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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:07:35 PM EDT
If Russia moves on Estonia, do NATO jets take off from Belgium, Germany, Turkey, Netherlands, and Italy with canned sunshine?
 Russian just recently preformed a cross border raid and picked up an Estonian Intelligence Official a couple days after Obama's visit to Estonia http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/07/russia-parades-detained-estonian-police-officer |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:13:23 PM EDT
[#1]
No. Homie don't play dat.
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:13:32 PM EDT
[#2]
I would hope that if Russia invaded Estonia we'd find some loophole to get out of our obligations...
Seriously, we should never have expanded NATO to Russia's borders. It was short sighted and dangerous. We should have given the Baltic states a Nuke or two and said "Your security is your own business" and have been done with it. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:14:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Nobody gains from that
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:15:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Here's the thing, Estonia probably doesn't want us to back our NATO obligations to Estonia.
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:16:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would hope that if Russia invaded Estonia we'd find some loophole to get out of our obligations... Seriously, we should never have expanded NATO to Russia's borders. It was short sighted and dangerous. We should have given the Baltic states a Nuke or two and said "Your security is your own business" and have been done with it. You dont throw your friends under the bus. Have a back bone. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:17:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
If Russia moves on Estonia, do NATO jets take off from Belgium, Germany, Turkey, Netherlands, and Italy with canned sunshine? Russian just recently preformed a cross border raid and picked up an Estonian Intelligence Official a couple days after Obama's visit to Estonia http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/07/russia-parades-detained-estonian-police-officer It will mean a flurry of stern hashtags. Nothing more. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:18:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Our foreign policy has been neutered. It will take a WW2 level demonstration of mobilization and commitment to regain the credibility we've lost. We're backing ourselves into a corner that will eventually force us into a major conflict.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:19:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You dot throw your friends under the bus. Have a back bone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I would hope that if Russia invaded Estonia we'd find some loophole to get out of our obligations... Seriously, we should never have expanded NATO to Russia's borders. It was short sighted and dangerous. We should have given the Baltic states a Nuke or two and said "Your security is your own business" and have been done with it. You dot throw your friends under the bus. Have a back bone. I'm sorry, when the consequence is a nuclear exchange you throw your friends under a bus. Are millions of dead Americans worth a little over a million Estonians. Seriously, I want you to answer that question. The population of Estonia is 1,300,000. Is that worth a nuclear exchange? We should have never let them into NATO in the first place. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:19:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Nato doesn't have immediate access to nuclear weapons.
The U.K., France or the U.S. would have to contribute. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:20:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's the thing, Estonia probably doesn't want us to back our NATO obligations to Estonia. Estonian President Calls For Permanent NATO Base in Country |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:20:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm sorry, when the consequence is a nuclear exchange you throw your friends under a bus. Are millions of dead Americans worth a little over a million Estonians. Seriously, I want you to answer that question. The population of Estonia is 1,300,000. Is that worth a nuclear exchange? We should have never let them into NATO in the first place. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would hope that if Russia invaded Estonia we'd find some loophole to get out of our obligations... Seriously, we should never have expanded NATO to Russia's borders. It was short sighted and dangerous. We should have given the Baltic states a Nuke or two and said "Your security is your own business" and have been done with it. You dot throw your friends under the bus. Have a back bone. I'm sorry, when the consequence is a nuclear exchange you throw your friends under a bus. Are millions of dead Americans worth a little over a million Estonians. Seriously, I want you to answer that question. The population of Estonia is 1,300,000. Is that worth a nuclear exchange? We should have never let them into NATO in the first place. I agree we shouldn't have let them but the promise must be kept. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:21:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Depends on how Russia does it.
If they move in with some tanks and troops then NATO will counter the same way. If Russia uses chemical warfare then it is a toss up whether NATO takes it to the next level. If Russia goes nuke then NATO will respond in kind. If we had a leader with some balls anyway. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:22:01 PM EDT
[#13]
Sometimes I wonder if this was what it was like, prior to WW1. Lots of little BS, treaties, alliances. And then one spark, and bam, before anyone realizes what happens, we are at war. We sure have the media dropping the ball and glossing over the important shit, that is for sure.
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:22:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nato doesn't have immediate access to nuclear weapons. The U.K., France or the U.S. would have to contribute.   |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:24:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm sorry, when the consequence is a nuclear exchange you throw your friends under a bus. Are millions of dead Americans worth a little over a million Estonians. Seriously, I want you to answer that question. The population of Estonia is 1,300,000. Is that worth a nuclear exchange? We should have never let them into NATO in the first place. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would hope that if Russia invaded Estonia we'd find some loophole to get out of our obligations... Seriously, we should never have expanded NATO to Russia's borders. It was short sighted and dangerous. We should have given the Baltic states a Nuke or two and said "Your security is your own business" and have been done with it. You dot throw your friends under the bus. Have a back bone. I'm sorry, when the consequence is a nuclear exchange you throw your friends under a bus. Are millions of dead Americans worth a little over a million Estonians. Seriously, I want you to answer that question. The population of Estonia is 1,300,000. Is that worth a nuclear exchange? We should have never let them into NATO in the first place. There was a time when that question never would have needed to be asked, because we had the will and principles, and the Soviets knew that. Now Barack. Chamberlain is blaring weakness over the world loudspeakers, which encourages those actions. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:24:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sorry, when the consequence is a nuclear exchange you throw your friends under a bus. Are millions of dead Americans worth a little over a million Estonians. Seriously, I want you to answer that question. The population of Estonia is 1,300,000. Is that worth a nuclear exchange? We should have never let them into NATO in the first place. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would hope that if Russia invaded Estonia we'd find some loophole to get out of our obligations... Seriously, we should never have expanded NATO to Russia's borders. It was short sighted and dangerous. We should have given the Baltic states a Nuke or two and said "Your security is your own business" and have been done with it. You dot throw your friends under the bus. Have a back bone. I'm sorry, when the consequence is a nuclear exchange you throw your friends under a bus. Are millions of dead Americans worth a little over a million Estonians. Seriously, I want you to answer that question. The population of Estonia is 1,300,000. Is that worth a nuclear exchange? We should have never let them into NATO in the first place. Hell yeah. Because down the road. When the USA is genuinely in trouble. You want guys who will stand up with you. Shouldn't have let them in NATO? Shoulda, woulda, coulda. We have obligations to protect them. Russia ain't going to annihilate herself trying to take over Estonia. The problem is when Russia thinks we're too large of pussies to do anything, and someday might. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:27:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Russia won't move on Europe, they'll just let Islam move on Europe, and pick over the leavings.
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:29:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hell yeah. Because down the road. When the USA is genuinely in trouble. You want guys who will stand up with you. Shouldn't have let them in NATO? Shoulda, woulda, coulda. We have obligations to protect them. Russia ain't going to annihilate herself trying to take over Estonia. The problem is when Russia thinks we're too large of pussies to do anything, and someday might. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would hope that if Russia invaded Estonia we'd find some loophole to get out of our obligations... Seriously, we should never have expanded NATO to Russia's borders. It was short sighted and dangerous. We should have given the Baltic states a Nuke or two and said "Your security is your own business" and have been done with it. You dot throw your friends under the bus. Have a back bone. I'm sorry, when the consequence is a nuclear exchange you throw your friends under a bus. Are millions of dead Americans worth a little over a million Estonians. Seriously, I want you to answer that question. The population of Estonia is 1,300,000. Is that worth a nuclear exchange? We should have never let them into NATO in the first place. Hell yeah. Because down the road. When the USA is genuinely in trouble. You want guys who will stand up with you. Shouldn't have let them in NATO? Shoulda, woulda, coulda. We have obligations to protect them. Russia ain't going to annihilate herself trying to take over Estonia. The problem is when Russia thinks we're too large of pussies to do anything, and someday might. If the US is in trouble on the mainland, then nobody else in NATO will be in a position to help. By letting the Baltic States into NATO we deliberately provoked the Russians. NATO is in essence an anti-Russian alliance, just as the Warsaw pact was an anti-US alliance. Having the Baltic states join NATO is the equivalent of the state of New York joining the Warsaw Pact. It was so short sighted it is laughable. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:32:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the US is in trouble on the mainland, then nobody else in NATO will be in a position to help. By letting the Baltic States into NATO we deliberately provoked the Russians. NATO is in essence an anti-Russian alliance, just as the Warsaw pact was an anti-US alliance. Having the Baltic states join NATO is the equivalent of the state of New York joining the Warsaw Pact. It was so short sighted it is laughable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would hope that if Russia invaded Estonia we'd find some loophole to get out of our obligations... Seriously, we should never have expanded NATO to Russia's borders. It was short sighted and dangerous. We should have given the Baltic states a Nuke or two and said "Your security is your own business" and have been done with it. You dot throw your friends under the bus. Have a back bone. I'm sorry, when the consequence is a nuclear exchange you throw your friends under a bus. Are millions of dead Americans worth a little over a million Estonians. Seriously, I want you to answer that question. The population of Estonia is 1,300,000. Is that worth a nuclear exchange? We should have never let them into NATO in the first place. Hell yeah. Because down the road. When the USA is genuinely in trouble. You want guys who will stand up with you. Shouldn't have let them in NATO? Shoulda, woulda, coulda. We have obligations to protect them. Russia ain't going to annihilate herself trying to take over Estonia. The problem is when Russia thinks we're too large of pussies to do anything, and someday might. If the US is in trouble on the mainland, then nobody else in NATO will be in a position to help. By letting the Baltic States into NATO we deliberately provoked the Russians. NATO is in essence an anti-Russian alliance, just as the Warsaw pact was an anti-US alliance. Having the Baltic states join NATO is the equivalent of the state of New York joining the Warsaw Pact. It was so short sighted it is laughable. How dare they want out from under the Russian boot. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:33:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the US is in trouble on the mainland, then nobody else in NATO will be in a position to help. By letting the Baltic States into NATO we deliberately provoked the Russians. NATO is in essence an anti-Russian alliance, just as the Warsaw pact was an anti-US alliance. Having the Baltic states join NATO is the equivalent of the state of New York joining the Warsaw Pact. It was so short sighted it is laughable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would hope that if Russia invaded Estonia we'd find some loophole to get out of our obligations... Seriously, we should never have expanded NATO to Russia's borders. It was short sighted and dangerous. We should have given the Baltic states a Nuke or two and said "Your security is your own business" and have been done with it. You dot throw your friends under the bus. Have a back bone. I'm sorry, when the consequence is a nuclear exchange you throw your friends under a bus. Are millions of dead Americans worth a little over a million Estonians. Seriously, I want you to answer that question. The population of Estonia is 1,300,000. Is that worth a nuclear exchange? We should have never let them into NATO in the first place. Hell yeah. Because down the road. When the USA is genuinely in trouble. You want guys who will stand up with you. Shouldn't have let them in NATO? Shoulda, woulda, coulda. We have obligations to protect them. Russia ain't going to annihilate herself trying to take over Estonia. The problem is when Russia thinks we're too large of pussies to do anything, and someday might. If the US is in trouble on the mainland, then nobody else in NATO will be in a position to help. By letting the Baltic States into NATO we deliberately provoked the Russians. NATO is in essence an anti-Russian alliance, just as the Warsaw pact was an anti-US alliance. Having the Baltic states join NATO is the equivalent of the state of New York joining the Warsaw Pact. It was so short sighted it is laughable. You either have principles or you don't. You either recognize a state's right to determine its own path or you don't. It's that simple. Russia was engage by NATO every bit as positively as Estonia and others, even more so, Russia chose to make it an enemy. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:34:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How dare they want out from under the Russian boot. If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:37:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How dare they want out from under the Russian boot. If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. I'm not saying that I disagree with you, but WWIII isn't going to be over Estonia. Estonia may be the final straw though |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:37:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How dare they want out from under the Russian boot. If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. You're ok with us bitching out of our NATO obligations, but you think giving the Estonians a nuclear sub wouldn't piss off the Russians? 
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:37:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How dare they want out from under the Russian boot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Originally If the US is in trouble on the mainland, then nobody else in NATO will be in a position to help. By letting the Baltic States into NATO we deliberately provoked the Russians. NATO is in essence an anti-Russian alliance, just as the Warsaw pact was an anti-US alliance. Having the Baltic states join NATO is the equivalent of the state of New York joining the Warsaw Pact. It was so short sighted it is laughable. How dare they want out from under the Russian boot. No shit. Lol Fuck Russia
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:38:07 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How dare they want out from under the Russian boot. If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. Why does that logic not apply both ways? |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:40:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How dare they want out from under the Russian boot. If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. Because giving a tyrant a sovereign country as a gift. Avoids world wars, right?
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:40:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because giving a tyrant a sovereign country as a gift. Avoids world wars, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How dare they want out from under the Russian boot. If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. Because giving a tyrant a sovereign country as a gift. Avoids world wars, right? It has in the past. Not every tyrant is Hitler. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:41:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It has in the past. Not every tyrant is Hitler. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How dare they want out from under the Russian boot. If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. Because giving a tyrant a sovereign country as a gift. Avoids world wars, right? It has in the past. Not every tyrant is Hitler. Which event are you thinking of specifically? |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:42:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It has in the past. Not every tyrant is Hitler. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How dare they want out from under the Russian boot. If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. Because giving a tyrant a sovereign country as a gift. Avoids world wars, right? It has in the past. Not every tyrant is Hitler. A brutal expansionist tyrant who believes in Slavic superiority isn't like Hitler at all. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:42:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Russia cannot into Eesti! Remove Borscht!
But seriously: Buffer states aren't very good buffers if you don't do shit if they get invaded. Buffer states aren't very good buffers if you have to go to total nuclear commitment if they get invaded. For much of the Cold War, there were damned few if any Warsaw Pact invasion scenarios that didn't inevitably escalate to full nuclear exchanges. I have no idea how it plays out now... |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:42:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It has in the past. Not every tyrant is Hitler. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How dare they want out from under the Russian boot. If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. Because giving a tyrant a sovereign country as a gift. Avoids world wars, right? It has in the past. Not every tyrant is Hitler. Wow. I guess I can see how you'd act in any sort adversity.
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:43:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which event are you thinking of specifically? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How dare they want out from under the Russian boot. If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. Because giving a tyrant a sovereign country as a gift. Avoids world wars, right? It has in the past. Not every tyrant is Hitler. Which event are you thinking of specifically? Cuban missile crisis, we took our nukes out of Turkey. Respecting another power's sphere of influence is a good way to maintain peace. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:44:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You dot throw your friends under the bus. Have a back bone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I would hope that if Russia invaded Estonia we'd find some loophole to get out of our obligations... Seriously, we should never have expanded NATO to Russia's borders. It was short sighted and dangerous. We should have given the Baltic states a Nuke or two and said "Your security is your own business" and have been done with it. You dot throw your friends under the bus. Have a back bone. Sure we do. Hell, we threw Ukraine right under after promising not to in exchange for their nukes. Our word isn't worth shit. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:45:03 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cuban missile crisis, we took our nukes out of Turkey. Respecting another power's sphere of influence is a good way to maintain peace. That wasn't free. We made the Soviets take their nukes out
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:45:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow. I guess I can see how you'd act in any sort adversity.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How dare they want out from under the Russian boot. If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. Because giving a tyrant a sovereign country as a gift. Avoids world wars, right? It has in the past. Not every tyrant is Hitler. Wow. I guess I can see how you'd act in any sort adversity.
Just because I'm not willing to start WWIII over Estonia doesn't mean I don't have a backbone, it just means I'm a realist. If the Russians invade the UK, Germany, or even Poland, I'm willing to man up and fight. Heck, I'd probably be at the recruiting office the next day. I am no coward. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:45:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Russia cannot into Eesti! Remove Borscht! But seriously: Buffer states aren't very good buffers if you don't do shit if they get invaded. Buffer states aren't very good buffers if you have to go to total nuclear commitment if they get invaded. For much of the Cold War, there were damned few if any Warsaw Pact invasion scenarios that didn't inevitably escalate to full nuclear exchanges. I have no idea how it plays out now... Very different. Russia is the only country that retains nuclear strike doctrine for anything but an existential threat. A Russian invasion would not prompt a nuclear strike. NATO is more than capable of fighting off the Russians conventionally, and Russia knows this. The only real issue is more one of political will. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:45:34 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cuban missile crisis, we took our nukes out of Turkey. Respecting another power's sphere of influence is a good way to maintain peace. No. We are talking about surrendering a sovereign ally and getting peace in return. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:46:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That wasn't free. We made the Soviets take their nukes out Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Cuban missile crisis, we took our nukes out of Turkey. Respecting another power's sphere of influence is a good way to maintain peace. That wasn't free. We made the Soviets take their nukes out And we sure as shit didn't boot Turkey out of NATO. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:47:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. We are talking about surrendering a sovereign ally and getting peace in return. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Cuban missile crisis, we took our nukes out of Turkey. Respecting another power's sphere of influence is a good way to maintain peace. No. We are talking about surrendering a sovereign ally and getting peace in return. Yep. Big difference.
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:47:31 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. We are talking about surrendering a sovereign ally and getting peace in return. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Cuban missile crisis, we took our nukes out of Turkey. Respecting another power's sphere of influence is a good way to maintain peace. No. We are talking about surrendering a sovereign ally and getting peace in return. In our time.... |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:48:51 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. We are talking about surrendering a sovereign ally and getting peace in return. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Cuban missile crisis, we took our nukes out of Turkey. Respecting another power's sphere of influence is a good way to maintain peace. No. We are talking about surrendering a sovereign ally and getting peace in return. Putin isn't Hitler redux. I don't think he has plans for taking over all of continental Europe. He knows he can't. The fact remains that we expanded our anti-Russian alliance system to his borders. That was stupid of us to do. If we would have let the Ukraine in we'd be in WWIII right now. All I'm saying is that you respect another power's sphere of influence. We didn't. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:50:57 PM EDT
[#42]
So wait, Britain shouldn't have honored its commitment to Belgium? I'm confused.
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:52:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So wait, Britain shouldn't have honored its commitment to Belgium? I'm confused. Belgium is not Estonia. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:56:06 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Putin isn't Hitler redux. I don't think he has plans for taking over all of continental Europe. He knows he can't. The fact remains that we expanded our anti-Russian alliance system to his borders. That was stupid of us to do. If we would have let the Ukraine in we'd be in WWIII right now. All I'm saying is that you respect another power's sphere of influence. We didn't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Cuban missile crisis, we took our nukes out of Turkey. Respecting another power's sphere of influence is a good way to maintain peace. No. We are talking about surrendering a sovereign ally and getting peace in return. Putin isn't Hitler redux. I don't think he has plans for taking over all of continental Europe. He knows he can't. The fact remains that we expanded our anti-Russian alliance system to his borders. That was stupid of us to do. If we would have let the Ukraine in we'd be in WWIII right now. All I'm saying is that you respect another power's sphere of influence. We didn't. You really should let NATO know they are an "Anti Russian alliance." Seems they aren't aware. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:57:25 PM EDT
[#45]
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Putin isn't Hitler redux. I don't think he has plans for taking over all of continental Europe. He knows he can't. The fact remains that we expanded our anti-Russian alliance system to his borders. That was stupid of us to do. If we would have let the Ukraine in we'd be in WWIII right now. All I'm saying is that you respect another power's sphere of influence. We didn't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Cuban missile crisis, we took our nukes out of Turkey. Respecting another power's sphere of influence is a good way to maintain peace. No. We are talking about surrendering a sovereign ally and getting peace in return. Putin isn't Hitler redux. I don't think he has plans for taking over all of continental Europe. He knows he can't. The fact remains that we expanded our anti-Russian alliance system to his borders. That was stupid of us to do. If we would have let the Ukraine in we'd be in WWIII right now. All I'm saying is that you respect another power's sphere of influence. We didn't. And I agree. But that ship has sailed. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 11:58:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A brutal expansionist tyrant who believes in Slavic superiority isn't like Hitler at all. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How dare they want out from under the Russian boot. If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. Because giving a tyrant a sovereign country as a gift. Avoids world wars, right? It has in the past. Not every tyrant is Hitler. A brutal expansionist tyrant who believes in Slavic superiority isn't like Hitler at all. Don't forget the Putin youth    |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 12:03:31 AM EDT
[#47]
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I have no idea how it plays out now... This time next year Russian troops can take r&r in Paris? 
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Posted: 9/15/2014 12:05:36 AM EDT
[#48]
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And I agree. But that ship has sailed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Cuban missile crisis, we took our nukes out of Turkey. Respecting another power's sphere of influence is a good way to maintain peace. No. We are talking about surrendering a sovereign ally and getting peace in return. Putin isn't Hitler redux. I don't think he has plans for taking over all of continental Europe. He knows he can't. The fact remains that we expanded our anti-Russian alliance system to his borders. That was stupid of us to do. If we would have let the Ukraine in we'd be in WWIII right now. All I'm saying is that you respect another power's sphere of influence. We didn't. And I agree. But that ship has sailed. I disagree If we had let Ukraine in, Russia would never have tried the stunt they are trying. But the whole premise is asinine, as Ukraine never asked to join, nor would they. Ironically, now they want to. Russia has that effect on people. |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 12:09:13 AM EDT
[#49]
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This time next year Russian troops can take r&r in Paris? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have no idea how it plays out now... This time next year Russian troops can take r&r in Paris? I think the nukes come out in Poland, either by NATO when we need to stop an offensive we don't reasonable have hope to reverse, or by the Russian when we reverse their offensive and start rolling east. Poland is the new Fulda Gap. |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 12:11:47 AM EDT
[#50]
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It has in the past. Not every tyrant is Hitler. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How dare they want out from under the Russian boot. If I were them I'd want out of the Russian boot as well, but it is foolish for the US to guarantee it with NATO Article 5 protection. The US should have given them a Nuclear Submarine and then said 'you're on your own', to risk WWIII over Estonia is retarded. Because giving a tyrant a sovereign country as a gift. Avoids world wars, right? It has in the past. Not every tyrant is Hitler. "If you give a mouse a Crimea, he's going to want a Ukraine." Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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