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Posted: 9/20/2014 10:59:13 AM EDT
Giving it some more thought maybe a bit more discretion is called for.





I'll still let you guys know how it works, still up for a fight if it comes to it.
 
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:01:50 AM EDT
[#1]
Even if it is for an air rifle, isn't that considered a class III item unless it's permanently attached or something like that?
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:03:22 AM EDT
[#2]
Nice
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:03:26 AM EDT
[#3]
In for the win
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:06:22 AM EDT
[#4]
In before OP gets busted for illegal manufacture of a silencer.








Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:07:54 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Even if it is for an air rifle, isn't that considered a class III item unless it's permanently attached or something like that?
View Quote


I am not a lawyer, but I don't think the air rifle is considered a firearm under Federal law. State law might be different.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:14:51 AM EDT
[#6]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Even if it is for an air rifle, isn't that considered a class III item unless it's permanently attached or something like that?
View Quote


Per the ATF



The definition of "firearm silencer” and "firearm muffler” in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(24) provides as follows:



The terms "firearm silencer” and "firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.





If the the ATF wants to try and tell me this is a firearm silencer, bring it on.



 
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:15:04 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I am not a lawyer, but I don't think the air rifle is considered a firearm under Federal law. State law might be different.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Even if it is for an air rifle, isn't that considered a class III item unless it's permanently attached or something like that?


I am not a lawyer, but I don't think the air rifle is considered a firearm under Federal law. State law might be different.


The air rifle isn't the problem (note... IANAL either)...


Airgun silencers: What's the big deal?

by Tom Gaylord
exclusively for PyramydAir.com. © Copyright 2006 All Rights Reserved

In this article, I'll discuss some of the most important points about silencers. The purpose of this report is to give you the information you need to make an informed decision.

The subject of airgun silencers is hotly debated on the airgun forums. There is no agreement about the legality of silencers on airguns in the U.S., and the issue is far more complex than it seems at first.

This is the definition of a silencer contained in U.S. Code, Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, Subsection 922:

(24) The terms "Firearm Silencer" and "Firearm Muffler" mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Further wording in the Code defines the silencer to be a firearm that must be serial-numbered and controlled. The use of a silencer in a crime can add penalties to the punishment for that crime, and the possession of an unregistered or unserial-numbered (i.e., homemade) silencer are both crimes by themselves.

The law
As an American citizen, you may request permission from the federal government to own a silencer. Unlike the right to own firearms, however, owning a silencer is not a right guaranteed under the Constitution. The various states and local municipalities can refuse to agree to your application, leaving you with no recourse. My research at the time I wrote this article turned up the following 36 states that permit the private ownership of silencers: AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD, MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WV, WI and WY. However, just because the STATE allows ownership is no guarantee that the local authorities will agree.

You apply for permission to purchase and own a silencer on ATF Form 4. This is submitted to the National Firearms Act branch of BATF in duplicate, along with two sets of fingerprints from your local police station, two passport photos and a check for $200. Your local chief of police or equivalent law enforcement official is requested to answer two questions on Form 4. If he objects, he does not have to answer the questions and you don't get the silencer - that simple. If there is an appeal process, I was unable to find it.

If you are fortunate enough to get a silencer purchase approved, as I was, then that silencer is yours to use legally for the rest of your life.


Pilot screw-on silencer from Advanced Armament, Inc., is one of the most effective separate .22 rimfire silencers on the market. It drops the sound of a .22 rifle by 41dB.


With the right adapter, the silencer can be attached to almost any .22. This Ruger Mark II pistol is quieter than a Crosman Mark II when the silencer is on.

SO WHAT? We're talking about airguns here!
Yes we are, and most airgunners know that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) has jurisdiction over firearms ONLY. In fact, U.S. Code specifically prohibits any federal, state or local municipality from declaring an airgun to be a firearm. Not only do the federal firearms laws NOT apply to airguns, they CANNOT be applied by law! But that doesn't get us out of the woods.

However...
IF you have an airgun silencer, and IF it can be removed and installed on a firearm, and IF it then quiets that firearm - that silencer meets the legal definition and is subject to the law. However, in the United States, a person is considered innocent until proven guilty, so it is also necessary to prove intent, as in you intended to use the silencer in your possession on a firearm. Therein lies the problem.


At this point, I will cut directly to the chase. When you are tried for owning an illegal silencer, the federal government will vigorously prosecute their case against you. A court case uses a lot of resources, and they don't like to lose. The decision usually comes down to the judge after both sides have presented their case. You probably know that there are some judges who see their duty as interpreting the law, and there are other activist judges who see their duty as rectifying the current social situation - "putting things right," as it were. If you happen to draw the latter kind of judge, the outcome could be devastating. Even if you do happen to win, the time, money and heartache of preparing for a trial isn't pleasant for most people.


http://www.pyramydair.com/article/Airgun_silencers_What_s_the_big_deal_August_2006/32

Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:16:22 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I am not a lawyer, but I don't think the air rifle is considered a firearm under Federal law. State law might be different.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Even if it is for an air rifle, isn't that considered a class III item unless it's permanently attached or something like that?


I am not a lawyer, but I don't think the air rifle is considered a firearm under Federal law. State law might be different.


The question is not whether it an airgun is a firearm, the question is whether the device is a:

Muffler or silencer. Any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.


If the BATFE can make it work on a firearm, even once, it was the illegal manufacture of a silencer or muffler, if not accompanied by a Form 1 and NFA tax stamp.

See post above.

To the OP, I'd delete everything, deny everything, hide your dog, pepper your angus, and spend the next week watching for MRAPs and Black Helicopters.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:17:41 AM EDT
[#9]
so he perm attaches it, its not a big deal. This is not the first time this has been done. OP I would go with something along the lines of the OSS system
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:18:21 AM EDT
[#10]
Not smart. Not smart at all...don't poke the bear.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:18:33 AM EDT
[#11]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Per the ATF





The definition of "firearm silencer” and "firearm muffler” in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(24) provides as follows:





The terms "firearm silencer” and "firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
If the the ATF wants to try and tell me this is a firearm silencer, bring it on.


 
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





Quoted:


Even if it is for an air rifle, isn't that considered a class III item unless it's permanently attached or something like that?



Per the ATF





The definition of "firearm silencer” and "firearm muffler” in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(24) provides as follows:





The terms "firearm silencer” and "firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
If the the ATF wants to try and tell me this is a firearm silencer, bring it on.


 





 

Just remember this is the same ATF that:


1. Ruled that a shoe-sting was a machine gun (IIRC they eventually reversed that decision)


2. Will bust you for an illegal machine gun if you have a slam-fire due to a malfuction.

 
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:20:45 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Even if it is for an air rifle, isn't that considered a class III item unless it's permanently attached or something like that?
View Quote

This.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:22:32 AM EDT
[#13]
I want to see this finished badly. On the flip side, you gonna get raped.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:23:11 AM EDT
[#14]



...





Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:26:11 AM EDT
[#15]
I know op is right and its legal , but that doesn't mean the all the powers that be will know that . i think also it being removeable and having other firearms in the house may complicate it .  Do you plan to perm attach it to the airgun?  Do you think ATF will care if they see removeable silencer and also see you have a old .22 bolt action in the house?

i would still prepare anus and hide the dag .
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:27:31 AM EDT
[#16]
Sounds like if it's permanently attached you're good.

Cool project, OP.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:29:19 AM EDT
[#17]
Wow it's early and already so much in this thread.











Anyway, let's see how this turns out and if it makes any difference in the air gun..

 
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:32:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The air rifle isn't the problem (note... IANAL either)...




http://www.pyramydair.com/article/Airgun_silencers_What_s_the_big_deal_August_2006/32

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Even if it is for an air rifle, isn't that considered a class III item unless it's permanently attached or something like that?


I am not a lawyer, but I don't think the air rifle is considered a firearm under Federal law. State law might be different.


The air rifle isn't the problem (note... IANAL either)...


Airgun silencers: What's the big deal?

by Tom Gaylord
exclusively for PyramydAir.com. © Copyright 2006 All Rights Reserved

In this article, I'll discuss some of the most important points about silencers. The purpose of this report is to give you the information you need to make an informed decision.

The subject of airgun silencers is hotly debated on the airgun forums. There is no agreement about the legality of silencers on airguns in the U.S., and the issue is far more complex than it seems at first.

This is the definition of a silencer contained in U.S. Code, Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, Subsection 922:

(24) The terms "Firearm Silencer" and "Firearm Muffler" mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Further wording in the Code defines the silencer to be a firearm that must be serial-numbered and controlled. The use of a silencer in a crime can add penalties to the punishment for that crime, and the possession of an unregistered or unserial-numbered (i.e., homemade) silencer are both crimes by themselves.

The law
As an American citizen, you may request permission from the federal government to own a silencer. Unlike the right to own firearms, however, owning a silencer is not a right guaranteed under the Constitution. The various states and local municipalities can refuse to agree to your application, leaving you with no recourse. My research at the time I wrote this article turned up the following 36 states that permit the private ownership of silencers: AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD, MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WV, WI and WY. However, just because the STATE allows ownership is no guarantee that the local authorities will agree.

You apply for permission to purchase and own a silencer on ATF Form 4. This is submitted to the National Firearms Act branch of BATF in duplicate, along with two sets of fingerprints from your local police station, two passport photos and a check for $200. Your local chief of police or equivalent law enforcement official is requested to answer two questions on Form 4. If he objects, he does not have to answer the questions and you don't get the silencer - that simple. If there is an appeal process, I was unable to find it.

If you are fortunate enough to get a silencer purchase approved, as I was, then that silencer is yours to use legally for the rest of your life.


Pilot screw-on silencer from Advanced Armament, Inc., is one of the most effective separate .22 rimfire silencers on the market. It drops the sound of a .22 rifle by 41dB.


With the right adapter, the silencer can be attached to almost any .22. This Ruger Mark II pistol is quieter than a Crosman Mark II when the silencer is on.

SO WHAT? We're talking about airguns here!
Yes we are, and most airgunners know that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) has jurisdiction over firearms ONLY. In fact, U.S. Code specifically prohibits any federal, state or local municipality from declaring an airgun to be a firearm. Not only do the federal firearms laws NOT apply to airguns, they CANNOT be applied by law! But that doesn't get us out of the woods.

However...
IF you have an airgun silencer, and IF it can be removed and installed on a firearm, and IF it then quiets that firearm - that silencer meets the legal definition and is subject to the law. However, in the United States, a person is considered innocent until proven guilty, so it is also necessary to prove intent, as in you intended to use the silencer in your possession on a firearm. Therein lies the problem.


At this point, I will cut directly to the chase. When you are tried for owning an illegal silencer, the federal government will vigorously prosecute their case against you. A court case uses a lot of resources, and they don't like to lose. The decision usually comes down to the judge after both sides have presented their case. You probably know that there are some judges who see their duty as interpreting the law, and there are other activist judges who see their duty as rectifying the current social situation - "putting things right," as it were. If you happen to draw the latter kind of judge, the outcome could be devastating. Even if you do happen to win, the time, money and heartache of preparing for a trial isn't pleasant for most people.


http://www.pyramydair.com/article/Airgun_silencers_What_s_the_big_deal_August_2006/32





Lawlaurz.

The design we are looking at is a slip fit with a set screw, and is made out of extruded plastic.  I'm not sure.of the material but I would.guess abs or pla.  

If the Atf wanted to go fullretard on the op they would have to prove that it would suppress the report of an actual firearm.  So they will have to find a rifle that the suppressor could slip over the barrel, and  both remain on the barrel and not explode upon firinging.

Depending on the material used and how it is layed it might last a shot or two before exploding from the pressure, but the slipfit, set screw is just asking for a baffle strike.  

This would in no way work for an actual firearm
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:35:08 AM EDT
[#19]
tag for results
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:45:17 AM EDT
[#20]
Just do it OP.

There is some common sense in this thread two posts up.  A single round of .22 would turn the daisy device into a 100 pc. jigsaw puzzle.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:47:09 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Lawlaurz.

The design we are looking at is a slip fit with a set screw, and is made out of extruded plastic.  I'm not sure.of the material but I would.guess abs or pla.  

If the Atf wanted to go fullretard on the op they would have to prove that it would suppress the report of an actual firearm.  So they will have to find a rifle that the suppressor could slip over the barrel, and  both remain on the barrel and not explode upon firinging.

Depending on the material used and how it is layed it might last a shot or two before exploding from the pressure, but the slipfit, set screw is just asking for a baffle strike.  

This would in no way work for an actual firearm
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Lawlaurz.

The design we are looking at is a slip fit with a set screw, and is made out of extruded plastic.  I'm not sure.of the material but I would.guess abs or pla.  

If the Atf wanted to go fullretard on the op they would have to prove that it would suppress the report of an actual firearm.  So they will have to find a rifle that the suppressor could slip over the barrel, and  both remain on the barrel and not explode upon firinging.

Depending on the material used and how it is layed it might last a shot or two before exploding from the pressure, but the slipfit, set screw is just asking for a baffle strike.  

This would in no way work for an actual firearm


It's a roll of the dice at least...

Note Added 3 April 2006 - America's first airgun silencer case!:
We now have America's first case of a person to be criminally charged in Federal Court with possessing an airgun silencer as a "firearm silencer". Because of other commitments, I had to decline a request to serve as an expert witness in this airgun silencer case, but I think that I should bring some of the details to the attention of airgunners everywhere.  The defendant is now imprisoned in Connecticut's  MacDougall Correctional Facility and has been in jail since his arrest on June 24, 2004 - almost four years as of this date - and pretrial proceedings are still ongoing!!    

In x-raying postal packages for dangerous materials, the federal authorities detected the defendant's legally owned .44 caliber Sam Yang pneumatic rifle - not even one of the infamous black guns. A warrant allowed Postal Inspectors to search the package and they found a "sound moderator" in a pocket of the case for this airgun.  There were no aggravating circumstances and no evidence that violence of any kind was intended or involved. This device had been specifically built for use on a Sam Yang air rifle and was specially built with fabric insides so that it would be destroyed by use on a firearm. The manufacturer wrote that "It was made for AIR only. It cannot handle the flash of a firearm." However, the ATF laboratory tested it on a Ruger .22 firearm - and it did reduce the sound for one shot - thus meeting the definition of a firearm silencer. Again, that one shot could be killing a president, the Pope, or even Ted Kennedy!

There is the real concern that a judge or jury might not understand any need for a silencer on a "mere, already quiet" airgun and claim that the defendant was using an air rifle "to disguise the shipment of a real live firearm silencer!" The defendant claims that while some state statutes refer to the test of capability of a device to silence a firearm, the federal regulations may depend on the intent of the making of the device.  However, a New Haven Federal Court (United States vs. Alpha McQuinn) actually had a conviction for use of a potato on the end of a pistol barrel during a drug robbery.  The AUSA argued that it "wasn't there to make French Fries".  The new paintball silencer ruling, that I mentioned above, does not depend on the word "capable" but does consider "intention" to use the device as a firearm silencer  They even noted that intending to destroy the attached paintball gun to get the silencer would be an "evil intention"! Try proving that your intentions were good!

So, a great deal of legal effort (= a great deal of time and money) may get around the capability definer in this case, but the defense will still have to deal with the intention and the one-shot test. Personally, I think that he should be found innocent of the silencer charge and, fortunately for the defendant, he may be released on the basis of evidence being improperly obtained - so, we may end up without having a clear ruling - even on airgun silencers with fabric/fiber insides! (But see the progress report below - he was sent away for 15 years and there is an effort to extend that to 22 years!)

What this case does prove is that we are in even greater danger of having arrests and convictions concerning airgun silencers.  The radar is coming closer -the increasingly paranoid authorities obviously are now beginning to be concerned about these devices -and were willing to make an arrest based on a silencer designed for an airgun - complete with the specification that use on a firearm would destroy it!  Combine this with the previous note from the authorities that intending to destroy an airgun to which a silencer is attached, so that this "sinister device" may be used on a firearm, is an "evil intention".

The precedent of the above arrest will not be lost on future officers who may be more careful of how the evidence, against YOU, is obtained. Remember, it only takes ONE rigid-minded officer to arrest YOU! (So what if 99.9% of the tens of thousands of officers would not have made your arrest?)  While YOU MAY get out, your release will not signal that airgun silencers are okay and does four years in jail and hundreds of thousands of dollars of legal expenses sound like it was worth the tiny advantage of having an airgun silencer??

Some of you readers think that I am just paranoid about the airgun silencer issue. Well, pay attention to the real world:  Here are some very interesting notes from Tom Gaylord, probably the best, and certainly the most prolific, airgun writer that world has ever seen.  These are copies from his outstanding airgun blog at http://www.airgunwriter.com/blog/blog.htm  (You should also check out another of his blogs at http://remembering-when.blogspot.com/ )


FRIDAY, JULY 07, 2006
Update on the airgun silencer issue
by Tom Gaylord
For more than 10 years I have been advising U.S. airgunners to go easy on installing silencers on their guns. I have recently written an article that addresses the specifics of the law governing silencers for Pyramyd Air, but it isn't up on their website as of the date of this posting. They are extremely busy with the buyout of Airgun Express and I think that will dominate their work for many more weeks, but when that silencer article does go up, it will walk you through the law and how I view it.
Many of you know that I bought a legal firearm silencer to write about the process for Shotgun News. That article was published last year, as part of my "What Can You Do With a 10/22?" series.
I get calls from federal and state law enforcement agencies from time to time regarding airgun laws and various technical aspects of the guns, themselves. A few months ago, I was called regarding a felon who had shipped a big bore airgun with a removable silencer through the mail. I'm now following the court case as it unfolds in Massachusetts. As I've always said, I prefer to learn about the law through news agencies rather than from the defendant's table!

SUNDAY, JULY 16, 2006
He's going to jail!
by Tom Gaylord
Michael A. Crooker was found guilty on Wednesday, July 15, 2006 of illegally manufacturing a silencer. He faces a mandatory sentence of 15 years. (Latest flash, July 2007, review of the case, instead of throwing it out,  may increase penalties up to 22 years!!).

Crooker made a silencer for a Korean Big Bore 909, a .45 caliber air rifle. In 2004 he sold the rifle and silencer to another party and he shipped it through the U.S. Postal Service, where it was intercepted.
When ATF tested the silencer on a firearm, it silenced the report. That is the legal definition of a silencer. Slam dunk.
Making a silencer is a violation of several counts of the same law. Because a silencer is considered to be a firearm by federal law, the maker has just made a firearm without a license to manufacture - count one. Firearms that are sold are required to have serial numbers, and this one didn't - count two. And possession of an unregistered silencer is also a crime - count three.
The jury did ask for additional clarification on what constitutes a silencer, but the judge was unable to give them anything beyond the law. I have written an article about silencers for Pyramyd Air. It should be up on their web site soon. I included the definition of a silencer in that article, so you can read it for yourself. When it goes up, this is where it will be:
For 12 years I have maintained that silencers and airguns do not mix. People who play with the law open themselves to prosecution. Even if you win your case, the experience will not be pleasant. Now that BATF has a win under their belts, I expect them to prosecute other silencer violations more vigorously.
This was a jury trial.


http://www.beemans.net/silencers_on_airguns.htm



Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:50:21 AM EDT
[#22]
awesome thread, cannot wait to see how it turns out.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 11:52:06 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:









Lawlaurz.

The design we are looking at is a slip fit with a set screw, and is made out of extruded plastic.  I'm not sure.of the material but I would.guess abs or pla.  

If the Atf wanted to go fullretard on the op they would have to prove that it would suppress the report of an actual firearm.  So they will have to find a rifle that the suppressor could slip over the barrel, and  both remain on the barrel and not explode upon firinging.

Depending on the material used and how it is layed it might last a shot or two before exploding from the pressure, but the slipfit, set screw is just asking for a baffle strike.  

This would in no way work for an actual firearm
View Quote






Blast from the past...









Link Posted: 9/20/2014 12:12:57 PM EDT
[#24]
One other thing to keep in mind is this is about as far removed from the commerce clause as you can reasonably get.




Link Posted: 9/20/2014 12:50:57 PM EDT
[#25]
I remember reading about this case last year. If memory serves the conviction was overturned. If made for an airgun it is legal according to the court in that circuit. It was never appealed by ATF.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 12:53:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Eject OP.  Eject now!!!
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 1:02:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
so he perm attaches it, its not a big deal. This is not the first time this has been done. OP I would go with something along the lines of the OSS system
View Quote


He'll have a hard time doing that. If I was OP, I'd cancel that print, crush that & redesign that silencer so the "blast chamber" and much of the body is pre-fragmented so it would intentionally self-destruct if ever used on a firearm.
That's the only way I can think of to try to bring that into compliance, and even then he might have trouble. Big trouble.

Or just get a stamp for a form 1 can, and make whatever he wants.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 1:17:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Its so hysterical how pussy most of you guys are. Cool project OP, cant wait to see how it turns out!
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 1:49:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Its so hysterical how pussy most of you guys are. Cool project OP, cant wait to see how it turns out!
View Quote


You apparently don't have any idea how serious it is to get charged for an NFA violation. It'll fuck your life up even if you manage to stay out of jail. It isn't something to fuck around with.
Is it pussy to try to help somebody not go to jail for something the ATF has & will put people in jail for in the past? 3d printed suppressors are very strong. I'll bet that would survive many shots on a 17 WMR & work pretty well. The baffle design isn't terrible.

Here is a video of a legal form 1 3d printed .22 silencer that has been going fine for more than 1k rounds. (not mine)  OPs design looks at least as strong.



Link Posted: 9/20/2014 1:56:47 PM EDT
[#30]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You apparently don't have any idea how serious it is to get charged for an NFA violation. It'll fuck your life up even if you manage to stay out of jail. It isn't something to fuck around with.

Is it pussy to try to help somebody not go to jail for something the ATF has & will put people in jail for in the past?
3d printed suppressors are very strong. I'll bet that would survive many shots on a 17 WMR & work pretty well. The baffle design isn't terrible.



Here is a video of a legal form 1 3d printed .22 silencer that has been going fine for more than 1k rounds. (not mine)  OPs design looks at least as strong.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9BMTu3DKIs



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Quoted:



Quoted:

Its so hysterical how pussy most of you guys are. Cool project OP, cant wait to see how it turns out!




You apparently don't have any idea how serious it is to get charged for an NFA violation. It'll fuck your life up even if you manage to stay out of jail. It isn't something to fuck around with.

Is it pussy to try to help somebody not go to jail for something the ATF has & will put people in jail for in the past?
3d printed suppressors are very strong. I'll bet that would survive many shots on a 17 WMR & work pretty well. The baffle design isn't terrible.



Here is a video of a legal form 1 3d printed .22 silencer that has been going fine for more than 1k rounds. (not mine)  OPs design looks at least as strong.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9BMTu3DKIs







 
This. We all think it's cool and would love to see the idea materialize, we just don't want to see the ATF try and split hairs with the OP over if a 3D printed silencer is legal or not.




Remember the stink over Sig's muzzle break?
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 2:04:39 PM EDT
[#31]
nice project.

But

Public posting.

Someone already burned...15yrs.

Not worth going any further than design
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 2:05:58 PM EDT
[#32]

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Quoted:


One other thing to keep in mind is this is about as far removed from the commerce clause as you can reasonably get.



View Quote




 
Kind of like growing wheat on your own property for personal consumption?  







Link Posted: 9/20/2014 2:12:49 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

  This. We all think it's cool and would love to see the idea materialize, we just don't want to see the ATF try and split hairs with the OP over if a 3D printed silencer is legal or not.


Remember the stink over Sig's muzzle break?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its so hysterical how pussy most of you guys are. Cool project OP, cant wait to see how it turns out!


You apparently don't have any idea how serious it is to get charged for an NFA violation. It'll fuck your life up even if you manage to stay out of jail. It isn't something to fuck around with.
Is it pussy to try to help somebody not go to jail for something the ATF has & will put people in jail for in the past?
3d printed suppressors are very strong. I'll bet that would survive many shots on a 17 WMR & work pretty well. The baffle design isn't terrible.

Here is a video of a legal form 1 3d printed .22 silencer that has been going fine for more than 1k rounds. (not mine)  OPs design looks at least as strong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9BMTu3DKIs


  This. We all think it's cool and would love to see the idea materialize, we just don't want to see the ATF try and split hairs with the OP over if a 3D printed silencer is legal or not.


Remember the stink over Sig's muzzle break?


The ATF also has a history of going out of their way to make something function (or malfunction), to their advantage.

It's probably safe to say that somewhere in their vast collection of firearms samples, they have at least  a few small caliber, obscure guns they could
attach by other means (epoxy, duct tape, etc), a DIY 3D printed suppressor (for an air rifle or not), and get a few successful rounds off
(it would only take one), before it fails.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 2:16:38 PM EDT
[#34]
He's not making a "silencer".  It is obvious to me that he is making a LDC = Lead Dust Collector.  That is very serious for us folks who shoot airguns a lot.  With the damage it is doing to the environment, why would airgunners want it in their lungs, or on their skin?



Eric  
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 2:16:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The ATF also has a history of going out of their way to make something function (or malfunction), to their advantage.

View Quote



Link Posted: 9/20/2014 2:20:48 PM EDT
[#36]

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Quoted:



Quoted:





The ATF also has a history of going out of their way to make something function (or malfunction), to their advantage.







http://www.shoestringrecords.tv/shoestringgraphics/Newlogosmallest.jpg





You wouldn't be referring to this........







 
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 2:23:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
He's not making a "silencer".  It is obvious to me that he is making a LDC = Lead Dust Collector.  That is very serious for us folks who shoot airguns a lot.  With the damage it is doing to the environment, why would airgunners want it in their lungs, or on their skin?

Eric  
View Quote


Yeah. That's a great defense strategy. You outsmarted them.
I heard you can put them on your 1/1 scale 100% accurate machinegun models made with original-style materials.

See how the case cited above worked out with the Career 9mm airgun & "not a silencer."
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 3:00:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Keep at it, OP.
Sheep be damned.

Best,
JBR
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 3:05:22 PM EDT
[#39]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You apparently don't have any idea how serious it is to get charged for an NFA violation. It'll fuck your life up even if you manage to stay out of jail. It isn't something to fuck around with.

Is it pussy to try to help somebody not go to jail for something the ATF has & will put people in jail for in the past? 3d printed suppressors are very strong. I'll bet that would survive many shots on a 17 WMR & work pretty well. The baffle design isn't terrible.



Here is a video of a legal form 1 3d printed .22 silencer that has been going fine for more than 1k rounds. (not mine)  OPs design looks at least as strong.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9BMTu3DKIs



View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

Its so hysterical how pussy most of you guys are. Cool project OP, cant wait to see how it turns out!




You apparently don't have any idea how serious it is to get charged for an NFA violation. It'll fuck your life up even if you manage to stay out of jail. It isn't something to fuck around with.

Is it pussy to try to help somebody not go to jail for something the ATF has & will put people in jail for in the past? 3d printed suppressors are very strong. I'll bet that would survive many shots on a 17 WMR & work pretty well. The baffle design isn't terrible.



Here is a video of a legal form 1 3d printed .22 silencer that has been going fine for more than 1k rounds. (not mine)  OPs design looks at least as strong.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9BMTu3DKIs



That looks familiar...



 
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 3:26:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That looks familiar...
 
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its so hysterical how pussy most of you guys are. Cool project OP, cant wait to see how it turns out!


You apparently don't have any idea how serious it is to get charged for an NFA violation. It'll fuck your life up even if you manage to stay out of jail. It isn't something to fuck around with.
Is it pussy to try to help somebody not go to jail for something the ATF has & will put people in jail for in the past? 3d printed suppressors are very strong. I'll bet that would survive many shots on a 17 WMR & work pretty well. The baffle design isn't terrible.

Here is a video of a legal form 1 3d printed .22 silencer that has been going fine for more than 1k rounds. (not mine)  OPs design looks at least as strong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9BMTu3DKIs

That looks familiar...
 


Is it yours? Well then, you know exactly what you're getting into.
Good luck, and nice .22lr design.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 6:06:14 PM EDT
[#41]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yeah. That's a great defense strategy. You outsmarted them.

I heard you can put them on your 1/1 scale 100% accurate machinegun models made with original-style materials.



See how the case cited above worked out with the Career 9mm airgun & "not a silencer."
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

He's not making a "silencer".  It is obvious to me that he is making a LDC = Lead Dust Collector.  That is very serious for us folks who shoot airguns a lot.  With the damage it is doing to the environment, why would airgunners want it in their lungs, or on their skin?



Eric  




Yeah. That's a great defense strategy. You outsmarted them.

I heard you can put them on your 1/1 scale 100% accurate machinegun models made with original-style materials.



See how the case cited above worked out with the Career 9mm airgun & "not a silencer."


There was a lot more behind the Career 9mm airgun story then just a LDC mounted to an airgun.  



If you want to start warning folks, head over here and just peruse their inventory.  It will make your head explode!

http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/



Eric  
 
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 6:11:39 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

There was a lot more behind the Career 9mm airgun story then just a LDC mounted to an airgun.  

If you want to start warning folks, head over here and just peruse their inventory.  It will make your head explode!
http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/

Eric  


 
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
He's not making a "silencer".  It is obvious to me that he is making a LDC = Lead Dust Collector.  That is very serious for us folks who shoot airguns a lot.  With the damage it is doing to the environment, why would airgunners want it in their lungs, or on their skin?

Eric  


Yeah. That's a great defense strategy. You outsmarted them.
I heard you can put them on your 1/1 scale 100% accurate machinegun models made with original-style materials.

See how the case cited above worked out with the Career 9mm airgun & "not a silencer."

There was a lot more behind the Career 9mm airgun story then just a LDC mounted to an airgun.  

If you want to start warning folks, head over here and just peruse their inventory.  It will make your head explode!
http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/

Eric  


 


I have 3 PCPs. (factory integrally suppressed, permanently attached.) I know all about "lead dust collectors." I also have plenty of tax stamps for silencers. If it was up to me, they wouldn't be required, but they are. That's why I don't have any "lead dust collectors."

But you know what you're doing.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 10:53:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Here you go:




He's sold these for YEARS.  




But you know better.




Eric.






Link Posted: 9/21/2014 5:22:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Is it done yet
Link Posted: 9/24/2014 9:35:09 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Here you go:http://www.tko22.com/index.html


He's sold these for YEARS.  

But you know better.

Eric.


View Quote


So did the Pre 81 auto sear guy. His ads were in Shotgun News for more than 20 years before he went to prison. Do whatever you want.
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