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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:13:24 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing is secure, there is always a way. 
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:15:47 AM EDT
[#2]
Meh.
10 minutes with some Israeli tech (prior to 4s) and iDevice will sing like U2. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:16:22 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryThere is a lot of truth to that. A big chunk of it comes down to good social "engineering". 
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:16:33 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
By setting up the "difficult" password it might have turned off your fingerprint ID login settings. Turn that back on, and then I think your new passcode will act as the backup in case it can't figure out the fingerprint. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Now my finger ID does not unlock the phone By setting up the "difficult" password it might have turned off your fingerprint ID login settings. Turn that back on, and then I think your new passcode will act as the backup in case it can't figure out the fingerprint. It was still selected, I just was pushing the button too long. it works when I do it right. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:17:53 AM EDT
[#5]
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Better than Google data-mining the fuck out of you and selling it to the highest bidder. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Leave it to the password hackers then? Calling Jeniffer Lawrence. Better than Google data-mining the fuck out of you and selling it to the highest bidder. This |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:20:41 AM EDT
[#6]
Confidential to Android: keep up...
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:22:08 AM EDT
[#7]
I'll beleive it when I see the source.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:26:12 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Arfcom will be high-fiving and cheering until the first kiddy-raper walks free because his Iphone was inaccessible to a Constitutionally valid search warrant. If all the cops have is the thought of some data that *might* be on an iphone, how solid of a case do you think they really have? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:30:55 AM EDT
[#9]
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If all the cops have is the thought of some data that *might* be on an iphone, how solid of a case do you think they really have? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Arfcom will be high-fiving and cheering until the first kiddy-raper walks free because his Iphone was inaccessible to a Constitutionally valid search warrant. If all the cops have is the thought of some data that *might* be on an iphone, how solid of a case do you think they really have? A search warrant is a search warrant... Why you hate that constitution bro? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:49:17 AM EDT
[#10]
Seriously? This is just PR. How silly do you have to be to believe that this makes anything more secure?
What did they claim? That apple basically removed their own back door, not that they removed all back doors. They took themselves out of the loop to lower compliance costs and prevent anymore backlash. This "may" slow down a local PD but not a major police force that has resources or I dunno....an intelligence division that has FBI, CIA and NSA liaison positions. If the government wants in...they're in. The hardest part of that process is shoe horning the justification into one of several "exceptions" that have been crafted into our laws in the last 30 years. If it emits RF it's compromised at some level. Ease of use and security have and will always have an inverse relationship. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:55:05 AM EDT
[#11]
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It was still selected, I just was pushing the button too long. it works when I do it right. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Now my finger ID does not unlock the phone By setting up the "difficult" password it might have turned off your fingerprint ID login settings. Turn that back on, and then I think your new passcode will act as the backup in case it can't figure out the fingerprint. It was still selected, I just was pushing the button too long. it works when I do it right. Gotcha. 
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:55:10 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A search warrant is a search warrant... Why you hate that constitution bro? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Arfcom will be high-fiving and cheering until the first kiddy-raper walks free because his Iphone was inaccessible to a Constitutionally valid search warrant. If all the cops have is the thought of some data that *might* be on an iphone, how solid of a case do you think they really have? A search warrant is a search warrant... Why you hate that constitution bro? I highly doubt that the Founding Father's would be ok with LE getting info off of a citizens phone by utilizing a search warrant given to a 3rd party who happens to be the phone's manufacturer. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:58:55 AM EDT
[#13]
Really how is it Apple's responsibility to comply with unlocking someone else's phone? They just made the damn thing, the person in question now owns it not Apple.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 10:03:41 AM EDT
[#14]
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A search warrant is a search warrant... Why you hate that constitution bro? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Arfcom will be high-fiving and cheering until the first kiddy-raper walks free because his Iphone was inaccessible to a Constitutionally valid search warrant. If all the cops have is the thought of some data that *might* be on an iphone, how solid of a case do you think they really have? A search warrant is a search warrant... Why you hate that constitution bro? It's analogous to a safe. With a warrant you are welcome to break your way in but you can't compel the combination holder to unlock it for you. The fact that it's just a really hard safe made of ones and zeros doesn't change the basic facts. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 10:06:53 AM EDT
[#15]
This is all great until there are pics of your 10 year old daughter on the device that would lock up the perp if discovered...
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Posted: 9/18/2014 10:07:23 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Arfcom will be high-fiving and cheering until the first kiddy-raper walks free because his Iphone was inaccessible to a Constitutionally valid search warrant. Just saw this and YEP! |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 10:14:00 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just saw this and YEP! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Arfcom will be high-fiving and cheering until the first kiddy-raper walks free because his Iphone was inaccessible to a Constitutionally valid search warrant. Just saw this and YEP! Not me. I'm not a fair weather Constitution believer. YMMV. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 10:29:17 AM EDT
[#18]
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Good luck on the warrants front. As I was instructed, a warrant can span from "you may do XYZ" to "the Court orders XYZ be done." Willful obstruction of a court order probably won't go over so hot, if it comes to refusing-warrants time. From reading the article, it appears as if they are making the phone purposefully very difficult to crack with apple software and personnel. This would allow them to say "the order is impossible," which is a relatively valid legal argument. IE: A judge can't order you to fly by flapping your arms or be held in contempt of court indefinitely. There is due process. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 10:54:02 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryA stupid argument. The 5th amendment covers passwords to electronics in the same manner as physical safes - the govt can crack it, if they can, but the owner cannot be compelled to provide the key. Sure, the CIA may torture a couple Americans a year, but the thousands of others caught in the regular legal system do gain protection from this. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 11:10:25 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A stupid argument. The 5th amendment covers passwords to electronics in the same manner as physical safes - the govt can crack it, if they can, but the owner cannot be compelled to provide the key. Sure, the CIA may torture a couple Americans a year, but the thousands of others caught in the regular legal system do gain protection from this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
A stupid argument. The 5th amendment covers passwords to electronics in the same manner as physical safes - the govt can crack it, if they can, but the owner cannot be compelled to provide the key. Sure, the CIA may torture a couple Americans a year, but the thousands of others caught in the regular legal system do gain protection from this. I don't believe this is true https://blog.bit9.com/2014/06/26/court-compelled-hard-drive-decryption-does-not-violate-fifth-amendment-rights-says-mass-high-court/ I understand this is MA, but I believe I have seen other people compelled to decrypt. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:04:52 PM EDT
[#21]
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A search warrant is a search warrant... Why you hate that constitution bro? You mean the secret search warrant from the secret court? Yeah, I remember reading about that in the Constitution. That's why I have such a warm feeling about all the expansions of government's abilities to spy on citizens. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:10:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All lawful access required. There is no hardware, software, encryption, etc sold with a FCC license that does not allow for all lawful access or national security. Every device has a backdoor built in big enough to drive the NSA and DOJ through it. Or it doesn't get a sticker. Phones, computers, etc. Been this way for decades. Used to be in the opening page of the Telecom Act. They probably bury it a little deeper now. Apple will probably act surprised when they get denied for a license, make a big show about only begrudgingly complying when a proper court order forces them to include some "key" for a back door. Fought the good fight, but were beaten by "the man". Years later some whistle blower will reveal that every key stroke, image and sound is automatically loaded to a NSA/DOJ cloud in real time 24/7. This is all just theater. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Isn't a search warrant the proper way to do things? Why you hate the constitution? Then Apple won't qualify for that little FCC sticker on the back of the phone. No sticker, no sale in the US. Every Federal Telecom Act for decades has required that any new technology have an access for LEO and national security. No back door = no license to sell Telecom in the US. All lawful access required. There is no hardware, software, encryption, etc sold with a FCC license that does not allow for all lawful access or national security. Every device has a backdoor built in big enough to drive the NSA and DOJ through it. Or it doesn't get a sticker. Phones, computers, etc. Been this way for decades. Used to be in the opening page of the Telecom Act. They probably bury it a little deeper now. Apple will probably act surprised when they get denied for a license, make a big show about only begrudgingly complying when a proper court order forces them to include some "key" for a back door. Fought the good fight, but were beaten by "the man". Years later some whistle blower will reveal that every key stroke, image and sound is automatically loaded to a NSA/DOJ cloud in real time 24/7. This is all just theater. LOL. Do you work in technology? If so, please estimate the storage requirement for "every keystroke, image and sound" to be logged to the "NSA/DOJ cloud". If not, please GTFO with the ridiculous paranoia theories and go buy some tinfoil. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:12:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Police dont need apple to ulnock iphones. If they have a warrant they just hook it up to a cellbrite machine and hit "download" button.
ETA: I do this all the time and i work for a local city pd. All departments have access to cellbrite |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:18:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mean the secret search warrant from the secret court? Yeah, I remember reading about that in the Constitution. That's why I have such a warm feeling about all the expansions of government's abilities to spy on citizens. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A search warrant is a search warrant... Why you hate that constitution bro? You mean the secret search warrant from the secret court? Yeah, I remember reading about that in the Constitution. That's why I have such a warm feeling about all the expansions of government's abilities to spy on citizens. Secret court? Tin foil time! |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:20:07 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Push too long, people get tired of it. I can see this being a selling point. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:20:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Police dont need apple to ulnock iphones. If they have a warrant they just hook it up to a cellbrite machine and hit "download" button. ETA: I do this all the time and i work for a local city pd. All departments have access to cellbrite 
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:21:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Whats funny?
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:22:02 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I highly doubt that the Founding Father's would be ok with LE getting info off of a citizens phone by utilizing a search warrant given to a 3rd party who happens to be the phone's manufacturer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Arfcom will be high-fiving and cheering until the first kiddy-raper walks free because his Iphone was inaccessible to a Constitutionally valid search warrant. If all the cops have is the thought of some data that *might* be on an iphone, how solid of a case do you think they really have? A search warrant is a search warrant... Why you hate that constitution bro? I highly doubt that the Founding Father's would be ok with LE getting info off of a citizens phone by utilizing a search warrant given to a 3rd party who happens to be the phone's manufacturer. I have no problem with the concept of a warrant. But suppose police found a piece of paper in my home with "wf4q67xL45" written on it. As a defendant, should I be under any obligation to explain/decrypt this for them? Should the paper and pen manufacturers be legally obligated to explain/decrypt this information for them? I see no difference here. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:24:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't believe this is true https://blog.bit9.com/2014/06/26/court-compelled-hard-drive-decryption-does-not-violate-fifth-amendment-rights-says-mass-high-court/ I understand this is MA, but I believe I have seen other people compelled to decrypt. There have been such cases - ex opening a laptop with child porn in front of LEOs, then refusing to open it later - but they remain freaks, not mainstream law. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:27:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whats funny? Your bullshit. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:28:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Meanwhile U2 albums appear by magic and unsolicited. Thanks for the freedom, Apple!
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:28:30 PM EDT
[#32]
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Your bullshit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Whats funny? Your bullshit. http://www.cellebrite.com/mobile-forensics/products/standalone/ufed-touch-ultimate |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:29:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Secret court? Tin foil time! Because the FISA court doesn't exist? Because they are so transparent in their actions and scope? Because you trust your friendly NSA, CIA, FBI, NCIS, etc. agency? You want to ignore many instances of law enforcement all over the country lying to get warrants? When those who swear to uphold the Constitution are regularly shown to be violating the Constitution and nothing happens to them, you think there may be a problem? With all that why wouldn't Apple simply make it impossible to comply with a warrant? They did, and now law enforcement will whine like little girls. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:30:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Not sure how its bullshit
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:35:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because the FISA court doesn't exist? Because they are so transparent in their actions and scope? Because you trust your friendly NSA, CIA, FBI, NCIS, etc. agency? You want to ignore many instances of law enforcement all over the country lying to get warrants? When those who swear to uphold the Constitution are regularly shown to be violating the Constitution and nothing happens to them, you think there may be a problem? With all that why wouldn't Apple simply make it impossible to comply with a warrant? They did, and now law enforcement will whine like little girls. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Secret court? Tin foil time! Because the FISA court doesn't exist? Because they are so transparent in their actions and scope? Because you trust your friendly NSA, CIA, FBI, NCIS, etc. agency? You want to ignore many instances of law enforcement all over the country lying to get warrants? When those who swear to uphold the Constitution are regularly shown to be violating the Constitution and nothing happens to them, you think there may be a problem? With all that why wouldn't Apple simply make it impossible to comply with a warrant? They did, and now law enforcement will whine like little girls. I don't go to their courts for warrants. You got a contact handy? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:35:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Whats funny? Your bullshit. http://www.cellebrite.com/mobile-forensics/products/standalone/ufed-touch-ultimate ORLY? 
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:38:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing is secure, there is always a way. 
If people only knew. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:39:06 PM EDT
[#38]
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The only thing that concerns me is that they mention data being automatically backed up in the cloud. Hopefully phones will not be configured like that out of the box as that is just as bad as having the password subpoenable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not a bad thing overall. More agencies will develop their own entry capability in house and have their own techs. This will be good justification for more funding and more employees along with a higher level of capability to manipulate the device in house. As long as it is a pause long enough for them to get a search warrant, I'm ok with this. Reading through phones on the side of the road was bullshit and everyone with a brain knew it. The only thing that concerns me is that they mention data being automatically backed up in the cloud. Hopefully phones will not be configured like that out of the box as that is just as bad as having the password subpoenable. That doesn't bother me, as long as the data is stored in it's encrypted format. I wouldn't mind a 'self destruct code' though  . A password that when entered scrambles memory and the cloud.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:44:09 PM EDT
[#39]
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Whats funny? Your bullshit. http://www.cellebrite.com/mobile-forensics/products/standalone/ufed-touch-ultimate The devil's in the details. 
Ain't gonna do shit to a locked iPhone4s+(98% of active iPhones in the last year) or anything running iOS 7+(91% of active iDevices). |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:45:08 PM EDT
[#40]
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Not sure how its bullshit Because one of us actually does use a Cellebrite and knows its capabilities and limitations. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:45:22 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Whats funny? Your bullshit. http://www.cellebrite.com/mobile-forensics/products/standalone/ufed-touch-ultimate ORLY? http://i58.tinypic.com/220vih.png iThingees don't have memory cards... |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:46:42 PM EDT
[#42]
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so this means they will just throw us in the pokey until we give up the password? Which is fine. I don't want someone else having the ability to share my shit. My shit is mine. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:48:44 PM EDT
[#43]
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iThingees don't have memory cards... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Whats funny? Your bullshit. http://www.cellebrite.com/mobile-forensics/products/standalone/ufed-touch-ultimate ORLY? http://i58.tinypic.com/220vih.png iThingees don't have memory cards... If you read all the columns, it doesn't read anything not stored in plaintext logs (text, phone calls, email) |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:49:06 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing is secure, there is always a way. Except of course, any information that is damaging to Democrats. TXL |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:49:24 PM EDT
[#45]
If i have your phone then i have the memory card. That just requires another machine.
Or i just take your phone to the HSI task force guys and they can really do some damage. And oh yeah...iphones dont have memory cards |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:50:29 PM EDT
[#46]
If you don't fear anything you haven't done anything...wait...wut?
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:51:04 PM EDT
[#47]
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If i have your phone then i have the memory card. That just requires another machine. And oh yeah...iphones dont have memory cards My iPhone 6 arrives tomorrow. How about I ship you my iPhone 5 and you hook it up to your nifty tool and send me back my credit card info from my bank app. If you can't, you send my phone back with $1000. Deal? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:53:46 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My iPhone 6 arrives tomorrow. How about I ship you my iPhone 5 and you hook it up to your nifty tool and send me back my credit card info from my bank app. If you can't, you send my phone back with $1000. Deal? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If i have your phone then i have the memory card. That just requires another machine. And oh yeah...iphones dont have memory cards My iPhone 6 arrives tomorrow. How about I ship you my iPhone 5 and you hook it up to your nifty tool and send me back my credit card info from my bank app. If you can't, you send my phone back with $1000. Deal? Sounds very Nigerian.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 2:58:06 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Police dont need apple to ulnock iphones. If they have a warrant they just hook it up to a cellbrite machine and hit "download" button. ETA: I do this all the time and i work for a local city pd. All departments have access to cellbrite It will be breaking the encryption that will be the problem. TXL |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 3:00:01 PM EDT
[#50]
The encryption is the easy part
Never found a phone that we couldnt get into unless it is a prepaid |
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