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Posted: 9/29/2014 3:38:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yeah because thats a high % of police? BS And what is your so called high paying profession? Computer consulting. I have no idea how high or low the % is. It seems a common theme that IA guys can never do patrol work again, and I've heard stories like the dead rat on the windshield, It happens. It seems a common theme that some people have child porn on their computers, and I 've heard stories about it too. It happens. You're absolutely right, it does: Ex-Tremonton officer pleads guilty to stalking teen A former veteran officer with the Tremonton Police Department, who at one time investigated sex abuse cases, pleaded guilty this week to spying on a teenage girl and gathering nude photos of her. You come to every thread like this with a cop hating agenda so it's clear to everyone what you want to do. Now it's only a matter of time until large hammer appears over your screen name. And not for disliking law enforcement, it's bashing every one with a badge and derailing threads with this BS |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 3:40:37 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did I say anyone said it was normal ? I was answering the question of what would other LE do in the same situation. Don't you have some wealthy computers to consult? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This, everything about this incident stinks and it is not the norm. Even still, GD will claim it is and reference it for yrs to come. I don't think anyone is saying this is the norm. We're having a discussion about it precisely because it's such a FUBAR situation. But yes, it'll probably be brought up like the blue Tacoma or flash-banged toddler for quite some time. Did I say anyone said it was normal ? I was answering the question of what would other LE do in the same situation. Don't you have some wealthy computers to consult? |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 3:48:37 PM EDT
[#3]
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GD is the Ferguson of the internet. I'm surprised that the ARF store hasn't been looted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This, everything about this incident stinks and it is not the norm. Even still, GD will claim it is and reference it for yrs to come. GD is the Ferguson of the internet. I'm surprised that the ARF store hasn't been looted. 
Perfect |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 3:50:54 PM EDT
[#4]
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No he's not done bashing the very people he'd be screaming for help to via 911 if he heard glass breaking in the middle of the night. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This, everything about this incident stinks and it is not the norm. Even still, GD will claim it is and reference it for yrs to come. I don't think anyone is saying this is the norm. We're having a discussion about it precisely because it's such a FUBAR situation. But yes, it'll probably be brought up like the blue Tacoma or flash-banged toddler for quite some time. Did I say anyone said it was normal ? I was answering the question of what would other LE do in the same situation. Don't you have some wealthy computers to consult? Lol most likely. You'd think with such a high paying job he'd be to busy for all his petty bashing. I guess when you reach his status you have all the time and experience you need to use google. It also seems that he watches a lot of TV. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 4:09:04 PM EDT
[#5]
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I think we have finally hit full retard in this thread. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile We have Not_Yet_Begun2ReachFullRetard. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 4:42:49 PM EDT
[#6]
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Did I say anyone said it was normal ? I was answering the question of what would other LE do in the same situation. Don't you have some wealthy computers to consult? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This, everything about this incident stinks and it is not the norm. Even still, GD will claim it is and reference it for yrs to come. I don't think anyone is saying this is the norm. We're having a discussion about it precisely because it's such a FUBAR situation. But yes, it'll probably be brought up like the blue Tacoma or flash-banged toddler for quite some time. Did I say anyone said it was normal ? I was answering the question of what would other LE do in the same situation. Don't you have some wealthy computers to consult? You're kidding, right? |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 4:47:41 PM EDT
[#7]
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Gee I wonder how many pervs we could find in computer consulting ? You come to every thread like this with a cop hating agenda so it's clear to everyone what you want to do. Now it's only a matter of time until large hammer appears over your screen name. And not for disliking law enforcement, it's bashing every one with a badge and derailing threads with this BS 1) I'm not the one that brought up child porn. 2) I don't bash "every one with a badge". I've even said in the past that I think ARFcops are some of the good guys in law enforcement. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 4:52:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Jeeminy, where is that 'unsubscribe' button ...
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Posted: 9/29/2014 5:01:02 PM EDT
[#9]
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Lol most likely. You'd think with such a high paying job he'd be to busy for all his petty bashing. I guess when you reach his status you have all the time and experience you need to use google. It also seems that he watches a lot of TV. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Did I say anyone said it was normal ? I was answering the question of what would other LE do in the same situation. Don't you have some wealthy computers to consult? Lol most likely. You'd think with such a high paying job he'd be to busy for all his petty bashing. I guess when you reach his status you have all the time and experience you need to use google. It also seems that he watches a lot of TV. I broke my arm in a motorcycle accident earlier this month, so yeah, I've had a bit of free time while I've been recovering. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 5:11:58 PM EDT
[#10]
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You're kidding, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This, everything about this incident stinks and it is not the norm. Even still, GD will claim it is and reference it for yrs to come. I don't think anyone is saying this is the norm. We're having a discussion about it precisely because it's such a FUBAR situation. But yes, it'll probably be brought up like the blue Tacoma or flash-banged toddler for quite some time. Did I say anyone said it was normal ? I was answering the question of what would other LE do in the same situation. Don't you have some wealthy computers to consult? You're kidding, right? Hmmmm let's see look up the word have, then look up the word will. Hint its not the letter a lawyer reads after someone dies. GD will claim it, would mean in the future GD will use it as reference. They have claimed it ... ahhh nevermind. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 5:13:01 PM EDT
[#11]
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Jeeminy, where is that 'unsubscribe' button ... WTF man, last time I order from you. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 5:46:01 PM EDT
[#12]
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I broke my arm in a motorcycle accident earlier this month, so yeah, I've had a bit of free time while I've been recovering. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Did I say anyone said it was normal ? I was answering the question of what would other LE do in the same situation. Don't you have some wealthy computers to consult? Lol most likely. You'd think with such a high paying job he'd be to busy for all his petty bashing. I guess when you reach his status you have all the time and experience you need to use google. It also seems that he watches a lot of TV. I broke my arm in a motorcycle accident earlier this month, so yeah, I've had a bit of free time while I've been recovering. Why yes you have, glad it was only the arm, from now on try and keep the rubber side down |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 6:21:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Jeeminy, where is that 'unsubscribe' button ... LOL...and you're just being objective in GD. Try wearing a badge.  |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 8:16:13 PM EDT
[#14]
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GD is the Ferguson of the internet. I'm surprised that the ARF store hasn't been looted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This, everything about this incident stinks and it is not the norm. Even still, GD will claim it is and reference it for yrs to come. GD is the Ferguson of the internet. I'm surprised that the ARF store hasn't been looted. 
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Posted: 9/29/2014 9:19:56 PM EDT
[#15]
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Jeeminy, where is that 'unsubscribe' button ... 
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Posted: 9/29/2014 9:21:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GD is the Ferguson of the internet. I'm surprised that the ARF store hasn't been looted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This, everything about this incident stinks and it is not the norm. Even still, GD will claim it is and reference it for yrs to come. GD is the Ferguson of the internet. I'm surprised that the ARF store hasn't been looted.
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Posted: 9/29/2014 9:26:04 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He fucked up. Would not surprise me to see him indicted. He absolutely has to, or else law enforcement in this country takes the biggest hit its ever got. There are times where officers calls me and say "Sarge, I know this sounds bad, but this is what happened." There's no way he makes it through on this one. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 9:58:50 PM EDT
[#18]
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He absolutely has to, or else law enforcement in this country takes the biggest hit its ever got. There are times where officers calls me and say "Sarge, I know this sounds bad, but this is what happened." There's no way he makes it through on this one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He fucked up. Would not surprise me to see him indicted. He absolutely has to, or else law enforcement in this country takes the biggest hit its ever got. There are times where officers calls me and say "Sarge, I know this sounds bad, but this is what happened." There's no way he makes it through on this one. Yeah, I doubt that. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 10:52:46 PM EDT
[#19]
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LOL...and you're just being objective in GD. Try wearing a badge.
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Jeeminy, where is that 'unsubscribe' button ... LOL...and you're just being objective in GD. Try wearing a badge.
I know, shoot me, you'd think I'd learn, wait ... 
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:02:36 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He absolutely has to, or else law enforcement in this country takes the biggest hit its ever got. There are times where officers calls me and say "Sarge, I know this sounds bad, but this is what happened." There's no way he makes it through on this one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He fucked up. Would not surprise me to see him indicted. He absolutely has to, or else law enforcement in this country takes the biggest hit its ever got. There are times where officers calls me and say "Sarge, I know this sounds bad, but this is what happened." There's no way he makes it through on this one. Well he did get arrested so one day there will be trial or a deal. I find it interesting we actually have a shoot like this and it's basically quite on the news media front. I think he might get away with the first shot but I don't think the follow up ones will fly. Be interesting to know which shot actually struck him. If he got hit the first time good possibility a jury will find not guilty. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:04:10 AM EDT
[#21]
I wonder where the other rounds went? I'm surprised no one else got hit.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:26:05 AM EDT
[#22]
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WTF man, last time I order from you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Jeeminy, where is that 'unsubscribe' button ... WTF man, last time I order from you. I think he is thinking about punching out since it's getting derailed. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 8:13:53 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Yeah because thats a high % of police? BS And what is your so called high paying profession? Computer consulting. I have no idea how high or low the % is. It seems a common theme that IA guys can never do patrol work again, and I've heard stories like the dead rat on the windshield, It happens. It seems a common theme that some people have child porn on their computers, and I 've heard stories about it too. It happens. You're absolutely right, it does: Ex-Tremonton officer pleads guilty to stalking teen A former veteran officer with the Tremonton Police Department, who at one time investigated sex abuse cases, pleaded guilty this week to spying on a teenage girl and gathering nude photos of her. Tremonton... 
I worked Thiokol years ago. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 9:54:26 AM EDT
[#24]
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Well he did get arrested so one day there will be trial or a deal. I find it interesting we actually have a shoot like this and it's basically quite on the news media front. I think he might get away with the first shot but I don't think the follow up ones will fly. Be interesting to know which shot actually struck him. If he got hit the first time good possibility a jury will find not guilty. Out of curiosity, why does it matter which shot resulted in the hit? He certainly intended for all 4 rounds to hit the guy. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:26:04 AM EDT
[#25]
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Out of curiosity, why does it matter which shot resulted in the hit? He certainly intended for all 4 rounds to hit the guy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well he did get arrested so one day there will be trial or a deal. I find it interesting we actually have a shoot like this and it's basically quite on the news media front. I think he might get away with the first shot but I don't think the follow up ones will fly. Be interesting to know which shot actually struck him. If he got hit the first time good possibility a jury will find not guilty. Out of curiosity, why does it matter which shot resulted in the hit? He certainly intended for all 4 rounds to hit the guy. This will be an interesting part of any trial or defense. There could be an argument based on OODA loops that the shots were being made while in the "act" loop taking his primary focus and giving a lower priority to the "observation" loop. Same as some people are shot while facing their opponent and continue to be shot while falling or turning away. How long does it take to process information while doing a task under stress. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:39:18 AM EDT
[#26]
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This will be an interesting part of any trial or defense. There could be an argument based on OODA loops that the shots were being made while in the "act" loop taking his primary focus and giving a lower priority to the "observation" loop. Same as some people are shot while facing their opponent and continue to be shot while falling or turning away. How long does it take to process information while doing a task under stress. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well he did get arrested so one day there will be trial or a deal. I find it interesting we actually have a shoot like this and it's basically quite on the news media front. I think he might get away with the first shot but I don't think the follow up ones will fly. Be interesting to know which shot actually struck him. If he got hit the first time good possibility a jury will find not guilty. Out of curiosity, why does it matter which shot resulted in the hit? He certainly intended for all 4 rounds to hit the guy. This will be an interesting part of any trial or defense. There could be an argument based on OODA loops that the shots were being made while in the "act" loop taking his primary focus and giving a lower priority to the "observation" loop. Same as some people are shot while facing their opponent and continue to be shot while falling or turning away. How long does it take to process information while doing a task under stress. That'll be a tough sell if the jury sees the video. I understand the argument and think there's some validity to it, but I just don't see a jury letting him off if they see that video where the guy has his hands up for the last shot. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:56:12 AM EDT
[#27]
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That'll be a tough sell if the jury sees the video. I understand the argument and think there's some validity to it, but I just don't see a jury letting him off if they see that video where the guy has his hands up for the last shot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well he did get arrested so one day there will be trial or a deal. I find it interesting we actually have a shoot like this and it's basically quite on the news media front. I think he might get away with the first shot but I don't think the follow up ones will fly. Be interesting to know which shot actually struck him. If he got hit the first time good possibility a jury will find not guilty. Out of curiosity, why does it matter which shot resulted in the hit? He certainly intended for all 4 rounds to hit the guy. This will be an interesting part of any trial or defense. There could be an argument based on OODA loops that the shots were being made while in the "act" loop taking his primary focus and giving a lower priority to the "observation" loop. Same as some people are shot while facing their opponent and continue to be shot while falling or turning away. How long does it take to process information while doing a task under stress. That'll be a tough sell if the jury sees the video. I understand the argument and think there's some validity to it, but I just don't see a jury letting him off if they see that video where the guy has his hands up for the last shot. I agree, but will also say that in training with FATS and newer simulators, that when placed under stress and an officer makes an error and engages a "no shoot" target under stress, i have seen multiple shots made after the officer engaged the target and it's status as a "non threat" was revealed. In some ways it almost reminds me like running at full speed and trying to quickly come to a complete stop, there will always be several steps before you see someone come to a complete stop. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:02:30 PM EDT
[#28]
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That'll be a tough sell if the jury sees the video. I understand the argument and think there's some validity to it, but I just don't see a jury letting him off if they see that video where the guy has his hands up for the last shot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well he did get arrested so one day there will be trial or a deal. I find it interesting we actually have a shoot like this and it's basically quite on the news media front. I think he might get away with the first shot but I don't think the follow up ones will fly. Be interesting to know which shot actually struck him. If he got hit the first time good possibility a jury will find not guilty. Out of curiosity, why does it matter which shot resulted in the hit? He certainly intended for all 4 rounds to hit the guy. This will be an interesting part of any trial or defense. There could be an argument based on OODA loops that the shots were being made while in the "act" loop taking his primary focus and giving a lower priority to the "observation" loop. Same as some people are shot while facing their opponent and continue to be shot while falling or turning away. How long does it take to process information while doing a task under stress. That'll be a tough sell if the jury sees the video. I understand the argument and think there's some validity to it, but I just don't see a jury letting him off if they see that video where the guy has his hands up for the last shot. I don't know, I'd say that 4th shot was already being processed by the former officer and he had already begun the mental process to continue firing before he recognized that the guy's hands were up in the air. The time inbetween the 3rd and 4th shot is very quick, and as most LEOs on here say "action is quicker than reaction". The guy putting his hands up in the air was the action, and the former LEO ceasing fire was the reaction; albeit delayed. We can watch the video over and over, but in real-time I don't find the 4th shot (all by itself) by the former LEO as "criminal". I find the way the stop was conducted quite unprofessional though. I find opening fire in the first place as BS. But I'm not LEO, wasn't trained as one... |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:20:17 PM EDT
[#29]
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Out of curiosity, why does it matter which shot resulted in the hit? He certainly intended for all 4 rounds to hit the guy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well he did get arrested so one day there will be trial or a deal. I find it interesting we actually have a shoot like this and it's basically quite on the news media front. I think he might get away with the first shot but I don't think the follow up ones will fly. Be interesting to know which shot actually struck him. If he got hit the first time good possibility a jury will find not guilty. Out of curiosity, why does it matter which shot resulted in the hit? He certainly intended for all 4 rounds to hit the guy. Only hits count in an assault charge. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:23:12 PM EDT
[#30]
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That'll be a tough sell if the jury sees the video. I understand the argument and think there's some validity to it, but I just don't see a jury letting him off if they see that video where the guy has his hands up for the last shot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well he did get arrested so one day there will be trial or a deal. I find it interesting we actually have a shoot like this and it's basically quite on the news media front. I think he might get away with the first shot but I don't think the follow up ones will fly. Be interesting to know which shot actually struck him. If he got hit the first time good possibility a jury will find not guilty. Out of curiosity, why does it matter which shot resulted in the hit? He certainly intended for all 4 rounds to hit the guy. This will be an interesting part of any trial or defense. There could be an argument based on OODA loops that the shots were being made while in the "act" loop taking his primary focus and giving a lower priority to the "observation" loop. Same as some people are shot while facing their opponent and continue to be shot while falling or turning away. How long does it take to process information while doing a task under stress. That'll be a tough sell if the jury sees the video. I understand the argument and think there's some validity to it, but I just don't see a jury letting him off if they see that video where the guy has his hands up for the last shot. Doesn't work for the average GD cop hater. Get some experts on the stand to cover what happens in the real world. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:48:32 PM EDT
[#31]
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I don't know, I'd say that 4th shot was already being processed by the former officer and he had already begun the mental process to continue firing before he recognized that the guy's hands were up in the air. The time inbetween the 3rd and 4th shot is very quick, and as most LEOs on here say "action is quicker than reaction". The guy putting his hands up in the air was the action, and the former LEO ceasing fire was the reaction; albeit delayed. We can watch the video over and over, but in real-time I don't find the 4th shot (all by itself) by the former LEO as "criminal". I find the way the stop was conducted quite unprofessional though. I find opening fire in the first place as BS. But I'm not LEO, wasn't trained as one... You're right. The real problem isn't that he didn't stop shooting fast enough, it's that he ever started shooting in the first place (at an eagerly-compliant non-threat). |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 12:59:42 PM EDT
[#32]
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Doesn't work for the average GD cop hater. Get some experts on the stand to cover what happens in the real world. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That'll be a tough sell if the jury sees the video. I understand the argument and think there's some validity to it, but I just don't see a jury letting him off if they see that video where the guy has his hands up for the last shot. Doesn't work for the average GD cop hater. Get some experts on the stand to cover what happens in the real world. It's actually pretty solid science. I posted a link to the Tempe Study back on page 14. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1669544_SC_State_Trooper_Shoots_Unarmed_Man___Officer_Fired_from_Job.html&page=14#i49552928 |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:31:54 PM EDT
[#33]
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Doesn't work for the average GD cop hater. Get some experts on the stand to cover what happens in the real world. My wife, a well known cop hater  , watched that video when it was on the NEWS. She watched it with an open mouth and her hand over her mouth and when it was over, looked at me and said "Is that real?"
Go to a local news Facebook page where it was posted and see what the prospective jurors think. Every single juror is going to have the reaction my wife had and they are going to think, "I have been stopped before. That could happen to me. I want guys like him gone". Like I said before, no jury is going to care if it takes 1.5 seconds to stop shooting at a bad guy. Hell most of them around here aren't going to care if it takes 5 seconds. Start shooting at law abiding citizens with their hands up, the time jurors are going to give to stop shooting is going to drop to somewhere around .000 seconds. Fail to give the law abiding citizen you just shot aid and you are screwed. I don't care what "expert" testifies to what. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:54:06 PM EDT
[#34]
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My wife, a well known cop hater , watched that video when it was on the NEWS. She watched it with an open mouth and her hand over her mouth and when it was over, looked at me and said "Is that real?"
Go to a local news Facebook page where it was posted and see what the prospective jurors think. Every single juror is going to have the reaction my wife had and they are going to think, "I have been stopped before. That could happen to me. I want guys like him gone". Like I said before, no jury is going to care if it takes 1.5 seconds to stop shooting at a bad guy. Hell most of them around here aren't going to care if it takes 5 seconds. Start shooting at law abiding citizens with their hands up, the time jurors are going to give to stop shooting is going to drop to somewhere around .000 seconds. Fail to give the law abiding citizen you just shot aid and you are screwed. I don't care what "expert" testifies to what. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Doesn't work for the average GD cop hater. Get some experts on the stand to cover what happens in the real world. My wife, a well known cop hater , watched that video when it was on the NEWS. She watched it with an open mouth and her hand over her mouth and when it was over, looked at me and said "Is that real?"
Go to a local news Facebook page where it was posted and see what the prospective jurors think. Every single juror is going to have the reaction my wife had and they are going to think, "I have been stopped before. That could happen to me. I want guys like him gone". Like I said before, no jury is going to care if it takes 1.5 seconds to stop shooting at a bad guy. Hell most of them around here aren't going to care if it takes 5 seconds. Start shooting at law abiding citizens with their hands up, the time jurors are going to give to stop shooting is going to drop to somewhere around .000 seconds. Fail to give the law abiding citizen you just shot aid and you are screwed. I don't care what "expert" testifies to what. Not a bad assessment of the situation |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:59:23 PM EDT
[#35]
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My wife, a well known cop hater , watched that video when it was on the NEWS. She watched it with an open mouth and her hand over her mouth and when it was over, looked at me and said "Is that real?"
Go to a local news Facebook page where it was posted and see what the prospective jurors think. Every single juror is going to have the reaction my wife had and they are going to think, "I have been stopped before. That could happen to me. I want guys like him gone". Like I said before, no jury is going to care if it takes 1.5 seconds to stop shooting at a bad guy. Hell most of them around here aren't going to care if it takes 5 seconds. Start shooting at law abiding citizens with their hands up, the time jurors are going to give to stop shooting is going to drop to somewhere around .000 seconds. Fail to give the law abiding citizen you just shot aid and you are screwed. I don't care what "expert" testifies to what. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Doesn't work for the average GD cop hater. Get some experts on the stand to cover what happens in the real world. My wife, a well known cop hater , watched that video when it was on the NEWS. She watched it with an open mouth and her hand over her mouth and when it was over, looked at me and said "Is that real?"
Go to a local news Facebook page where it was posted and see what the prospective jurors think. Every single juror is going to have the reaction my wife had and they are going to think, "I have been stopped before. That could happen to me. I want guys like him gone". Like I said before, no jury is going to care if it takes 1.5 seconds to stop shooting at a bad guy. Hell most of them around here aren't going to care if it takes 5 seconds. Start shooting at law abiding citizens with their hands up, the time jurors are going to give to stop shooting is going to drop to somewhere around .000 seconds. Fail to give the law abiding citizen you just shot aid and you are screwed. I don't care what "expert" testifies to what. This sounds realistic to me. Quoted:
No he's not done bashing the very people he'd be screaming for help to via 911 if he heard glass breaking in the middle of the night. ??? Paramedics? Come clean up the mess? |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 2:14:06 PM EDT
[#36]
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My wife, a well known cop hater , watched that video when it was on the NEWS. She watched it with an open mouth and her hand over her mouth and when it was over, looked at me and said "Is that real?"
Go to a local news Facebook page where it was posted and see what the prospective jurors think. Every single juror is going to have the reaction my wife had and they are going to think, "I have been stopped before. That could happen to me. I want guys like him gone". Like I said before, no jury is going to care if it takes 1.5 seconds to stop shooting at a bad guy. Hell most of them around here aren't going to care if it takes 5 seconds. Start shooting at law abiding citizens with their hands up, the time jurors are going to give to stop shooting is going to drop to somewhere around .000 seconds. Fail to give the law abiding citizen you just shot aid and you are screwed. I don't care what "expert" testifies to what. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Doesn't work for the average GD cop hater. Get some experts on the stand to cover what happens in the real world. My wife, a well known cop hater , watched that video when it was on the NEWS. She watched it with an open mouth and her hand over her mouth and when it was over, looked at me and said "Is that real?"
Go to a local news Facebook page where it was posted and see what the prospective jurors think. Every single juror is going to have the reaction my wife had and they are going to think, "I have been stopped before. That could happen to me. I want guys like him gone". Like I said before, no jury is going to care if it takes 1.5 seconds to stop shooting at a bad guy. Hell most of them around here aren't going to care if it takes 5 seconds. Start shooting at law abiding citizens with their hands up, the time jurors are going to give to stop shooting is going to drop to somewhere around .000 seconds. Fail to give the law abiding citizen you just shot aid and you are screwed. I don't care what "expert" testifies to what. Could be. Could also after hours and expert after expert gives testimony something else happens. I think it's a fucked up shoot but I'm not ready to call it yet on how a jury would see it. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 2:14:37 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a bad assessment of the situation Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Doesn't work for the average GD cop hater. Get some experts on the stand to cover what happens in the real world. My wife, a well known cop hater , watched that video when it was on the NEWS. She watched it with an open mouth and her hand over her mouth and when it was over, looked at me and said "Is that real?"
Go to a local news Facebook page where it was posted and see what the prospective jurors think. Every single juror is going to have the reaction my wife had and they are going to think, "I have been stopped before. That could happen to me. I want guys like him gone". Like I said before, no jury is going to care if it takes 1.5 seconds to stop shooting at a bad guy. Hell most of them around here aren't going to care if it takes 5 seconds. Start shooting at law abiding citizens with their hands up, the time jurors are going to give to stop shooting is going to drop to somewhere around .000 seconds. Fail to give the law abiding citizen you just shot aid and you are screwed. I don't care what "expert" testifies to what. Not a bad assessment of the situation The Troop screwed the pooch......grand jury will indict...... My prediction is he takes a plea deal..... A jury will hang him |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 2:15:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Could be. Could also after hours and expert after expert gives testimony something else happens. I think it's a fucked up shoot but I'm not ready to call it yet on how a jury would see it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Doesn't work for the average GD cop hater. Get some experts on the stand to cover what happens in the real world. My wife, a well known cop hater , watched that video when it was on the NEWS. She watched it with an open mouth and her hand over her mouth and when it was over, looked at me and said "Is that real?"
Go to a local news Facebook page where it was posted and see what the prospective jurors think. Every single juror is going to have the reaction my wife had and they are going to think, "I have been stopped before. That could happen to me. I want guys like him gone". Like I said before, no jury is going to care if it takes 1.5 seconds to stop shooting at a bad guy. Hell most of them around here aren't going to care if it takes 5 seconds. Start shooting at law abiding citizens with their hands up, the time jurors are going to give to stop shooting is going to drop to somewhere around .000 seconds. Fail to give the law abiding citizen you just shot aid and you are screwed. I don't care what "expert" testifies to what. Could be. Could also after hours and expert after expert gives testimony something else happens. I think it's a fucked up shoot but I'm not ready to call it yet on how a jury would see it. I bet his attorney watches the tape......he won't want to go to a trial.....plea offer will be probation for 4 years |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 2:29:02 PM EDT
[#39]
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You're right. The real problem isn't that he didn't stop shooting fast enough, it's that he ever started shooting in the first place (at an eagerly-compliant non-threat). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't know, I'd say that 4th shot was already being processed by the former officer and he had already begun the mental process to continue firing before he recognized that the guy's hands were up in the air. The time inbetween the 3rd and 4th shot is very quick, and as most LEOs on here say "action is quicker than reaction". The guy putting his hands up in the air was the action, and the former LEO ceasing fire was the reaction; albeit delayed. We can watch the video over and over, but in real-time I don't find the 4th shot (all by itself) by the former LEO as "criminal". I find the way the stop was conducted quite unprofessional though. I find opening fire in the first place as BS. But I'm not LEO, wasn't trained as one... You're right. The real problem isn't that he didn't stop shooting fast enough, it's that he ever started shooting in the first place (at an eagerly-compliant non-threat). No, he was a threat, and when he dived into the vehicle, he should have been looking at a muzzle when he popped back out. Then, the cop should have looked at his hands, seen the wallet and de-escalated. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 2:52:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, he was a threat, and when he dived into the vehicle, he should have been looking at a muzzle when he popped back out. Then, the cop should have looked at his hands, seen the wallet and de-escalated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't know, I'd say that 4th shot was already being processed by the former officer and he had already begun the mental process to continue firing before he recognized that the guy's hands were up in the air. The time inbetween the 3rd and 4th shot is very quick, and as most LEOs on here say "action is quicker than reaction". The guy putting his hands up in the air was the action, and the former LEO ceasing fire was the reaction; albeit delayed. We can watch the video over and over, but in real-time I don't find the 4th shot (all by itself) by the former LEO as "criminal". I find the way the stop was conducted quite unprofessional though. I find opening fire in the first place as BS. But I'm not LEO, wasn't trained as one... You're right. The real problem isn't that he didn't stop shooting fast enough, it's that he ever started shooting in the first place (at an eagerly-compliant non-threat). No, he was a threat, and when he dived into the vehicle, he should have been looking at a muzzle when he popped back out. Then, the cop should have looked at his hands, seen the wallet and de-escalated. The officer should have given clear concise instructions. He created his own exigency. I doubt he acted within his training and policies when instructing the gentleman to retrieve his Id. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 3:28:07 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, he was a threat, and when he dived into the vehicle, he should have been looking at a muzzle when he popped back out. Then, the cop should have looked at his hands, seen the wallet and de-escalated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't know, I'd say that 4th shot was already being processed by the former officer and he had already begun the mental process to continue firing before he recognized that the guy's hands were up in the air. The time inbetween the 3rd and 4th shot is very quick, and as most LEOs on here say "action is quicker than reaction". The guy putting his hands up in the air was the action, and the former LEO ceasing fire was the reaction; albeit delayed. We can watch the video over and over, but in real-time I don't find the 4th shot (all by itself) by the former LEO as "criminal". I find the way the stop was conducted quite unprofessional though. I find opening fire in the first place as BS. But I'm not LEO, wasn't trained as one... You're right. The real problem isn't that he didn't stop shooting fast enough, it's that he ever started shooting in the first place (at an eagerly-compliant non-threat). No, he was a threat, and when he dived into the vehicle, he should have been looking at a muzzle when he popped back out. Then, the cop should have looked at his hands, seen the wallet and de-escalated. You might be working from a different definition of that word than me. The only "threat" was in the officer's (over-active) imagination. Your approach would work much better than his did, for both citizens and LEOs. Better still would be to avoid giving commands that might make a citizen reach back into his vehicle to comply. Several LEOs here have said that they would ASK, "where is your ID?". That seems like the best way to handle this, if one insists on pulling someone over for a seatbelt violation. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 4:19:39 PM EDT
[#42]
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No, he was a threat, and when he dived into the vehicle, he should have been looking at a muzzle when he popped back out. Then, the cop should have looked at his hands, seen the wallet and de-escalated. 
If he runs, he's VC. If he stands still, he's well disciplined VC. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 4:54:46 PM EDT
[#43]
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If he runs, he's VC. If he stands still, he's well disciplined VC. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No, he was a threat, and when he dived into the vehicle, he should have been looking at a muzzle when he popped back out. Then, the cop should have looked at his hands, seen the wallet and de-escalated.
If he runs, he's VC. If he stands still, he's well disciplined VC. Well the officer did lead him too much 
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Posted: 9/30/2014 5:07:17 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, he was a threat, and when he dived into the vehicle, he should have been looking at a muzzle when he popped back out. Then, the cop should have looked at his hands, seen the wallet and de-escalated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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I don't know, I'd say that 4th shot was already being processed by the former officer and he had already begun the mental process to continue firing before he recognized that the guy's hands were up in the air. The time inbetween the 3rd and 4th shot is very quick, and as most LEOs on here say "action is quicker than reaction". The guy putting his hands up in the air was the action, and the former LEO ceasing fire was the reaction; albeit delayed. We can watch the video over and over, but in real-time I don't find the 4th shot (all by itself) by the former LEO as "criminal". I find the way the stop was conducted quite unprofessional though. I find opening fire in the first place as BS. But I'm not LEO, wasn't trained as one... You're right. The real problem isn't that he didn't stop shooting fast enough, it's that he ever started shooting in the first place (at an eagerly-compliant non-threat). No, he was a threat, and when he dived into the vehicle, he should have been looking at a muzzle when he popped back out. Then, the cop should have looked at his hands, seen the wallet and de-escalated. If the victim was a threat then everyone an officer engages is a threat. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 6:36:15 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the victim was a threat then everyone an officer engages is a threat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No, he was a threat, and when he dived into the vehicle, he should have been looking at a muzzle when he popped back out. Then, the cop should have looked at his hands, seen the wallet and de-escalated. If the victim was a threat then everyone an officer engages is a threat. Diving into the vehicle would have resulted in harsh wards and a drawn firearm. iirc I've only had one or two other people have a similar reaction when asked for their DL. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:06:21 PM EDT
[#46]
Personally I wouldn't have dove in to my vehicle for my ID for this very reason. I would let the trooper know that my ID was in my vehicle and ask if it would be ok if I retrieved it. Nonetheless I believe the trooper handled the situation poorly to say the least.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 9:10:38 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Personally I wouldn't have dove in to my vehicle for my ID for this very reason. I would let the trooper know that my ID was in my vehicle and ask if it would be ok if I retrieved it. Nonetheless I believe the trooper handled the situation poorly to say the least. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:32:26 PM EDT
[#48]
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Well the officer did lead him too much Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No, he was a threat, and when he dived into the vehicle, he should have been looking at a muzzle when he popped back out. Then, the cop should have looked at his hands, seen the wallet and de-escalated.
If he runs, he's VC. If he stands still, he's well disciplined VC. Well the officer did lead him too much
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Posted: 9/30/2014 11:36:28 PM EDT
[#49]
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Personally I wouldn't have dove in to my vehicle for my ID for this very reason. I would let the trooper know that my ID was in my vehicle and ask if it would be ok if I retrieved it. Nonetheless I believe the trooper handled the situation poorly to say the least. That wasn't a "dive". He had to reach into the car. That's all well and good, but you shouldn't have to hedge against the risk the officer pulling you over is jumpy and scared of his shadow. The officer is in charge of the stop. He's supposed to control how things are done. It's bullshit for him to fuck up the stop and then claim his shitty handling of it made him all scurred. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 7:52:20 AM EDT
[#50]
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That wasn't a "dive". He had to reach into the car. That's all well and good, but you shouldn't have to hedge against the risk the officer pulling you over is jumpy and scared of his shadow. The officer is in charge of the stop. He's supposed to control how things are done. It's bullshit for him to fuck up the stop and then claim his shitty handling of it made him all scurred. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Personally I wouldn't have dove in to my vehicle for my ID for this very reason. I would let the trooper know that my ID was in my vehicle and ask if it would be ok if I retrieved it. Nonetheless I believe the trooper handled the situation poorly to say the least. That wasn't a "dive". He had to reach into the car. That's all well and good, but you shouldn't have to hedge against the risk the officer pulling you over is jumpy and scared of his shadow. The officer is in charge of the stop. He's supposed to control how things are done. It's bullshit for him to fuck up the stop and then claim his shitty handling of it made him all scurred. I didn't mean he literally "dove" in the vehicle, I should have worded it different. I agree completely but unfortunately (as the video shows) that's not how it always is. I do it to cover my ass in case I'm dealing with an officer with an itchy trigger finger. I would like to point out that I'm by no means a cop hater. I've just had some really shitty experiences with the few that honestly don't need to wear a badge. |
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