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Posted: 9/24/2014 4:26:41 PM EDT
McDonald's, Target, Walmart, Kohl's, Kmart, should they be required to pay their workers a living wage? Or should their main concern be the bottom line, profit? Personally I think that you go into business to make a profit, not to be socially engineered by the government.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:27:40 PM EDT
[#1]
No, it is not. Next question, please.

Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:29:44 PM EDT
[#2]
It is a the job of a store to pay enough to attract the kind of employees they need to turn a profit.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:30:03 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
McDonald's, Target, Walmart, Kohl's, Kmart, should they be required to pay their workers a living wage? Or should their main concern be the bottom line, profit? Personally I think that you go into business to make a profit, not to be socially engineered by the government.
View Quote

no
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:31:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Labor is a commodity. It is bought and sold in the market place. Stores should buy labor at the lowest price they can while maintaining the quality goals. Employees sell their labor for the highest possible price. If they want to make more money, they need to make their labor more valuable. Like working harder or having advanced or special skills.

Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:34:18 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
Labor is a commodity. It is bought and sold in the market place. Stores should buy labor at the lowest price they can while maintaining the quality goals. Employees sell their labor for the highest possible price. If they want to make more money, they need to make their labor more valuable. Like working harder or having advanced or special skills.

View Quote

But, what if someone is really, really good at sweeping floors, or flipping burgers? shouldn't he get a living wage?



I'm kidding...of course.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:34:31 PM EDT
[#6]
No. It's not the goal of any corporation to 'provide for their workers'. Their goal is to monetize labor the best way they know how. Failure to do that means they are losing money. If they can monetize workers and pay them a good salary, all the better.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:36:04 PM EDT
[#7]
No, it is the responsibility of the employee to gain a set of skills and knowledge to acquire a position that will provide a living wage.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:36:38 PM EDT
[#8]
That's up to our society to determine.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:37:53 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
No, it is not. Next question, please.

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Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:39:27 PM EDT
[#10]
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No, it is the responsibility of the employee to gain a set of skills and knowledge to acquire a position that will provide a living wage.
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Where is the fairness in that, gee.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:39:39 PM EDT
[#11]
I'll go you one better; people who prepare fast food for a living don't deserve a living wage, particularly adults.



McDonald's is where high school kids and bored moms work. Not the family bread winner.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:40:21 PM EDT
[#12]
The wage rate for unskilled labor is determined by:

A) The number of available positions
B) The number of available workers


That's it.

It's the same for any job.

The higher the training requirement, the smaller the labor pool. In most cases that means a higher wage. If your particular industry tanks, even highly skilled people can wind up fucked.

If literally anyone can walk in off the street and learn your "job" in a few hours, do not expect a living wage. Put another way, if you can be replaced in minimal time with minimal effort, do not expect a living wage.

Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:40:40 PM EDT
[#13]

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Where is the fairness in that, gee.
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Quoted:

No, it is the responsibility of the employee to gain a set of skills and knowledge to acquire a position that will provide a living wage.


Where is the fairness in that, gee.




 
I'm not paying $9 for a Big Mac just illegal aliens can live higher off the hog.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:41:30 PM EDT
[#14]
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  I'm not paying $9 for a Big Mac just illegal aliens can live higher off the hog.
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No, it is the responsibility of the employee to gain a set of skills and knowledge to acquire a position that will provide a living wage.

Where is the fairness in that, gee.

  I'm not paying $9 for a Big Mac just illegal aliens can live higher off the hog.

Filthy, xenophobic,racist you...........
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:42:04 PM EDT
[#15]
IN.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:42:39 PM EDT
[#16]
labor should have a value that can be quantified.



you show up late, look sloppy, talk disrespectful, play with your phone all day and make others do your work then you have very little value
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:43:30 PM EDT
[#17]
FPNI
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:43:51 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
labor should have a value that can be quantified.

you show up late, look sloppy, talk disrespectful, play with your phone all day and make others do your work then you have very little value
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sounds like the typical teenager.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:44:04 PM EDT
[#19]
What determines a living wage?
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:45:40 PM EDT
[#20]
IN!!!
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:45:47 PM EDT
[#21]
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What determines a living wage?
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What determines a living wage?


Wiki Link

In public policy, a living wage is the minimum income necessary for a worker to meet their needs that are considered to be basic. This is not necessarily the same as subsistence, which refers to a biological minimum, though the two terms are commonly confused. These needs include shelter (housing) and other incidentals such as clothing and nutrition. In some nations such as the United Kingdom and Switzerland, this standard generally means that a person working forty hours a week, with no additional income, should be able to afford the basics for quality of life, food, utilities, transport, health care, and minimal recreation, one course a year to upgrade their education and childcare although in many cases education, saving for retirement, and less commonly legal fees and insurance, or taking care of a sick or elderly family member are not included. It also does not allow for debt repayment of any kind. In addition to this definition, living wage activists further define a living wage as the wage equivalent to the poverty line for a family of four. This is two adults working full-time with one child age 9 and another of age 4.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:45:50 PM EDT
[#22]

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Quoted:


I'll go you one better; people who prepare fast food for a living don't deserve a living wage, particularly adults.


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McDonald's is where high school kids and bored moms work. Not the family bread winner.
I haven't earned minimum wage since 2 months into my first job in high school.  The concept of an adult not having the skills to earn more than that blows my mind.

 
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:46:39 PM EDT
[#23]
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No, it is the responsibility of the employee to gain a set of skills and knowledge to acquire a position that will provide a living wage.
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this
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:46:49 PM EDT
[#24]
If you have a burger flipper that performs at the required rate of flippage, that person will earn prevailing burger flipper wages.  Now let's say that you have a burger flipping phenom that performs at a rate that triples his production or more, you would be foolish to not offer him better compensation.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:47:12 PM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:

But, what if someone is really, really good at sweeping floors, or flipping burgers? shouldn't he get a living wage?

I'm kidding...of course.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Labor is a commodity. It is bought and sold in the market place. Stores should buy labor at the lowest price they can while maintaining the quality goals. Employees sell their labor for the highest possible price. If they want to make more money, they need to make their labor more valuable. Like working harder or having advanced or special skills.


But, what if someone is really, really good at sweeping floors, or flipping burgers? shouldn't he get a living wage?

I'm kidding...of course.


When floor sweeping becomes a major offered by an accredited school followed by extensive in-house mentorship, peer evaluations, and annual state licensing requirements.  Then, sure.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:47:12 PM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:
What determines a living wage?
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Does it pay for the rent, a classy ride, utilities, food, can you really style on the proceeds, raise a family, get that home entertainment center, pay for smokes, and still have some left over for booze? If not  then I argue it ain't a living wage.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:47:19 PM EDT
[#27]
No. The job of the company is to turn a profit with minimal expenses. If you need to pay someone a lot of money to turn a large profit, it pays. When you need to pay a lot of money for little profit then their margins go down and the company is not acting in its best interest.

On another note, what happens when skilled labor gets paid the same as saying "you want fries with that?". Either inflation happens and everyone loses or skilled labor quits. How would life be without nursing, welders, or mechanics?
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:47:33 PM EDT
[#28]
Any business that isn't paying as little as possible for labor is doing it wrong.  Same goes for office supplies, raw materials, utilities, taxes, property, insurance...
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:49:36 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:
Any business that isn't paying as little as possible for labor is doing it wrong.  Same goes for office supplies, raw materials, utilities, taxes, property, insurance...
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No one disagrees.  This is about setting the bar for what constitutes "as little as possible."
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:53:01 PM EDT
[#30]
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No one disagrees.  This is about setting the bar for what constitutes "as little as possible."
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Nobody should have any input whatsoever in setting that "bar" other than the employee (labor seller) and the employer (labor buyer).
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:53:03 PM EDT
[#31]

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Where is the fairness in that, gee.
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Quoted:

No, it is the responsibility of the employee to gain a set of skills and knowledge to acquire a position that will provide a living wage.


Where is the fairness in that, gee.
Yeah what kind of hard working bullshit is that?

 
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:55:01 PM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:


No one disagrees.  This is about setting the bar for what constitutes "as little as possible."
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Quoted:
Any business that isn't paying as little as possible for labor is doing it wrong.  Same goes for office supplies, raw materials, utilities, taxes, property, insurance...


No one disagrees.  This is about setting the bar for what constitutes "as little as possible."

Whatever a competent applicant is willing to do it for.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:55:18 PM EDT
[#33]
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Yeah what kind of hard working bullshit is that?  
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No, it is the responsibility of the employee to gain a set of skills and knowledge to acquire a position that will provide a living wage.

Where is the fairness in that, gee.
Yeah what kind of hard working bullshit is that?  

Nothing wrong with hard........but work? damn do those really go together? damn.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:57:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Is this "troll for wage equality" Wednesday, or are you just bored and shit?
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:58:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Fuck no.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 4:58:38 PM EDT
[#36]
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Whatever a competent applicant is willing to do it for.
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Quoted:
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Any business that isn't paying as little as possible for labor is doing it wrong.  Same goes for office supplies, raw materials, utilities, taxes, property, insurance...


No one disagrees.  This is about setting the bar for what constitutes "as little as possible."

Whatever a competent applicant is willing to do it for.


All determined by the labor pool, which seems on the verge of revolt.  Maybe they'll form a "lollipop guild" or something.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 5:00:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Define "Living Wage" the needy always get more needy when it is not earned (Government induced inflation also has  a big role in this). Where does it end????????
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 5:01:07 PM EDT
[#38]
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No, it is not. Next question, please.

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Maybe so, but I'm pretty it's in their best interests to do so
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 5:06:38 PM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:

  I'm not paying $9 for a Big Mac just illegal aliens can live higher off the hog.
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No, it is the responsibility of the employee to gain a set of skills and knowledge to acquire a position that will provide a living wage.

Where is the fairness in that, gee.

  I'm not paying $9 for a Big Mac just illegal aliens can live higher off the hog.


But you are paying higher taxes because that low wage worker still qualifies for welfare.  More people getting paid a living  wage = fewer people qualifying for the Government dole.

All these low wage people quality for government assistance, so a low minimum wage is more corporate welfare than anything else.  Those guys working fast food at $7hr still get their EBT, obama phone, section 8 housing, etc.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 5:07:51 PM EDT
[#40]
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All determined by the labor pool, which seems on the verge of revolt.  Maybe they'll form a "lollipop guild" or something.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Any business that isn't paying as little as possible for labor is doing it wrong.  Same goes for office supplies, raw materials, utilities, taxes, property, insurance...


No one disagrees.  This is about setting the bar for what constitutes "as little as possible."

Whatever a competent applicant is willing to do it for.


All determined by the labor pool, which seems on the verge of revolt.  Maybe they'll form a "lollipop guild" or something.

That's why they are having to attack it through legislation.  The argument for higher wages in that industry doesn't hold water.  If it did, there would be no need for the 'revolt'.  They could all walk off the job right now and refuse to come back for less than $15, and the fact is the jobs would be gone before they got to the end of the parking lot, taken by people willing to do it for 9 or 10.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 5:08:54 PM EDT
[#41]
Who has your best interest at heart, you or some corporate HR office?     Obviously, you have your best interest at heart.    If you feel your skills are worth more than your employer is willing to pay, then you have the freedom to pursue any employer who will pay you what you think you are worth.

I would like to be paid more.   That does not obligate my employer to pay me more.

If the product of your labors only bring $10 an hour to your employer, how can you expect a pay rate higher than that?
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 5:08:57 PM EDT
[#42]
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But you are paying higher taxes because that low wage worker still qualifies for welfare.  More people getting paid a living  wage = fewer people qualifying for the Government dole.
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No, it is the responsibility of the employee to gain a set of skills and knowledge to acquire a position that will provide a living wage.

Where is the fairness in that, gee.

  I'm not paying $9 for a Big Mac just illegal aliens can live higher off the hog.


But you are paying higher taxes because that low wage worker still qualifies for welfare.  More people getting paid a living  wage = fewer people qualifying for the Government dole.

No because inflation causes increased prices which increase the federal poverty limit.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 5:10:07 PM EDT
[#43]
Part of their benefit package to employees should be a welfare application so we can all help subsidies their profits
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 5:10:42 PM EDT
[#44]
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 More people getting paid a living  wage = fewer people qualifying for the Government dole.
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More people having labor to sell that's worth a living wage = the only way people should earn a living wage.

Do you decide how much to pay for your gasoline based on what the station owner needs to pay his bills that week?
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 5:12:52 PM EDT
[#45]
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Whatever a competent applicant is willing to do it for.
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That would be the most beneficial for the businesses but not society.  That's where the conflict is.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 5:13:19 PM EDT
[#46]
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More people having labor to sell that's worth a living wage = the only way people should earn a living wage.

Do you decide how much to pay for your gasoline based on what the station owner needs to pay his bills that week?
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Quoted:
 More people getting paid a living  wage = fewer people qualifying for the Government dole.


More people having labor to sell that's worth a living wage = the only way people should earn a living wage.

Do you decide how much to pay for your gasoline based on what the station owner needs to pay his bills that week?


Look at the big picture.  We're still paying for those people through higher taxes.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 5:14:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
McDonald's, Target, Walmart, Kohl's, Kmart, should they be required to pay their workers a living wage? Or should their main concern be the bottom line, profit? Personally I think that you go into business to make a profit, not to be socially engineered by the government.
View Quote


As an adult, if that's the best you can do, well you are failing. Pay the people what they are worth, minimun wage.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 5:14:37 PM EDT
[#48]

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Part of their benefit package to employees should be a welfare application so we can all help subsidies their profits
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When they shitcan a bunch of employees who just priced themselves out of work, what does that do to welfare applications?

 
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 5:15:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Even as a Libertarian I believe the government does have a role in limiting the bottom/minimum working pay/conditions.  To prevent abuse or taking advantage of people (all of which is undermined by illegals working for less).  That does not necessarily guarantee you a "living wage" with a nice apt in a good neighborhood.  
It's still a "free market".  Those employees are free to bargain, go elsewhere or to petition the public to not shop there.  

Still, there is clearly something wrong with the system in which large employers are making a profit while dumping their employee's on the government supported welfare system to provide them with their needed health care, food stamps and housing subsidies.  That's not right either.  Take away those "safety nets" and let the employee's/employers figure out how to get by on their own.

I see no reason to subsidize someone else's profit simply to keep a Big Mac less than $7, but then tax the shit of me to pay for the government handouts to support their business.  If McD's really had to pay it's own costs either they might have to raise the price of the Big Mac, or not pay it's investors as much profit.  Instead they have figured out how to shift some of their costs to the taxpayer.

I like the idea of a minimum safety net... minimum being the key word, for a few in temporary need.  Not a status quo for millions of people with jobs.
There is also no point in tripling the minimum wage, if the government keeps devaluing our currency with deficit spending and increasing the cost of living/doing business.  
In a strong economy, with a strong currency, everyone does well and can afford a "living wage", while business makes a profit.  In a downward economy everyone is blaming each other for their problems; the rats are eating each other.
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 5:15:42 PM EDT
[#50]
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Look at the big picture.  We're still paying for those people through higher taxes.
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So your answer is to increase wages, put those people out of work, so we can subsidize them completely instead of just partially?  
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