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Posted: 9/27/2014 8:15:05 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boo fucking hoo. Now, let's see if this is just a joint ploy to make us all "believe" their really "encrypted" my first thought. methinks they'll get a jump in the number of kiddie porn busts, which I'm okay with. by now, if not before, all people should realize that there isn't really internet anonymity, least of all on an iPhone. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 8:19:12 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ding, ding, ding!! "I had to set up a password once, your honor, but I've been using my fingerprint since then. It seems the techs have reset my phone and my fingerprint no longer functions without the passcode which I cannot recall." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yep, but the government putting you in jail and saying "decrypt it or sit in jail" is exactly what compelling someone is. Except it isn't clear that they can do that, as evidenced by the 11th Circuit case I posted which says "the government can't do that." I say "isn't clear" because some other, lower courts have said (in other cases with potentially differing facts) that the government can do that. But as a general proposition, the law is unsettled, and the idea that you'll be held (literally) in contempt until you fork over the key is not a foregone conclusion. "Your Honor, my client can regretfully not recall the password to his smartphone" What happens after that? Ding, ding, ding!! "I had to set up a password once, your honor, but I've been using my fingerprint since then. It seems the techs have reset my phone and my fingerprint no longer functions without the passcode which I cannot recall." I am having memory problems since the police hit me in the head a few times during arrest. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 8:21:37 AM EDT
[#3]
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Well there must be some sort of backdoor, otherwise NSA would never allow it. That's for sure. Does anyone really think that NSA doesn't have a backdoor to all of this? I think this is just a bunch of dishonest whining to lead all of into a false sense that our information may be private and unreachable. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 8:25:28 AM EDT
[#4]
LOL.
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Posted: 9/27/2014 8:33:31 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's for sure. Does anyone really think that NSA doesn't have a backdoor to all of this? I think this is just a bunch of dishonest whining to lead all of into a false sense that our information may be private and unreachable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well there must be some sort of backdoor, otherwise NSA would never allow it. That's for sure. Does anyone really think that NSA doesn't have a backdoor to all of this? I think this is just a bunch of dishonest whining to lead all of into a false sense that our information may be private and unreachable. Where in the software release cycle for a new phone OS does the NSA get to approve or reject the design? |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 8:40:17 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yawn. This is good justification for an expansion of capability in technical branches. Now, they can easily justify far more advanced in-house capability that will enable more effective and timely searches that are less likely to be detected prior to execution by the susupect. In the end, this will change from serving a warrant to apple into walking downstairs with a warrant and having the tech guys exploit the device. All in all, not an issue. I'm glad you see the silver lining of empire building. 
Although in reality if properly designed there's little the boys in Langley could do to break it. It's just math. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 8:56:36 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How did they track them down before smart phones and tablets? Fuck em. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 9:03:48 AM EDT
[#8]
I forgot my password when you shot my dag.
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Posted: 9/27/2014 9:07:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where in the software release cycle for a new phone OS does the NSA get to approve or reject the design? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well there must be some sort of backdoor, otherwise NSA would never allow it. That's for sure. Does anyone really think that NSA doesn't have a backdoor to all of this? I think this is just a bunch of dishonest whining to lead all of into a false sense that our information may be private and unreachable. Where in the software release cycle for a new phone OS does the NSA get to approve or reject the design? They own Apple as part of a super-duper-secret umbrella corporation run by the NWO. Didn't you know that? |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 9:12:22 AM EDT
[#10]
We bitch about phone privacy and then say nothing about being tracked by cameras almost everywhere we go. I have to admit that while sitting a red light I have fantasies of shooting out every camera I see.
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Posted: 9/27/2014 9:15:45 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We bitch about phone privacy and then say nothing about being tracked by cameras almost everywhere we go. I have to admit that while sitting a red light I have fantasies of shooting out every camera I see. Probably because we have a reasonable expectation of privacy in our phone communications and data contents, whereas anybody can see us while we're out driving? It's not really a fair comparison. Although, I do see a problem with the massive, wholesale, systematic collection, storage, and analysis of the locations of EVERYONE (i.e., lots of people who are suspected of nothing at the time) via widespread, integrated systems of cameras and plate readers. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 9:25:03 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How ever did they solve crimes before cell phones? apparently they didnt. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 9:27:23 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
JBTs sure are whiney cunts. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 9:35:48 AM EDT
[#14]
sorry
but my spidey senses are telling me that these new encrypted systems already have a NSA backdoor built in |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 9:45:43 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They can get a warrant. F 'em. Won't do them any good. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 9:46:03 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well there must be some sort of backdoor, otherwise NSA would never allow it. NSA has no ability to "allow" or deny anything a company does. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 9:49:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. It's simply a public ploy to make people *think* that the FBI can't access them when they really want to... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Boo fucking hoo. Now, let's see if this is just a joint ploy to make us all "believe" their really "encrypted" This. It's simply a public ploy to make people *think* that the FBI can't access them when they really want to... If you honestly believe the FBI's level of technical advancement is better than that of a third world country, I've got some news for you... The FBI is the most backwards agency on the planet with respect to technology. Federal LE, in my experience, lags about two decades behind the rest of the developed world. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 9:56:49 AM EDT
[#18]
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I would bet ALL of them do, Apple , Blackberry, Galaxy etc.... The Black Phone is probably the only one that does not and is deliberaly made that way. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Blackberry has had full hardware encryption for YEARS now... But like always, when Apple finally does it, it's new, innovative, and different! Apple devices could be fully hardware encrypted, but apple used to maintain a backdoor. I would bet ALL of them do, Apple , Blackberry, Galaxy etc.... The Black Phone is probably the only one that does not and is deliberaly made that way. LOL the black phone most likely is more vulnerable than either a stock Nexus or an iphone. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 10:00:42 AM EDT
[#19]
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Yes... Trust that your electronic devices are secure. Enter your most sensitive data into them. The FBI is incapable of accessing them.  I hope people aren't stupid enough to believe this clown. Anything can be cracked with enough time.First, that statement isn't true. There are many types of encryption that actually cannot be "cracked with enough time". Second, the FBI really probably isn't capable of accessing anything that elcomsoft hasn't built a box for. Federal LE, especially the FBI, is about as incompetent as you can possibly get when it comes to technology. If there's not a box that does it for them, they can't even comprehend the concepts required to analyze it. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 10:06:02 AM EDT
[#20]
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Okay. Anyway, they can legally compel you to decrypt. That's where this started, and I bet Lavabit would agree with me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not sure what your point is - a NSL has the same inherent problem as a subpoena. It basically is a subpoena, just a secret one. The FBI issued one to Lavabit, to force them to disclose encryption keys. Which is exactly what Apple is now "fixing" - Apple will no longer have them and, thus, their full and truthful response to such a subpoena or NSL will be "we have nothing responsive to your request." Okay. Anyway, they can legally compel you to decrypt. That's where this started, and I bet Lavabit would agree with me. What do you not understand. Apple and Google have made the ability to compel them to decrypt useless. if the owner of the phone does not give up the password then even Apple and Google can't get in. No matter what super secret letter they have. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 10:56:43 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First, that statement isn't true. There are many types of encryption that actually cannot be "cracked with enough time". Second, the FBI really probably isn't capable of accessing anything that elcomsoft hasn't built a box for. Federal LE, especially the FBI, is about as incompetent as you can possibly get when it comes to technology. If there's not a box that does it for them, they can't even comprehend the concepts required to analyze it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yes... Trust that your electronic devices are secure. Enter your most sensitive data into them. The FBI is incapable of accessing them. I hope people aren't stupid enough to believe this clown. Anything can be cracked with enough time.First, that statement isn't true. There are many types of encryption that actually cannot be "cracked with enough time". Second, the FBI really probably isn't capable of accessing anything that elcomsoft hasn't built a box for. Federal LE, especially the FBI, is about as incompetent as you can possibly get when it comes to technology. If there's not a box that does it for them, they can't even comprehend the concepts required to analyze it. They can always send it to someone who can (private sector and other Gov agencies) |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 5:59:11 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never get any of the cool stuff. 
I'm glad you see the silver lining of empire building.
Although in reality if properly designed there's little the boys in Langley could do to break it. It's just math. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does anyone really give a fuck what the FBI is happy about? Quite a few members here will be very upset. They like their chains and want heavier ones. Yes, but I still haven't received my junior ranger special agent web cam to install in my house to prove I am a good citizen. As we all know, we shouldn't have any problem if we have nothing to hide. I never get any of the cool stuff.
Quoted:
Yawn. This is good justification for an expansion of capability in technical branches. Now, they can easily justify far more advanced in-house capability that will enable more effective and timely searches that are less likely to be detected prior to execution by the susupect. In the end, this will change from serving a warrant to apple into walking downstairs with a warrant and having the tech guys exploit the device. All in all, not an issue. I'm glad you see the silver lining of empire building.
Although in reality if properly designed there's little the boys in Langley could do to break it. It's just math. You assume FedDC's amoral twins in DHS haven't hacked Apple and stolen the base code already. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 6:10:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Nothing in this will prevent people from hacking into female celebs phones to get their nekid selfies though, right?
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Posted: 9/27/2014 6:34:16 PM EDT
[#24]
The real point to all of this is that the FBI wants to be able to go to one company with one warrant (or whatever) and go through the data of millions of people at one fell swoop.
If they had to do this one-at-a-time with a separate search for each individual with today's system, they wouldn't be acting so butthurt. Essentially Apple took themselves out of the loop thereby removed the ability for the FBI to do sweeping searches. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 6:48:55 PM EDT
[#25]
When you take something away from a child that has proved too immature to handle it properly they piss up a storm too. Just the same kind of storm very often, lots of "sky is falling" bullshit.
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Posted: 9/27/2014 6:53:13 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You assume FedDC's amoral twins in DHS haven't hacked Apple and stolen the base code already. The point of encryption without pointless backdoors is that having the "base code" public improves security, not decreases it. All the feds in the world can't magic away properly executed math. |
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Posted: 9/27/2014 6:54:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Yeah, I mean it's all about saving kids man. The FBI is just really, really worried about the children. Come on people.
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Posted: 9/27/2014 7:15:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Grumpycatgood.jpeg
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Posted: 9/27/2014 11:31:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They can always send it to someone who can (private sector and other Gov agencies) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes... Trust that your electronic devices are secure. Enter your most sensitive data into them. The FBI is incapable of accessing them. I hope people aren't stupid enough to believe this clown. Anything can be cracked with enough time.First, that statement isn't true. There are many types of encryption that actually cannot be "cracked with enough time". Second, the FBI really probably isn't capable of accessing anything that elcomsoft hasn't built a box for. Federal LE, especially the FBI, is about as incompetent as you can possibly get when it comes to technology. If there's not a box that does it for them, they can't even comprehend the concepts required to analyze it. They can always send it to someone who can (private sector and other Gov agencies) That still does not fix the physics issue. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 9:18:22 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That still does not fix the physics issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes... Trust that your electronic devices are secure. Enter your most sensitive data into them. The FBI is incapable of accessing them. I hope people aren't stupid enough to believe this clown. Anything can be cracked with enough time.First, that statement isn't true. There are many types of encryption that actually cannot be "cracked with enough time". Second, the FBI really probably isn't capable of accessing anything that elcomsoft hasn't built a box for. Federal LE, especially the FBI, is about as incompetent as you can possibly get when it comes to technology. If there's not a box that does it for them, they can't even comprehend the concepts required to analyze it. They can always send it to someone who can (private sector and other Gov agencies) That still does not fix the physics issue. Yes, it does. You don't attack the physics. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 9:37:58 AM EDT
[#31]
I'm with you, all of the tech companies have been in bed with the NSA for years, all of a sudden they turn on them?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boo fucking hoo. Now, let's see if this is just a joint ploy to make us all "believe" their really "encrypted" |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 9:38:59 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: JBTs sure are whiney cunts. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 10:02:04 AM EDT
[#33]
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Yes, it does. You don't attack the physics. Go ahead and explain to us technical folk just what the FBI will attack to access an encrypted file system. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 10:02:31 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm with you, all of the tech companies have been in bed with the NSA for years, all of a sudden they turn on them?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm with you, all of the tech companies have been in bed with the NSA for years, all of a sudden they turn on them?
Quoted:
Boo fucking hoo. Now, let's see if this is just a joint ploy to make us all "believe" their really "encrypted" It's " possible" since it is well known that there has been a huge loss of business for US tech companies once it was known they had been in bed with the NSA, etc. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 12:10:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go ahead and explain to us technical folk just what the FBI will attack to access an encrypted file system. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes, it does. You don't attack the physics. Go ahead and explain to us technical folk just what the FBI will attack to access an encrypted file system. How do you defeat a lock? Use the key. There is always a key. You just have to know where and who. You act like this is a new issue. Surely you know that the FBI is the Agency doing the bulk of The CI work in the US. If they can do that against peer nation espionage agencies, your IPhone isn't a problem. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 12:19:17 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do you defeat a lock? Use the key. There is always a key. You just have to know where and who. You act like this is a new issue. Surely you know that the FBI is the Agency doing the bulk of The CI work in the US. If they can do that against peer nation espionage agencies, your IPhone isn't a problem. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes, it does. You don't attack the physics. Go ahead and explain to us technical folk just what the FBI will attack to access an encrypted file system. How do you defeat a lock? Use the key. There is always a key. You just have to know where and who. You act like this is a new issue. Surely you know that the FBI is the Agency doing the bulk of The CI work in the US. If they can do that against peer nation espionage agencies, your IPhone isn't a problem. You seem to be missing the point of this whole article. Apple has removed their key leaving the only one left the user's. If the user has fifth amendment protection from decrypting their information then what? |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 12:24:01 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
protecting your privacy puts you above the law. Niiiiiiiice! Worth quoting!!! |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 12:29:54 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The NSA can do that anyway, assuming that they're all intercepted in transit and stored away in some massive data farm. Which is probably the case in one form or another. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oh, so because I don't want the NSA reading my texts, I am operating above the law? Go fuck yourself agent man! The NSA can do that anyway, assuming that they're all intercepted in transit and stored away in some massive data farm. Which is probably the case in one form or another. Time to go back to US mail or passenger pigeon. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 12:33:45 PM EDT
[#39]
To live Above The Law, you must be honest.....Bob Dylan
Can government lie to you?....Sure. Can you lie to government.....No |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 12:46:03 PM EDT
[#40]
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Time to go back to US mail or passenger pigeon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oh, so because I don't want the NSA reading my texts, I am operating above the law? Go fuck yourself agent man! The NSA can do that anyway, assuming that they're all intercepted in transit and stored away in some massive data farm. Which is probably the case in one form or another. Time to go back to US mail or passenger pigeon. Or use Textsecure |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 4:44:49 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do you defeat a lock? Use the key. There is always a key. You just have to know where and who. You act like this is a new issue. Surely you know that the FBI is the Agency doing the bulk of The CI work in the US. If they can do that against peer nation espionage agencies, your IPhone isn't a problem. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes, it does. You don't attack the physics. Go ahead and explain to us technical folk just what the FBI will attack to access an encrypted file system. How do you defeat a lock? Use the key. There is always a key. You just have to know where and who. You act like this is a new issue. Surely you know that the FBI is the Agency doing the bulk of The CI work in the US. If they can do that against peer nation espionage agencies, your IPhone isn't a problem. 
There isn't always a key, certainly not one available to you. If the key exists solely in the head of your target, how are you going to get it? And the FBI doesn't know jack shit when it comes to technology. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 6:09:02 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There isn't always a key, certainly not one available to you. If the key exists solely in the head of your target, how are you going to get it? And the FBI doesn't know jack shit when it comes to technology. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes, it does. You don't attack the physics. Go ahead and explain to us technical folk just what the FBI will attack to access an encrypted file system. How do you defeat a lock? Use the key. There is always a key. You just have to know where and who. You act like this is a new issue. Surely you know that the FBI is the Agency doing the bulk of The CI work in the US. If they can do that against peer nation espionage agencies, your IPhone isn't a problem.
There isn't always a key, certainly not one available to you. If the key exists solely in the head of your target, how are you going to get it? And the FBI doesn't know jack shit when it comes to technology. You must be right. The agency that rolls up soviet spies, conducts hugely complex counter intelligence operations involving nation state level encryption, and operates a global network of secure communications...that same agency is thwarted by your IPhone. I bet you actually believe that. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 6:10:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good. Fuck them. Carry on. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 6:22:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You must be right. The agency that rolls up soviet spies, conducts hugely complex counter intelligence operations involving nation state level encryption, and operates a global network of secure communications...that same agency is thwarted by your IPhone. I bet you actually believe that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes, it does. You don't attack the physics. Go ahead and explain to us technical folk just what the FBI will attack to access an encrypted file system. How do you defeat a lock? Use the key. There is always a key. You just have to know where and who. You act like this is a new issue. Surely you know that the FBI is the Agency doing the bulk of The CI work in the US. If they can do that against peer nation espionage agencies, your IPhone isn't a problem.
There isn't always a key, certainly not one available to you. If the key exists solely in the head of your target, how are you going to get it? And the FBI doesn't know jack shit when it comes to technology. You must be right. The agency that rolls up soviet spies, conducts hugely complex counter intelligence operations involving nation state level encryption, and operates a global network of secure communications...that same agency is thwarted by your IPhone. I bet you actually believe that. So, remind me, when was the last time the FBI rolled-up a Soviet spy? |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 6:24:22 PM EDT
[#45]
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At this point on the tyranny curve, I am of the opinion if it makes the FBI unhappy, I am good with that. I have friends who agree with this statement. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 6:47:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You must be right. The agency that rolls up soviet spies, conducts hugely complex counter intelligence operations involving nation state level encryption, and operates a global network of secure communications...that same agency is thwarted by your IPhone. I bet you actually believe that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes, it does. You don't attack the physics. Go ahead and explain to us technical folk just what the FBI will attack to access an encrypted file system. How do you defeat a lock? Use the key. There is always a key. You just have to know where and who. You act like this is a new issue. Surely you know that the FBI is the Agency doing the bulk of The CI work in the US. If they can do that against peer nation espionage agencies, your IPhone isn't a problem.
There isn't always a key, certainly not one available to you. If the key exists solely in the head of your target, how are you going to get it? And the FBI doesn't know jack shit when it comes to technology. You must be right. The agency that rolls up soviet spies, conducts hugely complex counter intelligence operations involving nation state level encryption, and operates a global network of secure communications...that same agency is thwarted by your IPhone. I bet you actually believe that. I bet you actually believe the FBI has done any of that bullshit you just posted. Just a couple of years ago the FBI did not even have a network of any kind, let alone a global one. Perhaps they've progressed since then, but I doubt they've progressed much. You may be confusing them with the NSA, who actually does do the things you listed above (w/ the exception of rolling up soviet spies, that's not really in their lane, but the FBI doesn't do that very much either -- as I recall their CI program was thoroughly penetrated by a soviet spy up to a couple of years ago). |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:33:53 PM EDT
[#47]
Some more quotes
“This is a very bad idea,” said Cathy Lanier, chief of the Washington Metropolitan Police Department, in an interview. Smartphone communication is “going to be the preferred method of the pedophile and the criminal. We are going to lose a lot of investigative opportunities.”
“It’s a significant issue for law enforcement,” Soiles, a deputy chief of operations at the Drug Enforcement Administration, said. “As long as we are doing it with court orders, there shouldn’t be any reason to keep us from it. We want to attack command-and-control structures of drug organizations, and to do that we have to be able to exploit their communication devices.”
“They have created a system that is a free-for-all for criminals,” said Weissmann, a law professor at New York University. “It’s the wrong balancing act. Having court-ordered access to telephones is essential to thwart criminal acts and terrorist acts.”
LINKS |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 10:59:19 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The point of encryption without pointless backdoors is that having the "base code" public improves security, not decreases it. All the feds in the world can't magic away properly executed math. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You assume FedDC's amoral twins in DHS haven't hacked Apple and stolen the base code already. The point of encryption without pointless backdoors is that having the "base code" public improves security, not decreases it. All the feds in the world can't magic away properly executed math. Yep. Right now there is a LOT of interest in the geek community in locking things down, new tools are being written to examine code bases for vulnerabilities and exploits, with the express intention of making sure the government or other hostile actors don't have back doors into systems. Of course, work requires that my work laptop be encrypted, my phone can be encrypted right now, it's just the next release of Android, out later this year, turns encryption ON by default. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 3:33:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Eric Holder weighs in:
"It is fully possible to permit law enforcement to do its job while still adequately protecting personal privacy,” Holder said during a Tuesday speech before the Global Alliance Against Child Sexual Abuse Online conference. “When a child is in danger, law enforcement needs to be able to take every legally available step to quickly find and protect the child and to stop those that abuse children. It is worrisome to see companies thwarting our ability to do so."
"Recent technological advances have the potential to greatly embolden online criminals, providing new methods for abusers to avoid detection. In some cases, perpetrators are using cloud storage to cheaply and easily store tens of thousands of images and videos outside of any home or business—and to access those files from anywhere in the world. Many take advantage of encryption and anonymizing technology to conceal contraband materials and disguise their locations." LINK |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 3:37:36 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol Yeah. Fuck that. If the rule of law exercised some limiting restraint there wouldn't be demand for this |
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