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Posted: 9/1/2014 3:56:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
100% correct in the day and age. Hostage Situations should be acted upon as an Active Shooter. gone are the days of a typical hostage situation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The problem with a situation like this is I believe it would be treated as hostage situation instead of an active shooter. My opinion on this is not popular with police brass but I think any hostage type situation should be treated as an active shooter, teams form up, hunt down and kill the bad guys. There will more than likely be innocents killed but if you wait then it will be even harder to rescue them. 100% correct in the day and age. Hostage Situations should be acted upon as an Active Shooter. gone are the days of a typical hostage situation. There was a school in CO that gun man came in and took hostages. The SWAT team made visual contact with the person, then back off because it was a hostage situation not an active shooter to negotiate. The guy began sexually assaulting the girls and then started shooting them. He was killed by the police but not before iirc he killed five of the kids. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 3:57:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Dave Grossman talked about this on Bullet Proof Mindset. Had just one school teacher been armed they could have maybe shot one of the men guarding the exits and saved a few. The horror that went on in that school for three days can surely happen here.
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Posted: 9/1/2014 5:21:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was a school in CO that gun man came in and took hostages. The SWAT team made visual contact with the person, then back off because it was a hostage situation not an active shooter to negotiate. The guy began sexually assaulting the girls and then started shooting them. He was killed by the police but not before iirc he killed five of the kids. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The problem with a situation like this is I believe it would be treated as hostage situation instead of an active shooter. My opinion on this is not popular with police brass but I think any hostage type situation should be treated as an active shooter, teams form up, hunt down and kill the bad guys. There will more than likely be innocents killed but if you wait then it will be even harder to rescue them. 100% correct in the day and age. Hostage Situations should be acted upon as an Active Shooter. gone are the days of a typical hostage situation. There was a school in CO that gun man came in and took hostages. The SWAT team made visual contact with the person, then back off because it was a hostage situation not an active shooter to negotiate. The guy began sexually assaulting the girls and then started shooting them. He was killed by the police but not before iirc he killed five of the kids. Pretty sure you're referring to the incident at Platte Valley High School. The shooter did sexually assault several girls, then let all but one go. He was seated on the classroom floor with his back to the wall and had Emily K. seated on the floor directly in front of him with her back to his chest. He shot her in the head then shot himself as the team entered the room. A no-win for the good guys. Heard this from Sheriff Wegoner himself at a meeting I attended a few years ago..several years after the thing went down. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 5:28:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Nevermind, totally misread something.
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Posted: 9/1/2014 5:39:24 PM EDT
[#5]
They are mis understood.
You all read the koran out of context You don't speak Arabic so you can't understand the true koran The US support of Israel is to blame The Jews are to blame Western imperialism is to blame |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 5:50:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Bama & Sylvan are spot on. The PTB will want to consider all the options rather than solve the problem before the bad guys are solidly in place.
Give a determined force a day or two to harden a location and it will take a serious force with breaching charges to make an entrance. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 5:51:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bama & Sylvan are spot on. The PTB will want to consider all the options rather than solve the problem before the bad guys are solidly in place. Give a determined force a day or two to harden a location and it will take a serious force with breaching charges to make an entrance. No casualties is unreasonable. But the media will be in full retard mode |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 6:15:36 PM EDT
[#8]
My son starts his senior year of high school tomorrow. He knows about the Beslan massacre and has been taught to escape first, all else second.
"Shelter in place" my ass. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 6:17:59 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LE/Mil will be absolutely worthless in this circumstance. They will stand around for 3 days debating who the IC is, while the terrorists rape, murder and harden the target. Then when all the dunkin doughnut fatboys and squeezed into their multi-cam kool guy kit, the terrorists blow up the school, kill all the kids, a few of the cops, and then we will have some gun control bills introduced into congress. You harden the target. Armed guards or, preferrably, armed teachers. Once they are in, you are fucked. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The problem is what if they manage to do this in our country? What will we do? What if they take down several schools at once? The islamists will try again so hopefully our LE/Mil are ready for this. LE/Mil will be absolutely worthless in this circumstance. They will stand around for 3 days debating who the IC is, while the terrorists rape, murder and harden the target. Then when all the dunkin doughnut fatboys and squeezed into their multi-cam kool guy kit, the terrorists blow up the school, kill all the kids, a few of the cops, and then we will have some gun control bills introduced into congress. You harden the target. Armed guards or, preferrably, armed teachers. Once they are in, you are fucked. This in spades. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 6:17:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LE/Mil will be absolutely worthless in this circumstance. They will stand around for 3 days debating who the IC is, while the terrorists rape, murder and harden the target. Then when all the dunkin doughnut fatboys and squeezed into their multi-cam kool guy kit, the terrorists blow up the school, kill all the kids, a few of the cops, and then we will have some gun control bills introduced into congress. You harden the target. Armed guards or, preferrably, armed teachers. Once they are in, you are fucked. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The problem is what if they manage to do this in our country? What will we do? What if they take down several schools at once? The islamists will try again so hopefully our LE/Mil are ready for this. LE/Mil will be absolutely worthless in this circumstance. They will stand around for 3 days debating who the IC is, while the terrorists rape, murder and harden the target. Then when all the dunkin doughnut fatboys and squeezed into their multi-cam kool guy kit, the terrorists blow up the school, kill all the kids, a few of the cops, and then we will have some gun control bills introduced into congress. You harden the target. Armed guards or, preferrably, armed teachers. Once they are in, you are fucked. This in spades. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 6:19:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When there's 30+ terrorists taking over a school that has 1 SRO, there's not much of a chance of fending off the attack. That's why having 1-in-10 teachers armed is critical. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 6:23:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem with a situation like this is I believe it would be treated as hostage situation instead of an active shooter. My opinion on this is not popular with police brass but I think any hostage type situation should be treated as an active shooter, teams form up, hunt down and kill the bad guys. There will more than likely be innocents killed but if you wait then it will be even harder to rescue them. +1 Waiting is NOT the solution. Waiting only adds to the problem. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 6:31:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You would be honestly better off with a posse that went in immediately under police leadership. You have less than one hour before they would all be in the gymnasium and the bombs strung up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The problem is what if they manage to do this in our country? What will we do? What if they take down several schools at once? The islamists will try again so hopefully our LE/Mil are ready for this. LE/Mil will be absolutely worthless in this circumstance. They will stand around for 3 days debating who the IC is, while the terrorists rape, murder and harden the target. Then when all the dunkin doughnut fatboys and squeezed into their multi-cam kool guy kit, the terrorists blow up the school, kill all the kids, a few of the cops, and then we will have some gun control bills introduced into congress. You harden the target. Armed guards or, preferrably, armed teachers. Once they are in, you are fucked. You would be honestly better off with a posse that went in immediately under police leadership. You have less than one hour before they would all be in the gymnasium and the bombs strung up. The good news is most of American cops have active shooter training and some long arms. They are well better prepared than most police. But if this goes down in Extorris's AO, (which it probably will) we be fucked. But if you want to get the US pissed off enough to go on a kill-spree to end all kill-sprees, this would be how.
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Posted: 9/1/2014 6:43:22 PM EDT
[#14]
NYC?
Well, thats too bad, I guess. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 6:46:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No casualties is unreasonable. But the media will be in full retard mode Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bama & Sylvan are spot on. The PTB will want to consider all the options rather than solve the problem before the bad guys are solidly in place. Give a determined force a day or two to harden a location and it will take a serious force with breaching charges to make an entrance. No casualties is unreasonable. But the media will be in full retard mode |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 6:49:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Could easily happen anywhere in the world. I pray that it does not.
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Posted: 9/1/2014 8:12:01 PM EDT
[#17]
The Russian knockout gas plan might seem retarded but I believe in a Beslann type situation the hostage takers wont be interested in negotiations and they WILL kill children.
The fuck up in the Russian gas plan was the complete incompetence of the Russians themselves at the time. Like Bama said move as quickly as possible and try and take them before they can get really dug in. In such a situation you know children will die and that's tragic but the simple fact remains that Islamic terrorists are not some robber you could buy off the usual helicopter and 1 million in cash in unmarked bills. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 8:15:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are mis understood. You all read the koran out of context You don't speak Arabic so you can't understand the true koran The US support of Israel is to blame The Jews are to blame Western imperialism is to blame I know you're being sarcastic but in all seriousness, fuck the koran and all the misery it has brought to the world. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 8:17:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Russian knockout gas plan might seem retarded but I believe in a Beslann type situation the hostage takers wont be interested in negotiations and they WILL kill children. The fuck up in the Russian gas plan was the complete incompetence of the Russians themselves at the time. Like Bama said move as quickly as possible and try and take them before they can get really dug in. In such a situation you know children will die and that's tragic but the simple fact remains that Islamic terrorists are not some robber you could buy off the usual helicopter and 1 million in cash in unmarked bills. I'm not sure if it's true but I read somewhere a long while back that one of the terrorists was standing on a dead man trigger that was linked to the bombs that were strung up above the hostages. The gas method might not work so well if he fell off the dead man trigger. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 8:28:37 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LE/Mil will be absolutely worthless in this circumstance. They will stand around for 3 days debating who the IC is, while the terrorists rape, murder and harden the target. Then when all the dunkin doughnut fatboys and squeezed into their multi-cam kool guy kit, the terrorists blow up the school, kill all the kids, a few of the cops, and then we will have some gun control bills introduced into congress. You harden the target. Armed guards or, preferrably, armed teachers. Once they are in, you are fucked. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The problem is what if they manage to do this in our country? What will we do? What if they take down several schools at once? The islamists will try again so hopefully our LE/Mil are ready for this. LE/Mil will be absolutely worthless in this circumstance. They will stand around for 3 days debating who the IC is, while the terrorists rape, murder and harden the target. Then when all the dunkin doughnut fatboys and squeezed into their multi-cam kool guy kit, the terrorists blow up the school, kill all the kids, a few of the cops, and then we will have some gun control bills introduced into congress. You harden the target. Armed guards or, preferrably, armed teachers. Once they are in, you are fucked. Pretty much. The only thing that will keep the terrorists from accomplishing their "mission" will be armed good guys that are present when such an attack begins. And that is going to require more than one police officer that may be stationed at the school. Ideally, you would have 20 or more armed and trained people in each school. And even then you're still going to suffer losses, maybe horrendous losses. But with armed staff present, it could at least prevent an entire school from being overrun and everyone taken hostage. Every terrorist committed to such an attack is going to have a key role. Ventilate a few of them and suddenly gaps open. Opportunities for escape will develop. If you let them gain full entry and round up everyone in the building, at that point they are all pretty much fucked. Such an attack has to be defeated at the outset. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 8:47:43 PM EDT
[#21]
remember the dead....and never forget those who perpetrated this evilness. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 9:06:44 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This will absolutely, with no doubt in my mind, happen in our lifetime. The "media" coverage blitz on it will make 9/11 pale in the comparison in it's coverage as they come to feed. And our leaders continue to play the fiddle GOLF...
FIFY I was in a training class and watched a camcorder shot video of some blond haired blue eyed guys and some head scarfed up dark skinned guys run into a ruined building in about 8 pairs. Then down the long hallway the first 4 pairs would split off and waited by doors into the first 4 rooms(2 on either side of hall), the rest kept going down the hallway and they were roughly synchronized with 6 pairs of guys hitting 6 rooms simultaneously. the final 2 sets ran down another hallway. The rooms camera went into a room as they pair went in they were back to back and fired 3 rounds at one target that was average size and then executed it with a pistol shot(one guy pistol one guy ak). Between the "all the snackbars" you could hear in the back ground the same thing happening in other rooms(2-3 shots, then an aimed shot). The instructor asked us what we thought and I was like ok some ROP's training. Then he drew out the basic blue print of the building on a whiteboard, looked like a largish hallway with 3 rooms on either side, and some sort of middle room. Then he stilled the video on the target, it was an adult size target. The other targets were about stomach high. There was a blackboard on the wall and some jacked up rusted desks. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 9:12:31 PM EDT
[#23]
With so many of our combat vets trained in MOUT, it should be relatively easy to put together a volunteer-team coordinating and training with local LE agencies to respond to incidents such as this. Firearm instructors, 3-Gunners, and other competition shooters could be looked at to fill out such a team, as well. Local medical professionals could be included to provide triage and medical coordination.
I hope this becomes the pilot-program of the future. Maybe even give it a nice name to promote this among the community, something like "Minutemen"... |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 9:22:28 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure if it's true but I read somewhere a long while back that one of the terrorists was standing on a dead man trigger that was linked to the bombs that were strung up above the hostages. The gas method might not work so well if he fell off the dead man trigger. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Russian knockout gas plan might seem retarded but I believe in a Beslann type situation the hostage takers wont be interested in negotiations and they WILL kill children. The fuck up in the Russian gas plan was the complete incompetence of the Russians themselves at the time. Like Bama said move as quickly as possible and try and take them before they can get really dug in. In such a situation you know children will die and that's tragic but the simple fact remains that Islamic terrorists are not some robber you could buy off the usual helicopter and 1 million in cash in unmarked bills. I'm not sure if it's true but I read somewhere a long while back that one of the terrorists was standing on a dead man trigger that was linked to the bombs that were strung up above the hostages. The gas method might not work so well if he fell off the dead man trigger. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 9:39:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lets be clear... the hostages were never going to be set free! bogus negotiations were for public perception. reasonable people don't take women and children hostage. reasonable people don't execute young boys and rape little girls. they were prepared for and did die for ultimate snackbar. hopefully this type of cowardice never happens again. the worst crime is a crime against a innocent child. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Russian knockout gas plan might seem retarded but I believe in a Beslann type situation the hostage takers wont be interested in negotiations and they WILL kill children. The fuck up in the Russian gas plan was the complete incompetence of the Russians themselves at the time. Like Bama said move as quickly as possible and try and take them before they can get really dug in. In such a situation you know children will die and that's tragic but the simple fact remains that Islamic terrorists are not some robber you could buy off the usual helicopter and 1 million in cash in unmarked bills. I'm not sure if it's true but I read somewhere a long while back that one of the terrorists was standing on a dead man trigger that was linked to the bombs that were strung up above the hostages. The gas method might not work so well if he fell off the dead man trigger. Believe me I know they're on a suicide mission to do as much damage as possible. I just don't know how we're going to mitigate our losses should this ever happen. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 9:42:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Believe me I know they're on a suicide mission to do as much damage as possible. I just don't know how we're going to mitigate our losses should this ever happen. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Russian knockout gas plan might seem retarded but I believe in a Beslann type situation the hostage takers wont be interested in negotiations and they WILL kill children. The fuck up in the Russian gas plan was the complete incompetence of the Russians themselves at the time. Like Bama said move as quickly as possible and try and take them before they can get really dug in. In such a situation you know children will die and that's tragic but the simple fact remains that Islamic terrorists are not some robber you could buy off the usual helicopter and 1 million in cash in unmarked bills. I'm not sure if it's true but I read somewhere a long while back that one of the terrorists was standing on a dead man trigger that was linked to the bombs that were strung up above the hostages. The gas method might not work so well if he fell off the dead man trigger. Believe me I know they're on a suicide mission to do as much damage as possible. I just don't know how we're going to mitigate our losses should this ever happen. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 9:47:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The islamists will try again so hopefully our LE/Mil are ready for this. From what I've read here in GD most don't want LE equipped or trained to be ready for this so good luck getting the military there fast enough. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 9:48:26 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With so many of our combat vets trained in MOUT, it should be relatively easy to put together a volunteer-team coordinating and training with local LE agencies to respond to incidents such as this. Firearm instructors, 3-Gunners, and other competition shooters could be looked at to fill out such a team, as well. Local medical professionals could be included to provide triage and medical coordination. 
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Posted: 9/1/2014 10:01:45 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With so many of our combat vets trained in MOUT, it should be relatively easy to put together a volunteer-team coordinating and training with local LE agencies to respond to incidents such as this. Firearm instructors, 3-Gunners, and other competition shooters could be looked at to fill out such a team, as well. Local medical professionals could be included to provide triage and medical coordination. I hope this becomes the pilot-program of the future. Maybe even give it a nice name to promote this among the community, something like "Minutemen"...  |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 10:22:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope your joking though I know your not
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
With so many of our combat vets trained in MOUT, it should be relatively easy to put together a volunteer-team coordinating and training with local LE agencies to respond to incidents such as this. Firearm instructors, 3-Gunners, and other competition shooters could be looked at to fill out such a team, as well. Local medical professionals could be included to provide triage and medical coordination. I hope this becomes the pilot-program of the future. Maybe even give it a nice name to promote this among the community, something like "Minutemen"...
Would it not be a viable option for rural areas that would take considerable time for a large-scale LE response? |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 10:24:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would it not be a viable option for rural areas that would take considerable time for a large-scale LE response? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: With so many of our combat vets trained in MOUT, it should be relatively easy to put together a volunteer-team coordinating and training with local LE agencies to respond to incidents such as this. Firearm instructors, 3-Gunners, and other competition shooters could be looked at to fill out such a team, as well. Local medical professionals could be included to provide triage and medical coordination. I hope this becomes the pilot-program of the future. Maybe even give it a nice name to promote this among the community, something like "Minutemen"... Would it not be a viable option for rural areas that would take considerable time for a large-scale LE response? |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:02:57 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
when it does happen the only thing to do is call in the army rangers and have them do what they are trained to do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The problem is what if they manage to do this in our country? What will we do? What if they take down several schools at once? The islamists will try again so hopefully our LE/Mil are ready for this. LE/Mil will be absolutely worthless in this circumstance. They will stand around for 3 days debating who the IC is, while the terrorists rape, murder and harden the target. Then when all the dunkin doughnut fatboys and squeezed into their multi-cam kool guy kit, the terrorists blow up the school, kill all the kids, a few of the cops, and then we will have some gun control bills introduced into congress. You harden the target. Armed guards or, preferrably, armed teachers. Once they are in, you are fucked. When the calls comes in Tuesday morning at 8:30 from Thatcher Idaho, Tensleep Wyoming and Heider Alaska how soon can they be there ? (Just something to think about) |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:06:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When the calls comes in Tuesday morning at 8:30 from Thatcher Idaho, Tensleep Wyoming and Heider Alaska how soon can they be there ? (Just something to think about) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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The problem is what if they manage to do this in our country? What will we do? What if they take down several schools at once? The islamists will try again so hopefully our LE/Mil are ready for this. LE/Mil will be absolutely worthless in this circumstance. They will stand around for 3 days debating who the IC is, while the terrorists rape, murder and harden the target. Then when all the dunkin doughnut fatboys and squeezed into their multi-cam kool guy kit, the terrorists blow up the school, kill all the kids, a few of the cops, and then we will have some gun control bills introduced into congress. You harden the target. Armed guards or, preferrably, armed teachers. Once they are in, you are fucked. When the calls comes in Tuesday morning at 8:30 from Thatcher Idaho, Tensleep Wyoming and Heider Alaska how soon can they be there ? (Just something to think about) And you as a parent with a child in the school will just sit by and hope for the best? I used to think the parents of Beslan were idiots, but knowing what I know now.... |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:14:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And you as a parent with a child in the school will just sit by and hope for the best? I used to think the parents of Beslan were idiots, but knowing what I know now.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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The problem is what if they manage to do this in our country? What will we do? What if they take down several schools at once? The islamists will try again so hopefully our LE/Mil are ready for this. LE/Mil will be absolutely worthless in this circumstance. They will stand around for 3 days debating who the IC is, while the terrorists rape, murder and harden the target. Then when all the dunkin doughnut fatboys and squeezed into their multi-cam kool guy kit, the terrorists blow up the school, kill all the kids, a few of the cops, and then we will have some gun control bills introduced into congress. You harden the target. Armed guards or, preferrably, armed teachers. Once they are in, you are fucked. When the calls comes in Tuesday morning at 8:30 from Thatcher Idaho, Tensleep Wyoming and Heider Alaska how soon can they be there ? (Just something to think about) And you as a parent with a child in the school will just sit by and hope for the best? I used to think the parents of Beslan were idiots, but knowing what I know now.... That was the point. 
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:19:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When the calls comes in Tuesday morning at 8:30 from Thatcher Idaho, Tensleep Wyoming and Heider Alaska how soon can they be there ? (Just something to think about) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The problem is what if they manage to do this in our country? What will we do? What if they take down several schools at once? The islamists will try again so hopefully our LE/Mil are ready for this. LE/Mil will be absolutely worthless in this circumstance. They will stand around for 3 days debating who the IC is, while the terrorists rape, murder and harden the target. Then when all the dunkin doughnut fatboys and squeezed into their multi-cam kool guy kit, the terrorists blow up the school, kill all the kids, a few of the cops, and then we will have some gun control bills introduced into congress. You harden the target. Armed guards or, preferrably, armed teachers. Once they are in, you are fucked. When the calls comes in Tuesday morning at 8:30 from Thatcher Idaho, Tensleep Wyoming and Heider Alaska how soon can they be there ? (Just something to think about) |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:21:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Free Balzac72?
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:25:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
HOURS Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
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The problem is what if they manage to do this in our country? What will we do? What if they take down several schools at once? The islamists will try again so hopefully our LE/Mil are ready for this. LE/Mil will be absolutely worthless in this circumstance. They will stand around for 3 days debating who the IC is, while the terrorists rape, murder and harden the target. Then when all the dunkin doughnut fatboys and squeezed into their multi-cam kool guy kit, the terrorists blow up the school, kill all the kids, a few of the cops, and then we will have some gun control bills introduced into congress. You harden the target. Armed guards or, preferrably, armed teachers. Once they are in, you are fucked. When the calls comes in Tuesday morning at 8:30 from Thatcher Idaho, Tensleep Wyoming and Heider Alaska how soon can they be there ? (Just something to think about) It won't be Rangers. And hours is too late. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:25:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And hours is too late. Oh well. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:27:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty sure you're referring to the incident at Platte Valley High School. The shooter did sexually assault several girls, then let all but one go. He was seated on the classroom floor with his back to the wall and had Emily K. seated on the floor directly in front of him with her back to his chest. He shot her in the head then shot himself as the team entered the room. A no-win for the good guys. Heard this from Sheriff Wegoner himself at a meeting I attended a few years ago..several years after the thing went down. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There was a school in CO that gun man came in and took hostages. The SWAT team made visual contact with the person, then back off because it was a hostage situation not an active shooter to negotiate. The guy began sexually assaulting the girls and then started shooting them. He was killed by the police but not before iirc he killed five of the kids. Pretty sure you're referring to the incident at Platte Valley High School. The shooter did sexually assault several girls, then let all but one go. He was seated on the classroom floor with his back to the wall and had Emily K. seated on the floor directly in front of him with her back to his chest. He shot her in the head then shot himself as the team entered the room. A no-win for the good guys. Heard this from Sheriff Wegoner himself at a meeting I attended a few years ago..several years after the thing went down. Thanks for the info.It's been a while. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:34:25 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It won't be Rangers. And hours is too late. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: LE/Mil will be absolutely worthless in this circumstance. They will stand around for 3 days debating who the IC is, while the terrorists rape, murder and harden the target. Then when all the dunkin doughnut fatboys and squeezed into their multi-cam kool guy kit, the terrorists blow up the school, kill all the kids, a few of the cops, and then we will have some gun control bills introduced into congress. You harden the target. Armed guards or, preferrably, armed teachers. Once they are in, you are fucked. When the calls comes in Tuesday morning at 8:30 from Thatcher Idaho, Tensleep Wyoming and Heider Alaska how soon can they be there ? (Just something to think about) It won't be Rangers. And hours is too late. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:43:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Too bad that picture isn't accurate. 42 terrorists, yes. But there were close to 900 hostages, not 129. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Something like that if it happened here the response would be completely different at least in the public's eye. The Chechen's had a strong resolve & the Russians? Well they tend to go in with a machete rather then a scalpel. http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Spetsnaz-Mission-Accomplished.jpg Too bad that picture isn't accurate. 42 terrorists, yes. But there were close to 900 hostages, not 129. it appears to be about the moscow theater hostage event back in 2002
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:44:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dave Grossman talked about this on Bullet Proof Mindset. Had just one school teacher been armed they could have maybe shot one of the men guarding the exits and saved a few. The horror that went on in that school for three days can surely happen here.  |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:45:13 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
With so many of our combat vets trained in MOUT, it should be relatively easy to put together a volunteer-team coordinating and training with local LE agencies to respond to incidents such as this. Firearm instructors, 3-Gunners, and other competition shooters could be looked at to fill out such a team, as well. Local medical professionals could be included to provide triage and medical coordination. Yeah the biggest problem is radio communications, not shooting. When it happens the world shows up; police, fire, media, parents, ect. Without prior planning and rehearsal you get gridlock which prevents EMS from getting to the injured. its a planning and communication problem as much as if not more than a tactical problem. the shooting part is easy. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:49:44 PM EDT
[#44]
As a teacher in a public middle school I wish I could carry. Not happening with the board of super libs though. No way I could stop an event like Beslan or even slow it down. But the children in my classroom would have a better chance of escaping. You see, my classroom is right by an exterior door. I've alreadybriefed my students that if shooting starts we aaren't sheltering in, we are breaking for the door and all running through the parkinglot and into the neighborhood. Wellthey would be aanyway, I'm going back for my daughter....
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:49:50 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dave Grossman talked about this on Bullet Proof Mindset. Had just one school teacher been armed they could have maybe shot one of the men guarding the exits and saved a few. The horror that went on in that school for three days can surely happen here. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:50:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would it not be a viable option for rural areas that would take considerable time for a large-scale LE response? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
With so many of our combat vets trained in MOUT, it should be relatively easy to put together a volunteer-team coordinating and training with local LE agencies to respond to incidents such as this. Firearm instructors, 3-Gunners, and other competition shooters could be looked at to fill out such a team, as well. Local medical professionals could be included to provide triage and medical coordination. I hope this becomes the pilot-program of the future. Maybe even give it a nice name to promote this among the community, something like "Minutemen"...
Would it not be a viable option for rural areas that would take considerable time for a large-scale LE response? Where will your command post be? You are not going to drive straight to the front door of the school. Whats your SOP for CP security so your guys can load up in some relative safety and not become a second mass casualty scene. How often are you going to reherse with the police, school staff and fire dartment and how will you communicate with them with the alarms blaring, sprinklers going off and gunfire background noise? Where is your reunification area for the parents to be matched to their kids? Where is your life flight LZ and who will provide the LZ security? This isnt a 3-gun stage. If you really want to help become a volunteer firefighter or reserve police officer. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:57:04 PM EDT
[#47]
We need to kill them now. Before this happens here.
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Posted: 9/2/2014 12:01:52 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You would be honestly better off with a posse that went in immediately under police leadership. You have less than one hour before they would all be in the gymnasium and the bombs strung up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
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The problem is what if they manage to do this in our country? What will we do? What if they take down several schools at once? The islamists will try again so hopefully our LE/Mil are ready for this. LE/Mil will be absolutely worthless in this circumstance. They will stand around for 3 days debating who the IC is, while the terrorists rape, murder and harden the target. Then when all the dunkin doughnut fatboys and squeezed into their multi-cam kool guy kit, the terrorists blow up the school, kill all the kids, a few of the cops, and then we will have some gun control bills introduced into congress. You harden the target. Armed guards or, preferrably, armed teachers. Once they are in, you are fucked. You would be honestly better off with a posse that went in immediately under police leadership. You have less than one hour before they would all be in the gymnasium and the bombs strung up. This. After the Navy Yard shooting, we've changed our policy in the DC Metro area so the first 3 units on scene go in, no matter what. No more waiting around for command to be established and the perimeter secured. |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 12:08:20 AM EDT
[#49]
They could've done the same to us anytime they wanted to over the last decade.
The only reason I don't "think" they have is that they fear a rabid, insane, "kill'em all let God sort 'em out" US response with nukes. As bad as 9/11 was it WASN'T 100+ American children slaughtered in the name of a 7th century pirate cult (With all the optics that would go with that). I don't care WHO was sitting in the WH at the time, the political pressure to "go crazy" would be off the charts. |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 12:42:36 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They could've done the same to us anytime they wanted to over the last decade. The only reason I don't "think" they have is that they fear a rabid, insane, "kill'em all let God sort 'em out" US response with nukes. As bad as 9/11 was it WASN'T 100+ American children slaughtered in the name of a 7th century pirate cult (With all the optics that would go with that). I don't care WHO was sitting in the WH at the time, the political pressure to "go crazy" would be off the charts. |
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