETA: You get what you pay for.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:31:55 AM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:32:33 AM EDT
[#38]
You'll have to report back as to what parts if any are salvageable. I saw that happen to an AR due to a bad reload, and everything was toast. Even the
pistol grip had a crack in it.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:34:52 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

No, I am not.  I asked him and he said another friend of the family gave them some "bulk" ammo.  I questioned him if he knew if they were reloads, and he didn't know.  All he said was that it was bulk ammo.  I suspected, and told him, that I thought it might have been reloads, but it will take some further investigation to be sure.
 
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My friend's 12 year old son was shooting his AR15 (That I helped him build last year) when it blew up.  He is OK.  The magazine was blown out of the mag well and the bottom of the magazine was blown out.  The bolt is still lodged in the upper.  He has put about 250 rounds through the rifle.  The 30 round mag was loaded with 10 rounds of LC 03 head stamped ammo.  This happened on the 5th round.


Are you positive it wasn't reloads?

No, I am not.  I asked him and he said another friend of the family gave them some "bulk" ammo.  I questioned him if he knew if they were reloads, and he didn't know.  All he said was that it was bulk ammo.  I suspected, and told him, that I thought it might have been reloads, but it will take some further investigation to be sure.
 


Thank you.  At this point, reloads seem high on the list.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:35:52 AM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:
Anyone know if a squib can cycle the gun if it passed the gas port?
View Quote



If that were to happen, the barrel would be bulged and most of the damage would be at that point.  The blow-up would be in the barrel where the bullet stopped.

If the cartride is still in the chamber, as it seems to be from the information presented so-far,  then a squib that required a hand ejection of the bad round,  a vastly over pressured reload, or bullet set-back upon feeding  are the most likely canditates.  

There are other possibilities that will show upon inspection of the problem case.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:38:00 AM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:38:04 AM EDT
[#42]
be sure to pull a couple rounds of the ammo and see how much powder is in them
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:40:01 AM EDT
[#43]
Probably bad ammo, maybe bad headspace.

Out of Battery:  Not likely, bolt is still locked closed (edit: well... maybe not..).  To be honest, of all the AR Kabooms I've seen posted, I can't think of one that was actually due to OOB.

Bad headspace: maybe, but it's been fired 250 times so far,  Won't rule it out, but I just don't think that's it.  Bad head spacing is pretty rare in AR's.  Would want to see the brass before saying more.

Squib:  Only if the gun failed to cycle, and the kid cycled it manually.  Possible, but one would think that would have been an unusual enough event associated with this that it would have been stated.  Worth asking them about  it, but really doubt this is it.

Other barrel obstruction: Unlikely, since 4 rounds were fired without issue.  I know of a KBoom in a 1917 Enfield caused by firing after a shed jacket stuck in the barrel, while the rest of that bullet continued.  But that example involved a heavily corroded barrel coupled with an unusually light bullet which also had a very thin jacket.  That's almost certainly not the case here, and never heard of such a thing with an AR.

Over pressure round:  This one is my most likely candidate.  LC03 isn't a very common head-stamp for loaded ammo in the civilian marketplace.  Coupled with the seemingly mysterious progeny of the ammo (hopefully to be clarified), this sounds like your classic gunshow reloads - using "once fired brass",   Where "once fired" means "some range sold me a bucket of crap they found on the ground, who knows" or "military from a worn machine gun barrel".  Generally it's hard to overpressure a round bad enough to cause a Kaboom, but maybe this commercial reloader did a combination of bad powder charge and bad brass.  That's what I think happened.  Seeing detailed photos of the remaining ammo will be very telling.  Visible by looking at the remaining loaded ammo: the mild twin nicks in the neck, rim nicks, primer color, primer pocket crimp or obvious crimp removal cones are all tell-tell signs.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:40:13 AM EDT
[#44]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


This is what happens when you purchase from PSA. Their manufacturing is obviously by a bunch of incompetents, it also explains the very cheap pricing...
ETA: You get what you pay for.
View Quote


So, nothing PSA sells is any good?  



 
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:41:01 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This is what happens when you purchase from PSA. Their manufacturing is obviously by a bunch of incompetents, it also explains the very cheap pricing...



ETA: You get what you pay for.
View Quote


GTFO 13'er
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:41:19 AM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yup

Cant say I have seen many that did not blow away aluminum
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Quoted:
Quoted:
It held up quite well.


Yup

Cant say I have seen many that did not blow away aluminum


Handled extreme pressure as well as I have seen. No flying bits and all parts accounted for.
Sorry you lost a rifle but for taking punishment I give two thumbs up.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:42:22 AM EDT
[#47]
I'm thinking reloads caused this. Have him send you some of the 'bulk ammo' he was shooting...
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:42:34 AM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



AR15's by design do not need to be headspaced.

I could see headspacing If the guy took a no name barrel and no name barrel extension and wrenched them together and then put them into a upper. Would he need to GO gauge it? Probably, but the vast majority of uppers are pre-barreled and the vast vast majority of barrels have the barrel extension factory installed.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Did anyone check the headspace when it was built?




AR15's by design do not need to be headspaced.

I could see headspacing If the guy took a no name barrel and no name barrel extension and wrenched them together and then put them into a upper. Would he need to GO gauge it? Probably, but the vast majority of uppers are pre-barreled and the vast vast majority of barrels have the barrel extension factory installed.


Que what?
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:44:11 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Probably bad ammo, maybe bad headspace.

Out of Battery:  Not likely, bolt is still locked closed.  To be honest, of all the AR Kabooms I've seen posted, I can't think of one that was actually due to OOB.
Bad headspace: maybe, but it's been fired 250 times so far,  Won't rule it out.
Squib:  Only if the gun failed to cycle, and the kid cycled it manually.  Possible, but one would think that would have been an unusual enough event associated with this that it would have been stated.  Worth asking them about  it, but really doubt this is it.
Other barrel obstruction: Unlikely, since 4 rounds were fired without issue.  I know of a KBoom in a 1917 Enfield caused by a shed jacket stuck in the barrel, while the rest of the bullet continued.  But that example involved a heavily corroded barrel coupled with an unusually light bullet which also had a very thin jacket.  That's almost certainly not the case here, and never heard of such a thing with an AR.
Over pressure round:  This one is my most likely candidate.  LC03 isn't a very common head-stamp for loaded ammo in the civilian marketplace.  Coupled with the seemingly mysterious progeny of the ammo (hopefully to be clarified), this sounds like your classic gunshow reloads - using "once fired brass",   Where "once fired" means "some range sold me a bucket of crap they found on the ground, who knows" or "military from a worn machine gun barrel".  Generally it's hard to overpressure a round bad enough to cause a Kaboom, but maybe this commercial reloader did a combination of bad powder charge and bad brass.  That's what I think happened.  Seeing detailed photos of the remaining ammo will be very telling.  Visible my looking at the remaining loaded ammo: the mild twin nicks in the neck, rim nicks, primer color, primer pocket crimp or obvious crimp removal cones are all tell-tell signs.
View Quote


It's unlocked. You can see the extractor is in line with the ejection port.
Link Posted: 10/18/2014 12:44:26 AM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
http://youtu.be/A5bs6epOYLw
 

Yeah I would bet the barrel would have a bulge.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Squib or overcharged ammo.

Would the barrel be bulged or split if it was a squib?
 
http://youtu.be/A5bs6epOYLw
 

Yeah I would bet the barrel would have a bulge.


The froward assist is a great way to take a fixable malfunction to a catastrophic blow out.

It is also possible to leave a bullet in the chamber/leade if the round was improperly crimped of the bullet seated too far out. The round may not allow the bolt to go into battery and the bullet stays in as an obstruction. the next round will not allow the bolt to go into battery without the mechanical advantage of the forward assist then BOOM.
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