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[#1]
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[#2]
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all it means is that the church will now get money from gays. thats what its all about right, anyone can buy a seat on the train but they may not like the direction it goes. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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OP, good for them? You mean good they're throwing out whatever they like to twist their religion into what the world thinks it should be? Good for them? I think you mean shame on them for having no backbone and selling out their religion. Nope, I meant exactly what I said. The world doesn't need any more homophobes, especially in the pulpit. all it means is that the church will now get money from gays. thats what its all about right, anyone can buy a seat on the train but they may not like the direction it goes. Honestly? That's why the German bishops have been pushing the real liberal heresy stuff. Look up the church tax there. Explains why that one bishop could afford such fancy stuff. It's nice when your money comes from the government and you basically have 0 people coming to church. They want more "tolerance" to make sure the money keeps coming in. They don't care about their flock because, really, they don't have one. |
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[#3]
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[#4]
Quoted: Then just get yourself a big bag of stones and start chucking. What size rock for Homos? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Spoken like a true relativist. "There is no sin. No right or wrong. Who am I to judge?" Then just get yourself a big bag of stones and start chucking. What size rock for Homos? So because I am not a moral relativist, I want to murder others? Gee, your logic is astounding! Ad hominem much? |
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[#6]
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[#7]
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Accepting them like sinners is like all the rest of us our is the Christian way, but letting people sin in the church house, accommodating that sin, and legitimizing before the masses is not Christian. Nobody is flashing their heroine needles during Sunday morning worship, so why flash around that you are homosexual to the church. People fight sinful urges all the time that are just as strong as sexual desire. Fighting off the urge for a cigarette or other addiction is not much different. View Quote This |
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[#8]
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Then just get yourself a big bag of stones and start chucking. What size rock for Homos? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Spoken like a true relativist. "There is no sin. No right or wrong. Who am I to judge?" Then just get yourself a big bag of stones and start chucking. What size rock for Homos? What are you, 13? Disagreeing with someone over lifestyle isn't indicative of fear. I don't drink and in general disapprove of alcohol for consumption but that doesn't mean I'm methyphobic. Even my gay friends who know I don't approve of their lifestyle know I don't want to stone them. They don't care for my religious lifestyle and I can tell they don't want to murder me. I don't talk Jesus and they don't talk sodomy. It's an excellent arrangement. Somehow, we still manage to be friends because we are mature adults who can agree to disagree. |
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[#9]
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[#10]
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Spoken like a true relativist. "There is no sin. No right or wrong. Who am I to judge?" View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Hey, lets change our religion to fit what man deems right not God What difference does it make at this point anyways....... Strange, I am rather familiar with the bible and it does not mention shunning homosexuals, my take away is that we are to love them. Maybe I am misreading it? Love them by supporting/accepting their sinful lifestyle, or love them by telling them the truth about their sinful lifestyle? I don't have any truth about their lifestyle and I most certainly do not know what is in god's mind about their lifestyle, I think, I will leave it up to god to judge them. That simply is not my place. Spoken like a true relativist. "There is no sin. No right or wrong. Who am I to judge?" Sorry, I can only go by Matthew 7:1-3 for this, you might have a more direct line to your deity, I don't. I have to rely on god doing the judging. |
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[#11]
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There's a lot of interesting shit going on in the Catholic church these days, I'm not sure I like all of it, but I think it's all coming from the right place (a focus on God's love). View Quote I wonder what the impetus was? Did they see something? Did somebody say something? Why all of the pandering change all of the sudden? |
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[#12]
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So far nothing really new. Catholic Church has had gay priests for centuries. The issue is not having same sex attraction and has never been. The issue is sex outside of marriage - and I don't think that that is being revisited for one second. -- As for the teachings of contraception - That was discussed heavily once before, and the majority of the Biships came out in favor of accepting the pill and pressured the Holy See - and were told their theology was wrong. -- There already is some wiggle room on the remarriage w/o annulment. It is pretty limited. I am interested to see what comes of this. The current wiggle room exists via 3 loopholes: The Pauline Privilege, the Peterine Privilege, and living as brother and sister. The first 2 are about as rare as hen's teeth. But the 3rd could be opened up - and possibly should be opened up. It could leave a crack big enough to accept sexless homosexual unions (which supposedly have also been occasionally acceptable in the past). The Pauline Privilege allows for the dissolution of a marriage between 2 unbaptized so that one can enter the Church (unequally yoked). The Petrine Privilege allows for the dissolution of a marriage between a person and an unbaptized so they can enter into a marriage with a baptized (where one is a practicing Catholic). There are other issues with both - and they are almost never invoked - annulment is the preferred and attempted first in pretty much all cases. The concept between both is that marriage to an unbaptized is less important than eternity. View Quote Wait, there's someone here who actually has more than a rudimentary understanding of how the Catholic church works? What website am I on? No way I'm still on Arfcom. |
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[#13]
Just a bit of an update on this thread - as it appears media outlets around the world has decided to put their spin on the midterm report of the Extraordinary Synod of Bishops on the Family. Here is the basic spin I am getting from a fairly faithful Catholic outlet.
1) The midterm report is 6000 words (about 12 pages). It is downloadable. For those interested, read it. 2) It presents intersessions presented at the Synod - not conclusions on those intersessions. There was a bit of surprise and alarm at how media outlets presented them. In US terms - consider the intersessions as proposals for Bills. 3) After the midterm report, the Bishops will go into small session discussion groups, then return to general discussion. At that point they will essentially create a proposal for continued study - which will take place over the next 12 months. Those studies will be presented at the 2015 regular Synod. I think at that time they will become formal proposals (like a US bill being presented and being voted on by the House) and be forwarded to the Holy See. Anyway - the midterm report is a at most a working document of issues. General Feel - The direction of Pope Francis. Love First, teach second. This is fairly consistent with how Jesus addressed sinners. The term incrementalism (within the Catholic Church) refers to meeting a person where they are, and leading them from there. Rather than saying they are not welcome in the Church unless they are perfect Saints, you love first, then try to help them with their path - a lifetime path, not an instantaneous change. There seemed to be some common concern about streamlining the process of annulment. This was not presented by the US Bishops. In the US (and I assume elsewhere), an annulment is a cannon law trial. It has a defendant (petitioner), a prosecutor (a cannon lawyer who defends the marriage), and a panel of judges (the tribunal-also cannon lawyers I think). After the trial, if the tribunal rules in favor of the defendant, the prosecutor appeals - and it goes to the next higher level court and is review. The US has massive amounts of resources to deal with this. It is overwhelming in other parts of the world with less resources. ---- I personally have seen incrementalism abused. I understand the need to meet someone where they are, and to present the message in a way they can hear it and start down a better path. The problem I have seen is when they are told a message that says they are fine were they are and they don't need to change the path they are already on. All of us are sinners, all of us need to repent, and keep on repenting. That is the process of knowing Jesus and accepting him into our lives. |
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[#14]
Normalizing sin IS sin.
God is clear about turning from sin and sinning no more. You can't live in sin and wallow in it and have the Holy Spirit dwell in your heart. |
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[#15]
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Just a bit of an update on this thread - as it appears media outlets around the world has decided to put their spin on the midterm report of the Extraordinary Synod of Bishops on the Family. Here is the basic spin I am getting from a fairly faithful Catholic outlet. . View Quote Cardinal Wilfrid Fox Napier said that due to the press reports the Synod may now be "“irredeemable”. His exact words: “We’re now working from a position that’s virtually irredeemable. The message has gone out that this is what synod is saying, that this is what the Catholic Church is saying. Whatever we say hereafter will seem like we’re doing damage control.” The press spin, though, can't account for all the problems found in the document. Cardinal Burke said the document “in fact, advances positions which many Synod Fathers do not accept and, I would say, as faithful shepherds of the flock cannot accept" and it "lacks a solid foundation in the Sacred Scriptures and the Magisterium.” Archbishop Stanislaw Gadecki, head of the Polish Bishop's council basically said the document was crap: "It focuses on exceptions, but what is needed is the proclamation of truth." and said the whole thing was "unacceptable". And, then, of course, we get to Cardinal Gerhard Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, possibly one of the few decent German Catholic leaders left. He called the document: "Undignified, shameful, completely wrong." Oh, and a lot of Bishops and such are saying that the document doesn't accurately reflect what was actually discussed. Basically, what I'm reading from some outlets, blogs, and priests is near open revolt against this document. When a Cardinal says that he and others "cannot accept" something that might become official teaching, well, that's the kind of language that warms the heart of the gentlemen and ladies over at the SSPX. And we just started getting a lot of orders affiliated with that to come back. ETA: The Church's normal strong hold on such issues is also why a ton of Anglicans just rejoined the RCC as well. They already left one church over such issues, don't see why they wouldn't do it again. Article: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-counterfeit-synod-theres-problem.html#more |
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[#16]
It would have been better if some of the intercessions presented would have been omitted from the report. It did them know favors to present intercessions that were obviously against docterine.
I agree that wallowing in sin and believing your are perfect is a problem. But I do recognize that repentance is a lifelong process. We tend to forget what sin is. Sin was an archery term. We have an X on a target-. That is the mark we aim for. Sin is missing that mark. We can miss the mark from action or inaction. Often we can not see most of our misses, because they are hidden by other's. The concept of incrimentalism is that we recognize that, and work at the first, so that the next can be seen, and so no. The problem is not starting it and not continuing it. An example given by a priest this morning (or yesterday). A woman had left the Church due to a divorce. The priest asked her to spend some time with the Holy Eucharist. So she started going to Adoration 1hr a week. Shortly afterwards she started on her annulment. After a year she had her marriage regularized. A year latter she and her husband gave up artificial contraceptive. That is incrimental - starting small and letting it grow. |
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[#17]
Quoted: Sorry, I can only go by Matthew 7:1-3 for this, you might have a more direct line to your deity, I don't. I have to rely on god doing the judging. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't have any truth about their lifestyle and I most certainly do not know what is in god's mind about their lifestyle, I think, I will leave it up to god to judge them. That simply is not my place. Spoken like a true relativist. "There is no sin. No right or wrong. Who am I to judge?" Sorry, I can only go by Matthew 7:1-3 for this, you might have a more direct line to your deity, I don't. I have to rely on god doing the judging. Lol, nice try at cherry picking. If you actually read Matthew 7:1-5, you will see that Jesus is teaching us HOW to judge, rather than "never judge" as you try and claim. Remove the speck from our own eye first, then we can remove it from our brother's eye. He was condemning those that have a fault finding type of spirit. The pharisees were great at making hasty and rash judgements upon their neighbors to make themselves look good, while they were the one's with a stone cold spiritless heart. I guess you skipped John 7:24 and Hebrews 5:14, and other verses that teach us HOW to judge. |
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[#18]
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[#19]
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Lol, nice try at cherry picking. If you actually read Matthew 7:1-5, you will see that Jesus is teaching us HOW to judge, rather than "never judge" as you try and claim. Remove the speck from our own eye first, then we can remove it from our brother's eye. He was condemning those that have a fault finding type of spirit. The pharisees were great at making hasty and rash judgements upon their neighbors to make themselves look good, while they were the one's with a stone cold spiritless heart. I guess you skipped John 7:24 and Hebrews 5:14, and other verses that teach us HOW to judge. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I don't have any truth about their lifestyle and I most certainly do not know what is in god's mind about their lifestyle, I think, I will leave it up to god to judge them. That simply is not my place. Spoken like a true relativist. "There is no sin. No right or wrong. Who am I to judge?" Sorry, I can only go by Matthew 7:1-3 for this, you might have a more direct line to your deity, I don't. I have to rely on god doing the judging. Lol, nice try at cherry picking. If you actually read Matthew 7:1-5, you will see that Jesus is teaching us HOW to judge, rather than "never judge" as you try and claim. Remove the speck from our own eye first, then we can remove it from our brother's eye. He was condemning those that have a fault finding type of spirit. The pharisees were great at making hasty and rash judgements upon their neighbors to make themselves look good, while they were the one's with a stone cold spiritless heart. I guess you skipped John 7:24 and Hebrews 5:14, and other verses that teach us HOW to judge. No, I didn't skip anything, my faith goes into the fact that God will do the judging and that man will do it to please himself not god. I am pretty confident that many people who are judging others are wearing mixed fiber clothes, enjoying shrimp and lobster and do all manner of work on sunday. I am really comfortable leaving the judging to God. You may not be, if so, feel free to go forth and judge everyone else to your hearts content. No judgement from me over it. |
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[#20]
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[#21]
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this..all they care about is the money... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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They will do anything to keep people going in and donating to the plate. this..all they care about is the money... *sigh* One, most posts are now outdated as the final synod report has been issued and most of the liberal Kasperite bullshit has been stripped out and it turned out that "all the bishops are totally on board with the draft" turned out to be lies. Also, Kasper is a racist. But, sadly, your post is accurate when discussing the Catholic Chuch in Germany. Because they do only care about the cash and learned nothing from the episcopalians and other "mainline" prot churches. |
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[#22]
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No, I didn't skip anything, my faith goes into the fact that God will do the judging and that man will do it to please himself not god. I am pretty confident that many people who are judging others are wearing mixed fiber clothes, enjoying shrimp and lobster and do all manner of work on sunday. I am really comfortable leaving the judging to God. You may not be, if so, feel free to go forth and judge everyone else to your hearts content. No judgement from me over it. View Quote Christians are not restricted on what to wear or eat. those restrictions were given to the Israelites. |
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[#23]
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Christians are not restricted on what to wear or eat. those restrictions were given to the Israelites. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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No, I didn't skip anything, my faith goes into the fact that God will do the judging and that man will do it to please himself not god. I am pretty confident that many people who are judging others are wearing mixed fiber clothes, enjoying shrimp and lobster and do all manner of work on sunday. I am really comfortable leaving the judging to God. You may not be, if so, feel free to go forth and judge everyone else to your hearts content. No judgement from me over it. Christians are not restricted on what to wear or eat. those restrictions were given to the Israelites. Ah, I thought you were going by the holy book of Christians, my mistake! |
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[#24]
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Ah, I thought you were going by the holy book of Christians, my mistake! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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No, I didn't skip anything, my faith goes into the fact that God will do the judging and that man will do it to please himself not god. I am pretty confident that many people who are judging others are wearing mixed fiber clothes, enjoying shrimp and lobster and do all manner of work on sunday. I am really comfortable leaving the judging to God. You may not be, if so, feel free to go forth and judge everyone else to your hearts content. No judgement from me over it. Christians are not restricted on what to wear or eat. those restrictions were given to the Israelites. Ah, I thought you were going by the holy book of Christians, my mistake! So I'm guessing you never read Acts. It's in the Bible. |
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[#25]
Just thought I would update this one with a few quotes from the Pope from October 25. I don't think he is going to change the Church's definition any time soon.
"The family is being hit, the family is being struck and the family is being bastardized,” the Pope told those in attendance at the Oct. 25 audience. View Quote He warned against the common view in society that "you can call everything family, right?” "What is being proposed is not marriage, it’s an association. But it’s not marriage! It’s necessary to say these things very clearly and we have to say it!” Pope Francis stressed. He lamented that there are so many "new forms” of unions which are "totally destructive and limiting the greatness of the love of marriage.” The liberal media has not picked much of this up. |
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[#26]
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Just thought I would update this one with a few quotes from the Pope from October 25. I don't think he is going to change the Church's definition any time soon. He warned against the common view in society that "you can call everything family, right?” "What is being proposed is not marriage, it’s an association. But it’s not marriage! It’s necessary to say these things very clearly and we have to say it!” Pope Francis stressed. He lamented that there are so many "new forms” of unions which are "totally destructive and limiting the greatness of the love of marriage.” [div style='overflow: hidden; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-align: left; text-decoration: none; border: medium none;'] Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/theanchoress/2014/10/27/pope-francis-not-stupid-knows-what-marriage-is/#ixzz3HXuqyCis View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Just thought I would update this one with a few quotes from the Pope from October 25. I don't think he is going to change the Church's definition any time soon. "The family is being hit, the family is being struck and the family is being bastardized,” the Pope told those in attendance at the Oct. 25 audience.
He warned against the common view in society that "you can call everything family, right?” "What is being proposed is not marriage, it’s an association. But it’s not marriage! It’s necessary to say these things very clearly and we have to say it!” Pope Francis stressed. He lamented that there are so many "new forms” of unions which are "totally destructive and limiting the greatness of the love of marriage.” [div style='overflow: hidden; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-align: left; text-decoration: none; border: medium none;'] Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/theanchoress/2014/10/27/pope-francis-not-stupid-knows-what-marriage-is/#ixzz3HXuqyCis I'm supposed to be at the audience next week. Very interested to hear what else he may have to say about this. The liberal media has not picked much of this up. |
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[#27]
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Just thought I would update this one with a few quotes from the Pope from October 25. I don't think he is going to change the Church's definition any time soon. He warned against the common view in society that "you can call everything family, right?” "What is being proposed is not marriage, it’s an association. But it’s not marriage! It’s necessary to say these things very clearly and we have to say it!” Pope Francis stressed. He lamented that there are so many "new forms” of unions which are "totally destructive and limiting the greatness of the love of marriage.” [div style='overflow: hidden; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-align: left; text-decoration: none; border: medium none;'] Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/theanchoress/2014/10/27/pope-francis-not-stupid-knows-what-marriage-is/#ixzz3HXuqyCis The liberal media has not picked much of this up. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Just thought I would update this one with a few quotes from the Pope from October 25. I don't think he is going to change the Church's definition any time soon. "The family is being hit, the family is being struck and the family is being bastardized,” the Pope told those in attendance at the Oct. 25 audience.
He warned against the common view in society that "you can call everything family, right?” "What is being proposed is not marriage, it’s an association. But it’s not marriage! It’s necessary to say these things very clearly and we have to say it!” Pope Francis stressed. He lamented that there are so many "new forms” of unions which are "totally destructive and limiting the greatness of the love of marriage.” [div style='overflow: hidden; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-align: left; text-decoration: none; border: medium none;'] Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/theanchoress/2014/10/27/pope-francis-not-stupid-knows-what-marriage-is/#ixzz3HXuqyCis The liberal media has not picked much of this up. They won't, because dontcha know Pope Francis is the fluffiest nicest pope ever and the first one to ever talk about mercy or being pastoral and he wants all the things the liberal press wants. I'm also starting to think, based on stuff like this, that the entire Synod may have been a trap for people like Kasper. I have some friends and there's some blogs that have been saying that. |
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