Hold on, Dave Ramsey is saying you can expect 12% return from mutual funds consistently? He needs to put down the pipe.

http://www.daveramsey.com/blog/make-12-percent-returns-with-mutual-funds





 

If I could stay out of the gun store, I'd do a lot better.  There's just always something that I want.

Meh, I'm single with no kids so might as well have cool stuff.

Yeah. It wasn't just a one-time thing, either. People always call him out on it, and he always defends it. Pretty recurring thing.

I like a lot of what Dave says, but not all of it necessarily. For instance, not having a credit card under any circumstances, ever. I have plenty of cash on hand to pay off the CC every single month, and I get 1-5% cash for everything I buy. It does add up, and makes for some nice little bonuses here and there. If you're not an idiot, there's really no downside. But I understand what he's doing. Its a mental game for most people, and the one-size-fits-all approach eliminates any possibility for people to do the justification thing to themselves.

I agree.  He says that because a lot of people can't control themselves with plastic.  It's too convenient and too much of a temptation for them.  They never exercise self control and credit card debt is possibly the worst kind of debt to have because of the high interest rates.

My parents never completely agreed with all of Dave Ramsey's ideas.  What they and I both use is a somewhat modified version, but I had them to thank for self control.

You can definitely make more than 12% in a year, that's not the issue, but he is making appear as if it is a very attainable average year over year. He is making it sounds like you can crank a 12% return year after year after year after year. I don't even know where he pulled that number from either. None of the research I have seen, from all the big risk modeling firms ever show that average return using a markowitz model. I am not saying that return can not be done, but to do it with only mutual funds, that's a stretch.

That's easy since all of the local gun stores near me are laughably overpriced.



 

This!

Sorry, she is mine.  I've decided since she and I have a lot of hobbies in common and she is better with money than most of the men I know that you can't have her.
We'd have a grand time renovating the house.
.

Not difficult at all.  See what you can do to have it taken directly from your paycheck or bank account - 401k through work or a brokerage account that will ACH money from your bank account automatically each month.  It's like you never have it to begin with, so you don't miss it.  Maybe overly easy for me since I work for a brokerage firm, but your bank or a broker likely have options.  

BINGO.  He is speaking to his target market.... those that need rigid guidelines because they have been failing doing it their way.

Why people cant understand this is beyond me.  I have always adopted a somewhat modified version of his plan since I first read his book.  But I have personally witnessed the positive changes he has made is so many peoples lives around me, that I am a fan.

It's his (and his fans') opinion on debt I really have issue with. His is not the only way, even for broke wage workers. Sometimes, paying off debt isn't the first thing to do. Sometimes, a person should strategically default. It's not a moral issue, it's just business.

We're going to be very happy together.

I do like his advice for staying out of debt. And his advice for getting out of debt can be right, in some cases.

When you are immoral, it's easy to say that defaulting on your word, is "just business".   But then, even Dave advocates for bankruptcy in some cases, so I am not sure what you are saying.

It's ok that you believe debt is a moral issue. But there are other opinions, and it behooves a debtor to research and make up their own minds.

Strategic default and bankruptcy aren't the same thing. There are statutes of limitations, and protections for debtors, and lenders lend with full knowledge of them. It's playing by the rules.

I was doing pretty good.

Then I bought a house.
And a new truck.

Now it seems like everytime I turn around there is another $1,000+ bill associated with one or both.
Insurance, property taxes, maintenance etc.

Also knocking off a 6 year car loan in 2 years really eats into saving money.

No. I don't. If I didn't think his way of doing things was beneficial I wouldn't have followed it. I just happened to tailor it to my specific situation. Just because I may not conform to his practice 100% doesn't mean I'm going to slander the whole process. Honestly, every time I hear someone bad mouth the guy it's like hearing fudds or "pro 2A" liberals go on about firearms. "I'm pro 2A but..." No, you're either all or nothing, and in this case if you're not fiscally solid a negative opinion on the subject means nothing.

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Anyone considering Dave Ramsey should google for opinions critical of him. He has good aspects and bad ones.

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No. I don't. If I didn't think his way of doing things was beneficial I wouldn't have followed it. I just happened to tailor it to my specific situation. Just because I may not conform to his practice 100% doesn't mean I'm going to slander the whole process. Honestly, every time I hear someone bad mouth the guy it's like hearing fudds or "pro 2A" liberals go on about firearms. "I'm pro 2A but..." No, you're either all or nothing, and in this case if you're not fiscally solid a negative opinion on the subject means nothing.

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So you agree that he has good points and bad points.

I have issues with his approach towards debt. But let's not derail. People should just do their research before drinking the coolaid.

Love his approach or hate it, he is successful because it is effective. I based my debt system mostly on what he teaches and tweaked it for what worked best for me. It got me out of debt and into a house of my own in a short period of time. You don't need to follow his program to a T, I didn't and I still made it work. I know others who have as well.

When we live in a world where 90% of us don't know our ass from a hole in the wall when it comes to finances or proper budgeting and more than half are living paycheck to paycheck I find it very hard to take anyone who slanders a working system seriously. When anyone bad mouthing him can show me they are debt free, successful in finance and is willing to help others become the same (regardless of whether or not they are selling that service) and have a better way to do so, then and only then would I give a single fuck about their opinion on the matter.

When I want to become something I emulate anyone who is what I want to become. I seek financial advice from wealthy people, I don't give a shit what poor people have to say about wealth, if they knew what they were talking about they would be wealthy themselves.

Lol. So you agree with me too, that he has his good points and his bad points.

No. I don't. If I didn't think his way of doing things was beneficial I wouldn't have followed it. I just happened to tailor it to my specific situation. Just because I may not conform to his practice 100% doesn't mean I'm going to slander the whole process. Honestly, every time I hear someone bad mouth the guy it's like hearing fudds or "pro 2A" liberals go on about firearms. "I'm pro 2A but..." No, you're either all or nothing, and in this case if you're not fiscally solid a negative opinion on the subject means nothing.

You're agreeing with me.  You don't follow him 100% and you tweaked it to work for you. Where do you get "slander" from what you quoted of me?

(edit: having a hard time with the quote limits. You get the idea.)

FUCKING YES! If it where easy then everyone would be doing it... want more money? work more hours....  you'll see.    goal setting for me has always been a strong motivator when it comes to saving money. choose a goal and work hard to make it happen... When i needed to start saving money coin/PM collecting really got me moving in the right direction.  just be relentless man , you can reach your goals. just comes down to how hard your willing to work. find out what motivates you and don't stop until you you get it ...

Yes!......Of course it's hard to try to save to save money these days.

i did.  when i was in my 20s, i made a solid living ($50K-$60K) working the bar.  somehow though, i was always living day-to-day, and came out with absolutely nothing to show for it other than stories.  i grew up poor, so consumption was a new and exciting thing for me--if i wanted something, i bought it because i could.  and because i was always dealing with cash, it tended to flow very quickly.  i lived a very full party lifestyle, and the amount of money i spend on good times still makes me wince.

Yeah no problem. No wife or kids, my only vice is guns, ammo, and training. Fuck I'm boring.

If I followed that advice, I would still be a wage earning electrician.

I did exactly what Dave said not to do and borrowed money to start an electrical contracting business.  That money was completely paid back with 3.5 years and today I am a business owner with employees.  

If I listened to Dave Ramsey I would still be saving the money needed to start the business.  I would have been many years behind which means hundreds of thousands would have been lost in the long run.

The people who say "debt is slavery" simply don't know how to leverage things properly.

Not everyone will travel the same road in life.



Some folks will find their road never travels to some states or certain elevations.



Many are ok with that.



Some will feel they missed out on something.



Run searches and do reading and find a used book store to buy some books and do some page turning.



I rarely feel like telling someone that person X has the perfect concept and they should follow that.



I do often tell folks to run searches and read about the big names who do have some good ideas that might ring true with some folks.



Dave ramsey has some concepts that might work for others.  It does not really make mathmatical sense to just pay the lowest credit card debt off and move on to the next highest.  You would pay off the one with the highest interest rate first if you are mathmatically based in your thinking.



But a lot of folks enjoy seeing something paid off and at zero balance.  They get a surge of energy from that.  And that surge of energy will move people on to the next one.  



Perhaps someone looks at 5k in credit card debt with high interest and feels they are barely making a dent after a few months.  Then they stop trying.  Not gonna get far that way.



There are a ton of sites out there and a ton of concepts.



Overall it is like your body weight.



Money in should be greater than money out.  If there are things that can be cut out without killing you, perhaps cutting them out for a bit is a good idea.



Weight is along the lines of calories in don't really need to be that much higher than calories out.

I do.

I find it very easy to blow money on small stuff, like drinks and snacks (which also helps explain why I'm fat lol) but doing the math that's a good amount that can be set aside or put towards debt. But 2 kids and a third on the way, it won't get much easier. I'm getting a raise here soon and busting ass working 50 hours a week and pushing for bonuses to help pay it down and off, and build up savings.

I meant his little stuff, you're absolutely right that his debt-phobic attitude can be bad in some cases.

I hear ya.  I wasn't disagreeing with you as much as I was using what you said as a jumping point for my rant.

I didn't use to, but it's very difficult now with house, family, rising costs all over the place and my wages aren't soaring above it comfortably. Now every savings attempt is almost instantly nullified by medical bills, roof leaks, car repairs, or some other unsatisfying shit.