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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:16:52 PM EDT
[#1]
It was for the children. What's your point?
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:18:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Dupe
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:25:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was for the children. What's your point? I don't know the answer to this issue, but if your convictions get tossed nobody but the criminals win in the end. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:28:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The point just maybe it got tossed? So how much good did it do the children? I don't know the answer to this issue, but if your convictions get tossed nobody but the criminals win in the end. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It was for the children. What's your point? I don't know the answer to this issue, but if your convictions get tossed nobody but the criminals win in the end. Actually if a conviction gets tossed because the government acted illegally then the rule of law wins. 
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:30:28 PM EDT
[#6]
It seems to me that kiddie porn laws are big.gov's most powerful weapon to rid itself of those it deems undesirable. How much easier can it be to lock someone up for a decade or two than drop a file onto his laptop?
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:32:14 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It seems to me that kiddie porn laws are big.gov's most powerful weapon to rid itself of those it deems undesirable. How much easier can it be to lock someone up for a decade or two than drop a file onto his laptop? We have been speculating about that here for a while now. I think you are right. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:34:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually if a conviction gets tossed because the government acted illegally then the rule of law wins. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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It was for the children. What's your point? I don't know the answer to this issue, but if your convictions get tossed nobody but the criminals win in the end. Actually if a conviction gets tossed because the government acted illegally then the rule of law wins. Would it be justice if, say, in business I burgled my competitor's office to steal technical secrets and get the jump on them to acquire a patent... and the only penalty for getting caught was that I lost the patent? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:43:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would it be justice if, say, in business I burgled my competitor's office to steal technical secrets and get the jump on them to acquire a patent... and the only penalty for getting caught was that I lost the patent? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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It was for the children. What's your point? I don't know the answer to this issue, but if your convictions get tossed nobody but the criminals win in the end. Actually if a conviction gets tossed because the government acted illegally then the rule of law wins. Would it be justice if, say, in business I burgled my competitor's office to steal technical secrets and get the jump on them to acquire a patent... and the only penalty for getting caught was that I lost the patent? Throwing out the rule of law just because we don't like the actions that got stopped isn't a good news story for anyone. It's easy to be a fair weather fan of the Constitution. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:45:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Throwing out the rule of law just because we don't like the actions that got stopped isn't a good news story for anyone. It's easy to be a fair weather fan of the Constitution. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Quoted:
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It was for the children. What's your point? I don't know the answer to this issue, but if your convictions get tossed nobody but the criminals win in the end. Actually if a conviction gets tossed because the government acted illegally then the rule of law wins. Would it be justice if, say, in business I burgled my competitor's office to steal technical secrets and get the jump on them to acquire a patent... and the only penalty for getting caught was that I lost the patent? Throwing out the rule of law just because we don't like the actions that got stopped isn't a good news story for anyone. It's easy to be a fair weather fan of the Constitution. The prescribed punishment for deprivation of civil rights by agents of the Federal government is established in law. If we had the rule of law, everyone involved would be prosecuted according to that law. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:51:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryNot doing OP's job for him. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:59:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would it be justice if, say, in business I burgled my competitor's office to steal technical secrets and get the jump on them to acquire a patent... and the only penalty for getting caught was that I lost the patent? I guess one could ask "is it acceptable for the government to achieve the goal of imprisoning a criminal even if the government must ignore the Constitution and existing laws to do so?" ... but I suspect that would be pointless in this case. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:07:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The prescribed punishment for deprivation of civil rights by agents of the Federal government is established in law. If we had the rule of law, everyone involved would be prosecuted according to that law. I wasn't tracking you. Yes, the agents, their supervisors, and the folks that approved the process should be punished in some manner for this. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:07:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not doing OP's job for him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not doing OP's job for him. Then maybe you shouldn't just run in and be unhelpful just running in and yelling dupe. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:08:56 PM EDT
[#15]
In every episode.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:10:39 PM EDT
[#16]
NCIS is not the military
They are DoN civilians - akin to FBI |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:10:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Of course; Abby's an inkie.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:10:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We have been speculating about that here for a while now. I think you are right. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It seems to me that kiddie porn laws are big.gov's most powerful weapon to rid itself of those it deems undesirable. How much easier can it be to lock someone up for a decade or two than drop a file onto his laptop? We have been speculating about that here for a while now. I think you are right. as a IT nerd I wonder how much juries know about what consists of "chain of custody " with said computer evidence |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:17:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NCIS is not the military They are DoN civilians - akin to FBI For starters are all NCIS agents civilians? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:27:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For starters are all NCIS agents civilians? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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NCIS is not the military They are DoN civilians - akin to FBI For starters are all NCIS agents civilians? In 24 years, I've never seen one wearig a uniform. All of the agents who work with or for me are civies, on and off ship. http://www.ncis.navy.mil/Pages/publicdefault.aspx |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:28:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For starters are all NCIS agents civilians? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:29:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In 24 years, I've never seen one wearig a uniform. All of the agents who work with or for me are civies, on and off ship. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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NCIS is not the military They are DoN civilians - akin to FBI For starters are all NCIS agents civilians? In 24 years, I've never seen one wearig a uniform. All of the agents who work with or for me are civies, on and off ship. They are DoD (.mil) even if they are civies. 95% of DIA is civilian, if they use their skills against US citizens, Posse Comitatus violation. Still applies. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:30:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I submit that's the wrong starting point. The question should be "for starters, is the NCIS a part of the military?" The answer is "yes." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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For starters are all NCIS agents civilians? Is the Coast Guard? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:32:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Once I read that it was a 9th Circus decision I made my mind up.
I don't have an issue with what happened. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:33:51 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is the Coast Guard? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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For starters are all NCIS agents civilians? Is the Coast Guard? Most of the time no, they are part of the Department Homeland Security. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:34:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In 24 years, I've never seen one wearig a uniform. All of the agents who work with or for me are civies, on and off ship. http://www.ncis.navy.mil/Pages/publicdefault.aspx Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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NCIS is not the military They are DoN civilians - akin to FBI For starters are all NCIS agents civilians? In 24 years, I've never seen one wearig a uniform. All of the agents who work with or for me are civies, on and off ship. http://www.ncis.navy.mil/Pages/publicdefault.aspx I did some looking myself after I asked and was a little floored by the answer. AFOSI is a mix of civilian, officer, and enlisted so I kind of presumed that the same would be true across the branches. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:36:05 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is the Coast Guard? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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For starters are all NCIS agents civilians? Let me Google that for you. Answer: Yes. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:37:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s325.photobucket.com/user/smlnbndt/media/Forum%20Posts/wikipedian_protester_zps77d7beac.png.html" target="_blank">http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k397/smlnbndt/Forum%20Posts/wikipedian_protester_zps77d7beac.png</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Dupe <a href="http://s325.photobucket.com/user/smlnbndt/media/Forum%20Posts/wikipedian_protester_zps77d7beac.png.html" target="_blank">http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k397/smlnbndt/Forum%20Posts/wikipedian_protester_zps77d7beac.png</a> It is a dupe but the other thread was full of illiterate/ignorant statements and InfoWars, it should be left dead. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:37:28 PM EDT
[#29]
When do the criminal prosecutions of these NCIS shit heels begin?
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:39:49 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In 24 years, I've never seen one wearig a uniform. All of the agents who work with or for me are civies, on and off ship. http://www.ncis.navy.mil/Pages/publicdefault.aspx Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
NCIS is not the military They are DoN civilians - akin to FBI For starters are all NCIS agents civilians? In 24 years, I've never seen one wearig a uniform. All of the agents who work with or for me are civies, on and off ship. http://www.ncis.navy.mil/Pages/publicdefault.aspx Doesn't matter if they are civilian or not. They work with and for the .mil. Their job is to investigate crimes committed by/in the military. Was not the case in this matter. While I HATE child molesters and child porn peddlers and wish the punishment was harsher for those crimes, it is not the military's place to investigate civilians for civilian crimes. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:40:31 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NCIS is not the military They are DoN civilians - akin to FBI Personnel wise they are civilians but they are a part of the Navy and their jurisdiction is like that of AF OSI and CID. While they may be federal agents they don't have the authority that TV show makes them out to actually have. ETA: Where he really screwed up was obtaining the warrant for the guy's information. All he should have done, no matter the crime, is call the FBI and tell them what he found. Then its in civilian hands and he doesn't have to worry about it. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:41:48 PM EDT
[#32]
U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman allowed the videos to be used and Dreyer was convicted of possession and distribution of child pornography after a four-day jury trial in September 2012. This sounds like she just decided what she wanted to hear, rather than what the rule of law allowed her to hear. This is exactly the kind of judicial activism that needs to be crushed. Though I don't understand the point of that particular law in this application... ETA: Now that I finished the article, I do understand the point. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:45:20 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We have been speculating about that here for a while now. I think you are right. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It seems to me that kiddie porn laws are big.gov's most powerful weapon to rid itself of those it deems undesirable. How much easier can it be to lock someone up for a decade or two than drop a file onto his laptop? We have been speculating about that here for a while now. I think you are right. Agreed. It's a quick and easy way to vilify someone. And when most people hear kiddy porn they automatically just assume guilt. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:46:05 PM EDT
[#34]
That fucking Dinozzo
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:46:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once I read that it was a 9th Circus decision I made my mind up. I don't have an issue with what happened. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once I read that it was a 9th Circus decision I made my mind up. I don't have an issue with what happened. You, Justice23, would side with law enforcement based on a totally minimal understanding of what happened, to the point you don't even understand what happened? Well color me fucking shocked. From the article: “Such an expansive reading of the military role in the enforcement of civilian laws demonstrates a profound lack of regard for the important limitations on the role of the military in our civilian society,” wrote Judge Marsha Berzon.
Logan, the NCIS agent, had argued he had chosen to scan computers in Washington partly because of the state’s many military bases. While he initially was only able to identify the suspect’s whereabouts within a 30-mile radius of the IP address he identified, he wrote in a search warrant that the “large [U.S. Navy/Department of Defense] saturation” indicated a “likelihood” the suspect was in the military. By that logic, Berzon said, Posse Comitatus would be “rendered meaningless.” “To accept that position would mean that NCIS agents could, for example, routinely stop suspected drunk drivers in downtown Seattle on the off-chance that a driver is a member of the military, and then turn over all information collected about civilians to the Seattle Police Department for prosecution.” NCIS is claiming they can basically search any broad geographical area that could have military members in it using military rules and then refer those results to civilian prosecutors, who may not be bound by the same rules. This is unacceptable under the rules our government is bound to operate under. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:47:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most of the time no, they are part of the Department Homeland Security. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: For starters are all NCIS agents civilians? Is the Coast Guard? Most of the time no, they are part of the Department Homeland Security. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:49:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Twelve seasons, 10 of which it was the most watched show. Almost every show this shit goes on, and the audience applauds it. Child porn, and how many wouldn't applaud it?
They did what they thought they could get away with. Why would they think otherwise? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:51:08 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
In more than one state - http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2024565988_navyporn1xml.html |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:52:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know the answer to this issue, but if your convictions get tossed nobody but the criminals win in the end. The thing is, there really isn't an alternative for the exclusionary rule. It's all been tried. I mean, what are your options? 1. Let the government prosecute 4th Amendment violations. Doesn't do jack. Government doesn't investigate itself well at all. See Lois Learner. 2. Civil cause of action. Doesn't work. Juries don't like criminals and don't award them money. Exclusionary rule is the only way to keep the government in line. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:56:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It seems to me that kiddie porn laws are big.gov's most powerful weapon to rid itself of those it deems undesirable. How much easier can it be to lock someone up for a decade or two than drop a file onto his laptop? 
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:57:11 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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For starters are all NCIS agents civilians? Let me Google that for you. Answer: Yes. The U.S. Coast Guard is one of the five armed forces of the United States and the only military organization within the Department of Homeland Security. So, does Posse Commitatus apply to them or not? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:58:36 PM EDT
[#42]
NCIS is searching for civilian criminals? Why????
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:58:39 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually if a conviction gets tossed because the government acted illegally then the rule of law wins. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It was for the children. What's your point? I don't know the answer to this issue, but if your convictions get tossed nobody but the criminals win in the end. Actually if a conviction gets tossed because the government acted illegally then the rule of law wins. My point was make the case within the rule of law. And put the scumbags away the preyed upon children.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:01:17 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doesn't matter if they are civilian or not. They work with and for the .mil. Their job is to investigate crimes committed by/in the military. Was not the case in this matter. While I HATE child molesters and child porn peddlers and wish the punishment was harsher for those crimes, it is not the military's place to investigate civilians for civilian crimes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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NCIS is not the military They are DoN civilians - akin to FBI For starters are all NCIS agents civilians? In 24 years, I've never seen one wearig a uniform. All of the agents who work with or for me are civies, on and off ship. http://www.ncis.navy.mil/Pages/publicdefault.aspx Doesn't matter if they are civilian or not. They work with and for the .mil. Their job is to investigate crimes committed by/in the military. Was not the case in this matter. While I HATE child molesters and child porn peddlers and wish the punishment was harsher for those crimes, it is not the military's place to investigate civilians for civilian crimes. Not arguing whether or not their actions were correct, but whether or not Posse Commitatus applies to them. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:03:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Not doing OP's job for him. If YOU are going to call a dupe, YOU must provide the link. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:04:15 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not doing OP's job for him. If YOU are going to call a dupe, YOU must provide the link. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If YOU are going to call a dupe, YOU must provide the link. Good grief. Here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1667385_NCIS_violated_Posse_Comitatus_Act_in_state_wide_computer_searches.html |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:05:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Did the gold fringe get displayed yet
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:08:59 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once I read that it was a 9th Circus decision I made my mind up. I don't have an issue with what happened. Of course you don't, it means you have more free time to polish your boots. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:11:11 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not arguing whether or not their actions were correct, but whether or not Posse Commitatus applies to them. And I already played the one round I'm willing to play.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:42:20 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NCIS is searching for civilian criminals? Why???? According to the story, they aren't |
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