We can all dream right?

Twat placement .



It's all about twat placement .
 

cause I believe it to be an accurate statement

how is the aftermarket on this new whiz bang?

can i or .gov order parts for it from over 100 manufactures?

does it work with all existing support ie; transport cases, mags, sights, ect?

is it half the price? or twice as good? (that might help with eating cost of disposing
of current platform)

Dammit! I was going to go there!



 

Having worked in the T&E business, I can say with some degree of certainty that the govt can canx a test event for any number of reasons.  

Not the least of which would be allegations that the test design introduced bias that affects test validity.  Such an allegation in a high profile high cost test event would probably get serious scrutiny and if it was valid a re-test might be in order.  

The article makes it look like the Army didn't like the initial results so they pulled the plug.  LOL!  Testing is SCIENCE.  You test it and measure it and quantify it.  Then you write up what you KNOW about the thing and let the big wigs make their decisions based on that, or politics or anything else they like.  

The testing is impartial.  Testers are obsessive about keeping it that way.  It's what they do.

AWESOME reliability.  Unless you drop it in the mud.
Shitty firepower.
Heavy weight.
Mediocre accuracy.
Insufficient lethality.

It long known open "secret" that the M4 /m16 et.al. has serious issues. I not surprised it lost.

And I don't realty care why etc... You guys can have all the drama and endless debate about that if you like.


Just get on with replacing it with something better and stop messing with soldier lives.

What's your HK employee ID number?

You're so full of shit...

Serious issues? I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that it is the complete equal of all modern proposed replacements, but I'm not sure that not being quite as good equals serious issues. I'm also a bit surprised that the M4 in their tests had stoppages at 500rds. Of course I suppose that depends on environment.

Makes sense.

The model is better by one-an obvious evolution.



Nick

Fucken name dropper.

Not really. If working with M855A1 wasn't delimited in the contract, why would you design to it?



 

Would the m4 reliability drop be grom the m855a1 ammo and not the system itself?

 

And just like when the M14 was replaced, the old guard is huffing and puffing about how nothing could possibly be better and the logistical cost of replacement cannot be borne.

Until something "significantly" better comes along, the M4 will not be replaced.  It makes no sense to revamp the entire logistic system for a minor improvement.  The M4 will be replaced when the Plasma Rifle in the 40W range comes on line.

 My son was an armorer for 10 years in USMC and they were constantly rebuilding guns with match grade parts. He ordered them from the same companies that you or I would. Wilson was one name that I recall. Magpull was another. I used to have the list of parts (and their manufacturers) that they used for their SOCOM (IIRC!) pistols, they were standard 1911A1 frames built in the 1930s and 1940s but everything else was new manufacture. Unfortunately, WinBlows ate the file when it crashed! USMC being a smaller service probably has more leeway to do things like that than the USA. Or at least main stream USA, it's an entirely different story with special units.

 Son built customized M-16s, M-4 and 1911s. I don't know if they customized other weapons or not. Correction, he once said something about modifying M-14s. AT least to the extend of putting new modern stocks on them.

 But all of that aside, I've been involved in USA and Canadian DND weapons selection process and there's a LOT more involved than just ONE performance test!  They have to consider things like the deliver rate of new arms and ammo and all the other accoutrements, how long it will take to reequip and retrain the entire army, how long to resupply ammunition, set up supply and repair centers and on and on and on! And a BIG consideration is how is that change over going to affect the availability of armed forces in case of a war.  THEN after they make all of those studies and tests have been made,  they have to weigh the costs and if the "improvement" in accuracy, reliability, portability, fire power, etc is really worth the costs involved!  Case in point, In the 1930s, the US studied a .276" cartridge and the ordanance people wanted to adopt it due to slightly better ballistics and the fact that it required less metal (the Garand was originally designed for that cartridge) but Chief of Staff General McArthur vetoed the idea because of the huge quantity of .30-06 ammo already in stock and because it would also mean that the BAR and .30 cal machine guns would also need to be replaced (which redesign and/or replacements studies hadn't even begun at that point)  in order to maintain ammunition commonality.  In retrospec it proved to be a wise decision or else we'd have been caught going into WW II in the middle of the change over!

  Short version, you have to look at the overall picture and not just the results from one test!

Was the M4A1 modified to work with M855A1?

Needs more XM-8.  

I wasn't trying to quantify any form of time period.  I am not a purchasing agent for the US Government, nor should any of my statements be construed to be from someone in a position to cause the US Government to be contractually obligated in any way, shape, or form.

Go Steyr!

Uh oh I see they didn't release info to public.

For how much M4s supposedly suck, a lot of the Free World's HSLD units with a choice still seem to prefer them.

Whatdifferencedoesitmake.jpg

True if you only need to tweak the gas port, but it wasn't "here's 10k rds of ammo... go forth and do what you will...".   It's "come to our testing facility, here's 10k rds of ammo, here's a list of what you can and can't do, and btw if the throat gets shot out of your barrel after only 8k rds, you will only have 2k rds left to test any improvements think you can make."

It's no excuse, but 10k isn't shit in a real development program.

A lot of weird shit going on with that ammo.

Ooooh!  Nice!!!

What is that/who makes it?

Most SOF and SOC units are able to utilize COTS stuff (P-mags, parts, and accessories).  USMC armorers take care of standard Marines as well as MARSOC and some of the other, higher speed units.  

I wonder if the rifle that was ahead of the M4 was the SCAR-Light.  I believe NSW is playing with the SCAR quite a bit.

Speaking of M14s - my dad called me a few days ago wanting to know what hoops he has to jump through to get a tax stamp and get his hands on a M14E2 like he carried in Vietnam.  He hated the "new" M16 back then and his unit stayed with the M14.  He understands that the kinks have been worked out and the "Mattel" is a good rifle today.  He's in the process of acquiring a few ARs.  When I told him the price tag for a CIII M14E2, he shit a brick.

I see the M4A1's competitors are paying for favorable news coverage again.

It's about the payola.

Aligns with my recollection, and thoughts on the matter.

1.25x is good, but not enough to warrant a transition.  Something on the order of 2x is what you need to warrant a transition.

Probably the Croatian VHS-2 rifle. A bullpup with an adjustable stock!

Its a Shrike

borderline vaporware



 

 

That's not what she said.

I thought that was the ALS from Battlefield 4

It's been well known for awhile that there are many guns that will beat the M4 handily.  Just a lot of $$$ and politics to replace them.  

Bullshit, on the Bushmaster M4, properly torqued, with good ammo, (m193)
went 10,000 rounds without a breakage, cleaned every 2500 rounds.

And still had barrel life left.

TXL

AK

There are a bunch more things to consider than just Reliability and Mean Time Between Operational Mission Failures.  Those are just a couple of the suitability issues, and alone don't determine what is best.  

In addition, CNA despite the fancy name are contractors.  If they weren't actually conducting the test, they should STFU.  However, that said, I'm not a fan of the way the Army is organized for T&E.

These are opinions,  I wasn't going to hold you to it.

What about that time when worn out equipment failed after 3 hours of mag dumps? Damn M4s