This.

Honestly? That's why the German bishops have been pushing the real liberal heresy stuff.

Look up the church tax there.  Explains why that one bishop could afford such fancy stuff. It's nice when your money comes from the government and you basically have 0 people coming to church. They want more "tolerance" to make sure the money keeps coming in. They don't care about their flock because, really, they don't have one.

So because I am not a moral relativist, I want to murder others? Gee, your logic is astounding! Ad hominem much?



 

double tap

Fox News hates Catholics? I thought Bill O'Reilly was Catholic?

This

What are you, 13?

Disagreeing with someone over lifestyle isn't indicative of fear.

I don't drink and in general disapprove of alcohol for consumption but that doesn't mean I'm methyphobic.

Even my gay friends who know I don't approve of their lifestyle know I don't want to stone them. They don't care for my religious lifestyle and I can tell they don't want to murder me.

I don't talk Jesus and they don't talk sodomy. It's an excellent arrangement.

Somehow, we still manage to be friends because we are mature adults who can agree to disagree.

He is pretty close.  There is a reason the American church is all about the invasion from Central America.

 

Sorry, I can only go by Matthew 7:1-3 for this, you might have a more direct line to your deity, I don't.  I have to rely on god doing the judging.  

I wonder what the impetus was? Did they see something? Did somebody say something? Why all of the pandering change all of the sudden?

Wait, there's someone here who actually has more than a rudimentary understanding of how the Catholic church works? What website am I on? No way I'm still on Arfcom.

Just a bit of an update on this thread - as it appears media outlets around the world has decided to put their spin on the midterm report of the Extraordinary Synod of Bishops on the Family.  Here is the basic spin I am getting from a fairly faithful Catholic outlet.





1) The midterm report is 6000 words (about 12 pages).  It is downloadable.  For those interested, read it.


2)  It presents intersessions presented at the Synod - not conclusions on those intersessions.  There was a bit of surprise and alarm at how media outlets presented them.  In US terms - consider the intersessions as proposals for Bills.


3)  After the midterm report, the Bishops will go into small session discussion groups, then return to general discussion.  At that point they will essentially create a proposal for continued study - which will take place over the next 12 months.  Those studies will be presented at the 2015 regular Synod.  I think at that time they will become formal proposals (like a US bill being presented and  being voted on by the House) and be forwarded to the Holy See.





Anyway - the midterm report is a at most a working document of issues.





General Feel -


The direction of  Pope Francis.  Love First, teach second.  This is fairly consistent with how Jesus addressed sinners.  





The term incrementalism (within the Catholic Church) refers to meeting a person where they are, and leading them from there.  Rather than saying they are not welcome in the Church unless they are perfect Saints, you love first, then try to help them with their path - a lifetime path, not an instantaneous change.





There seemed to be some common concern about streamlining the process of annulment.  This was not presented by the US Bishops.  In the US (and I assume elsewhere), an annulment is a cannon law trial.  It has a defendant (petitioner), a prosecutor (a cannon lawyer who defends the marriage), and a panel of judges (the tribunal-also cannon lawyers I think).  After the trial, if the tribunal rules in favor of the defendant, the prosecutor appeals - and it goes to the  next higher level court and is review.  





The US has massive amounts of resources to deal with this.  It is overwhelming in other parts of the world with less resources.

----

I personally have seen incrementalism abused.  I understand the need to meet someone where they are, and to present the message in a way they can hear it and start down a better path.  The problem I have seen is when they are told a message that says they are fine were they are and they don't need to change the path they are already on.  All of us are sinners, all of us need to repent, and keep on repenting.  That is the process of knowing Jesus and accepting him into our lives.

Normalizing sin IS sin.

Cardinal Wilfrid Fox Napier said that due to the press reports the Synod may now be "“irredeemable”. His exact words: “We’re now working from a position that’s virtually irredeemable. The message has gone out that this is what synod is saying, that this is what the Catholic Church is saying. Whatever we say hereafter will seem like we’re doing damage control.”

The press spin, though, can't account for all the problems found in the document.

Cardinal Burke said the document “in fact, advances positions which many Synod Fathers do not accept and, I would say, as faithful shepherds of the flock cannot accept" and it "lacks a solid foundation in the Sacred Scriptures and the Magisterium.” Archbishop Stanislaw Gadecki, head of the Polish Bishop's council basically said the document was crap: "It focuses on exceptions, but what is needed is the proclamation of truth." and said the whole thing was "unacceptable".

And, then, of course, we get to Cardinal Gerhard Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, possibly one of the few decent German Catholic leaders left. He called the document: "Undignified, shameful, completely wrong."

Oh, and a lot of Bishops and such are saying that the document doesn't accurately reflect what was actually discussed.

Basically, what I'm reading from some outlets, blogs, and priests is near open revolt against this document. When a Cardinal says that he and others "cannot accept" something that might become official teaching, well, that's the kind of language that warms the heart of the gentlemen and ladies over at the SSPX. And we just started getting a lot of orders affiliated with that to come back.

ETA: The Church's normal strong hold on such issues is also why a ton of Anglicans just rejoined the RCC as well. They already left one church over such issues, don't see why they wouldn't do it again.

Article: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-counterfeit-synod-theres-problem.html#more

It would have been better if some of the intercessions presented would have been omitted from the report.  It did them know favors to present intercessions that were obviously against docterine.



I agree that wallowing in sin and believing your are perfect is a problem.  But I do recognize that repentance is a lifelong process.  We tend to forget what sin is.  Sin was an archery term.  We have an X on a target-.  That is the mark we aim for.  Sin is missing that mark.  We can miss the mark from action or inaction.  Often we can not see most of our misses, because they are hidden by other's.  The concept of incrimentalism is that we recognize that, and work at the first, so that the next can be seen, and so no.  The problem is not starting it and not continuing it.



An example given by a priest this morning (or yesterday).  A woman had left the Church due to a divorce.  The priest asked her to spend some time with the Holy Eucharist.  So she started going to Adoration 1hr a week.  Shortly afterwards she started on her annulment.  After a year she had her marriage regularized.  A year latter she and her husband gave up artificial contraceptive.  That is incrimental - starting small and letting it grow.

Lol, nice try at cherry picking.





If you actually read Matthew 7:1-5, you will see that Jesus is teaching us HOW to judge, rather than "never judge" as you try and claim. Remove the speck from our own eye first, then we can remove it from our brother's eye.





He was condemning those that have a fault finding type of spirit. The pharisees were great at making hasty and rash judgements upon their neighbors to make themselves look good, while they were the one's with a stone cold spiritless heart.



I guess you skipped John 7:24 and Hebrews 5:14, and other verses that teach us HOW to judge.




 
 

this..all they care about is the money...

No, I didn't skip anything, my faith goes into the fact that God will do the judging and that man will do it to please himself not god.   I am pretty confident that many people who are judging others are wearing mixed fiber clothes, enjoying shrimp and lobster and do all manner of work on sunday.   I am really comfortable leaving the judging to God.  You may not be, if so, feel free to go forth and judge everyone else to your hearts content.  No judgement from me over it.

"After a fat Pope, a lean Pope" definitely applies.

Kharn

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

*sigh*

One, most posts are now outdated as the final synod report has been issued and most of the liberal Kasperite bullshit has been stripped out and it turned out that "all the bishops are totally on board with the draft" turned out to be lies. Also, Kasper is a racist.

But, sadly, your post is accurate when discussing the Catholic Chuch in Germany. Because they do only care about the cash and learned nothing from the episcopalians and other "mainline" prot churches.

Christians are not restricted on what to wear or eat.
those restrictions were given to the Israelites.

Ah, I thought you were going by the holy book of Christians, my mistake!

So I'm guessing you never read Acts.

It's in the Bible.

Just thought I would update this one with a few quotes from the Pope from October 25.  I don't think he is going to change the Church's definition any time soon.


The liberal media has not picked much of this up.
 

I'm supposed to be at the audience next week. Very interested to hear what else he may have to say about this.
The liberal media has not picked much of this up.

They won't, because dontcha know Pope Francis is the fluffiest nicest pope ever and the first one to ever talk about mercy or being pastoral and he wants all the things the liberal press wants.

I'm also starting to think, based on stuff like this, that the entire Synod may have been a trap for people like Kasper. I have some friends and there's some blogs that have been saying that.