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Posted: 9/22/2014 10:26:10 PM EDT
[#1]
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Why do they continue the model when it has such a serious flaw? Does it just sell that well as is? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hell, forget influence from the M16 / AR. Wouldn't the Garand or the M1 Carbine have been a huge influence on rifle design? Take the word of an old guy if you will. The Remington 742 was not one of Remingtons better designs. I'm young, but I always try to listen to those older than me. Noted. The 742's were notorious for being less than long lived as one of the earlier posters mentioned about the receivers. Truth is my old barber had one in 30-06 that he kept very well maintained and his was quite reliable. But those people who rarely or never detail cleaned them were heading for problems. And for some 742 models even that was not enough. Why do they continue the model when it has such a serious flaw? Does it just sell that well as is? Because ten rounds a year for 15 years is still a low round count and that's the reality of these guns. They are especially popular for hunters doing drives where shots on running deer are common. |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 10:29:52 PM EDT
[#2]
11xx shotgun hunt for birds, 742 in thuty ought six hunt for 4 legged critters. Controls and ergos are the same for both.
it's a two for one sale, and the customer felt the same with both guns; no need to relearn a weapon. How hard is that to figure out? |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 10:30:54 PM EDT
[#3]
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You make valid points. I understand design intent. Also, I had not even considered the design intent of unloading, casing, uncasing, repeatedly in one hunt. The position of the controls begin to make more sense now. Still, an AR with a 10 rd mag and a smooth, thin profile firearm would be better wouldn't it? Easier magazine controls, and a smoother mag well. Bolt opens and releases more easily. And it's a lighter weapon system. Though, that's comparing a 5.56 to a .30-0 which is obviously not the most exact comparison. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Rifles like that are designed for their purpose, and one of the "tedious" tasks of hunting is going in and out of a rifle case (in most areas) time after time, some times multiple times a day. A rifle with a form like that Remington does so effortlessly, without protruding knobs and catches and cheese graters randomly placed about it. It was never intended to maintain sustained fire, or to change magazines quickly, in fact, the largest purpose of magazines was simply to make it easier to unload quickly so it could go back into it's case, into the truck, to the next location of a drive. The lack of as you call them "ergonomic" features, also makes it much handier to carry through brush and what not. So if you take that rifle to the range with the intent of "running it" to "see what it can do" complete with one handed mag changes and left handed under the gun bolt manipulation, yes, you are probably going to be disappointed. You make valid points. I understand design intent. Also, I had not even considered the design intent of unloading, casing, uncasing, repeatedly in one hunt. The position of the controls begin to make more sense now. Still, an AR with a 10 rd mag and a smooth, thin profile firearm would be better wouldn't it? Easier magazine controls, and a smoother mag well. Bolt opens and releases more easily. And it's a lighter weapon system. Though, that's comparing a 5.56 to a .30-0 which is obviously not the most exact comparison. Compare it with an AR10 and you have rifles of roughly similar weight, one of which may be banned by name or design either from ownership or from use in hunting depending on the geographic area, a 10 round magazine that may be banned from ownership or from use hunting, and you still have a pistol grip that while I agree is more comfortable and easier to shoot with, is a protrusion that makes carrying in some methods uncomfortable, or storing in cases harder. Don't get me wrong. I hate the Remington semi-auto centerfires. They're junk, in my opinion (and not because of the reasons you've stated, but the receiver issues others have stated), along with their pump action cousins. But for the purpose they serve, catering to a not insignificant group of hunters who are neither passionate about shooting or firearms in general, they are almost ubiquitous in deer camps across the nation. |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 10:34:03 PM EDT
[#4]
When you say "older semi autos", do you mean earlier variants of this model, or other guns entirely? I mean other guns entirely. Mostly, I am referring to the Browning designed Remington model 8, and the various early Winchester semi-auto rifles. Both were popular hunting rifles, but both were also used in the 1930s by people on both sides of the law. The Remington model 8 fired rimless cartridges with ballistics equivalent to the popular lever gun cartridges. It kicked kind of hard, because of its recoil action, but was a very good Fudd rifle which saw some LE, anti-LE, and possibly military use as well. The Winchester 1907 was chambered for the .351 SL, pretty much equivalent to a .357 magnum years before it was offered. It saw limited military use in WWI, and was probably the most popular of that series of rifles. The .32SL probably inspired the M1 carbine's .30 caliber cartridge. It was available in the model 1905. These old rifles weren't perfect, but they do seem to be better than some of the post WWII semi autos. Though, to be fair, it is difficult to make a semi-auto firing a full size rifle cartridge. The M1 was adopted just a few years prior to WWII. If offered commercially as a hunting rifle, I doubt that it would have made it. |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 10:34:16 PM EDT
[#5]
It's a man's rifle, but if you are careful not to break a nail on the charging handle you should be fine. Until the recoil.
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Posted: 9/22/2014 10:35:01 PM EDT
[#6]
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You make valid points. I understand design intent. Also, I had not even considered the design intent of unloading, casing, uncasing, repeatedly in one hunt. The position of the controls begin to make more sense now. Still, an AR with a 10 rd mag and a smooth, thin profile firearm would be better wouldn't it? Easier magazine controls, and a smoother mag well. Bolt opens and releases more easily. And it's a lighter weapon system. Though, that's comparing a 5.56 to a .30-0 which is obviously not the most exact comparison. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Rifles like that are designed for their purpose, and one of the "tedious" tasks of hunting is going in and out of a rifle case (in most areas) time after time, some times multiple times a day. A rifle with a form like that Remington does so effortlessly, without protruding knobs and catches and cheese graters randomly placed about it. It was never intended to maintain sustained fire, or to change magazines quickly, in fact, the largest purpose of magazines was simply to make it easier to unload quickly so it could go back into it's case, into the truck, to the next location of a drive. The lack of as you call them "ergonomic" features, also makes it much handier to carry through brush and what not. So if you take that rifle to the range with the intent of "running it" to "see what it can do" complete with one handed mag changes and left handed under the gun bolt manipulation, yes, you are probably going to be disappointed. You make valid points. I understand design intent. Also, I had not even considered the design intent of unloading, casing, uncasing, repeatedly in one hunt. The position of the controls begin to make more sense now. Still, an AR with a 10 rd mag and a smooth, thin profile firearm would be better wouldn't it? Easier magazine controls, and a smoother mag well. Bolt opens and releases more easily. And it's a lighter weapon system. Though, that's comparing a 5.56 to a .30-0 which is obviously not the most exact comparison. There are places that a caliber less than .24 are not legal for deer. I hunted on a large ranch in south Texas that would not allow a caliber smaller than .243/6mm to be used for deer hunting. A .223 will get the job done with todays bullet selection but a lot of people feel that is starting to really push limits on large deer. Of course shot placement rules. As far as weight or ergonomics goes. I have an old Remington 600 in .308 with a Leupold 2x7 scope on it that weighs just slightly over 7.25 pounds. And I can reliably anchor a deer out to 400 yards. The barrel is 18.5 inches long and the total rifle length is 37.5 inches. |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 10:43:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: My father in law is leaving his Remington Woodsmaster model 742 .30-06 4 rd semi auto at my house for awhile so in exchange for babysitting and cleaning it, I get to play with it. So, to the issue. Although it's good looking and has a solid heft, wtf is up with the nearly inoperable charging handle (due to being so small you can only grab it with one finger), the idiotic bolt release, the shotgun safety, and the fuck me sideways retarded magazine release? Again, very nice looking gun. Can't wait to shoot it. But the controls are so tedious it makes me think it's on purpose. Your thoughts? Am I just a young-un that don't know nuffin?  Because it's not a H&K SLB 2000.   |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 10:56:36 PM EDT
[#8]
The remington 7400 and the like suck. Period. In all ways.
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Posted: 9/22/2014 10:56:56 PM EDT
[#9]
742s have killed semi-loads of deer.
Unergonomic my ass. OP is a spoiled girl-child.
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Posted: 9/22/2014 10:59:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds right. But there are a lot of hunters using ARs now. Presumably the 742 continued despite its flaws because it had a market for those that wanted a specific looking gun. Considering the hunting clientele is merging with the newer, "operator" types, is it feasible that these type of unergonomic fudd guns are breathing their last? Also, because this gun is sold as a tool, and has lifespan issues, it could possibly become a rare piece in 50 years if it's in good quality. Maybe? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lol. Not one of Remington's better designs. Hunting rifles are made to be light and aesthetically pleasing for the most part. Firefights, fantasy zombie attacks, dressing up like an operator, bump firing, and shooting dirt doesn't figure into the equation. Different tools for different jobs and clientele, with a little bleed over in all areas of uses. Sounds right. But there are a lot of hunters using ARs now. Presumably the 742 continued despite its flaws because it had a market for those that wanted a specific looking gun. Considering the hunting clientele is merging with the newer, "operator" types, is it feasible that these type of unergonomic fudd guns are breathing their last? Also, because this gun is sold as a tool, and has lifespan issues, it could possibly become a rare piece in 50 years if it's in good quality. Maybe? Yeah. I hunt with my ARs, but I view them as less than ideal for mountain hunting. Do they work, yes, and they have been carried over mountain ranges all over the world. Outside of something like a Nemo Arms, almost all ARs are chambered in intermediate calibers which excel at nothing but portability of ammo. Aside from range time, I will maybe shoot my elk, deer, or speed goat rifle a couple times a year at game. I don't need sustained fire or a removable magazine. I can have something in a caliber that packs some punch down range, is very lightweight to compared to any AR of similar caliber, is a much simpler, robust, and reliable design compared to a semi auto, etc. I love ARs, but they do not have a "soul" like a richly blued firearm with a figured wood stock. My ARs are utilitarian, a hammer if you will. Everyone needs a hammer, but hammers do not inspire anything but work. Lol Anyway, yes, my boys love going through my safes, and they like my Military style guns (they call them Army guns, due to my service). They enjoy shooting my ARs, and enjoy building them, and learning about them, and how to use them. Their eyes light up, though, when Daddy's elk rifle comes out of the safe and the wood stock has warmth, they can see themselves in the bluing that isn't worn, and count the nicks from black timber hunts, or the discolored leather cheek piece. It's the same for any of my traditional guns. Different strokes and all that. |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 11:02:43 PM EDT
[#11]
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75% of their market shoot the rifle 2 rounds a year. Once, to see if it still hits a paper plate at 100 yards like last year, and a second time if they see a deer. And those are the "heavy users" since the other 25% feel that first round was unnecessary. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The 742's were notorious for being less than long lived as one of the earlier posters mentioned about the receivers. Truth is my old barber had one in 30-06 that he kept very well maintained and his was quite reliable. But those people who rarely or never detail cleaned them were heading for problems. And for some 742 models even that was not enough. Why do they continue the model when it has such a serious flaw? Does it just sell that well as is? 75% of their market shoot the rifle 2 rounds a year. Once, to see if it still hits a paper plate at 100 yards like last year, and a second time if they see a deer. And those are the "heavy users" since the other 25% feel that first round was unnecessary. That's criminal. 
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Posted: 9/22/2014 11:06:13 PM EDT
[#12]
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11xx shotgun hunt for birds, 742 in thuty ought six hunt for 4 legged critters. Controls and ergos are the same for both. it's a two for one sale, and the customer felt the same with both guns; no need to relearn a weapon. How hard is that to figure out? Well, damn. Got me 
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Posted: 9/22/2014 11:09:05 PM EDT
[#13]
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That's criminal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The 742's were notorious for being less than long lived as one of the earlier posters mentioned about the receivers. Truth is my old barber had one in 30-06 that he kept very well maintained and his was quite reliable. But those people who rarely or never detail cleaned them were heading for problems. And for some 742 models even that was not enough. Why do they continue the model when it has such a serious flaw? Does it just sell that well as is? 75% of their market shoot the rifle 2 rounds a year. Once, to see if it still hits a paper plate at 100 yards like last year, and a second time if they see a deer. And those are the "heavy users" since the other 25% feel that first round was unnecessary. That's criminal. I have quite a few bolt and lever guns and they do get shot. I don't reload and hunting ammo can get expensive. I just spent slightly north of $250 online yesterday buying several boxes of .308,.243,and 30-30. |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 11:09:55 PM EDT
[#14]
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It's a man's rifle, but if you are careful not to break a nail on the charging handle you should be fine. Until the recoil. 
Yeah yeah. |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 11:11:05 PM EDT
[#15]
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The remington 7400 and the like suck. Period. In all ways. Not true. But this is the reason that the banners hate EBRs. The 74xx series of rifles are not capable of performing sustained fire. They are, in fact less worthy than a solid bolt action rifle. They perform their designed function, however, and the banners love that function. For now. I have a 7400 in .308. It is a solid platform for the job it was designed for, not a whole lot more. I'm sure that at some point I will have to turn it into a pump gun, because it is not designed for sustained fire. But, I repeat myself. |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 11:14:06 PM EDT
[#16]
The only one of that ilk I ever cared for was the carbine version in .280 Remington.
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Posted: 9/22/2014 11:24:05 PM EDT
[#17]
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742s have killed semi-loads of deer. Unergonomic my ass. OP is a spoiled girl-child. lol! Got a laugh out of that. Didn't say it doesn't shoot straight.
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Posted: 9/22/2014 11:25:33 PM EDT
[#18]
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I have quite a few bolt and lever guns and they do get shot. I don't reload and hunting ammo can get expensive. I just spent slightly north of $250 online yesterday buying several boxes of .308,.243,and 30-30. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The 742's were notorious for being less than long lived as one of the earlier posters mentioned about the receivers. Truth is my old barber had one in 30-06 that he kept very well maintained and his was quite reliable. But those people who rarely or never detail cleaned them were heading for problems. And for some 742 models even that was not enough. Why do they continue the model when it has such a serious flaw? Does it just sell that well as is? 75% of their market shoot the rifle 2 rounds a year. Once, to see if it still hits a paper plate at 100 yards like last year, and a second time if they see a deer. And those are the "heavy users" since the other 25% feel that first round was unnecessary. That's criminal. I have quite a few bolt and lever guns and they do get shot. I don't reload and hunting ammo can get expensive. I just spent slightly north of $250 online yesterday buying several boxes of .308,.243,and 30-30. But tell me you don't know people exactly like I described. The fact that anyone takes the time to even frequent a site like this almost precludes them from that group, but they exist, and sadly, they breed. |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 11:26:59 PM EDT
[#19]
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Yeah. I hunt with my ARs, but I view them as less than ideal for mountain hunting. Do they work, yes, and they have been carried over mountain ranges all over the world. Outside of something like a Nemo Arms, almost all ARs are chambered in intermediate calibers which excel at nothing but portability of ammo. Aside from range time, I will maybe shoot my elk, deer, or speed goat rifle a couple times a year at game. I don't need sustained fire or a removable magazine. I can have something in a caliber that packs some punch down range, is very lightweight to compared to any AR of similar caliber, is a much simpler, robust, and reliable design compared to a semi auto, etc. I love ARs, but they do not have a "soul" like a richly blued firearm with a figured wood stock. My ARs are utilitarian, a hammer if you will. Everyone needs a hammer, but hammers do not inspire anything but work. Lol Anyway, yes, my boys love going through my safes, and they like my Military style guns (they call them Army guns, due to my service). They enjoy shooting my ARs, and enjoy building them, and learning about them, and how to use them. Their eyes light up, though, when Daddy's elk rifle comes out of the safe and the wood stock has warmth, they can see themselves in the bluing that isn't worn, and count the nicks from black timber hunts, or the discolored leather cheek piece. It's the same for any of my traditional guns. Different strokes and all that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lol. Not one of Remington's better designs. Hunting rifles are made to be light and aesthetically pleasing for the most part. Firefights, fantasy zombie attacks, dressing up like an operator, bump firing, and shooting dirt doesn't figure into the equation. Different tools for different jobs and clientele, with a little bleed over in all areas of uses. Sounds right. But there are a lot of hunters using ARs now. Presumably the 742 continued despite its flaws because it had a market for those that wanted a specific looking gun. Considering the hunting clientele is merging with the newer, "operator" types, is it feasible that these type of unergonomic fudd guns are breathing their last? Also, because this gun is sold as a tool, and has lifespan issues, it could possibly become a rare piece in 50 years if it's in good quality. Maybe? Yeah. I hunt with my ARs, but I view them as less than ideal for mountain hunting. Do they work, yes, and they have been carried over mountain ranges all over the world. Outside of something like a Nemo Arms, almost all ARs are chambered in intermediate calibers which excel at nothing but portability of ammo. Aside from range time, I will maybe shoot my elk, deer, or speed goat rifle a couple times a year at game. I don't need sustained fire or a removable magazine. I can have something in a caliber that packs some punch down range, is very lightweight to compared to any AR of similar caliber, is a much simpler, robust, and reliable design compared to a semi auto, etc. I love ARs, but they do not have a "soul" like a richly blued firearm with a figured wood stock. My ARs are utilitarian, a hammer if you will. Everyone needs a hammer, but hammers do not inspire anything but work. Lol Anyway, yes, my boys love going through my safes, and they like my Military style guns (they call them Army guns, due to my service). They enjoy shooting my ARs, and enjoy building them, and learning about them, and how to use them. Their eyes light up, though, when Daddy's elk rifle comes out of the safe and the wood stock has warmth, they can see themselves in the bluing that isn't worn, and count the nicks from black timber hunts, or the discolored leather cheek piece. It's the same for any of my traditional guns. Different strokes and all that. Thank you for your service. Good stuff in that post. Btw, my favorite gun is my SAA. |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 11:31:31 PM EDT
[#20]
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Because it's not a H&K SLB 2000. http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y525/Cobra_Rattler_556/DSCN0715_zps6ffc1161.jpg http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y525/Cobra_Rattler_556/DSCN0366_zpscc5b59c5.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My father in law is leaving his Remington Woodsmaster model 742 .30-06 4 rd semi auto at my house for awhile so in exchange for babysitting and cleaning it, I get to play with it. So, to the issue. Although it's good looking and has a solid heft, wtf is up with the nearly inoperable charging handle (due to being so small you can only grab it with one finger), the idiotic bolt release, the shotgun safety, and the fuck me sideways retarded magazine release? Again, very nice looking gun. Can't wait to shoot it. But the controls are so tedious it makes me think it's on purpose. Your thoughts? Am I just a young-un that don't know nuffin? Because it's not a H&K SLB 2000. http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y525/Cobra_Rattler_556/DSCN0715_zps6ffc1161.jpg http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y525/Cobra_Rattler_556/DSCN0366_zpscc5b59c5.jpg H&K? What's the price tag on that sombitch?
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Posted: 9/22/2014 11:31:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But tell me you don't know people exactly like I described. The fact that anyone takes the time to even frequent a site like this almost precludes them from that group, but they exist, and sadly, they breed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why do they continue the model when it has such a serious flaw? Does it just sell that well as is? 75% of their market shoot the rifle 2 rounds a year. Once, to see if it still hits a paper plate at 100 yards like last year, and a second time if they see a deer. And those are the "heavy users" since the other 25% feel that first round was unnecessary. That's criminal. I have quite a few bolt and lever guns and they do get shot. I don't reload and hunting ammo can get expensive. I just spent slightly north of $250 online yesterday buying several boxes of .308,.243,and 30-30. But tell me you don't know people exactly like I described. The fact that anyone takes the time to even frequent a site like this almost precludes them from that group, but they exist, and sadly, they breed. Yeah, but, this is a hobby just like bicycling for most gun owners... Realistically, outside of military service, Leo work, or the one in a million chance you would ever use your CCW, hunting is one of the few things a gun will ever do besides shoot paper or steel. I know how to ride a bicycle, but I only do it once or twice every few years. |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 11:33:52 PM EDT
[#22]
You don't need no eergo-nomiks to shoot a damn deer.
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Posted: 9/22/2014 11:34:38 PM EDT
[#23]
When I was a kid in the early 70's, my mom bought my dad a new 742 in 30.06 and he bought her a Winchester 30.30.
I killed deer with both guns when I was younger. I never had any issues with the 742 but it was never my favorite rifle. I still have both guns but haven't shot them in quite some time. I will always keep them for the memories of my parents deer hunting together. |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 11:48:09 PM EDT
[#24]
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Yeah, but, this is a hobby just like bicycling for most gun owners... Realistically, outside of military service, Leo work, or the one in a million chance you would ever use your CCW, hunting is one of the few things a gun will ever do besides shoot paper or steel. I know how to ride a bicycle, but I only do it once or twice every few years. I get that, but you don't ride a bike on a X thousand dollar hunt, or probably place the same sense of accomplishment as you do on bagging X trophy, and knowing how to ride a bike and being proficient at riding a bike are 2 different things. Actually, I would expect you in particular to espouse the necessity of a hunter to practice marksmanship. Is it terribly critical to the average deer hunter, no, probably not, from a rested position at reasonably short range on a stationary target. Deer are incredibly easy to kill, evidenced by the number killed by the people I described, but still, I take pride in my hobbies, and I aim to be proficient at them. I can ride a bike as well, but it's certainly not something I'd call a hobby, in fact its something I try to avoid
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Posted: 9/22/2014 11:50:15 PM EDT
[#25]
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When I was a kid in the early 70's, my mom bought my dad a new 742 in 30.06 and he bought her a Winchester 30.30. I killed deer with both guns when I was younger. I never had any issues with the 742 but it was never my favorite rifle. I still have both guns but haven't shot them in quite some time. I will always keep them for the memories of my parents deer hunting together. Got a couple myself I'll probably never shoot again for the same exact reasoning. |
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Posted: 9/22/2014 11:54:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get that, but you don't ride a bike on a X thousand dollar hunt, or probably place the same sense of accomplishment as you do on bagging X trophy, and knowing how to ride a bike and being proficient at riding a bike are 2 different things. Actually, I would expect you in particular to espouse the necessity of a hunter to practice marksmanship. Is it terribly critical to the average deer hunter, no, probably not, from a rested position at reasonably short range on a stationary target. Deer are incredibly easy to kill, evidenced by the number killed by the people I described, but still, I take pride in my hobbies, and I aim to be proficient at them. I can ride a bike as well, but it's certainly not something I'd call a hobby, in fact its something I try to avoid Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah, but, this is a hobby just like bicycling for most gun owners... Realistically, outside of military service, Leo work, or the one in a million chance you would ever use your CCW, hunting is one of the few things a gun will ever do besides shoot paper or steel. I know how to ride a bicycle, but I only do it once or twice every few years. I get that, but you don't ride a bike on a X thousand dollar hunt, or probably place the same sense of accomplishment as you do on bagging X trophy, and knowing how to ride a bike and being proficient at riding a bike are 2 different things. Actually, I would expect you in particular to espouse the necessity of a hunter to practice marksmanship. Is it terribly critical to the average deer hunter, no, probably not, from a rested position at reasonably short range on a stationary target. Deer are incredibly easy to kill, evidenced by the number killed by the people I described, but still, I take pride in my hobbies, and I aim to be proficient at them. I can ride a bike as well, but it's certainly not something I'd call a hobby, in fact its something I try to avoid Oh no, I view shooting skills, hunting, stalking, and other shooting type things as much more than a hobby. I was just offering a glimpse into the mindset of the average gun owner. My dad is your typical eastern deer stand hunter. He takes his Browning White Gold Medallion out of of its case once a year during deer season. I developed a load for that rifle about 10 years ago, and loaded him 100 rounds, weighing every powder charge. He has 93 of them left in the box. Lol He was absolutely amazed that I pulled that gun out and rang steel with it at 300 yards last year when he came out to hunt speed goats. He is coming around, though, he bought his first AR and G19 two years ago, and shoots them regularly. I doubt he will ever shoot competitions, long range, or even take a carbine course, but I have had "the talk" with him several times about the duty to be proficient with a firearm to protect him and my mother. |
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Posted: 9/23/2014 12:03:27 AM EDT
[#27]
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Oh no, I view shooting skills, hunting, stalking, and other shooting type things as much more than a hobby. I was just offering a glimpse into the mindset of the average gun owner. My dad is your typical eastern deer stand hunter. He takes his Browning White Gold Medallion out of of its case once a year during seer season. I developed a load for that rifle about 10 years ago, and loaded him 100 rounds, weighing every powder charge. He has 93 of them left in the box. Lol He was absolutely amazed that I pulled that gun out and rang steel with it at 300 yards last year when he came out to hunt speed goats.
He is coming around, though, he bought his first AR and G19 two years ago, and shoots them regularly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yeah, but, this is a hobby just like bicycling for most gun owners... Realistically, outside of military service, Leo work, or the one in a million chance you would ever use your CCW, hunting is one of the few things a gun will ever do besides shoot paper or steel. I know how to ride a bicycle, but I only do it once or twice every few years. I get that, but you don't ride a bike on a X thousand dollar hunt, or probably place the same sense of accomplishment as you do on bagging X trophy, and knowing how to ride a bike and being proficient at riding a bike are 2 different things. Actually, I would expect you in particular to espouse the necessity of a hunter to practice marksmanship. Is it terribly critical to the average deer hunter, no, probably not, from a rested position at reasonably short range on a stationary target. Deer are incredibly easy to kill, evidenced by the number killed by the people I described, but still, I take pride in my hobbies, and I aim to be proficient at them. I can ride a bike as well, but it's certainly not something I'd call a hobby, in fact its something I try to avoid Oh no, I view shooting skills, hunting, stalking, and other shooting type things as much more than a hobby. I was just offering a glimpse into the mindset of the average gun owner. My dad is your typical eastern deer stand hunter. He takes his Browning White Gold Medallion out of of its case once a year during seer season. I developed a load for that rifle about 10 years ago, and loaded him 100 rounds, weighing every powder charge. He has 93 of them left in the box. Lol He was absolutely amazed that I pulled that gun out and rang steel with it at 300 yards last year when he came out to hunt speed goats.
He is coming around, though, he bought his first AR and G19 two years ago, and shoots them regularly. 
"Typical eastern deer stand hunter...Gold Medallion" Sounds like hes from around here I was blessed to grow up among atypical eastern deer hunters who viewed deer hunting as practice for going out west elk hunting, build a 700 yard range and had their Leupolds sent to Premier Reticle back before they actually made scopes, when 200 yards was commonly considered "long range" for hunting.
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Posted: 9/23/2014 12:17:53 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because it's not a H&K SLB 2000. http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y525/Cobra_Rattler_556/DSCN0715_zps6ffc1161.jpg http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y525/Cobra_Rattler_556/DSCN0366_zpscc5b59c5.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My father in law is leaving his Remington Woodsmaster model 742 .30-06 4 rd semi auto at my house for awhile so in exchange for babysitting and cleaning it, I get to play with it. So, to the issue. Although it's good looking and has a solid heft, wtf is up with the nearly inoperable charging handle (due to being so small you can only grab it with one finger), the idiotic bolt release, the shotgun safety, and the fuck me sideways retarded magazine release? Again, very nice looking gun. Can't wait to shoot it. But the controls are so tedious it makes me think it's on purpose. Your thoughts? Am I just a young-un that don't know nuffin? Because it's not a H&K SLB 2000. http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y525/Cobra_Rattler_556/DSCN0715_zps6ffc1161.jpg http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y525/Cobra_Rattler_556/DSCN0366_zpscc5b59c5.jpg That is one of the most hideous looking rifles I have ever had the displeasure of seeing. |
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Posted: 9/23/2014 12:35:14 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Explain. Pretend I'm retarded  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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For me it's the cold roll steel used for the receiver. It needs a hardened insert for the bolt to engage. Explain. Pretend I'm retarded Cold roll steel isn't very hard. It's OK to make mandrels, fixtures and jigs for working on stuff, but isn't very durable for receivers. That's why there's a hardened steel insert on the top of the (inside of the) receiver as a bearing surface. That insert does its job, but if the steel receiver was made of better material, wouldn't be needed. Rem Engineers did this to reduce production costs, maximize profits. No one at Remington expected those guns to be used 30-40 years. It was meant to be one of those goes out to the range, check the zero, go hunting & bag a buck, then back into the closet for a year type gun. Still, the 760/7600 series of guns are decent guns and for a while the US Army used them in marksmanship contests. Of course they had to rebarrel them to make them more accurate. That said, I'd rather have an older rotary magazine Savage 99. |
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Posted: 9/23/2014 12:45:32 AM EDT
[#30]
I kind of got into Fudd guns last year.
The Savage 340 is my all-time favorite Fudd gun. Over-looked, under-appreciated, side scope mount tack drivers- no matter the caliber. I picked up a 742BDL .30-06, which really started me on Fudd guns. The thing is so accurate, it's like a death ray. In fact, I've retired my M1A and can't bring myself to buy another AR-10 because I like my old Remington better. Also, it's been 100% reliable, which is more than I can say for every AR-10 I've owned. 51.5gr. Varget with 150gr, or 165gr. bullets. |
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Posted: 9/23/2014 2:00:39 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I kind of got into Fudd guns last year. The Savage 340 is my all-time favorite Fudd gun. Over-looked, under-appreciated, side scope mount tack drivers- no matter the caliber. I picked up a 742BDL .30-06, which really started me on Fudd guns. The thing is so accurate, it's like a death ray. In fact, I've retired my M1A and can't bring myself to buy another AR-10 because I like my old Remington better. Also, it's been 100% reliable, which is more than I can say for every AR-10 I've owned. 51.5gr. Varget with 150gr, or 165gr. bullets. My 742 will shoot honest 3-shot 3/4" groups at 100 yds with Federal factory ammo. All my life I've heard how "semi-autos aren't accurate"--which makes me smile. 
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Posted: 9/23/2014 8:48:28 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: H&K? What's the price tag on that sombitch? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: My father in law is leaving his Remington Woodsmaster model 742 .30-06 4 rd semi auto at my house for awhile so in exchange for babysitting and cleaning it, I get to play with it. So, to the issue. Although it's good looking and has a solid heft, wtf is up with the nearly inoperable charging handle (due to being so small you can only grab it with one finger), the idiotic bolt release, the shotgun safety, and the fuck me sideways retarded magazine release? Again, very nice looking gun. Can't wait to shoot it. But the controls are so tedious it makes me think it's on purpose. Your thoughts? Am I just a young-un that don't know nuffin? Because it's not a H&K SLB 2000. http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y525/Cobra_Rattler_556/DSCN0715_zps6ffc1161.jpg http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y525/Cobra_Rattler_556/DSCN0366_zpscc5b59c5.jpg H&K? What's the price tag on that sombitch? I paid $800 for the rifle... the mags are pricey. The 10rd mag goes for $150-$200 now.
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Posted: 9/23/2014 8:49:14 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is one of the most hideous looking rifles I have ever had the displeasure of seeing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: My father in law is leaving his Remington Woodsmaster model 742 .30-06 4 rd semi auto at my house for awhile so in exchange for babysitting and cleaning it, I get to play with it. So, to the issue. Although it's good looking and has a solid heft, wtf is up with the nearly inoperable charging handle (due to being so small you can only grab it with one finger), the idiotic bolt release, the shotgun safety, and the fuck me sideways retarded magazine release? Again, very nice looking gun. Can't wait to shoot it. But the controls are so tedious it makes me think it's on purpose. Your thoughts? Am I just a young-un that don't know nuffin? Because it's not a H&K SLB 2000. http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y525/Cobra_Rattler_556/DSCN0715_zps6ffc1161.jpg http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y525/Cobra_Rattler_556/DSCN0366_zpscc5b59c5.jpg That is one of the most hideous looking rifles I have ever had the displeasure of seeing. No its not.... you and I both know there is uglier shit out there.
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Posted: 9/23/2014 9:38:48 AM EDT
[#34]
Never been a fan of the Remington semi, Nothing wrong with them, I just prefer the pump versions for hunting. I have two, in .223 and .270. The .270 is so old the B&L scope has adjustments in the scope MOUNT. Accuracy is right up there with a bolt action.
I've been on the lookout for a Remington pump in 243 for a while now. |
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Posted: 9/23/2014 9:56:34 AM EDT
[#35]
I had one of those Remington semi-autos in .30-06.
I bought it from a guy I worked with who was selling it cheap. I sighted it in and shot the biggest deer of my life with it (which ain't saying much...I am not a big hunter). I was always into the guns themselves more than anything else. When I used to deer hunt, I would take 3-4 rifles and switch off carrying them just for the hell of it. All were chambered in .30-06 and all but that one were bolt action. That being said, it didn't pull my chain and I soon sold it. But, it worked for it's intended purpose. I agree that IN MY OPINION, a lot of guns arn't well designed with respect to ergonomics and this includes many, many military rifles and submachine guns. However, I suppose that the designer had some valid reason for doing it the way he did it. It might have simply been easier to manufacture that way, or cheaper to manufacture that way with no regard at all to how well it actually worked out in human hands. One of the things I really like about the AR15 is that again, IMO, it is very ergonomic. The controls that you use frequently can be manipulated without breaking your firing grip on the gun with the exception of the bolt release. Where I live now, an AR10 or AR15 are not legal for deer hunting, otherwise I would probably use one for that purpose; but again, I am not a hard core hunter. And in fact, most years I never hunt at all. |
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Posted: 9/23/2014 9:59:29 AM EDT
[#36]
Fund guns are designed to be carried a lot; not to be shot for an extended number of continuous rounds.
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Posted: 9/23/2014 10:16:19 AM EDT
[#37]
My FIL has that same rifle he just inherited from his father. FIL has not been into shooting much until he got this so I took him to the range with it. I agree it is the most unergonomic rifle I have ever held, and his has an issue with the last round in the mag failing to chamber. It is minute of paper plate at 200, but after about 10 rounds it strings vertically (I know, I know, if you cant kill it with 10 rounds...).
With all that said, his dad has killed truckloads of Deer, Antelope and Elk with that rifle, Including a MN record a-typical buck. |
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Posted: 9/23/2014 10:23:18 AM EDT
[#38]
My savage 110 has had the stock cut down to fit me, i have no problem shooting offhand with it. Its my most comfortable gun to shoot. I don't care for the balance of a synthetic stock.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/23/2014 10:30:58 AM EDT
[#39]
Fudd guns are customized to the end user.
Who needs a 30 round magazine when you get one or maybe two shots at an animal before it takes off. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 1:57:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My 742 will shoot honest 3-shot 3/4" groups at 100 yds with Federal factory ammo. All my life I've heard how "semi-autos aren't accurate"--which makes me smile. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I kind of got into Fudd guns last year. The Savage 340 is my all-time favorite Fudd gun. Over-looked, under-appreciated, side scope mount tack drivers- no matter the caliber. I picked up a 742BDL .30-06, which really started me on Fudd guns. The thing is so accurate, it's like a death ray. In fact, I've retired my M1A and can't bring myself to buy another AR-10 because I like my old Remington better. Also, it's been 100% reliable, which is more than I can say for every AR-10 I've owned. 51.5gr. Varget with 150gr, or 165gr. bullets. My 742 will shoot honest 3-shot 3/4" groups at 100 yds with Federal factory ammo. All my life I've heard how "semi-autos aren't accurate"--which makes me smile. |
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