User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 6:13:36 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are trying to dissect this into a quantum mechanics formula. It is not that complicated. When a police officer has a pistol pointed at your face and says "get your hands out of your pants and get them where I can see them" , do what he asks so you dont get shot in the face. Very simple lesson plan, trying to break it down further than that is nothing more then mental masturbation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You have the luxury of reviewing video, as opposed to actually being the guy to confront a potentially armed criminal. Carry on being you. He can claim curiosity all he wants. All it is is pure trolling No actually it isn't. I want to learn from it, I don't see trolling at all. Whats wrong with you guys? I understand most of you already know it all, but what about those of us who do not? And why so unpleasant about shutting down conversation, what harm is there in discussing a learning experience? I am pretty sure the officers involved are going to go over it to see what they can learn, why shouldn't we benefit from others experience? (By others, I mean those involved, I understand your experience is vast, but I prefer the actual source material). You are trying to dissect this into a quantum mechanics formula. It is not that complicated. When a police officer has a pistol pointed at your face and says "get your hands out of your pants and get them where I can see them" , do what he asks so you dont get shot in the face. Very simple lesson plan, trying to break it down further than that is nothing more then mental masturbation. Best Answer Award 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 6:19:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You have the luxury of reviewing video, as opposed to actually being the guy to confront a potentially armed criminal. Carry on being you. He can claim curiosity all he wants. All it is is pure trolling No actually it isn't. I want to learn from it, I don't see trolling at all. Whats wrong with you guys? I understand most of you already know it all, but what about those of us who do not? And why so unpleasant about shutting down conversation, what harm is there in discussing a learning experience? I am pretty sure the officers involved are going to go over it to see what they can learn, why shouldn't we benefit from others experience? (By others, I mean those involved, I understand your experience is vast, but I prefer the actual source material). You are trying to dissect this into a quantum mechanics formula. It is not that complicated. When a police officer has a pistol pointed at your face and says "get your hands out of your pants and get them where I can see them" , do what he asks so you dont get shot in the face. Very simple lesson plan, trying to break it down further than that is nothing more then mental masturbation. Best Answer Award http://www.secularstudents.org/sites/default/files/winner2.jpg Very good answer ! I would add that as a civvy the time to discuss things is not when a gun is pointed at you by a LEO. We can argue who the dickhead is back at the station. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 6:57:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just got here. Not serious, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
kid might have been trying to put his hands up Just got here. Not serious, right? UncleJerr is too busy getting ready for the next Ferguson protest. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 7:09:00 PM EDT
[#4]
Why is it that this situation is so cut and dried but GD takes issue with it.
Is common sense having troubles here more often or is it me....? Good shoot... suspect did everything right to get shot, and he ended up shot.... case closed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 7:34:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Very good answer ! I would add that as a civvy the time to discuss things is not when a gun is pointed at you by a LEO. We can argue who the dickhead is back at the station.
Better yet, in court. That's what its there for. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 8:22:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This just seems like a case where every cop should be armed with a taser so these unnecessary fatal shootings do not occur. This just sucks. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 8:23:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This just seems like a case where every cop should be armed with a taser so these unnecessary fatal shootings do not occur. This just sucks. Laugh it up but this guy has a gun(s)... |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 8:25:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Laugh it up but this guy has a gun(s)... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This just seems like a case where every cop should be armed with a taser so these unnecessary fatal shootings do not occur. This just sucks. Laugh it up but this guy has a gun(s)... Citizen Review Board Material. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 8:25:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Laugh it up but this guy has a gun(s)... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This just seems like a case where every cop should be armed with a taser so these unnecessary fatal shootings do not occur. This just sucks. Laugh it up but this guy has a gun(s)... And votes! God help us. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 8:27:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Laugh it up but this guy has a gun(s)... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This just seems like a case where every cop should be armed with a taser so these unnecessary fatal shootings do not occur. This just sucks. Laugh it up but this guy has a gun(s)... Maybe he has a body cam too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 8:28:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe he has a body cam too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This just seems like a case where every cop should be armed with a taser so these unnecessary fatal shootings do not occur. This just sucks. Laugh it up but this guy has a gun(s)... Maybe he has a body cam too. Bet it takes great views of the cheeto infested keyboard in the basement. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 8:30:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bet it takes great views of the cheeto infested keyboard in the basement. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This just seems like a case where every cop should be armed with a taser so these unnecessary fatal shootings do not occur. This just sucks. Laugh it up but this guy has a gun(s)... Maybe he has a body cam too. Bet it takes great views of the cheeto infested keyboard in the basement. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 9:11:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Good shoot!
Do a search for Dillon Taylor on Facebook and you will see he was a dirt bag gang banger. He left behind a expectant baby momma who had his name tattooed on her upper arm after he died. She posted a picture of the tattoo on her Facebook page and one of the first responses was informing her that Dillon is spelled wrong! The tattoo artist spelled his name Dillion! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 9:26:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good shoot! Do a search for Dillon Taylor on Facebook and you will see he was a dirt bag gang banger. He left behind a expectant baby momma who had his name tattooed on her upper arm after he died. She posted a picture of the tattoo on her Facebook page and one of the first responses was informing her that Dillon is spelled wrong! The tattoo artist spelled his name Dillion! http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd507/Roadhawk1/0cfa8f655ef72367948f2e70a1708831.jpg Meth and neck tats go together like ham and eggs. ETA: Raiders fan LOL |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 9:39:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good shoot! Do a search for Dillon Taylor on Facebook and you will see he was a dirt bag gang banger. He left behind a expectant baby momma who had his name tattooed on her upper arm after he died. She posted a picture of the tattoo on her Facebook page and one of the first responses was informing her that Dillon is spelled wrong! The tattoo artist spelled his name Dillion! http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd507/Roadhawk1/0cfa8f655ef72367948f2e70a1708831.jpg 
I've been sucking his dick for the past six months, I don't know his real name or birth day. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 11:13:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would argue yes for 2. Suspect is clearly attempting to appear to be armed and is using the illusion of concealing a weapon to resist arrest. That type of behavior would qualify as a type of assault many places. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Graham vs Connor/4th Amendment: 1. Is the suspect an immediate threat to officer or others? 2. Is the suspect actively resisting arrest? 3. Is the situation Tense, Uncertain, and Rapidly evolving? 4. Is the suspect attempting to evade seizure by flight? 5. What is the severity of the crime at issue? 1. In hindsight no, but shootee did his best to appear to be one at the moment of the shooting (and succeeded). 2. No. 3. Yes. 4. Yes. 5. Pretty serious. I would argue yes for 2. Suspect is clearly attempting to appear to be armed and is using the illusion of concealing a weapon to resist arrest. That type of behavior would qualify as a type of assault many places. You've convinced me, yes on #2 for pretending to draw a gun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 11:16:38 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
#1 - And remember the Supremes have stated emphatically that you cannot used hindsight to determine if the officers actions were justified. Like, "...well it turned out to be a fake gun (or no gun and the shot person was acting like they had a gun) so it is a bad shoot..." Yes, I understand that. Tried to make that point with my ~20 word "answer" to #1, but you've clarified it better here. DA did a good job of considering just what the officer knew at the time of the shooting in his decision, as he is supposed to. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 11:19:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yep. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Needed 3 to 5 shots instead of one. I believe the officer gave him two, not just one. News report said 'shot in chest and stomach' |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 11:44:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My thoughts exactly. Good shoot but I wouldve waited. Armchair quarterbacking is pretty easy though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Meh.... based on what I saw, I probably wouldn't have fired, but who knows. I'm not a cop... Still, I have no problem with this. My thoughts exactly. Good shoot but I wouldve waited. Armchair quarterbacking is pretty easy though. What, EXACTLY would you have waited for? For him to draw, present, and fire? Action is faster than reaction. In your apparently vast experience in dealing with drunk, belligerant, armed suspects, when would you fire? After the first round hits you? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/1/2014 11:55:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was driving behind a car last night on my way home that had "JUSTICE FOR TAYLOR!!!" painted on the back window There are plenty of Ferguson wannabees here who are trying their best to make this into a racial issue. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 12:29:20 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are plenty of Ferguson wannabees here who are trying their best to make this into a racial issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was driving behind a car last night on my way home that had "JUSTICE FOR TAYLOR!!!" painted on the back window There are plenty of Ferguson wannabees here who are trying their best to make this into a racial issue. Rod Arquette discussed this on his radio show the other day. Callers were full of derp. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 1:12:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rod Arquette discussed this on his radio show the other day. Callers were full of derp. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I was driving behind a car last night on my way home that had "JUSTICE FOR TAYLOR!!!" painted on the back window There are plenty of Ferguson wannabees here who are trying their best to make this into a racial issue. Rod Arquette discussed this on his radio show the other day. Callers were full of derp. They had the guy's brother on the news this morning. I felt sorry for him, but man the guy was deluded. You see the same attitude in the mother down in Saratoga Springs: So what if my baby was carrying a samurai sword and had tried to kill my daughter a few months ago? He wouldn't hurt anyone! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 1:35:53 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmmm, I am not. So the police have no duty to have a reason to believe that they are in danger before they shoot someone? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What would happen to you or me, if we shot someone without seeing a weapon? Are you confronting a reported armed burglary suspect who is drunk with active felony warrants that is acting like he is pulling a gun from under his shirt in direct confrontation with a uniformed person? Hmmm, I am not. So the police have no duty to have a reason to believe that they are in danger before they shoot someone? Does your mom know you are on the intraweb? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 2:09:47 AM EDT
[#24]
I hope the officer has all the support in the world in his recovery from this incident, as well as little backlash. The aftermath of these things is a troubling time and an emotional rollercoaster full of self reflection. I was very lucky to have all the support of my department and most importantly my family and it helped tremendously with my issues after the fact. I wish the same for this officer. Hopefully he will be able to return to duty if he so wishes, but he will never be the same.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 2:29:27 AM EDT
[#25]
Good Shoot. Hope the officer is able to deal with the mental/emotional effects that will follow.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 9:17:05 AM EDT
[#26]
The family and friends of the deceased are claiming that he was just pulling up his shirt to show he had no weapon.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 9:46:06 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This just seems like a case where every cop should be armed with a taser so these unnecessary fatal shootings do not occur. This just sucks. I'm hoping this is a troll post. Would you draw a Taser on somebody who you've been told had a gun? Your use of force is equal to or one level up from what the suspect is using/believed to be using. If I believe the suspect to be using a deadly weapon, my response is not to draw a less lethal weapon. That's how officers get killed. We have the luxury here to Monday morning quarterback this all day long, and play the video back over and over again. The officer on scene had a split second to make a decision. Keep in mind, the officer responding had received information that the suspect had a gun. The suspect was holding his hands in his waist line. When the suspect removed his hands from his waistband, he did so in a motion indicating that he was drawing a weapon, i.e. grasping the front of his shirt with one hand to lift it up, while reaching for his hip with the other hand, exactly as you would draw a gun from concealment. We use the "reasonable person standard" when dealing with this type of situation. Would a reasonable person believe there life was in imminent danger in this situation? Absolutely. And let's remember that imminent means "right now", as in, "I don't have a chance to do anything but react". |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 11:06:12 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You've convinced me, yes on #2 for pretending to draw a gun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Graham vs Connor/4th Amendment: 1. Is the suspect an immediate threat to officer or others? 2. Is the suspect actively resisting arrest? 3. Is the situation Tense, Uncertain, and Rapidly evolving? 4. Is the suspect attempting to evade seizure by flight? 5. What is the severity of the crime at issue? 1. In hindsight no, but shootee did his best to appear to be one at the moment of the shooting (and succeeded). 2. No. 3. Yes. 4. Yes. 5. Pretty serious. I would argue yes for 2. Suspect is clearly attempting to appear to be armed and is using the illusion of concealing a weapon to resist arrest. That type of behavior would qualify as a type of assault many places. You've convinced me, yes on #2 for pretending to draw a gun. Active "resisting" is the walking away and refusing to submit. Passive resisting would be remaining motionless and refusing to do anything at all. Resisting... not fighting. not "simulating an assault" that's a whole different ballgame. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 12:04:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok I gotta give you that one.  
I'm also a prick because I've been up for 24 hrs and still can't sleep for some reason. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think some of your earlier posts in other threads justify some of my opinion but no I don't put you in the Ferguson camp. I guess I'm just tired of everyone always saying "let's discuss it" and start finding legal text to start playing the what fits and what doesn't game. I mean really, what is there to discuss? That's the problem with this country. Everyone wants to discuss everything and hand wring. It is what it is. It was a legit response to a shitty situation. God help us when the Military starts having cameras hanging off of every surface of their body and shoved up their asses every time they make a move. You know it's going to happen and when it does and when everyone is playing youTube UCMJ we will really be screwed. (joke) maybe General DISCUSSION isn't the right place for you.  Ok I gotta give you that one.
I'm also a prick because I've been up for 24 hrs and still can't sleep for some reason. Midnights? It happens to me a lot (exhausted and cant sleep). Working nights kind of messes with your body clock. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 12:07:18 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would you employ a taser against someone you believe to be armed with a gun? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This just seems like a case where every cop should be armed with a taser so these unnecessary fatal shootings do not occur. This just sucks. Why would you employ a taser against someone you believe to be armed with a gun? Because he knows not of what he speaks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 2:00:06 PM EDT
[#31]
Man, the dead thug couldn't spell for shit.
My brain hurts from reading his posts on FB. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 2:09:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good shoot! Do a search for Dillon Taylor on Facebook and you will see he was a dirt bag gang banger. He left behind a expectant baby momma who had his name tattooed on her upper arm after he died. She posted a picture of the tattoo on her Facebook page and one of the first responses was informing her that Dillon is spelled wrong! The tattoo artist spelled his name Dillion! http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd507/Roadhawk1/0cfa8f655ef72367948f2e70a1708831.jpg LOL. Classic!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 2:09:40 PM EDT
[#33]
Pop and drop.
Edit for no poop
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 2:13:07 PM EDT
[#34]
Why did he put his hands down his pants as he was walking away?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 2:14:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why did he put his hands down his pants as he was walking away? To check his eminent man tool before he became deceased? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 2:15:41 PM EDT
[#36]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 2:18:46 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Active "resisting" is the walking away and refusing to submit. Passive resisting would be remaining motionless and refusing to do anything at all. Resisting... not fighting. not "simulating an assault" that's a whole different ballgame. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Graham vs Connor/4th Amendment: 1. Is the suspect an immediate threat to officer or others? 2. Is the suspect actively resisting arrest? 3. Is the situation Tense, Uncertain, and Rapidly evolving? 4. Is the suspect attempting to evade seizure by flight? 5. What is the severity of the crime at issue? 1. In hindsight no, but shootee did his best to appear to be one at the moment of the shooting (and succeeded). 2. No. 3. Yes. 4. Yes. 5. Pretty serious. I would argue yes for 2. Suspect is clearly attempting to appear to be armed and is using the illusion of concealing a weapon to resist arrest. That type of behavior would qualify as a type of assault many places. You've convinced me, yes on #2 for pretending to draw a gun. Active "resisting" is the walking away and refusing to submit. Passive resisting would be remaining motionless and refusing to do anything at all. Resisting... not fighting. not "simulating an assault" that's a whole different ballgame. In my AO, walking away like the suspect here is doing would not legally be considered "resisting arrest". However, for the purposes of Graham v. Connor, it would be considered resisting/assault. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 2:19:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Man, the dead thug couldn't spell for shit. My brain hurts from reading his posts on FB. Give him a break man. He was at rock bottem. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 2:26:01 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To check his eminent man tool before he became deceased? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why did he put his hands down his pants as he was walking away? To check his eminent man tool before he became deceased? Well it's the last thing he would ever touch. If you have someone holding a gun up and at the ready to shoot you, cop or not, you are at their mercy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 2:50:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The family and friends of the deceased are claiming that he was just pulling up his shirt to show he had no weapon. and that's possible, but it was very poor timing and execution if that were really the goal (which I'm skeptical of). |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 3:44:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Just me, but after watching the raw vid hell I probably would have fired way sooner than this guy did. i'm also not a cop. i bet that is a hell of a terrifying position to be in.
Also... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good shoot! Do a search for Dillon Taylor on Facebook and you will see he was a dirt bag gang banger. He left behind a expectant baby momma who had his name tattooed on her upper arm after he died. She posted a picture of the tattoo on her Facebook page and one of the first responses was informing her that Dillon is spelled wrong! The tattoo artist spelled his name Dillion! ... holy shit... |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 4:19:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Give him a break man. He was at rock bottem. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Man, the dead thug couldn't spell for shit. My brain hurts from reading his posts on FB. Give him a break man. He was at rock bottem. What you did there... I like it 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 4:57:45 PM EDT
[#43]
How a similar shooting would go for a non-leo would depend on the law where you live. The standard in Kentucky is 'reasonable fear of death or severe bodily injury' and the law specifies that you can be wrong in defense of yourself about what the actual circumstances were.
An example could be; You here something outside and go check. It is evening and the light is poor. You find someone in your storage building and you draw down and order them to freeze. They sweep their hand back towards their waist line while turning towards you. Believing they are drawing a weapon you fire and kill them. Turns out they are unarmed. Even though you were wrong about the weapon you had a legitimate fear and the shooting would be justified under our self defense laws here. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/2/2014 6:06:07 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This just seems like a case where every cop should be armed with a taser so these unnecessary fatal shootings do not occur. This just sucks. The only one it sucks for is the cop. You get reported as having a gun, don't listen to a cop with a drawn sidearm, and then act like you're pulling a gun? Gonna get shot, and rightly so. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
