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Link Posted: 9/30/2014 1:24:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Time to get a mortgage lawyer and shove him up their asses and drive home the point so they remember.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 1:24:41 PM EDT
[#2]
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That is exactly what I would suggest.  When they file the Complaint in court (assuming its a mortgage and not a deed of trust), the Complaint must lay out the alleged breach of contract.  If it is not a mistake then I would guess that something in the original contract allowed for them to demand auto payments and charge for it, even though the original lender chose not to use that.  If that was the case I would have expected them to call in the note first instead of having a lawyer threaten foreclosure.

Hang on, did you say the first letter lays out the current principle amount as the "debt" they are saying you have 30 days to dispute?  That almost does sound like them calling in the note.  They can do that even if you are current on payments.  There are many things that can allow them to call it in.  If it is only a late payment, then you will have a certain amount of time to cure the default and continue with what you were doing.
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I did read your original story, and asked a question that you have avoided answering. The fact is that they must allege a default and you are not answering this question. Therefore that is not the whole story.

 


They have not identified a triggering act.

As I said, they wouldn't let me talk to the person who initiated the default.  Their law firm said talk to them; when I called all they would tell me was that the account was currently in good standing. Law firm sent two letters; one says you have 30 days to dispute the debt (of which there is no dispute; that letter outlined the current debt and shows no  late payments or associated fees), and a second letter stating that at the request of their client they were initiating foreclosure action. That letter does not state a reason for the action.


If this is true, then it is patently illegal.


 


Which is why I passed it along to our lawyer. He thinks it's just a mistake; hence his wait and see approach.


That is exactly what I would suggest.  When they file the Complaint in court (assuming its a mortgage and not a deed of trust), the Complaint must lay out the alleged breach of contract.  If it is not a mistake then I would guess that something in the original contract allowed for them to demand auto payments and charge for it, even though the original lender chose not to use that.  If that was the case I would have expected them to call in the note first instead of having a lawyer threaten foreclosure.

Hang on, did you say the first letter lays out the current principle amount as the "debt" they are saying you have 30 days to dispute?  That almost does sound like them calling in the note.  They can do that even if you are current on payments.  There are many things that can allow them to call it in.  If it is only a late payment, then you will have a certain amount of time to cure the default and continue with what you were doing.


If they are calling the note, your attorney would know this (or should). There will also be guidelines/stipulations in your mortgage that allow them to do it; chances are they have something fucked up in their system or paperwork after the transition was made from your original lender. Very common.

If that is the case you need to have your attorney request them to prove that they have the actual certified mortgage. There is a decent chance that they don't.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 1:26:05 PM EDT
[#3]
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A few years back I was a division VP for a large lender that did mortgages, acted as the VMC through the entire process and had its own portfolio management company (separate entity) that then serviced and/or sold mortgages.

Since the golden days of letting people finance homes for more than they could ever pay, charging ridiculous fees (origination fee and title insurance, I'm looking at you) and points things had to get creative if you were dealing with sub prime loans in any way to hedge the losses you will take on defaulting mortgages. It's a sort of corporate socialism; charge the shit out of people that try their hardest to pay their bills on time to make up for those that won't. The sad thing is, you can usually tell 90% of the time who its going to be before you even make it to closing.

On the flip side, banks are getting better at being worse. After the real estate/financial services crash larger organizations like mine cut out practically any service that didn't directly generate revenue and either farmed them out and simply managed the process or dropped them all together. Unfortunately, this brought out the bottom feeder no-names like Green Tree, NationStar, CapStar, etc that will try to charge you for anything and everything as well as simply request more money for you because 75% of people are too dumb/scared/oblivious to do anything about it. It's in their best interests to fuck you, especially if you are a prime rated mortgage because while it's more likely they'll make that little bit of interest off of you over time, they want to generate as much free money from you as they can as its 100% profit.

And when you do catch them after a long drawn out process of proving your innocence, you'll be lucky to get much more than a generic email/letter stating whatever your gripe was is now corrected as a 'one time courtesy' to you or some bullshit that makes it sound like you were the problem.

Be on the lookout for:

- Raising your mortgage on a whim with zero notice other than your bill going up. Chances are if you bill pay, you send the same amount each month as you have for the last few years. This will cause rolling late fees on something trivial that will turn into a decent chunk of change that they will NEVER contact you about and just let it keep snowballing.
- Raising your escrow for absolutely zero reason and raising it a substantial amount to where when asked, they can't stipulate as to why.
- Keeping excess escrow for longer than legally able to. This will depend on your state, but most of the time they should return any excess after a set amount of time or when you ask them to. I guarantee they wait until you ask and that will probably be the runaround from hell.
- Fees for everything and telling you that its required. While some of us know its total bullshit, a lot of people fall for it. Imagine if just 1000 people fall for the 12.95 fee; that's $12,950 a month or  $155k annually in extra 100% pure cash profit to them for doing absolutely nothing.
- Changing due dates/APR dates
- Trying to screw you on your principal/interest application percentages - be very careful with this. Many times a new lender will do this on purpose because most people won't figure it out for year and years and then it becomes an immense legal issue if caught, or free money for them if not caught. They will 150% feign ignorance that it happened.


ETA - OP your attorney is correct. Sit and wait as well as make sure you have all of your payments documented by the check/clear dates. Its extremely uncommon for them to move that quickly with a foreclosure letter or even a demand letter as they LOVE late fees. Something is either very wrong here like their system is fucked up somehow and throws a flag even though you are up to date as this is the first time I've heard of any servicing company doing anything quickly.
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This is correct.  I buy foreclosures, and most of them will take 1-2 years to finish.  They don't even start the foreclosure process until you are 90 days late. (edit: a lot of the time they don't start until 90 days lat)

On a side note, make sure you keep an eye on your property taxes.   I have ended up with multiple properties that GT forgot to pay the taxes on.  
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 1:33:04 PM EDT
[#4]


Not only the physical mortgage document, but the original promissory note also.  I have seen homeowners win quiet title cases against mortgage holders who couldn't find the original documents.  Something about keeping the 2 docs together was a big deal.  That issue wont come up until discovery and the actual trial though.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 1:40:05 PM EDT
[#5]
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Not only the physical mortgage document, but the original promissory note also.  I have seen homeowners win quiet title cases against mortgage holders who couldn't find the original documents.  Something about keeping the 2 docs together was a big deal.  That issue wont come up until discovery and the actual trial though.
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We've had a case going against a title insurance company over issues with the sale of another property for over 4 years now.  I can't even express how little I want to get involved in another real estate centered lawsuit
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 1:51:16 PM EDT
[#6]
At least you didn't get a car repo'd even though you had a title in your hand because of a bank error
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 2:27:31 PM EDT
[#7]
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At least you didn't get a car repo'd even though you had a title in your hand because of a bank error
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I'm pretty sure more than words would have been exchanged should that have happened to me unless Mr repo guy would see the title and realize he was fucking up....
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 2:58:52 PM EDT
[#8]
One of our past loans was sold to BoA.  I tried contacting them at one point to refi and couldn't get through to a real human being.  Ok, f' you.  Called local credit union, started the refi process, two days later I get a next day air package from BoA with a REFI OFFER.

Again, F' you BoA
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 4:20:12 PM EDT
[#9]
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One of our past loans was sold to BoA.  I tried contacting them at one point to refi and couldn't get through to a real human being.  Ok, f' you.  Called local credit union, started the refi process, two days later I get a next day air package from BoA with a REFI OFFER.

Again, F' you BoA
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Repo guy wouldn't be in the wrong, morally, legally, or technically.


The bank fucked up and contracted him.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 7:52:30 PM EDT
[#10]
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Repo guy wouldn't be in the wrong, morally, legally, or technically.


The bank fucked up and contracted him.
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One of our past loans was sold to BoA.  I tried contacting them at one point to refi and couldn't get through to a real human being.  Ok, f' you.  Called local credit union, started the refi process, two days later I get a next day air package from BoA with a REFI OFFER.

Again, F' you BoA



Repo guy wouldn't be in the wrong, morally, legally, or technically.


The bank fucked up and contracted him.


Yeah, sure. All repo guys are honest, upstanding citizens, right? That's a dumb assumption.

A buddy told me about a repo guy trying to take his car from his driveway. Nothing matched the paperwork: address, VIN, or even car color. My friend called the cops and discussed it with them in front of the tow truck. The repo guy only left when my friend confirmed with the police that he could shoot to stop the car theft, even though it was advised against.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 7:54:53 PM EDT
[#11]
Assumption of the contract.  You take over a contract, you must take over on its original terms.  Absent extraordinary circumstances, a party may not unilaterally change a term of the contract without consent of the other party. Your lawyer knows this and that they can't do shit.  They are scum for moving on foreclosure.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 8:16:57 PM EDT
[#12]
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And the plot thickens

 
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To the best of my knowledge, OP did not agree to any proposed terms by new holder-they were instead foisted on him.

Nick


FWIW, the only thing they changed was the payment due date. The other payment issues are simply the way they prefer to do business. Sine we auto-pay from our bank, they really can't do anything about that; they would just prefer that they had direct access to the account.

The main issue is the no-notice foreclosure of a mortgage in good standing. If it isn't a mistake and they can actually do it, I'm tempted to just let them have the house. We had some damage recently that is covered by insurance and the 5 figure check on the way for that about equals our current equity in the property. My wife owned the house before we were married and if the foreclosure didn't affect my credit we would just let them have the house, unrepaired. It talks about 6 months to foreclose in PA if you argue about it.

And the plot thickens

 


I'm surprised to find  that the "five figure check" you are expecting from the insurance company isn't  a 2 party check made out to both you and the lender who is the lien holder.

Link Posted: 9/30/2014 11:09:35 PM EDT
[#13]
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I'm surprised to find  that the "five figure check" you are expecting from the insurance company isn't  a 2 party check made out to both you and the lender who is the lien holder.

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If it was made out to the lien holder how would we pay for the repairs?
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