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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:25:12 PM EDT
[#1]
This is a pretty good study that was done on diesel additives.
http://www.jatonkam35s.com/DeuceTechnicalManuals/Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf As far as injector cleaner goes... just buy a bottle of injector cleaner. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:26:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a pretty good study that was done on diesel additives. http://www.jatonkam35s.com/DeuceTechnicalManuals/Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf As far as injector cleaner goes... just buy a bottle of injector cleaner. But..but..witch hazel and spirits of campher |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:28:39 PM EDT
[#3]
Froglube or go home
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:51:56 PM EDT
[#4]
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My Bro-in-law owns a large auto repair shop and he runs his big diesel wrecker using old recovered transmission fluid from the lube center. Has nearly a half million miles on this wrecker and is also adding it to his $600K motorhome with a 500hp cummins. No problems and saves a lot of money doing it. He owns an auto shop and has a 600K motorhome? Wow, business must be booming. I'd be happy with a 100K motorhome... |
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Posted: 8/27/2014 1:33:27 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryAll the MMO fans should read this study closely. MMO did not do well in this test, which was for fuel lubricity only. In fact, test results showed that it reduced fuel lubricity, the opposite of what it was supposed to do. I wish we could get biodiesel around here, but both plants that used to open 5 years or so ago closed and I haven't found any substitutes. hence, I had a couple ounces of Super Tech TC-W3 ashless 2 stroke motor oil to my fuel system. In addition, I have a total of four fuel filters on my '06 PSD, two OEM, one pre-pump fuel filter and one aux fuel tank fuel filter. |
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Posted: 8/27/2014 3:35:50 AM EDT
[#6]
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When I change the oil in any of my shit I run it thru a paper filter mix it with diesel in a bucket and dump it in my '89. That truck has been burning it for over 10 years. http://media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/153/63/1063153.gif Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The idea is that it will lube up the injectors. Any person who uses used oil in the fuel is going to spend a shit ton on injectors/pumps. Filtering does nothing. Google centrifuges. When I change the oil in any of my shit I run it thru a paper filter mix it with diesel in a bucket and dump it in my '89. That truck has been burning it for over 10 years. http://media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/153/63/1063153.gif My 01 cummins had close to 250k when I sold it, running strong with 2 cycle in just about every tank since about 20k miles. J- |
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Posted: 8/27/2014 6:45:22 AM EDT
[#7]
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He owns an auto shop and has a 600K motorhome? Wow, business must be booming. I'd be happy with a 100K motorhome... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My Bro-in-law owns a large auto repair shop and he runs his big diesel wrecker using old recovered transmission fluid from the lube center. Has nearly a half million miles on this wrecker and is also adding it to his $600K motorhome with a 500hp cummins. No problems and saves a lot of money doing it. He owns an auto shop and has a 600K motorhome? Wow, business must be booming. I'd be happy with a 100K motorhome... Say bye bye to that common rail. |
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Posted: 8/27/2014 11:52:29 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He owns an auto shop and has a 600K motorhome? Wow, business must be booming. I'd be happy with a 100K motorhome... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My Bro-in-law owns a large auto repair shop and he runs his big diesel wrecker using old recovered transmission fluid from the lube center. Has nearly a half million miles on this wrecker and is also adding it to his $600K motorhome with a 500hp cummins. No problems and saves a lot of money doing it. He owns an auto shop and has a 600K motorhome? Wow, business must be booming. I'd be happy with a 100K motorhome... Very large shop and yes the guy has done very very well. Wise with his money and a complete slave driver to work for also. The motorhome is part of their soon to be retirement plans. Actually it was $1 million plus bought used for the $600K. |
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Posted: 8/27/2014 11:55:46 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Say bye bye to that common rail. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My Bro-in-law owns a large auto repair shop and he runs his big diesel wrecker using old recovered transmission fluid from the lube center. Has nearly a half million miles on this wrecker and is also adding it to his $600K motorhome with a 500hp cummins. No problems and saves a lot of money doing it. He owns an auto shop and has a 600K motorhome? Wow, business must be booming. I'd be happy with a 100K motorhome... Say bye bye to that common rail. Trust me this guy knows what he is doing. One of the smartest people I know on the planet. He did not become as successful as he is by doing dumb stuff!!!! |
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Posted: 8/27/2014 1:26:28 PM EDT
[#10]
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Trust me this guy knows what he is doing. One of the smartest people I know on the planet. He did not become as successful as he is by doing dumb stuff!!!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My Bro-in-law owns a large auto repair shop and he runs his big diesel wrecker using old recovered transmission fluid from the lube center. Has nearly a half million miles on this wrecker and is also adding it to his $600K motorhome with a 500hp cummins. No problems and saves a lot of money doing it. He owns an auto shop and has a 600K motorhome? Wow, business must be booming. I'd be happy with a 100K motorhome... Say bye bye to that common rail. Trust me this guy knows what he is doing. One of the smartest people I know on the planet. He did not become as successful as he is by doing dumb stuff!!!! On the scale of things, that's pretty dumb. I'm in the lubricants business. ATF and Fuel additives have nothing in common. And just because 'it works for him' - as for documentation. When's the last time he's done injectors on the motor? (Don't tell me never. I own over 150 trucks.) How about rods and mains? How often does he change fuel filters? All adds up. Changing fuel filters on a C15 or an ISX is over $100 alone in just filters, let alone labor + products. Facts > Anecdotes. |
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Posted: 8/27/2014 6:05:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Does Colorado get winter diesel? I am a heavy duty mechanic and we frequently get American truckers with fuel that has gelled because of the cold.
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Posted: 8/27/2014 6:38:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On the scale of things, that's pretty dumb. I'm in the lubricants business. ATF and Fuel additives have nothing in common. And just because 'it works for him' - as for documentation. When's the last time he's done injectors on the motor? (Don't tell me never. I own over 150 trucks.) How about rods and mains? How often does he change fuel filters? All adds up. Changing fuel filters on a C15 or an ISX is over $100 alone in just filters, let alone labor + products. Facts > Anecdotes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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My Bro-in-law owns a large auto repair shop and he runs his big diesel wrecker using old recovered transmission fluid from the lube center. Has nearly a half million miles on this wrecker and is also adding it to his $600K motorhome with a 500hp cummins. No problems and saves a lot of money doing it. He owns an auto shop and has a 600K motorhome? Wow, business must be booming. I'd be happy with a 100K motorhome... Say bye bye to that common rail. Trust me this guy knows what he is doing. One of the smartest people I know on the planet. He did not become as successful as he is by doing dumb stuff!!!! On the scale of things, that's pretty dumb. I'm in the lubricants business. ATF and Fuel additives have nothing in common. And just because 'it works for him' - as for documentation. When's the last time he's done injectors on the motor? (Don't tell me never. I own over 150 trucks.) How about rods and mains? How often does he change fuel filters? All adds up. Changing fuel filters on a C15 or an ISX is over $100 alone in just filters, let alone labor + products. Facts > Anecdotes. In case you missed it he is in the auto repair business for over 40 years now with a multi million operation. He knows WTF he is doing! As far as specifics I cannot answer because I do not know. Only the fact he is using quite a bit of recycled ATF (he has the machines) as fuel. |
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Posted: 8/27/2014 6:53:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Not so good on common rail applications but I have run filtered used atf in my 2000 7.3 since I got it in 2003. Not talkin just a little either, you can put 25 gallons of atf in and top of the tank with diesel and the old 7.3 will run like a champ. Better mileage on atf than on straight diesel, I replaced the transfer pump at 190,000 miles and finally replaced injectors last fall at around 240,000. As long as it is well filtered it will not bother the older motors.
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Posted: 8/27/2014 7:12:10 PM EDT
[#14]
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In case you missed it he is in the auto repair business for over 40 years now with a multi million operation. He knows WTF he is doing! As far as specifics I cannot answer because I do not know. Only the fact he is using quite a bit of recycled ATF (he has the machines) as fuel. You just completely contradicted yourself in your own paragraph And missed the point of my statement. Just because you think he knows wtf he is doing doesn't mean he does. There are people who think the ditch bitch of Baghdad knows it all. But he doesn't. Maintenance records. Injector life. Fuel pump life. Scaring on pistons / heads/ cylinder sleeves. Filter change intervals. Those are facts. Case in point of people not knowing wtf they're doing in a multi million dollar operation. KAG aka Kenan advantage group. Largest tank truck company in the US now. They went to diesel 10w30 on extended oil drain intervals - 35000 miles. They were told by their sales reps, maintenance director and a lot of other people they could save money doing it this way. But now they have over 100 units down because they spun bearings in the engine. 13L CAT and Cummins motors. That someone who thought they knew wtf they were talking about just cost KAG probably a million to two million dollars. If not more. They weren't my customer before but I think they might be now. I sell millions gallons of lubricants with tens of million gallons of fuel a year. So I see this all the time. People who have their own snake oil and says it works. With no proof of course. My family has been in business for 95 years... So if years in business is your level of 'knows shit' we top it. Beyond that we wouldn't be one of the largest marketers in the US of lubricants for no reason. |
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Posted: 8/27/2014 7:17:38 PM EDT
[#15]
I use Opti Lube. It was top rated in a competition between additives. It adds some of the lubricity removed from ULSD diesel.
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Posted: 8/28/2014 6:27:31 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You just completely contradicted yourself in your own paragraph And missed the point of my statement. Just because you think he knows wtf he is doing doesn't mean he does. There are people who think the ditch bitch of Baghdad knows it all. But he doesn't. Maintenance records. Injector life. Fuel pump life. Scaring on pistons / heads/ cylinder sleeves. Filter change intervals. Those are facts. Case in point of people not knowing wtf they're doing in a multi million dollar operation. KAG aka Kenan advantage group. Largest tank truck company in the US now. They went to diesel 10w30 on extended oil drain intervals - 35000 miles. They were told by their sales reps, maintenance director and a lot of other people they could save money doing it this way. But now they have over 100 units down because they spun bearings in the engine. 13L CAT and Cummins motors. That someone who thought they knew wtf they were talking about just cost KAG probably a million to two million dollars. If not more. They weren't my customer before but I think they might be now. I sell millions gallons of lubricants with tens of million gallons of fuel a year. So I see this all the time. People who have their own snake oil and says it works. With no proof of course. My family has been in business for 95 years... So if years in business is your level of 'knows shit' we top it. Beyond that we wouldn't be one of the largest marketers in the US of lubricants for no reason. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In case you missed it he is in the auto repair business for over 40 years now with a multi million operation. He knows WTF he is doing! As far as specifics I cannot answer because I do not know. Only the fact he is using quite a bit of recycled ATF (he has the machines) as fuel. You just completely contradicted yourself in your own paragraph And missed the point of my statement. Just because you think he knows wtf he is doing doesn't mean he does. There are people who think the ditch bitch of Baghdad knows it all. But he doesn't. Maintenance records. Injector life. Fuel pump life. Scaring on pistons / heads/ cylinder sleeves. Filter change intervals. Those are facts. Case in point of people not knowing wtf they're doing in a multi million dollar operation. KAG aka Kenan advantage group. Largest tank truck company in the US now. They went to diesel 10w30 on extended oil drain intervals - 35000 miles. They were told by their sales reps, maintenance director and a lot of other people they could save money doing it this way. But now they have over 100 units down because they spun bearings in the engine. 13L CAT and Cummins motors. That someone who thought they knew wtf they were talking about just cost KAG probably a million to two million dollars. If not more. They weren't my customer before but I think they might be now. I sell millions gallons of lubricants with tens of million gallons of fuel a year. So I see this all the time. People who have their own snake oil and says it works. With no proof of course. My family has been in business for 95 years... So if years in business is your level of 'knows shit' we top it. Beyond that we wouldn't be one of the largest marketers in the US of lubricants for no reason. I've never been able to find out two simple facts about modern ULSD diesel fuel, maybe you know the answers: 1. Modern ULSD is supposed to meet a certain lubricity standard and the industry has a desired lubricity standard of <520 and <460, respectively (per the diesel lubricity paper cited earlier). Has anyone ever measured actual road diesel fuel for lubricity and, if so, what were the results? 2. What do diesel fuel distributors and/or retailers use to increase diesel fuel lubricity from untreated ULSD of around 636 to the above two standards? Thanks, |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 8:05:02 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've never been able to find out two simple facts about modern ULSD diesel fuel, maybe you know the answers: 1. Modern ULSD is supposed to meet a certain lubricity standard and the industry has a desired lubricity standard of <520 and <460, respectively (per the diesel lubricity paper cited earlier). Has anyone ever measured actual road diesel fuel for lubricity and, if so, what were the results? 2. What do diesel fuel distributors and/or retailers use to increase diesel fuel lubricity from untreated ULSD of around 636 to the above two standards? Thanks, Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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In case you missed it he is in the auto repair business for over 40 years now with a multi million operation. He knows WTF he is doing! As far as specifics I cannot answer because I do not know. Only the fact he is using quite a bit of recycled ATF (he has the machines) as fuel. You just completely contradicted yourself in your own paragraph And missed the point of my statement. Just because you think he knows wtf he is doing doesn't mean he does. There are people who think the ditch bitch of Baghdad knows it all. But he doesn't. Maintenance records. Injector life. Fuel pump life. Scaring on pistons / heads/ cylinder sleeves. Filter change intervals. Those are facts. Case in point of people not knowing wtf they're doing in a multi million dollar operation. KAG aka Kenan advantage group. Largest tank truck company in the US now. They went to diesel 10w30 on extended oil drain intervals - 35000 miles. They were told by their sales reps, maintenance director and a lot of other people they could save money doing it this way. But now they have over 100 units down because they spun bearings in the engine. 13L CAT and Cummins motors. That someone who thought they knew wtf they were talking about just cost KAG probably a million to two million dollars. If not more. They weren't my customer before but I think they might be now. I sell millions gallons of lubricants with tens of million gallons of fuel a year. So I see this all the time. People who have their own snake oil and says it works. With no proof of course. My family has been in business for 95 years... So if years in business is your level of 'knows shit' we top it. Beyond that we wouldn't be one of the largest marketers in the US of lubricants for no reason. I've never been able to find out two simple facts about modern ULSD diesel fuel, maybe you know the answers: 1. Modern ULSD is supposed to meet a certain lubricity standard and the industry has a desired lubricity standard of <520 and <460, respectively (per the diesel lubricity paper cited earlier). Has anyone ever measured actual road diesel fuel for lubricity and, if so, what were the results? 2. What do diesel fuel distributors and/or retailers use to increase diesel fuel lubricity from untreated ULSD of around 636 to the above two standards? Thanks, the diesel fuel additive test pdf posted above goes over most of what you are asking. |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 10:50:59 AM EDT
[#18]
It was the convention of M35A2 drivers to add a quart of ATF in once in a while, supposedly to clean the system out and lube the pump. I did it once, never noticed much of a difference. Good clean fuel and 911 additive in the winter is all you should need.
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Posted: 8/28/2014 10:54:21 AM EDT
[#19]
you used to need to. but now it's not needed.
I might be wrong, but i believe the mechanical fuel injection on the older diesels often could stand a little extra lube? |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 10:56:30 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Say bye bye to that common rail. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: My Bro-in-law owns a large auto repair shop and he runs his big diesel wrecker using old recovered transmission fluid from the lube center. Has nearly a half million miles on this wrecker and is also adding it to his $600K motorhome with a 500hp cummins. No problems and saves a lot of money doing it. He owns an auto shop and has a 600K motorhome? Wow, business must be booming. I'd be happy with a 100K motorhome... Say bye bye to that common rail. |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 10:58:49 AM EDT
[#21]
For some reason talking about diesel engines on the internet always brings out the herp and derp.....
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Posted: 8/28/2014 11:00:07 AM EDT
[#22]
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And his engine warranty.....not good news when the engine manufacturer denies warranty coverage because the fuel test shows transmission oil. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My Bro-in-law owns a large auto repair shop and he runs his big diesel wrecker using old recovered transmission fluid from the lube center. Has nearly a half million miles on this wrecker and is also adding it to his $600K motorhome with a 500hp cummins. No problems and saves a lot of money doing it. He owns an auto shop and has a 600K motorhome? Wow, business must be booming. I'd be happy with a 100K motorhome... Say bye bye to that common rail. I forgot about that. I never dealt with cummins warranty but Ford seems to want to know exactly what caused the failure when it happens. Especially on a fuel injection issue. They know how sensitive the system is to fuel quality. Why would any diesel manufacturer want to pay for a new HPFP, Injectors etc when it might have been caused by somthing as common as water in the fuel, not to mention exotic fuel additives like ATF. |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 11:01:20 AM EDT
[#23]
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For some reason talking about diesel engines on the internet always brings out the herp and derp..... I think because they tech has changed rapidly in the past few years. Compare it to Gas engines, not much has changed besides valve timing and direct injection in gas engines. |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 11:04:11 AM EDT
[#24]
I have an 07 dmax classic with the lbz, so basically an 06. It got stolen and used as a mobile crime station for about a week before I shot the thief and got it back. I inherited about 8 diesel fuel cans and some siphon hoses that day.
Anyways, I kept about 2 gals of motor oil in the bed, the containers were still there, but the oil was gone. Pretty sure he dumped the oil into the tank, the exhaust smelled different while it was idling. Still runs good, hopefully he didn't mix some gas in it. Anyways, I run two stroke oil in it during the winter when the stations switch to #1 diesel. I guess my truck will be an experiment in alternative fuel methods. 10k miles since the incident and 60k total. |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 11:06:00 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I forgot about that. I never dealt with cummins warranty but Ford seems to want to know exactly what caused the failure when it happens. Especially on a fuel injection issue. They know how sensitive the system is to fuel quality. Why would any diesel manufacturer want to pay for a new HPFP, Injectors etc when it might have been caused by somthing as common as water in the fuel, not to mention exotic fuel additives like ATF. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My Bro-in-law owns a large auto repair shop and he runs his big diesel wrecker using old recovered transmission fluid from the lube center. Has nearly a half million miles on this wrecker and is also adding it to his $600K motorhome with a 500hp cummins. No problems and saves a lot of money doing it. He owns an auto shop and has a 600K motorhome? Wow, business must be booming. I'd be happy with a 100K motorhome... Say bye bye to that common rail. I forgot about that. I never dealt with cummins warranty but Ford seems to want to know exactly what caused the failure when it happens. Especially on a fuel injection issue. They know how sensitive the system is to fuel quality. Why would any diesel manufacturer want to pay for a new HPFP, Injectors etc when it might have been caused by somthing as common as water in the fuel, not to mention exotic fuel additives like ATF. |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 11:14:47 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I forgot about that. I never dealt with cummins warranty but Ford seems to want to know exactly what caused the failure when it happens. Especially on a fuel injection issue. They know how sensitive the system is to fuel quality. Why would any diesel manufacturer want to pay for a new HPFP, Injectors etc when it might have been caused by somthing as common as water in the fuel, not to mention exotic fuel additives like ATF. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My Bro-in-law owns a large auto repair shop and he runs his big diesel wrecker using old recovered transmission fluid from the lube center. Has nearly a half million miles on this wrecker and is also adding it to his $600K motorhome with a 500hp cummins. No problems and saves a lot of money doing it. He owns an auto shop and has a 600K motorhome? Wow, business must be booming. I'd be happy with a 100K motorhome... Say bye bye to that common rail. I forgot about that. I never dealt with cummins warranty but Ford seems to want to know exactly what caused the failure when it happens. Especially on a fuel injection issue. They know how sensitive the system is to fuel quality. Why would any diesel manufacturer want to pay for a new HPFP, Injectors etc when it might have been caused by somthing as common as water in the fuel, not to mention exotic fuel additives like ATF. Trust me...Cummins wants knows too...and I have it on good authority there are some very well paid engineers that can usually figure it out based on fail parts review. |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 11:23:58 AM EDT
[#27]
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I think because they tech has changed rapidly in the past few years. Compare it to Gas engines, not much has changed besides valve timing and direct injection in gas engines. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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For some reason talking about diesel engines on the internet always brings out the herp and derp..... I think because they tech has changed rapidly in the past few years. Compare it to Gas engines, not much has changed besides valve timing and direct injection in gas engines. This and there so much old timer bull floating around. that and in my experience up until a few years ago, people didn't by diesel's just for the hell of it like they do now. so now you have a massive influx of new diesel owners who are "in the know" when in reality all they know is that they use the green handle at the pump. 
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Posted: 8/28/2014 11:28:56 AM EDT
[#28]
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I've never been able to find out two simple facts about modern ULSD diesel fuel, maybe you know the answers: 1. Modern ULSD is supposed to meet a certain lubricity standard and the industry has a desired lubricity standard of <520 and <460, respectively (per the diesel lubricity paper cited earlier). Has anyone ever measured actual road diesel fuel for lubricity and, if so, what were the results? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In case you missed it he is in the auto repair business for over 40 years now with a multi million operation. He knows WTF he is doing! As far as specifics I cannot answer because I do not know. Only the fact he is using quite a bit of recycled ATF (he has the machines) as fuel. You just completely contradicted yourself in your own paragraph And missed the point of my statement. Just because you think he knows wtf he is doing doesn't mean he does. There are people who think the ditch bitch of Baghdad knows it all. But he doesn't. Maintenance records. Injector life. Fuel pump life. Scaring on pistons / heads/ cylinder sleeves. Filter change intervals. Those are facts. Case in point of people not knowing wtf they're doing in a multi million dollar operation. KAG aka Kenan advantage group. Largest tank truck company in the US now. They went to diesel 10w30 on extended oil drain intervals - 35000 miles. They were told by their sales reps, maintenance director and a lot of other people they could save money doing it this way. But now they have over 100 units down because they spun bearings in the engine. 13L CAT and Cummins motors. That someone who thought they knew wtf they were talking about just cost KAG probably a million to two million dollars. If not more. They weren't my customer before but I think they might be now. I sell millions gallons of lubricants with tens of million gallons of fuel a year. So I see this all the time. People who have their own snake oil and says it works. With no proof of course. My family has been in business for 95 years... So if years in business is your level of 'knows shit' we top it. Beyond that we wouldn't be one of the largest marketers in the US of lubricants for no reason. I've never been able to find out two simple facts about modern ULSD diesel fuel, maybe you know the answers: 1. Modern ULSD is supposed to meet a certain lubricity standard and the industry has a desired lubricity standard of <520 and <460, respectively (per the diesel lubricity paper cited earlier). Has anyone ever measured actual road diesel fuel for lubricity and, if so, what were the results? We (my company) sampled fuel last winter, due to the extreme cold. We took samples from: Ergon Marathon - Refinery fresh @ Canton OH & Toledo OH. Terminal Fuel out of Marathon Youngstown, Stubenville and Midland Husky - Refiner fresh @ Lima OH. Citgo - Refinery friehs @ Toledo, OH PPC - Terminal fuel (they buy foreign production lots. So it changes every week.) - at the time, Corapolis and Neville Island Sun - Refinery fresh @ Toledo. Terminal @ Akron and Cleveland. I have the results somewhere... I'll post them when I find them. I know my lubricant engineer has them somewhere in his desk. 2. What do diesel fuel distributors and/or retailers use to increase diesel fuel lubricity from untreated ULSD of around 636 to the above two standards? Thanks, Refineries have to meet the minimum API spec's for ULSD. I know for a fact, a lot of refineries are blending additives in before shipping. I know this, because I'm very, very good friends (and one of their largest customers) with the people who make the majority of diesel fuel additive and diesel fuel additive components in the US. Fuel distributors, you have to read carefully on where you get quoted from. I sell only pre-treated fuel. We treat it with Afton Chemical's OTR series of additives. (Summer and winter respectively. Winter starting Nov 1 and Summer starting April 1.) Unless you specifically request transport quantity (7500 gallons) of untreated fuel. But, it is not the fuel marketer's job to meet API minimum specifications. It is the terminal's job to do that and have the test data for that batch. |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 11:35:24 AM EDT
[#29]
No way to quantify it, by I think my broke-ass Duramax runs better on Valero fuel than others.
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Posted: 8/28/2014 11:37:06 AM EDT
[#30]
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I had a customer with a tow truck back in the 90's. an old gm 6.5. he would eat an injection pump about every 6 months. i hadhim start adding about 6 ounces of marvel mystery oil to a tank of fuel and he never ate another pump. I wouldnt do it on the newer design diesels though that were made with low sulphur fuel in mind. The guy wasn't burning something with low lubrication like kerosene in it, was he? |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 2:01:37 PM EDT
[#31]
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the diesel fuel additive test pdf posted above goes over most of what you are asking. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In case you missed it he is in the auto repair business for over 40 years now with a multi million operation. He knows WTF he is doing! As far as specifics I cannot answer because I do not know. Only the fact he is using quite a bit of recycled ATF (he has the machines) as fuel. You just completely contradicted yourself in your own paragraph And missed the point of my statement. Just because you think he knows wtf he is doing doesn't mean he does. There are people who think the ditch bitch of Baghdad knows it all. But he doesn't. Maintenance records. Injector life. Fuel pump life. Scaring on pistons / heads/ cylinder sleeves. Filter change intervals. Those are facts. Case in point of people not knowing wtf they're doing in a multi million dollar operation. KAG aka Kenan advantage group. Largest tank truck company in the US now. They went to diesel 10w30 on extended oil drain intervals - 35000 miles. They were told by their sales reps, maintenance director and a lot of other people they could save money doing it this way. But now they have over 100 units down because they spun bearings in the engine. 13L CAT and Cummins motors. That someone who thought they knew wtf they were talking about just cost KAG probably a million to two million dollars. If not more. They weren't my customer before but I think they might be now. I sell millions gallons of lubricants with tens of million gallons of fuel a year. So I see this all the time. People who have their own snake oil and says it works. With no proof of course. My family has been in business for 95 years... So if years in business is your level of 'knows shit' we top it. Beyond that we wouldn't be one of the largest marketers in the US of lubricants for no reason. I've never been able to find out two simple facts about modern ULSD diesel fuel, maybe you know the answers: 1. Modern ULSD is supposed to meet a certain lubricity standard and the industry has a desired lubricity standard of <520 and <460, respectively (per the diesel lubricity paper cited earlier). Has anyone ever measured actual road diesel fuel for lubricity and, if so, what were the results? 2. What do diesel fuel distributors and/or retailers use to increase diesel fuel lubricity from untreated ULSD of around 636 to the above two standards? Thanks, the diesel fuel additive test pdf posted above goes over most of what you are asking. You either didn't bother to read the .pdf lubricity study or didn't bother to read my post or both, because the .pdf lubricity study does nothing to answer either one of those questions.
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Posted: 8/28/2014 2:04:10 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We (my company) sampled fuel last winter, due to the extreme cold. We took samples from: Ergon Marathon - Refinery fresh @ Canton OH & Toledo OH. Terminal Fuel out of Marathon Youngstown, Stubenville and Midland Husky - Refiner fresh @ Lima OH. Citgo - Refinery friehs @ Toledo, OH PPC - Terminal fuel (they buy foreign production lots. So it changes every week.) - at the time, Corapolis and Neville Island Sun - Refinery fresh @ Toledo. Terminal @ Akron and Cleveland. I have the results somewhere... I'll post them when I find them. I know my lubricant engineer has them somewhere in his desk. Refineries have to meet the minimum API spec's for ULSD. I know for a fact, a lot of refineries are blending additives in before shipping. I know this, because I'm very, very good friends (and one of their largest customers) with the people who make the majority of diesel fuel additive and diesel fuel additive components in the US. Fuel distributors, you have to read carefully on where you get quoted from. I sell only pre-treated fuel. We treat it with Afton Chemical's OTR series of additives. (Summer and winter respectively. Winter starting Nov 1 and Summer starting April 1.) Unless you specifically request transport quantity (7500 gallons) of untreated fuel. But, it is not the fuel marketer's job to meet API minimum specifications. It is the terminal's job to do that and have the test data for that batch. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In case you missed it he is in the auto repair business for over 40 years now with a multi million operation. He knows WTF he is doing! As far as specifics I cannot answer because I do not know. Only the fact he is using quite a bit of recycled ATF (he has the machines) as fuel. You just completely contradicted yourself in your own paragraph And missed the point of my statement. Just because you think he knows wtf he is doing doesn't mean he does. There are people who think the ditch bitch of Baghdad knows it all. But he doesn't. Maintenance records. Injector life. Fuel pump life. Scaring on pistons / heads/ cylinder sleeves. Filter change intervals. Those are facts. Case in point of people not knowing wtf they're doing in a multi million dollar operation. KAG aka Kenan advantage group. Largest tank truck company in the US now. They went to diesel 10w30 on extended oil drain intervals - 35000 miles. They were told by their sales reps, maintenance director and a lot of other people they could save money doing it this way. But now they have over 100 units down because they spun bearings in the engine. 13L CAT and Cummins motors. That someone who thought they knew wtf they were talking about just cost KAG probably a million to two million dollars. If not more. They weren't my customer before but I think they might be now. I sell millions gallons of lubricants with tens of million gallons of fuel a year. So I see this all the time. People who have their own snake oil and says it works. With no proof of course. My family has been in business for 95 years... So if years in business is your level of 'knows shit' we top it. Beyond that we wouldn't be one of the largest marketers in the US of lubricants for no reason. I've never been able to find out two simple facts about modern ULSD diesel fuel, maybe you know the answers: 1. Modern ULSD is supposed to meet a certain lubricity standard and the industry has a desired lubricity standard of <520 and <460, respectively (per the diesel lubricity paper cited earlier). Has anyone ever measured actual road diesel fuel for lubricity and, if so, what were the results? We (my company) sampled fuel last winter, due to the extreme cold. We took samples from: Ergon Marathon - Refinery fresh @ Canton OH & Toledo OH. Terminal Fuel out of Marathon Youngstown, Stubenville and Midland Husky - Refiner fresh @ Lima OH. Citgo - Refinery friehs @ Toledo, OH PPC - Terminal fuel (they buy foreign production lots. So it changes every week.) - at the time, Corapolis and Neville Island Sun - Refinery fresh @ Toledo. Terminal @ Akron and Cleveland. I have the results somewhere... I'll post them when I find them. I know my lubricant engineer has them somewhere in his desk. 2. What do diesel fuel distributors and/or retailers use to increase diesel fuel lubricity from untreated ULSD of around 636 to the above two standards? Thanks, Refineries have to meet the minimum API spec's for ULSD. I know for a fact, a lot of refineries are blending additives in before shipping. I know this, because I'm very, very good friends (and one of their largest customers) with the people who make the majority of diesel fuel additive and diesel fuel additive components in the US. Fuel distributors, you have to read carefully on where you get quoted from. I sell only pre-treated fuel. We treat it with Afton Chemical's OTR series of additives. (Summer and winter respectively. Winter starting Nov 1 and Summer starting April 1.) Unless you specifically request transport quantity (7500 gallons) of untreated fuel. But, it is not the fuel marketer's job to meet API minimum specifications. It is the terminal's job to do that and have the test data for that batch. Ok, good post the test results please. I *assume* that the Afton Chemical OTR stuff is for lubricity or for winter antigelling or....? I also take it that it's not available over the counter to most of the rest of us? |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 7:08:00 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have an 07 dmax classic with the lbz, so basically an 06. It got stolen and used as a mobile crime station for about a week before I shot the thief and got it back. I inherited about 8 diesel fuel cans and some siphon hoses that day. Anyways, I kept about 2 gals of motor oil in the bed, the containers were still there, but the oil was gone. Pretty sure he dumped the oil into the tank, the exhaust smelled different while it was idling. Still runs good, hopefully he didn't mix some gas in it. Anyways, I run two stroke oil in it during the winter when the stations switch to #1 diesel. I guess my truck will be an experiment in alternative fuel methods. 10k miles since the incident and 60k total. Isn't all diesel in the US #2 now? Whether its on-road or off-road, or summer or winter blend, I thought it was all #2 aka ULSD? I thought winter diesel just had some bio blended into it...? |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 7:14:37 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You either didn't bother to read the .pdf lubricity study or didn't bother to read my post or both, because the .pdf lubricity study does nothing to answer either one of those questions.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In case you missed it he is in the auto repair business for over 40 years now with a multi million operation. He knows WTF he is doing! As far as specifics I cannot answer because I do not know. Only the fact he is using quite a bit of recycled ATF (he has the machines) as fuel. You just completely contradicted yourself in your own paragraph And missed the point of my statement. Just because you think he knows wtf he is doing doesn't mean he does. There are people who think the ditch bitch of Baghdad knows it all. But he doesn't. Maintenance records. Injector life. Fuel pump life. Scaring on pistons / heads/ cylinder sleeves. Filter change intervals. Those are facts. Case in point of people not knowing wtf they're doing in a multi million dollar operation. KAG aka Kenan advantage group. Largest tank truck company in the US now. They went to diesel 10w30 on extended oil drain intervals - 35000 miles. They were told by their sales reps, maintenance director and a lot of other people they could save money doing it this way. But now they have over 100 units down because they spun bearings in the engine. 13L CAT and Cummins motors. That someone who thought they knew wtf they were talking about just cost KAG probably a million to two million dollars. If not more. They weren't my customer before but I think they might be now. I sell millions gallons of lubricants with tens of million gallons of fuel a year. So I see this all the time. People who have their own snake oil and says it works. With no proof of course. My family has been in business for 95 years... So if years in business is your level of 'knows shit' we top it. Beyond that we wouldn't be one of the largest marketers in the US of lubricants for no reason. I've never been able to find out two simple facts about modern ULSD diesel fuel, maybe you know the answers: 1. Modern ULSD is supposed to meet a certain lubricity standard and the industry has a desired lubricity standard of <520 and <460, respectively (per the diesel lubricity paper cited earlier). Has anyone ever measured actual road diesel fuel for lubricity and, if so, what were the results? 2. What do diesel fuel distributors and/or retailers use to increase diesel fuel lubricity from untreated ULSD of around 636 to the above two standards? Thanks, the diesel fuel additive test pdf posted above goes over most of what you are asking. You either didn't bother to read the .pdf lubricity study or didn't bother to read my post or both, because the .pdf lubricity study does nothing to answer either one of those questions.
The pdf didn't mention lubricity standards? I might have misread. sorry. |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 7:18:48 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Yep...I have been the messenger. In some cases depending on the customer we will help with some policy dollars.....but in the case of the motorhome dude he would be eating a 6 new injectors, hpfp etc..... They he would hop on the cummins boards and say how cummins isn't paying for his repair. You should see the bitch fest that goes on in the powerstroke forums when bros don't drain their water separator, use shitty diesel, or put dpf fluid in the fuel tank and have their warranty claim denied. |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 7:19:46 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote History[b]Originally Posted By jblomenbee...Cummins wants knows too...and I have it on good authority there are some very well paid engineers that can usually figure it out based on fail parts review.
makes sense to me, why wouldn't you want to know exactly why a part failed. |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 8:14:28 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isn't all diesel in the US #2 now? Whether its on-road or off-road, or summer or winter blend, I thought it was all #2 aka ULSD? I thought winter diesel just had some bio blended into it...? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have an 07 dmax classic with the lbz, so basically an 06. It got stolen and used as a mobile crime station for about a week before I shot the thief and got it back. I inherited about 8 diesel fuel cans and some siphon hoses that day. Anyways, I kept about 2 gals of motor oil in the bed, the containers were still there, but the oil was gone. Pretty sure he dumped the oil into the tank, the exhaust smelled different while it was idling. Still runs good, hopefully he didn't mix some gas in it. Anyways, I run two stroke oil in it during the winter when the stations switch to #1 diesel. I guess my truck will be an experiment in alternative fuel methods. 10k miles since the incident and 60k total. Isn't all diesel in the US #2 now? Whether its on-road or off-road, or summer or winter blend, I thought it was all #2 aka ULSD? I thought winter diesel just had some bio blended into it...? Bio is way worse than normal diesel about cold weather. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 5:39:36 AM EDT
[#38]
ATF is designed to resist burning.
2 stroke oil is designed to lube and burn efficiently. Anyone putting atf in their fuel is a dumbass. Everything above is a fact. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 5:44:43 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ATF is designed to resist burning. 2 stroke oil is designed to lube and burn efficiently. Anyone putting atf in their fuel is a dumbass. Everything above is a fact. ATF also has friction modifiers in it that can harm an IP. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 6:32:38 AM EDT
[#40]
I know fuck-all about diesels, but after 9/11 I was laid off for like 5 wks, and thus flat broke. I stared burning waste ATF that I got for free from my buddy's tranny shop, and it actually ran better, and started a lot easier in the cold.
I did this almost exclusively until spring of 03 when the car rusted in half .
I sold the complete car to a crazy old German guy who wanted the motor and some interior parts. He was not at all put off when I told him what I was using for fuel. ETA: It was a 74 Mercedes 240d. Also, Greg filtered the ATF through a couple of giant sock-looking filters. The exhaust smoked a lot less, but had a nasty chemical smell. |
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