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Posted: 9/30/2014 9:27:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Where's the sarcastic "furtive movement" crowd?
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Posted: 9/30/2014 9:31:14 PM EDT
[#2]
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Part in red happens a lot. Property/business owners do it too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What would happen to you or me, if we shot someone without seeing a weapon? Are you confronting a reported armed burglary suspect who is drunk with active felony warrants that is acting like he is pulling a gun from under his shirt in direct confrontation with a uniformed person? Part in red happens a lot. Property/business owners do it too. Confronting armed burglary suspects happens a lot? You know a lot of property/business owners who have confronted armed burglars? |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 9:39:48 PM EDT
[#3]
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You must be fucking blind. Or maybe you're intentionally being obtuse. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What would happen to you or me, if we shot someone without seeing a weapon? Are you confronting a reported armed burglary suspect who is drunk with active felony warrants that is acting like he is pulling a gun from under his shirt in direct confrontation with a uniformed person? Hmmm, I am not. So the police have no duty to have a reason to believe that they are in danger before they shoot someone? You must be fucking blind. Or maybe you're intentionally being obtuse. Sorry, I am not as high speed as you, I try to look at each individual occurrence and see what I can learn, I know I ought to not, but thats just how I do things. Why so unpleasant about a simple disagreement? |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 9:40:51 PM EDT
[#4]
good shoot, ...the punk gets the Darwin award...
...by the looks of him, ...I doubt there will be a flock the wace-baiters, eric holder, Sharpton, et al showing up in town... |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 9:44:00 PM EDT
[#5]
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Sorry, I am not as high speed as you, I try to look at each individual occurrence and see what I can learn, I know I ought to not, but thats just how I do things. Why so unpleasant about a simple disagreement? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What would happen to you or me, if we shot someone without seeing a weapon? Are you confronting a reported armed burglary suspect who is drunk with active felony warrants that is acting like he is pulling a gun from under his shirt in direct confrontation with a uniformed person? Hmmm, I am not. So the police have no duty to have a reason to believe that they are in danger before they shoot someone? You must be fucking blind. Or maybe you're intentionally being obtuse. Sorry, I am not as high speed as you, I try to look at each individual occurrence and see what I can learn, I know I ought to not, but thats just how I do things. Why so unpleasant about a simple disagreement? You have the luxury of reviewing video, as opposed to actually being the guy to confront a potentially armed criminal. Carry on being you. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 9:58:10 PM EDT
[#6]
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Good shoot. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 9:58:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Good shoot
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Posted: 9/30/2014 10:01:02 PM EDT
[#8]
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What would happen to you or me, if we shot someone without seeing a weapon? Were you placed in reasonable fear for your life? If the answer is yes then it's a good shoot |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 10:02:44 PM EDT
[#9]
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Hmmm, I am not. So the police have no duty to have a reason to believe that they are in danger before they shoot someone? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What would happen to you or me, if we shot someone without seeing a weapon? Are you confronting a reported armed burglary suspect who is drunk with active felony warrants that is acting like he is pulling a gun from under his shirt in direct confrontation with a uniformed person? Hmmm, I am not. So the police have no duty to have a reason to believe that they are in danger before they shoot someone? He did feel he was in danger. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 10:07:25 PM EDT
[#10]
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You have the luxury of reviewing video, as opposed to actually being the guy to confront a potentially armed criminal. Carry on being you. He can claim curiosity all he wants. All it is is pure trolling |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 10:22:50 PM EDT
[#11]
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You have the luxury of reviewing video, as opposed to actually being the guy to confront a potentially armed criminal. Carry on being you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What would happen to you or me, if we shot someone without seeing a weapon? Hmmm, I am not. So the police have no duty to have a reason to believe that they are in danger before they shoot someone? You must be fucking blind. Or maybe you're intentionally being obtuse. Sorry, I am not as high speed as you, I try to look at each individual occurrence and see what I can learn, I know I ought to not, but thats just how I do things. Why so unpleasant about a simple disagreement? You have the luxury of reviewing video, as opposed to actually being the guy to confront a potentially armed criminal. Carry on being you. Yes, I have the luxury, but it seems we are not to discuss what we see. It sort of makes no sense to me, someone died (as much as they may have deserved it), lessons ought to be gleaned from what we can see and discuss. Otherwise it seems a bit of a waste to me. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 10:25:23 PM EDT
[#12]
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He can claim curiosity all he wants. All it is is pure trolling Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You have the luxury of reviewing video, as opposed to actually being the guy to confront a potentially armed criminal. Carry on being you. He can claim curiosity all he wants. All it is is pure trolling No actually it isn't. I want to learn from it, I don't see trolling at all. Whats wrong with you guys? I understand most of you already know it all, but what about those of us who do not? And why so unpleasant about shutting down conversation, what harm is there in discussing a learning experience? I am pretty sure the officers involved are going to go over it to see what they can learn, why shouldn't we benefit from others experience? (By others, I mean those involved, I understand your experience is vast, but I prefer the actual source material). |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 10:29:51 PM EDT
[#13]
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No actually it isn't. I want to learn from it, I don't see trolling at all. Whats wrong with you guys? I understand most of you already know it all, but what about those of us who do not? And why so unpleasant about shutting down conversation, what harm is there in discussing a learning experience? I am pretty sure the officers involved are going to go over it to see what they can learn, why shouldn't we benefit from others experience? (By others, I mean those involved, I understand your experience is vast, but I prefer the actual source material). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You have the luxury of reviewing video, as opposed to actually being the guy to confront a potentially armed criminal. Carry on being you. He can claim curiosity all he wants. All it is is pure trolling No actually it isn't. I want to learn from it, I don't see trolling at all. Whats wrong with you guys? I understand most of you already know it all, but what about those of us who do not? And why so unpleasant about shutting down conversation, what harm is there in discussing a learning experience? I am pretty sure the officers involved are going to go over it to see what they can learn, why shouldn't we benefit from others experience? (By others, I mean those involved, I understand your experience is vast, but I prefer the actual source material). Translation... 
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Posted: 9/30/2014 10:30:13 PM EDT
[#14]
No problem with this. Good shoot.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 10:55:59 PM EDT
[#15]
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Translation... http://www.pxleyes.com/images/users/a/angie1975/3984/fullsize/4f4f7616aa4e0.gif Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You have the luxury of reviewing video, as opposed to actually being the guy to confront a potentially armed criminal. Carry on being you. He can claim curiosity all he wants. All it is is pure trolling No actually it isn't. I want to learn from it, I don't see trolling at all. Whats wrong with you guys? I understand most of you already know it all, but what about those of us who do not? And why so unpleasant about shutting down conversation, what harm is there in discussing a learning experience? I am pretty sure the officers involved are going to go over it to see what they can learn, why shouldn't we benefit from others experience? (By others, I mean those involved, I understand your experience is vast, but I prefer the actual source material). Translation... http://www.pxleyes.com/images/users/a/angie1975/3984/fullsize/4f4f7616aa4e0.gif At least this department didn't abort the idea of body cams. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 10:58:06 PM EDT
[#16]
The kid intentionally made his hands appear as if he was drawing from concealment.
On his facebook, he said he had hit "rock bottem". He wanted to die, while his brother and cousin did not. They put their hands up and posed no threat when the police showed up. The suspect chose a different path, resulting in him getting burned down. Sad for the family and friends, as well as the officer, who now has to live with such a life-changing decision. He really believed the deceased had a gun and intended to do him harm, especially considering the background of the case and the reason for LEO response in the first place. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:05:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Is there a different link to the video? I can't get it to work for some reason that I don't feel like troubleshooting.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:07:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not any of it. I read it as you did. I am wondering though, what would happen to me or any other citizen who is not a LEO, who shot someone because they were afraid of what could be, as opposed to what was really happening. That is a reasonable question to discuss, isn't it? As, we all are not LEO's here, but we all carry guns here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What would happen to you or me, if we shot someone without seeing a weapon? Are you confronting a reported armed burglary suspect who is drunk with active felony warrants that is acting like he is pulling a gun from under his shirt in direct confrontation with a uniformed person? Hmmm, I am not. So the police have no duty to have a reason to believe that they are in danger before they shoot someone? What part of "reported armed" or "active felony warrants" and "acting like he is pulling a gun from under his shirt" did you miss? Not any of it. I read it as you did. I am wondering though, what would happen to me or any other citizen who is not a LEO, who shot someone because they were afraid of what could be, as opposed to what was really happening. That is a reasonable question to discuss, isn't it? As, we all are not LEO's here, but we all carry guns here. Well in at least one case that happened here, you walk without even being arrested. "Michael James Mays, 47, was shot dead July 9 outside the restaurant, 1394 S. West Temple, while coming at off-duty security guard George Harrison, 59, in a threatening manner and apparently reaching into his waistband for a gun, according to prosecutors." http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10063162 |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:07:56 PM EDT
[#19]
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What would happen to you or me, if we shot someone without seeing a weapon? |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:10:01 PM EDT
[#20]
let me do some Tuesday chairborne commando thingy.
The gun should have not been pointed that high. Had the officer saw the actual hand and what it was doing then perhaps he could have seen that it was an empty hand. However even that would not have changed the outcome of the incident. Notice that the sun was behind the suspect's back. It probably would have been hard for him to see what was happening in the hand thanks to sunlight in the officers eye and shadow of suspect's body. and the suspect acted like he was pulling a gun, not a hand. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:12:31 PM EDT
[#21]
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good shoot, ...the punk gets the Darwin award... ...by the looks of him, ...I doubt there will be a flock the wace-baiters, eric holder, Sharpton, et al showing up in town... Did you watch the video? Why would there be, he was white 
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:20:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depends on where you live and your local DA. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I understand, I am not trying to pin any blame for a bad shoot on the officer, I am trying to figure out what would happen to me, if in my home, I see someone and shoot them, and no weapon is found (Assume no castle doctrine). If I tell the truth that I was afraid because he had his back turned to me, and I did not want to shoot him in the back, but I shot him as soon as he turned. What would be the outcome? If this thread is simply to cheer that the LEO had a good shoot, I am good with that and will back out, if there is something I can learn that I can apply to my own life, thats good to. Depends on where you live and your local DA. Salt Lake County's district attorney (Sim Gill) is an interesting fellow. He's hung a few officers out to dry (that department has been having problems for years) and has taken some hard stands supporting officers as well. Overall, I like the guy and will vote for him again. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:27:31 PM EDT
[#23]
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Not any of it. I read it as you did. I am wondering though, what would happen to me or any other citizen who is not a LEO, who shot someone because they were afraid of what could be, as opposed to what was really happening. That is a reasonable question to discuss, isn't it? As, we all are not LEO's here, but we all carry guns here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hmmm, I am not. So the police have no duty to have a reason to believe that they are in danger before they shoot someone? What part of "reported armed" or "active felony warrants" and "acting like he is pulling a gun from under his shirt" did you miss? Not any of it. I read it as you did. I am wondering though, what would happen to me or any other citizen who is not a LEO, who shot someone because they were afraid of what could be, as opposed to what was really happening. That is a reasonable question to discuss, isn't it? As, we all are not LEO's here, but we all carry guns here. You're twisting the words a bit too much to claim that you're just asking a question. Refer to the part in bold. The cop didn't just shoot the guy. He answered a call for a man with a gun and shot someone who walked away, concealed his hands, and then faked as if he was drawing a handgun. He did not shoot him because he was just standing there when the cop arrived. Arizona has some form of castle doctrine, IIRC. Under that law, you can shoot an intruder in your home even if you can plainly see that he's not armed. In some situations, the cops get to use deadly force. In some situations, you do. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:33:54 PM EDT
[#24]
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At least this department didn't abort the idea of body cams. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You have the luxury of reviewing video, as opposed to actually being the guy to confront a potentially armed criminal. Carry on being you. He can claim curiosity all he wants. All it is is pure trolling No actually it isn't. I want to learn from it, I don't see trolling at all. Whats wrong with you guys? I understand most of you already know it all, but what about those of us who do not? And why so unpleasant about shutting down conversation, what harm is there in discussing a learning experience? I am pretty sure the officers involved are going to go over it to see what they can learn, why shouldn't we benefit from others experience? (By others, I mean those involved, I understand your experience is vast, but I prefer the actual source material). Translation... http://www.pxleyes.com/images/users/a/angie1975/3984/fullsize/4f4f7616aa4e0.gif At least this department didn't abort the idea of body cams. Zing! 
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:35:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Sucks for everyone, but I have a always complied when a gun was in my face. It goes much better that way.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:36:43 PM EDT
[#26]
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I am not one to pile on a Law Enforcement Officer, it just seems strange that they fired without seeing any weapon (I did not see any weapon, or anything that looked like a weapon), and I am not trolling at all when I ask, are they able to fire simply because they are afraid of what might be, as opposed to what actually is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It won't make any difference in the minds of some, like those in the Ferguson riots. They make up their minds ahead of them as to what happened and why it happened, and the only thing they'll see or listen to is what agrees with their fantasy scenario or whips them into more of a frenzy. At least it vindicates the officer in the eyes of the law, but IMO it won't make him any less of a target. I am not one to pile on a Law Enforcement Officer, it just seems strange that they fired without seeing any weapon (I did not see any weapon, or anything that looked like a weapon), and I am not trolling at all when I ask, are they able to fire simply because they are afraid of what might be, as opposed to what actually is. Graham vs Connor/4th Amendment: 1. Is the suspect an immediate threat to officer or others? 2. Is the suspect actively resisting arrest? 3. Is the situation Tense, Uncertain, and Rapidly evolving? 4. Is the suspect attempting to evade seizure by flight? 5. What is the severity of the crime at issue? |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:40:22 PM EDT
[#27]
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Drunk and suicide by cop. Yup. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:43:11 PM EDT
[#28]
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Sucks for everyone, but I have a always complied when a gun was in my face. It goes much better that way. You are officially invited to date night then. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:46:53 PM EDT
[#29]
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Where's the sarcastic "furtive movement" crowd? Maybe busy getting this one in the Hall of Fame as THE quintessential furtive-movement shoot? |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 12:50:29 AM EDT
[#30]
LEO was placed in a lose/lose situation but the suspect escalated the situation. This is why I'm a very big fan of body cameras because you can see from the officer's perspective. Even though this officer will be cleared in the shooting, he'll have to live with this the rest of his life. Just sad.
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Posted: 10/1/2014 12:57:41 AM EDT
[#31]
Meh.
Oh well. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 1:05:05 AM EDT
[#32]
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In before the riots, loads of "hands up don't shoot" signs, and comments about how it isn't safe for black children to walk the streets anymore. I managed to walk the streets just fine for 25 years before i became a cop. I must be special. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 1:18:13 AM EDT
[#33]
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Graham vs Connor/4th Amendment: 1. Is the suspect an immediate threat to officer or others? 2. Is the suspect actively resisting arrest? 3. Is the situation Tense, Uncertain, and Rapidly evolving? 4. Is the suspect attempting to evade seizure by flight? 5. What is the severity of the crime at issue? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It won't make any difference in the minds of some, like those in the Ferguson riots. They make up their minds ahead of them as to what happened and why it happened, and the only thing they'll see or listen to is what agrees with their fantasy scenario or whips them into more of a frenzy. At least it vindicates the officer in the eyes of the law, but IMO it won't make him any less of a target. I am not one to pile on a Law Enforcement Officer, it just seems strange that they fired without seeing any weapon (I did not see any weapon, or anything that looked like a weapon), and I am not trolling at all when I ask, are they able to fire simply because they are afraid of what might be, as opposed to what actually is. Graham vs Connor/4th Amendment: 1. Is the suspect an immediate threat to officer or others? 2. Is the suspect actively resisting arrest? 3. Is the situation Tense, Uncertain, and Rapidly evolving? 4. Is the suspect attempting to evade seizure by flight? 5. What is the severity of the crime at issue? Even more simply put. 3 criteria for deadly force. Did the suspect have the ability to do harm? Yes: the suspect was a seemingly healthy adult male with the physical ability to do harm Did the suspect have the opportunity to do harm? Yes: the suspect was present and in close proximity to the officers. Was the officer in (perceived) jeopardy? This is the only subjective part. If you were to take the totality of the circumstances, and add that to total non-compliance to clear and direct commands, I don't see why the officer would expect any less than a deadly force encounter when the suspect turns and faces him with concealed hands. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 1:43:57 AM EDT
[#34]
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What would happen to you or me, if we shot someone without seeing a weapon? How often are you responding to calls of "man armed with a gun?" |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 1:46:37 AM EDT
[#35]
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Hmmm, I am not. So the police have no duty to have a reason to believe that they are in danger before they shoot someone? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What would happen to you or me, if we shot someone without seeing a weapon? Are you confronting a reported armed burglary suspect who is drunk with active felony warrants that is acting like he is pulling a gun from under his shirt in direct confrontation with a uniformed person? Hmmm, I am not. So the police have no duty to have a reason to believe that they are in danger before they shoot someone? He didn't have reason to believe his life was in danger? 
Dude responded to a "man with a gun call" and after showing up witnessed a person fitting the description, walking away, and holding his hands in his waistband (common place people keep firearms.) This same guy refuses to comply with commands to show his hands and then in a quick furtive movement acts like he's drawing a gun. You wouldn't be in fear for your life? You must be fucking dense if that doesn't pique your "oh shit" meter.
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Posted: 10/1/2014 1:52:40 AM EDT
[#36]
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Confronting armed burglary suspects happens a lot? You know a lot of property/business owners who have confronted armed burglars? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What would happen to you or me, if we shot someone without seeing a weapon? Are you confronting a reported armed burglary suspect who is drunk with active felony warrants that is acting like he is pulling a gun from under his shirt in direct confrontation with a uniformed person? Part in red happens a lot. Property/business owners do it too. Confronting armed burglary suspects happens a lot? You know a lot of property/business owners who have confronted armed burglars? Seems dumb as shit to me. Plus those business owners aren't going to be in the same situation. They aren't getting dispatched to the incident based on third party information. If you're a business owner and you're confronting a burglary suspect, they are either armed (because you can see it) or they aren't (you can't see it.) That is nothing like being dispatched to a call and going into it believing the person your confronting is armed with a gun. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 2:23:59 AM EDT
[#37]
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Well in at least one case that happened here, you walk without even being arrested. "Michael James Mays, 47, was shot dead July 9 outside the restaurant, 1394 S. West Temple, while coming at off-duty security guard George Harrison, 59, in a threatening manner and apparently reaching into his waistband for a gun, according to prosecutors." http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10063162 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hmmm, I am not. So the police have no duty to have a reason to believe that they are in danger before they shoot someone? What part of "reported armed" or "active felony warrants" and "acting like he is pulling a gun from under his shirt" did you miss? Not any of it. I read it as you did. I am wondering though, what would happen to me or any other citizen who is not a LEO, who shot someone because they were afraid of what could be, as opposed to what was really happening. That is a reasonable question to discuss, isn't it? As, we all are not LEO's here, but we all carry guns here. Well in at least one case that happened here, you walk without even being arrested. "Michael James Mays, 47, was shot dead July 9 outside the restaurant, 1394 S. West Temple, while coming at off-duty security guard George Harrison, 59, in a threatening manner and apparently reaching into his waistband for a gun, according to prosecutors." http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10063162 This is the incident that came to mind for me as well. Ruling seems consistent with past ones around here. Justifiable shoot. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 2:30:59 AM EDT
[#38]
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Graham vs Connor/4th Amendment: 1. Is the suspect an immediate threat to officer or others? 2. Is the suspect actively resisting arrest? 3. Is the situation Tense, Uncertain, and Rapidly evolving? 4. Is the suspect attempting to evade seizure by flight? 5. What is the severity of the crime at issue? 1. In hindsight no, but shootee did his best to appear to be one at the moment of the shooting (and succeeded). 2. No. 3. Yes. 4. Yes. 5. Pretty serious. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 2:40:28 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Were you placed in reasonable fear for your life? If the answer is yes then it's a good shoot Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What would happen to you or me, if we shot someone without seeing a weapon? Were you placed in reasonable fear for your life? If the answer is yes then it's a good shoot means, opportunity, and intent. Based on what the cop knew, all 3 were present. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 2:42:23 AM EDT
[#40]
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means, opportunity, and intent. Based on what the cop knew, all 3 were present. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What would happen to you or me, if we shot someone without seeing a weapon? Were you placed in reasonable fear for your life? If the answer is yes then it's a good shoot means, opportunity, and intent. Based on what the cop knew, all 3 were present. Absolutely |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 2:58:02 AM EDT
[#41]
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1. In hindsight no, but shootee did his best to appear to be one at the moment of the shooting (and succeeded). 2. No. 3. Yes. 4. Yes. 5. Pretty serious. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Graham vs Connor/4th Amendment: 1. Is the suspect an immediate threat to officer or others? 2. Is the suspect actively resisting arrest? 3. Is the situation Tense, Uncertain, and Rapidly evolving? 4. Is the suspect attempting to evade seizure by flight? 5. What is the severity of the crime at issue? 1. In hindsight no, but shootee did his best to appear to be one at the moment of the shooting (and succeeded). 2. No. 3. Yes. 4. Yes. 5. Pretty serious. 2 - YES You really should go find a different forum to pollute. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 3:15:35 AM EDT
[#42]
I'd of shot in a similar situation, good shoot and good shooting.
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Posted: 10/1/2014 3:18:30 AM EDT
[#43]
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What part of "reported armed" or "active felony warrants" and "acting like he is pulling a gun from under his shirt" did you miss? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What would happen to you or me, if we shot someone without seeing a weapon? Are you confronting a reported armed burglary suspect who is drunk with active felony warrants that is acting like he is pulling a gun from under his shirt in direct confrontation with a uniformed person? Hmmm, I am not. So the police have no duty to have a reason to believe that they are in danger before they shoot someone? What part of "reported armed" or "active felony warrants" and "acting like he is pulling a gun from under his shirt" did you miss? FWIW, the officer did not know about any of the active felony warrants at the time. But the rest is valid. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 3:21:26 AM EDT
[#44]
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2 - YES You really should go find a different forum to pollute. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Graham vs Connor/4th Amendment: 1. Is the suspect an immediate threat to officer or others? 2. Is the suspect actively resisting arrest? 3. Is the situation Tense, Uncertain, and Rapidly evolving? 4. Is the suspect attempting to evade seizure by flight? 5. What is the severity of the crime at issue? 1. In hindsight no, but shootee did his best to appear to be one at the moment of the shooting (and succeeded). 2. No. 3. Yes. 4. Yes. 5. Pretty serious. 2 - YES You really should go find a different forum to pollute. If walking away is considered "actively resisting arrest" then why even ask #4? It would be redundant / already covered by #2. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 3:24:33 AM EDT
[#45]
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If walking away is considered "actively resisting arrest" then why even ask #4? It would be redundant / already covered by #2. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Graham vs Connor/4th Amendment: 1. Is the suspect an immediate threat to officer or others? 2. Is the suspect actively resisting arrest? 3. Is the situation Tense, Uncertain, and Rapidly evolving? 4. Is the suspect attempting to evade seizure by flight? 5. What is the severity of the crime at issue? 1. In hindsight no, but shootee did his best to appear to be one at the moment of the shooting (and succeeded). 2. No. 3. Yes. 4. Yes. 5. Pretty serious. 2 - YES You really should go find a different forum to pollute. If walking away is considered "actively resisting arrest" then why even ask #4? It would be redundant / already covered by #2. Police work is riddled with redundancy and it should be. And yes he was actively resisting arrest. You don't have to be fighting off hand cuffs to be resisting, and you can also resist without fleeing so the fourth qualifier doesn't always relate to the second |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 3:25:53 AM EDT
[#46]
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If walking away is considered "actively resisting arrest" then why even ask #4? It would be redundant / already covered by #2. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Graham vs Connor/4th Amendment: 1. Is the suspect an immediate threat to officer or others? 2. Is the suspect actively resisting arrest? 3. Is the situation Tense, Uncertain, and Rapidly evolving? 4. Is the suspect attempting to evade seizure by flight? 5. What is the severity of the crime at issue? 1. In hindsight no, but shootee did his best to appear to be one at the moment of the shooting (and succeeded). 2. No. 3. Yes. 4. Yes. 5. Pretty serious. 2 - YES You really should go find a different forum to pollute. If walking away is considered "actively resisting arrest" then why even ask #4? It would be redundant / already covered by #2. You tell me you're the expert. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 3:29:12 AM EDT
[#47]
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You tell me you're the expert. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Graham vs Connor/4th Amendment: 1. Is the suspect an immediate threat to officer or others? 2. Is the suspect actively resisting arrest? 3. Is the situation Tense, Uncertain, and Rapidly evolving? 4. Is the suspect attempting to evade seizure by flight? 5. What is the severity of the crime at issue? 1. In hindsight no, but shootee did his best to appear to be one at the moment of the shooting (and succeeded). 2. No. 3. Yes. 4. Yes. 5. Pretty serious. 2 - YES You really should go find a different forum to pollute. If walking away is considered "actively resisting arrest" then why even ask #4? It would be redundant / already covered by #2. You tell me you're the expert. Fuck I hope not.... |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 3:30:10 AM EDT
[#48]
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<gets popcorn and pulls up a chair> Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile <pulls up chair next to yours and starts eating your popcorn hoping you don't notice> |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 3:31:40 AM EDT
[#49]
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<pulls up chair next to yours and starts eating your popcorn hoping you don't notice> Quote HistoryQuoted:
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<gets popcorn and pulls up a chair> Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile <pulls up chair next to yours and starts eating your popcorn hoping you don't notice> <neither of you notice the popcorn is in my lap. Needs more butter>
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Posted: 10/1/2014 3:39:27 AM EDT
[#50]
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<pulls up chair next to yours and starts eating your popcorn hoping you don't notice> Quote HistoryQuoted:
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<gets popcorn and pulls up a chair> Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile <pulls up chair next to yours and starts eating your popcorn hoping you don't notice> <Justice doesn't mind, reach deep, that is where all the butter is> 
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